Emrakul, the Eons Torn, to me, would be a very reasonable ban ifthe decks that run it prove to be a problem and begin to stamp out other strategies out of the format. In such cases it is as much a matter of decks that run them as the creatures themselves. Take the Goroyo's Vengeance deck for example. If that deck was more consistent it would be much more reasonable to nerf it by banning the creatures (Griselbrand and/or Emrakul) then the "engine" of the deck itself. However, if it maintains it's glass cannon status Emrakul should be well and safe.
No I believe that Goryo's Vengeance would always be the correct ban if that deck got out of hand.
What decks would be ruined by the sudden appearance of aggro? The single control deck in the format? And I'm not sure how Bitterblossom stops Melira or Twin...
As I said it's very hard to predict without extensive testing.
One change in the ban list can change the whole meta, because one new deck can dramatically change another's win%, which in turn changes another deck(s)'s win%, and so on and so forth. That's why all the pros are saying this week that they can't test anything until the update is released.
Except I never said what I believe of it's lenght. Bocephus changing context to attack again?
There are a few different type cards on the list. Those on there for logistic reasons, there are those that speed up the fomat, and there are those that narrow the format, and then those that are just design mistakes.
So which do you propose we take off the ban list?
Designing with more in mind than limited and standard. Legacy and vintage exist, so did extended, both old and new.
Don't mistaken my words for "unban everything". And no, I don't wan't a broken and fast format. Funny how even then, so many cards could come off the list given their "speed" is on par with that of many legal cards and only suffer from a biased hatred of the card.
They tried that for many years. Matter of fact its only been like 2 or 3 years they stopped designing for older formats. Know what, the player base hated the design when they were trying to balance limited, Standard and the older formats.
If you are running a company do you put time and effort into the things that make you the most money or the fringe stuff? Liited and Standard are Wotc and Hasbros cash cows. Dont expect any change any time soon.
Skulclamp unbanned, it has a lot of potential to open up the format to many new and interesting decks, It would give aggro the push it needs to remain relevent in the format.
Skullclamp unbanned, it has a lot of potential to open up the format to many new and interesting decks, It would give aggro the push it needs to remain relevant in the format.
Skulclamp unbanned, it has a lot of potential to open up the format to many new and interesting decks, It would give aggro the push it needs to remain relevent in the format.
I hope this was sarcasm. You can't be serious, right?
I love the clamp myself, but it's far too broken for modern, even if every single other card on that list was allowed. It's only really fair in vintage, which has the appropriate level of cards to deal with it.
The one card on that list that I wouldn't mind seeing is bitterblossom unbanned. Frankly, even if it does push fae to a tier 1 status, RDW is still prevalent enough and powerful enough to run rampant around it, while the other decks can keep rdw in check. I'd be more than fine with that myself.
Karn doesnt actually win the game on T3... but if you do get him T3, your opponent is in serious trouble.
Karn just jumped very recently and I am positive people would be angry, but Tron would live on. There are many different flavors of it and quite a few are Karn-less.
Anyway, I doubt we will see our favorite robot get banned. Gr Ton doesnt dominate and that it isnt making up a huge % of the meta. I think it is fine right now.
was an example i didn't actually suggested its banning, wouldn't make any sense.
Skulclamp unbanned, it has a lot of potential to open up the format to many new and interesting decks, It would give aggro the push it needs to remain relevent in the format.
No, no it wouldn't. As someone who's first experience of MTG was Mirrodin era standard, Skullclamp needs to not only remain banned, but for WotC to hire Ninjas to physically destroy every single printed card.
No, no it wouldn't. As someone who's first experience of MTG was Mirrodin era standard, Skullclamp needs to not only remain banned, but for WotC to hire Ninjas to physically destroy every single printed card.
Hey, it's all fun and games until Kresh's merry band of tokens, easily killed sac fodder, and other assorted stuff that may or may not be brought back off of Volrath's Stronghold turn into card draw.
I have a super janky WB casual deck that I play with my friends. It has 2 skullclamps in there. The deck is pretty terrible....until I draw a clamp, at which point, if I untap with clamp, I basically can't lose the game. It taught my casual playgroup how strong card draw is, when my doomed traveller becomes a 3 mana concentrate lol. They now know to kill the clamp on sight. I never draw more than 4 cards with it anymore, usually, but even then it puts me way ahead.
