I apologize for the confusion. It's my fault for not reading your follow-up posts carefully before I posted. As you can see, it's a common problem in RLA
In my opinion, she's the one cutting off communication. I told her that I don't like being the only one trying in the relationship. I begged her to start calling me first or for her to text me first. She hasn't.
This is a legitimate concern. I want you to understand that before we get to the next part. I feel that way about my wife sometimes, too.
That said, do not bring it up when you're fighting about something else. When you fight with your SO, keep it specifically on topic of the particular issue. You've said you're hurt because you feel she lied to you, but you've now thrown in a complicating factor that goes to the basis of your relationship. What was 'You hurt my feelings' has become 'You hurt my feelings and I feel like you don't try hard enough'. And by not calling her, you've said 'You hurt my feelings, I feel like you don't try hard enough, your move'. You can resolve one or another of those things, but not all at the same time. The first part is the easiest to fix, with this specific instance, through an open conversation about why it happened. The second part has most likely caused her to dig in her heels, and can be fixed once you're past the immediate issue. The third can be fixed simply by being the bigger person and calling her.
Remember that your relationship is a partnership. Your SO isn't going to be perfect and you're going to feel like you're giving more than your fair share. But here is the secret: she's going to feel the exact same way. Two people, no matter how in love, cannot coexist in close proximity without some conflict. Learning to manage that conflict is the most important part of a relationship. Many people simply try to ignore it, but I don't recommend it, as it typically leads to long-term resentment. Some people have it out in explosive outbursts. Also not recommended. What I try to do is simply tell her, in a calm tone, how I was hurt and why. If you're with a reasonable person, she'll feel bad simply for your feelings being hurt, whether or not she was really at fault, and you'll feel better simply for having it out there.
Seems like this has turned in to a game of semantics. While people may not have worded their responses EXACTLY like you wanted them too, what you were looking for which Jay just provided was a pretty logical deduction that should have been easily extracted from everyone's responses.
I apologize for the confusion. It's my fault for not reading your follow-up posts carefully before I posted. As you can see, it's a common problem in RLA
This is a legitimate concern. I want you to understand that before we get to the next part. I feel that way about my wife sometimes, too.
That said, do not bring it up when you're fighting about something else. When you fight with you're SO, keep it specifically on topic of the particular issue. You've said you're hurt because you feel she lied to you, but you've now thrown in a complicating factor that goes to the basis of your relationship. What was 'You hurt my feelings' has become 'You hurt my feelings and I feel like you don't try hard enough'. And by not calling her, you've said 'You hurt my feelings, I feel like you don't try hard enough, your move'. You can resolve one or another of those things, but not all at the same time. The first part is the easiest to fix, with this specific instance, through an open conversation about why it happened. The second part has most likely caused her to dig in her heels, and can be fixed once you're past the immediate issue. The third can be fixed simply by being the bigger person and calling her.
Remember that your relationship is a partnership. Your SO isn't going to be perfect and you're going to feel like you're giving more than your fair share. But here is the secret: she's going to feel the exact same way. Two people, no matter how in love, cannot coexist in close proximity without some conflict. Learning to manage that conflict is the most important part of a relationship. Many people simply try to ignore it, but I don't recommend it, as it typically leads to long-term resentment. Some people have it out in explosive outbursts. Also not recommended. What I try to do is simply tell her, in a calm tone, how I was hurt and why. If you're with a reasonable person, she'll feel bad simply for your feelings being hurt, whether or not she was really at fault, and you'll feel better simply for having it out there.
It's not about something else; it is on topic.
She hurt my feelings because she isn't trying hard enough.
One way she isn't trying is that she didn't bring up the vacation plans during the interview. Another way she isn't trying is that she won't reach out and be the first to contact me.
"I need you to fight for me and act like you care, because right now I feel like you don't care. I'm sick of being the only one trying to make this relationship work."
Seems like this has turned in to a game of semantics. While people may not have worded their responses EXACTLY like you wanted them too, what you were looking for which Jay just provided was a pretty logical deduction that should have been easily extracted from everyone's responses.
Absolutely false.
The issue at hand is her dishonesty and lack of trustworthiness.
People are blaming me because I won't let her have a job. Please, this is not a rhetorical question. Please answer this question: how else am I supposed to respond to those claims when I've stated time and time again that I absolutely want her to work and that I'm happy for her that she's got a job?
You have to make your own life before you try to make a life with someone else.
Absolutely no one is arguing this point. In fact, I've been repeating this point like a broken record.
So it's pretty unnecessary that you chime in with this and blame me for it; the reason I'm ignoring your words is because they're not on point.
My point is that she was dishonest about it. She should've told me, "Actually this job is really important to me so if it gets in the way of our plans, then I'm sorry." At this point, I would've told her I understand, wish her luck on the interview, and promise to make things work around her job.
Instead she promised me there would be no interference. Her false promises are what upset me.
TL;DR- (Since it's obvious you don't read.) Don't address her taking the job. Once you start addressing her lying to me, I'm all ears.
The issue at hand is her dishonesty and lack of trustworthiness.
i really dont find either to be the case here. Good luck.
1) you edited as i posted
2) i addressed the promise issue previously saying sometimes theyre made with good intentions but life gets in the way. IMO this is one of those cases. I dont see where she maliciously deceived you.
Please answer this question: how else am I supposed to respond to those claims when I've stated time and time again that I absolutely want her to work and that I'm happy for her that she's got a job?
I'm really at a loss for trying to figure out what you want from me. Please answer the question so that I can figure out where you're coming from.
2) i addressed the promise issue previously saying sometimes theyre made with good intentions but life gets in the way. IMO this is one of those cases. I dont see where she maliciously deceived you.
The malicious deception comes from the fact that she promised me the night before the interview that she would mention the vacation plans during the interview in the hopes that she could schedule her starting date around it.
She should've told me, "I really want this job and I'm afraid that if I bring up the vacation, I'll move down the list," instead of promising me she'll say something and then refusing to.
I'm really at a loss for trying to figure out what you want from me. Please answer the question so that I can figure out where you're coming from.
Its a matter of seemingly saying one thing but acting another. Youre happy for her but your not being very supportive or understanding. If your truly as happy for her as you claim then it should be a non issue. Its a roadblock yes, but one that can be worked around. Make the effort to work around it. If that means its gotta be on your dime, then it has to be on your dime. Dont attempt to make her feel guilty. I think youve turned a mole hill in to a mountain here.
If i "promise" to take my daughter to the movies Saturday, but for one reason or another end up having to work does that make me a liar and untrustworthy?
The malicious deception comes from the fact that she promised me the night before the interview that she would mention the vacation plans during the interview in the hopes that she could schedule her starting date around it.
She should've told me, "I really want this job and I'm afraid that if I bring up the vacation, I'll move down the list," instead of promising me she'll say something and then refusing to.
Want the short answer? WHO CARES. Its not as big a deal as youre making it out to be.
She should've told me, "I really want this job and I'm afraid that if I bring up the vacation, I'll move down the list," instead of promising me she'll say something [about the vacation plans during the interview] and then refusing to.
Have you thought of actually calling her, apologizing for your previous behavior and trying to discuss the situation? I'm sure all of your questions could easily be answered by her. And you are wrong, you're the only one who feels that way. This has gone on for 3 pages and you've gotten some really good advice from Jay13 and others but you've done nothing to resolve your issue. Seriously, call her, don't be rude, and you will be much happier than posting here and not getting the replies you desire.
Job interviews are often high pressure situations. Some more than others and for some more than others. This was her first, yes? Can you imagine how nervous she must have been? Im sure she had every intention of saying something but blanked because of the pressure she probably felt. Hell, ive seen people stammer through how old they are in interviews before due to just that
Have you thought of actually calling her, apologizing for your previous behavior and trying to discuss the situation? I'm sure all of your questions could easily be answered by her. And you are wrong, you're the only one who feels that way. This has gone on for 3 pages and you've gotten some really good advice from Jay13 and others but you've done nothing to resolve your issue. Seriously, call her, don't be rude, and you will be much happier than posting here and not getting the replies you desire.
The majority of the three pages were pretty much useless, so let's not blow this out of proportion here.
Still, the responses I got from Jay13 and ColdStorage have been helpful and legitimate and they're telling me I'm wrong. I understand that I have to put aside my biased opinions and trust the opinions of those who have an objective view on this.
Honestly, I think you're being a bit clingy and that you overreacted when she didn't mention the time off at the interview. It's perfectly understandable that you got upset, but to do the whole "oh well I'm not gonna contact you first now" thing was rather immature. Instead, you should support the fact that she has a job now - she's excited about that, right? I'd be upset if she broke that promise to me, too, but I wouldn't have handled it the way you did. She probably feels the same way I do about it.
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as a woman, i feel like you are coming off a bit too needy and overbearing, and she probably is having second thoughts about the whole thing.
as someone who has been in interviews where i needed time before i could start... sometimes i have asked and been declined or else the job is gone, other times i never got a chance to ask because they made it abundantly clear themselves that it was this day or no day
Hello, rather than assume that I know what is going on it may be benefical to ask some questions. These questions are rather rudimentary; still, I hope that you take them seriously.
First, "Does she know -explicitly- why you are mad about this situation?". In other words, Have you explained to her in clear terms as why you feel so strongly about her lying?". If it is the case that she knows then "Does she feel the same way?" ?
"Do you know why you are mad about this situation?"
I want to expand on this question some. From what I have gathered from your post is that you are mad becasue she lied to you about her promise "That she would go with you to where you currently reside (I presume) on January 16th." It may (or may not) be useful to ask "What reason am I mad about this?" I assume, that you would not get mad if she went to get pepperoni pizza only to come home with cheese pizza. Obviously, the former needs more thought than the latter.
I know that it is the case that you feel as though you are the only one in the relationship that is trying. "Can you provide further details on this?"
It does seem like a game of twenty-one questions, but if you answer them it may provide some insight to us both.
I do appreciate that you're the first legitimate response that I've gotten. I don't necessarily agree with what you said: I feel like there are plenty of relationships where each person still looks out for themselves. (For example, I just saw an episode of Penn & Teller: Bullshhh where an engaged couple went to get a polygraph to make sure they had been faithful to each other.)