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I hope all 11 people who suggested that SkullClamp be unbanned were trolling. But seriously, here at MTGS we disagree about alot of things, but Skullclamp being unbanned is not one of them.
There are also 31 people who thought that unbanning mental misstep is a good idea, maybe we could unban both MM and clamp, afterall MM counters clamp!
Surely Skullclamp is about 100x more bannable than MM. MM has never even seen any real testing or ever been legal in the modern format.
Skullclamp, IIRC, had a brief period where he was at least legal in extended and was proven to be way too powerful and format warping. MM was proven to be too warping in Legacy but Legacy quite a bit different meta than modern. Compare MM to when it was in standard and you'll see it was barely played.
Modern decks would have to adapt to having a higher curve and, IMO, only blue decks would run it. Non-blue decks would adapt instead by upping their curve rather than play 4 MM of their own. It would just be nice to have given MM a chance to prove that it would be broken rather than just assuming. I believe there would be about a 50/50 chance it would be too format warping.
Modern decks would have to adapt to having a higher curve and, IMO, only blue decks would run it.
Ehm no. Every single deck would run them. Free counter to protect my critters from a PtE/Lightning Bolt etc. etc.? Countering a MM that counters my burn/removal? Free counter to counter someone's spell snare? Sure. Decks that would not run it, would not be able to counter turn 0 counters. I'm not sure how this would be any different from Legacy to be honest. I'm more than glad that it was never and will never be legal in modern.
Ehm no. Every single deck would run them. Free counter to protect my critters from a PtE/Lightning Bolt etc. etc.? Countering a MM that counters my burn/removal? Free counter to counter someone's spell snare? Sure. Decks that would not run it, would not be able to counter turn 0 counters. I'm not sure how this would be any different from Legacy to be honest. I'm more than glad that it was never and will never be legal in modern.
Decks like Jund are already going down to 15 life often on turn 1. They don't have much room to pay 2-8 more life per game. Even in Legacy only blue decks ran 4 copies. non-blue decks usually ran 0-2 in the main and some times 2 in the side. If you look at this top 16, there are only 2 non-blue decks and one of them played 2 in the side and the other ran none. The problem with MM in Legacy is that blue is already too good as it is. Modern does not have the tools that blue has in Legacy like FoW, Brainstorm, and Daze.
I played modern before it was official a format (online) and trust me, eventhough the meta was slightly different, almost every deck ran MM 3 or 4 times even though it hurt like hell. It was needed because otherwise almost every game your turn one play would be countered. Very annoying. Not much fun to play in such an environment. Blue has always been one if not the best color in a lot of formats. Giving them another (insane) counterspell seems like a horrible idea. Plus, I'm pretty sure WotC does not want any free counterspells in Modern.
To run MM you will need to cut other spells from your deck - so your deck will become weaker... It's sideboard material.
Yes you have to change your deck a bit, but if you do not, you will die from opponent's MMs. So in a way it would be needed to make your deck 'better'. It's not THAT black and white, but it's certainly not a fun environment to play in.
Modern decks would have to adapt to having a higher curve and, IMO, only blue decks would run it. Non-blue decks would adapt instead by upping their curve rather than play 4 MM of their own. It would just be nice to have given MM a chance to prove that it would be broken rather than just assuming. I believe there would be about a 50/50 chance it would be too format warping.
It's not a 50/50 chance, it's a 100% chance, because what you described, with almost all decks having to adapt for it, IS warping the format. While a shift in the format can be positive, i'm pretty sure that the shift that MM would cause wouldn't be positve.
It's not a 50/50 chance, it's a 100% chance, because what you described, with almost all decks having to adapt for it, IS warping the format. While a shift in the format can be positive, i'm pretty sure that the shift that MM would cause wouldn't be positve.
Lightning bolt warps formats. It doesn't mean it's bannable.
Where do you base that on? It has always been legal in modern, so how and when did it warp the format exactly?
It makes x/3 or less creatures unplayable unless they are extremely efficient or win you the game.