Wasn't the whole point of that episode that polygraphs were Bullshhh and just 'stress detectors', and the couple broke up for no good reason, just because the woman trusted the polygraph and not the guy? (It's been a while since I've seen it, but this is what I recall) If a couple can break up over such a misunderstanding, it hardly seems like a healthy relationship model to follow in the footsteps of.
In either case though, if you're looking for a relationship that doesn't require trust ... well, okay, that's your prerogative - but are you sure that's what she's wanting/expecting as well?
Look, if your ideal relationship involves two people who are just looking out for themselves and don't necessarily trust each other, and you find someone who thinks the same way you do, then everything is cool - but I would wager that that's not what most girls in your, let's call it a 'dating pool', are looking for. You started this thread by making the claim that you're "not really good with girls" (your words), and I think there's a possibility that the reason for that is you don't see things from their point of view. You seem to be treating this girl like she was just some buddy who bailed on you for work when you really wanted to hang out.
By everything you've said, it's not like she just blew you off, she failed to meet her commitment to you (it's not very reasonable to insist or expect that she make herself less available in a high-pressure, potentially competitive job-interview) - this is very different than blowing you off.
if I was this girl, I would be slightly hurt by the way you've acted, and perhaps a little angry. By the way you've framed this narrative, as soon as I informed you that I failed in what I said I'd do, your reaction was not to be there for me and comfort me through a stressful situation, but to be offended, get mad, and make it even worse. Did it ever occur to you that I was trying to downplay the situation because I was worried that you'd react exactly like this? It's not like I'm pleased with the way things turned out. If I was the one trying to start a relationship with you here, I'd be wondering why you didn't trust me and assume that I did everything I could, why you didn't immediately show sympathy with me for circumstances that I already felt kind of bad about, but instead, of all things, chose to punish me. How is that love? You're intentionally putting pressure on me to try to get me to act in the way you want like ... like I'm some sort of dog you're trying to train.
Okay, maybe I failed and I should feel a little bad about that, but don't you think I care enough about you to cover the guilt part by myself? If you don't think I care enough about you to have done my best here, and you don't care enough about me to focus on my feelings more than your own stupid pride, why are we even trying to have a relationship here? You intentionally put our whole relationship into question just because I failed to hang out with you in the Chicago suburbs for a few days; it's almost like you're trying to find an excuse not to be with me. Lord only knows what I should think when some internet neckbeard directs me over to this site for me to discover that you've been going onto the internet and talking to a bunch of geeks you don't even know about whether or not I 'deserve your forgiveness'.
I'm sorry to be so harsh, and I don't want this to sound too melodramatic, but Screw you Eddie. If you think so little of me that you have to poll anonymous internet denizens as to whether or not you should waste your precious time with me, then you don't think much of me, do you?
Anyways, that's just what I imagine I would think if I were her. I'm curious - what do you imagine is going through her head right now about you? Do you think she did this because she doesn't care about you? I'm also curious to how you think she would react if she read this thread and was allowed to post in it.
Honestly, I think you're being a bit clingy and that you overreacted when she didn't mention the time off at the interview. It's perfectly understandable that you got upset, but to do the whole "oh well I'm not gonna contact you first now" thing was rather immature. Instead, you should support the fact that she has a job now - she's excited about that, right? I'd be upset if she broke that promise to me, too, but I wouldn't have handled it the way you did. She probably feels the same way I do about it.
So noted. Again, I don't believe that I've overreacted but since the overwhelming majority of responses are echoing your same sentiment, it seems as though I'm in the wrong and I just don't know it.
I'll have to take it on faith that the masses know more about this than I do.
as someone who has been in interviews where i needed time before i could start... sometimes i have asked and been declined or else the job is gone, other times i never got a chance to ask because they made it abundantly clear themselves that it was this day or no day
It's that she made no effort when she promised me that she would.
It's one thing if she brought it up and the job asked her to start immediately anyway. As I've said on at least two other occasions prior to this response, do not make the promise to try if you have no intention of trying.
Don't want to try? Fine, tell me that you don't rather than make a false promise.
Tried and failed? I understand too, I'm not going to make you choose between the job or me.
Hello, rather than assume that I know what is going on it may be benefical to ask some questions. These questions are rather rudimentary; still, I hope that you take them seriously.
First, "Does she know -explicitly- why you are mad about this situation?". In other words, Have you explained to her in clear terms as why you feel so strongly about her lying?". If it is the case that she knows then "Does she feel the same way?" ?
Yes, she knows that it's because she promised to try to start work after the vacation but then made no effort when it came time for the interview.
"Do you know why you are mad about this situation?"
I want to expand on this question some. From what I have gathered from your post is that you are mad becasue she lied to you about her promise "That she would go with you to where you currently reside (I presume) on January 16th." It may (or may not) be useful to ask "What reason am I mad about this?" I assume, that you would not get mad if she went to get pepperoni pizza only to come home with cheese pizza. Obviously, the former needs more thought than the latter.
I know that it is the case that you feel as though you are the only one in the relationship that is trying. "Can you provide further details on this?"
It does seem like a game of twenty-one questions, but if you answer them it may provide some insight to us both.
It's about the fact her word can't be trusted and that her promises mean nothing to me now.
The fact that she's just a college student working her first job and I'm out of school and doing quite well in terms of a financial standpoint, I'm the one that's paying for everything. I never once complained about paying; as far as I'm concerned, that's the only way this can work.
But how can I trust her to actually get on that plane when I buy her the plane ticket if her whim changes quicker than the wind?
Wasn't the whole point of that episode that polygraphs were Bullshhh and just 'stress detectors', and the couple broke up for no good reason, just because the woman trusted the polygraph and not the guy? (It's been a while since I've seen it, but this is what I recall) If a couple can break up over such a misunderstanding, it hardly seems like a healthy relationship model to follow in the footsteps of.
In either case though, if you're looking for a relationship that doesn't require trust ... well, okay, that's your prerogative - but are you sure that's what she's wanting/expecting as well?
Look, if your ideal relationship involves two people who are just looking out for themselves and don't necessarily trust each other, and you find someone who thinks the same way you do, then everything is cool - but I would wager that that's not what most girls in your, let's call it a 'dating pool', are looking for. You started this thread by making the claim that you're "not really good with girls" (your words), and I think there's a possibility that the reason for that is you don't see things from their point of view. You seem to be treating this girl like she was just some buddy who bailed on you for work when you really wanted to hang out.
I'm really running out of different ways to put this: it's not because she bailed on me for work.
By everything you've said, it's not like she just blew you off, she failed to meet her commitment to you (it's not very reasonable to insist or expect that she make herself less available in a high-pressure, potentially competitive job-interview) - this is very different than blowing you off.
She knew going into the interview that they were desperate for people and that she was going to get the job no matter what. But I don't even like bringing up that point because I feel like it's largely irrelevant to the issue anyway.
Also, as I pointed out, having plans for next weekend is not that unreasonable; it's called having a life. It's not six months down the line, it's right around the corner.
I've asked this question about four or five times now and still no one has bothered to provide a response to this question. Maybe if I make it really big and bold, someone will actually read something I'm typing for once and give me an answer to the question.
If you are an interviewer, do you really expect all your interviewees to not have lives? Is it that unreasonable, interviewee or not, that a person has plans for next weekend?
I'd be wondering why you didn't trust me and assume that I did everything I could .... Okay, maybe I failed and I should feel a little bad about that, but don't you think I care enough about you to cover the guilt part by myself?
You keep missing the point, again and again and again and again. And again. And again. And again.
She didn't do everything she could. I'm repeating for the fourth (fifth?) time in this reply alone (and probably about the tenth time overall in this thread) that she swore to make an effort to maintain our vacation plans despite the interview and then refused to make such effort she promised; she opened her mouth and talked but it was never about vacation plans.
Once again now for those who have a short term memory: it's not that she tried and failed; it's that she didn't care enough to honor her promise to try.
And once again, it bears repeating that I merely asked her to try and she agreed. If she had no intentions of trying, the moral thing to do is to say that she has no intention of trying. No broken promises, no butthurt.
I'm sorry to be so harsh, and I don't want this to sound too melodramatic, but Screw you Eddie. If you think so little of me that you have to poll anonymous internet denizens as to whether or not you should waste your precious time with me, then you don't think much of me, do you?
That's certainly not my intent here. I basically have no friends, so the MTGS community is somewhere I thought I could turn since they are my friends (until I now realized no one knows how to read).
I'm allowed to discuss my times of hardship with others to get advice and solace.
I've been following this thread and I just want to pose some neutral questions to the TC to clear up some ambiguities:
1. When you refer to the "promise" that was broken, are you referring to the generic promise to "try to make this long distance thing work", or did she make a specific promise to mention the start time during the interview? Did she use the word "promise"?
2. How much time would she need to take off in order to see you? Could she just take a friday off and come down for the weekend or is the ticket expensive enough that it needs to be longer?
3. Did she ever give a reason for not mentioning it in the interview? Did you ask?
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If you are an interviewer, do you really expect all your interviewees to not have lives? Is it that unreasonable, interviewee or not, that a person has plans for next weekend?
Okay, I'll bite. You seem really focused on this, so the answer to both questions is no. However, another pertinent question here is: If an interviewer has two applicants, one who can start next week and one who can start in two weeks, all other factors equal, who are they going to choose? You seem to be really focused on her being in the wrong and you being in the right. But frankly, that's not really the most important thing right now. The important thing is, what are you going to do about it? Have you talked to her since three days ago when you originally posted this? Do you want to talk to her? If you do, man up, swallow your pride, and call her. If not, it's over and done with, so stop arguing with folks on Salvation and move on with your life. If you can't get over the fact that she did not keep her promise to you, the latter is the best course of action. Because yes, you can expect that there will be times in the future she will say she is going to do something and doesn't follow through. That doesn't make her a bad person. It just means that **** happens, and maybe she intented to do it but chickened out, or maybe she just wanted to tell you what you wanted to hear so you wouldn't get mad. And to be honest, if you want someone who treats everything they say to you as a legally binding contract, you're going to be looking for "that special someone" for a long, long time.