Many decks also splash red just for Lightning Bolt like UWR and Jund.
It's just so efficient every deck has to keep it in mind when they are building a deck. It's by far the most played card in modern just because it's so efficient. If you're playing reds, odds are you're playing Bolt
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No I believe that Goryo's Vengeance would always be the correct ban if that deck got out of hand.
As I said it's very hard to predict without extensive testing.
One change in the ban list can change the whole meta, because one new deck can dramatically change another's win%, which in turn changes another deck(s)'s win%, and so on and so forth. That's why all the pros are saying this week that they can't test anything until the update is released.
There are a few different type cards on the list. Those on there for logistic reasons, there are those that speed up the fomat, and there are those that narrow the format, and then those that are just design mistakes.
So which do you propose we take off the ban list?
They tried that for many years. Matter of fact its only been like 2 or 3 years they stopped designing for older formats. Know what, the player base hated the design when they were trying to balance limited, Standard and the older formats.
If you are running a company do you put time and effort into the things that make you the most money or the fringe stuff? Liited and Standard are Wotc and Hasbros cash cows. Dont expect any change any time soon.
It would push affinity and elves over the top
Other aggros that are now tier 2 and see fringe play.
I hope this was sarcasm. You can't be serious, right?
The one card on that list that I wouldn't mind seeing is bitterblossom unbanned. Frankly, even if it does push fae to a tier 1 status, RDW is still prevalent enough and powerful enough to run rampant around it, while the other decks can keep rdw in check. I'd be more than fine with that myself.
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was an example i didn't actually suggested its banning, wouldn't make any sense.
A whole new format of X/1s or bust
will i be reimbursed the money?
Even in EDH? What's wrong with it there?
Hey, it's all fun and games until Kresh's merry band of tokens, easily killed sac fodder, and other assorted stuff that may or may not be brought back off of Volrath's Stronghold turn into card draw.
Thanks to Rivenor for the signature and XenoNinja for the Avi!
Quotes:
Surely Skullclamp is about 100x more bannable than MM. MM has never even seen any real testing or ever been legal in the modern format.
Skullclamp, IIRC, had a brief period where he was at least legal in extended and was proven to be way too powerful and format warping. MM was proven to be too warping in Legacy but Legacy quite a bit different meta than modern. Compare MM to when it was in standard and you'll see it was barely played.
Modern decks would have to adapt to having a higher curve and, IMO, only blue decks would run it. Non-blue decks would adapt instead by upping their curve rather than play 4 MM of their own. It would just be nice to have given MM a chance to prove that it would be broken rather than just assuming. I believe there would be about a 50/50 chance it would be too format warping.
Current decks of choice:
Vintage: Shops.
Legacy: Lands.
Modern: Lantern.
Ehm no. Every single deck would run them. Free counter to protect my critters from a PtE/Lightning Bolt etc. etc.? Countering a MM that counters my burn/removal? Free counter to counter someone's spell snare? Sure. Decks that would not run it, would not be able to counter turn 0 counters. I'm not sure how this would be any different from Legacy to be honest. I'm more than glad that it was never and will never be legal in modern.
Decks like Jund are already going down to 15 life often on turn 1. They don't have much room to pay 2-8 more life per game. Even in Legacy only blue decks ran 4 copies. non-blue decks usually ran 0-2 in the main and some times 2 in the side. If you look at this top 16, there are only 2 non-blue decks and one of them played 2 in the side and the other ran none. The problem with MM in Legacy is that blue is already too good as it is. Modern does not have the tools that blue has in Legacy like FoW, Brainstorm, and Daze.
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Yes you have to change your deck a bit, but if you do not, you will die from opponent's MMs. So in a way it would be needed to make your deck 'better'. It's not THAT black and white, but it's certainly not a fun environment to play in.
Or, wait...
Lightning bolt warps formats. It doesn't mean it's bannable.
It makes x/3 or less creatures unplayable unless they are extremely efficient or win you the game.
Many decks also splash red just for Lightning Bolt like UWR and Jund.
It's just so efficient every deck has to keep it in mind when they are building a deck. It's by far the most played card in modern just because it's so efficient. If you're playing reds, odds are you're playing Bolt