It's that she made no effort when she promised me that she would.
This seems like more of an impression than something she's stated herself. Interviews are high pressure situations, and she could have easily gone in wanting to say something and found herself not able to.
If you are an interviewer, do you really expect all your interviewees to not have lives? Is it that unreasonable, interviewee or not, that a person has plans for next weekend?
If I'm an interviewer for an unskilled labor job, I really don't care why you want what you want.
Yes, I feel free to not hire you simply because you are both less available, and, more importantly, seem less concerned with doing whatever it takes to get this job - which makes me think you don't want it as much and will be less motivated to do quality work within it.
Is it "fair to you"? Who cares, your the one who came here to want to enter into an arrangement with me and the company. I don't owe you a job, no one does, I'm simply here to select the person who will be the most reliable. If there's any equivalent applicants who seem to be making themselves more available, well guess who I hire. This is a job any idiot can do, but only the motivated will bother to do well, and I'm suppose to choose the applicant who doesn't bother to make herself available during the very first week of the job?
Look, maybe I'll hire you anyways if there's already some positive things going for you that aren't in my other current applicants, but yes, advertising to me how you can make yourself unavailable goes in the 'con' list. If everything else was equal, I'd rather take someone with less signs of a "life" that they leave town for. You start showing signs of unavailability here at your peril.
In the end though, I don't think whether or not you've been reasonable really matters to your primary problem. As you've said yourself, you don't trust a word she says. Maybe, that's because she didn't really try at all. Maybe, that's because your an over-reactive and untrusting jerk. Without having been present, it's really hard to say which of these things it is for sure, but no matter which one it is ... how exactly would you foresee a relationship with her going? You forcing her to take fidelity polygraph tests, rooting through her stuff, reacting with untrustworthy jealousy whenever she's being friendly with strange men ... I mean, do you really think this is a life with you she'd sign up for?
Look, whoever you want to say is at fault here, the one thing that basically every responder I've read here has agreed on is that you're treating her badly. At this point, it doesn't matter whose to blame. You're in the same situation either way.
You keep missing the point, again and again and again and again. And again. And again. And again.
She didn't do everything she could.
Again, if everyone 'misses a point', re-evaluate the context yourself.
The reason we've been missing this point is it hasn't been established, you've just been claiming it. Nothing you've said tells us she hasn't tried, only that she didn't say the words to the interviewer, which are very different things.
The reason, I would posit, that you keep feeling you have to repeat this, and that it seems like people aren't hearing you, is that, despite, yes, having read those words, people are allowing here for something very specific here that happens all the time;
Unreliable Narrator.
If it feels like everytime you say that it isn't getting through, it's because it isn't. It's being consciously filtered out.
You make all these claims that what she did was out of such indifference, and, honestly, it doesn't seem to hold up with the rest of the narrative. Nothing you say she did necessarily speaks of indifference. Now maybe its true and it wasn't just a failure to speak and really was because she didn't care about all those plans she made with you, but what seems more likely is that this is your ego's version of the story - it's how you see it after being emotionally hurt and focusing on whether or not you were treated fairly.
1) She really doesn't care about honoring her word with you, due to a lack of respect.
2) She does care about honoring her word with you, failed to do so in a high-stress situation, and you get all outraged and start distancing yourself from her, adding to the stress and showing a large lack of empathy. Add to this that you are unlikely to change.
NEITHER of these possibilities leads to a very good outlook for this relationship. Don't bother to defend your version of events regarding whether its situation 1 or 2, because that's not the important distinction, simply say if you can find a 3rd possibility here.
This is the only part of this post whose response I'd be interested to hear - can you think of a 3rd possibility? Because if you can't, in both of the above cases, you should call her to apologize (just to be nice), and end it, because either she isn't mature enough for an adult relationship let alone a long distance one, or you aren't.
Well, you accused us from talking about apples while you were talking oranges, but it was you who misread a load of posts.
No one suggested the issue is that you don't want her to work. Like 0% users suggested that or discussed that in any way.
The issue at hand here is how much weight you put in the action of taking a promise. For every promise theres a vast number of circumstances by which breaking the promise is the morally correct thing to do.
With that said, I honestly don't think she would risk anything by merely asking when she would have to start and if this date could be delayed - but that's because I've participated a half a dozen interviews and I'm used to work environments, selections and such. I could see how a first timer would totally freak out and fail to speak out something, even if it's important.
If you want to be mad at her because she fail to keep her promise or because she didn't weighted that promise as much as you did, that's your choice. I feel like promises for you means a lot more then it actually mean for most people. Promises means "i will try a more then i normally would", not "I will definitely do it no matter what". You comparing breaking a promise to be unfaithful is a sign of your peculiar view on what a promise actually means in a daily life.
If I'm an interviewer for an unskilled labor job, I really don't care why you want what you want.
Yes, I feel free to not hire you simply because you are both less available, and, more importantly, seem less concerned with doing whatever it takes to get this job - which makes me think you don't want it as much and will be less motivated to do quality work within it.
Is it "fair to you"? Who cares, your the one who came here to want to enter into an arrangement with me and the company. I don't owe you a job, no one does, I'm simply here to select the person who will be the most reliable. If there's any equivalent applicants who seem to be making themselves more available, well guess who I hire. This is a job any idiot can do, but only the motivated will bother to do well, and I'm suppose to choose the applicant who doesn't bother to make herself available during the very first week of the job.
This. This is what you're missing OP.
You have stated many times that her choosing the job over you is NOT the reason you're mad. You're mad because she promised to request a later start date. However, we can see from her actions that during the interview she concluded that merely asking could be threatening to her chances of getting the job. Given this, you being upset at her breaking this promise is equivalent to you being upset this she didn't put her job in jeopardy for you. Even if you genuinely didn't want her to turn down the job for you (and I believe this is the case), your actions suggest otherwise once she's realized that making the request you wanted could be risky.
Should she have not made this promise in the first place? Perhaps, but at the time she made it, she likely thought it would be no big deal to make the request, so she made the promise to make you happy. During the interview she got new information and was immediately forced to choose between keeping her promise and hopefully getting the job. She chose the job assuming that you would understand this.
So I think the misunderstanding is within your question of "do interviewers really expect interviewees to not have a life?" The answer, as least for unskilled laborers, is, "they don't care. They just need bodies when they need them. And those bodies are a dime a dozen."
You need to understand that breaking a promise does not inherently mean someone is not trustworthy. Someone is untrustworthy when their intent is to deceive.
I think I'm done posting in this thread, because if I type anymore on this subject it makes me sound angry, and I'm worried that would make anything I said less ... considered.
I just wanted to wish the OP the best of luck with the whole situation, regardless.
I'm just wondering, have you two spoken in the last 3 days? Now would be the time to call her I guess, it's been a while... Just, try to remain neutral. No attacking, no defending, just talk. That, imo, is the best course of action right now.
Actually, I did call her and I'll address that issue at the end of this long post. I just want to wrap things up before I have this thread locked.
I've been following this thread and I just want to pose some neutral questions to the TC to clear up some ambiguities:
1. When you refer to the "promise" that was broken, are you referring to the generic promise to "try to make this long distance thing work", or did she make a specific promise to mention the start time during the interview? Did she use the word "promise"?
2. How much time would she need to take off in order to see you? Could she just take a friday off and come down for the weekend or is the ticket expensive enough that it needs to be longer?
3. Did she ever give a reason for not mentioning it in the interview? Did you ask?
1. Am I upset that she won't see me on the 16th (today)? Yes. But will I get over that? Of course, I want her to work and if her job says that she has to stay then I'm not going to make her quit her job over me. What I'm upset about is the phone conversation on the night before the interview last week, where she agreed to make a mention of her vacation plans during the interview and didn't. If she didn't want to make a mention of it, she could've just told me "I really want this job and I feel like this would hurt my chances," and I would've understood. As far as whether the word "promise" was actually used, I genuinely do not remember. But I don't think that semantics of word choices are necessary; if she told me she'd do something, she should do it.
2. Her job has her working on the weekends. She goes to school on the weekdays, except Fridays. I was hoping that she could just put these vacation plans on the table during the interview process so that she can still take her trip. Money is a non-issue.
And how do you know she didn't try? Did she actually say she didn't try, or just that she didn't stir up the courage to tell the interviewer?
That's the same thing, isn't it?
She said there was no good time to mention it, even though they discussion starting date and days of availability. Did she get nervous about it? Possibly. But even if she did get nervous about it, that's still not trying.
Yes, I feel free to not hire you simply because you are both less available, and, more importantly, seem less concerned with doing whatever it takes to get this job - which makes me think you don't want it as much and will be less motivated to do quality work within it.
That's the jump I don't follow.
Having plans for next weekend is having a life. It's perfectly natural for any human being to have plans for next weekend. That just shows this person is a normal human being, not unmotivated.
It's possible to explain that you honor your promises in the order that you made them. This vacation was before the job, so it comes from. Now that she knows about the job, the job comes first from here on out.
Isn't she your friend? Someone you can talk to about your relationship problems?
The reason I'm seeking out help here is to get some outside help from an unbiased party. Of course she's going to tell me that I'm wrong because that's what she thinks; that's what a fight is.
She thinks I overreacted, I don't think that I did. I already know her side of the story.
Now, if more people (e.g., neutral parties here) tell me that I'm wrong then I'm more inclined to believe that I should put my biased opinion aside and trust that the masses are right. And yes, it basically has come to that point and so I called her. More on that at the very end of this post.
1) She really doesn't care about honoring her word with you, due to a lack of respect.
2) She does care about honoring her word with you, failed to do so in a high-stress situation, and you get all outraged and start distancing yourself from her, adding to the stress and showing a large lack of empathy. Add to this that you are unlikely to change.
[B]NEITHER[/B] of these possibilities leads to a very good outlook for this relationship. Don't bother to defend your version of events regarding whether its situation 1 or 2, because that's not the important distinction, simply say if you can find a 3rd possibility here.
[B]This is the only part of this post whose response I'd be interested to hear - can you think of a 3rd possibility?
To me, 1 & 2 are the same. If it's that physically inconvenient to say one or two sentences so that she could spend some more time with me, I'd call that being pretty indifferent. Again, I'll give a recap of what has happened in the last 24 hours at the end of this post. I just don't want to have to type the same thing to each reply.
Well, you accused us from talking about apples while you were talking oranges, but it was you who misread a load of posts.
You on page 1. Talking about putting finance/profession over fun. And about how I undervalued her necessity to get a job.
ThaDeceptikon on page 1. "You have to make your own life before you try to make a life with someone else. Sorry Chief, but she made the right call."
Rxavage on page 1 said that I expected "her to put her whole life on hold according to your whim."
ThaDeceptikon, again in a different post on page 1 said, "I dont think she should have to make that choice."
You on page 2. "You seriously want her to loose [sic] a job opportunity just because you don't want your expectations frustrated ?"
OotTheMonk on page 2. "So maybe I missed this in the two pages, but why couldn't you go visit her?"
If she didn't want to mention in at the interview, she should've just said so while on the phone with me the night before, instead of making false promises.
All the examples above are situations where the focus was put on something else, like her actually having a job or me visiting her instead.
I'm frustrated that she promised to say something about the vacation plans during the interview, if she wasn't going to.
I would've been okay with her outright canceling the vacation then and there. I'm okay with her mentioning it to the job and the job refusing to allow it.
[B]Once again now: I'm not okay with promising one thing and doing another.[/B]
You're mad because she promised to request a later start date. However, we can see from her actions that during the interview she concluded that merely asking could be threatening to her chances of getting the job. Given this, you being upset at her breaking this promise is equivalent to you being upset this she didn't put her job in jeopardy for you.
That's not what she told me. She could've told me on the phone, "They were really wanting me to start right away so I figured that if I brought this up then they might pass on me."
Instead, she told me that she never had a chance to bring it up. Even though she managed to schedule her work around her school.
(Now some idiot is going to misinterpret that last sentence and be all, "well of course school is more important to her too!" That's not my point. She told me she didn't have a chance, but her chance was to mention it at the same time as she mentioned school. I never wanted her to not work and I never wanted her to not go to school.)
Someone is untrustworthy when their intent is to deceive.
My main issue is that am I ever going to see her again? Perhaps it's not an untrustworthiness based on her morals as a person. But how can I confidently shell out hundreds of dollars for a plane ticket for her if I know there's a possibility that she won't get on the plane because she just doesn't feel like it.
The same way she didn't feel like mentioning the vacation plans during the interview.
Anyway, an update on the situation is that I have since called her and we talked it out and we're going to make an effort to forget everything that happened in the past week.
Some of you might say that this is only a temporary solution to the problem if I don't change my attitude. This is a point that I now understand after reading the replies you guys have given me, so I appreciate that.
The trouble is that I'm stubborn. Very stubborn. But hopefully, I'll be able to keep my anger issues in check. Wish me luck?
Anyway, interview happens. She tells me that she got the job, but didn't bother to mention our plans for January 16. She tells me that the job has her working a lot until May and then she asks me to wait until May to see her again.
So I get upset and I tell her that I feel like she's not really trying to make this relationship work. Even before we met (before New Year's), I was always the one to call her first or text her first. (It's a girl thing to not text first, I get it.)
You must appreciate how selfish that bolded part comes off. She really has no obligation to make the relationship work, even if she initially wanted to.
And where is this idea of always texting the girl first coming from? That's needy and awful. It's not a 'girl thing' to text first. It's an eager thing. And doing it so much you were coming off too eager.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
And how do you know she didn't try? Did she actually say she didn't try, or just that she didn't stir up the courage to tell the interviewer?
That's the same thing, isn't it?
She said there was no good time to mention it, even though they discussion starting date and days of availability. Did she get nervous about it? Possibly. But even if she did get nervous about it, that's still not trying.
The result is the same, indeed. But the intent does matter- with intent, in a less stressful situation, she may have succeeded. Without intent, she would fail regardless of the situation. I think as this relationship continues you'll be able to determine her intentions more clearly. Just remember, people make mistakes and sometimes they fail to meet your expectations. Part of being in love is having the grace to forgive them when this happens.
I'm glad you two are still in contact and I hope you can make things work in the future.
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This is a legitimate concern. I want you to understand that before we get to the next part. I feel that way about my wife sometimes, too.
That said, do not bring it up when you're fighting about something else. When you fight with your SO, keep it specifically on topic of the particular issue. You've said you're hurt because you feel she lied to you, but you've now thrown in a complicating factor that goes to the basis of your relationship. What was 'You hurt my feelings' has become 'You hurt my feelings and I feel like you don't try hard enough'. And by not calling her, you've said 'You hurt my feelings, I feel like you don't try hard enough, your move'. You can resolve one or another of those things, but not all at the same time. The first part is the easiest to fix, with this specific instance, through an open conversation about why it happened. The second part has most likely caused her to dig in her heels, and can be fixed once you're past the immediate issue. The third can be fixed simply by being the bigger person and calling her.
Remember that your relationship is a partnership. Your SO isn't going to be perfect and you're going to feel like you're giving more than your fair share. But here is the secret: she's going to feel the exact same way. Two people, no matter how in love, cannot coexist in close proximity without some conflict. Learning to manage that conflict is the most important part of a relationship. Many people simply try to ignore it, but I don't recommend it, as it typically leads to long-term resentment. Some people have it out in explosive outbursts. Also not recommended. What I try to do is simply tell her, in a calm tone, how I was hurt and why. If you're with a reasonable person, she'll feel bad simply for your feelings being hurt, whether or not she was really at fault, and you'll feel better simply for having it out there.
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It's not about something else; it is on topic.
She hurt my feelings because she isn't trying hard enough.
One way she isn't trying is that she didn't bring up the vacation plans during the interview. Another way she isn't trying is that she won't reach out and be the first to contact me.
"I need you to fight for me and act like you care, because right now I feel like you don't care. I'm sick of being the only one trying to make this relationship work."
Absolutely false.
The issue at hand is her dishonesty and lack of trustworthiness.
People are blaming me because I won't let her have a job. Please, this is not a rhetorical question. Please answer this question: how else am I supposed to respond to those claims when I've stated time and time again that I absolutely want her to work and that I'm happy for her that she's got a job?
Absolutely no one is arguing this point. In fact, I've been repeating this point like a broken record.
So it's pretty unnecessary that you chime in with this and blame me for it; the reason I'm ignoring your words is because they're not on point.
My point is that she was dishonest about it. She should've told me, "Actually this job is really important to me so if it gets in the way of our plans, then I'm sorry." At this point, I would've told her I understand, wish her luck on the interview, and promise to make things work around her job.
Instead she promised me there would be no interference. Her false promises are what upset me.
TL;DR- (Since it's obvious you don't read.) Don't address her taking the job. Once you start addressing her lying to me, I'm all ears.
1) you edited as i posted
2) i addressed the promise issue previously saying sometimes theyre made with good intentions but life gets in the way. IMO this is one of those cases. I dont see where she maliciously deceived you.
I'm really at a loss for trying to figure out what you want from me. Please answer the question so that I can figure out where you're coming from.
The malicious deception comes from the fact that she promised me the night before the interview that she would mention the vacation plans during the interview in the hopes that she could schedule her starting date around it.
She should've told me, "I really want this job and I'm afraid that if I bring up the vacation, I'll move down the list," instead of promising me she'll say something and then refusing to.
Its a matter of seemingly saying one thing but acting another. Youre happy for her but your not being very supportive or understanding. If your truly as happy for her as you claim then it should be a non issue. Its a roadblock yes, but one that can be worked around. Make the effort to work around it. If that means its gotta be on your dime, then it has to be on your dime. Dont attempt to make her feel guilty. I think youve turned a mole hill in to a mountain here.
If i "promise" to take my daughter to the movies Saturday, but for one reason or another end up having to work does that make me a liar and untrustworthy?
Want the short answer? WHO CARES. Its not as big a deal as youre making it out to be.
Can someone else chime in here? I imagine that you're the only one who feels this way.
Other people, if you agree with ThaDeceptikon, I encourage you throw in your two cents and prove me wrong.
The majority of the three pages were pretty much useless, so let's not blow this out of proportion here.
Still, the responses I got from Jay13 and ColdStorage have been helpful and legitimate and they're telling me I'm wrong. I understand that I have to put aside my biased opinions and trust the opinions of those who have an objective view on this.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But I also propose even distribution of number of cards in each rarity: Large set: 60 c, 60 u, 60 r, 60 m.
Probabilities of particular cards: Common 7/60, Uncommon 1/12, Rare 1/20, Mythic 1/60.
as someone who has been in interviews where i needed time before i could start... sometimes i have asked and been declined or else the job is gone, other times i never got a chance to ask because they made it abundantly clear themselves that it was this day or no day
First, "Does she know -explicitly- why you are mad about this situation?". In other words, Have you explained to her in clear terms as why you feel so strongly about her lying?". If it is the case that she knows then "Does she feel the same way?" ?
"Do you know why you are mad about this situation?"
I want to expand on this question some. From what I have gathered from your post is that you are mad becasue she lied to you about her promise "That she would go with you to where you currently reside (I presume) on January 16th." It may (or may not) be useful to ask "What reason am I mad about this?" I assume, that you would not get mad if she went to get pepperoni pizza only to come home with cheese pizza. Obviously, the former needs more thought than the latter.
I know that it is the case that you feel as though you are the only one in the relationship that is trying. "Can you provide further details on this?"
It does seem like a game of twenty-one questions, but if you answer them it may provide some insight to us both.
Thanks,
Jimmy666.
Wasn't the whole point of that episode that polygraphs were Bullshhh and just 'stress detectors', and the couple broke up for no good reason, just because the woman trusted the polygraph and not the guy? (It's been a while since I've seen it, but this is what I recall) If a couple can break up over such a misunderstanding, it hardly seems like a healthy relationship model to follow in the footsteps of.
In either case though, if you're looking for a relationship that doesn't require trust ... well, okay, that's your prerogative - but are you sure that's what she's wanting/expecting as well?
Look, if your ideal relationship involves two people who are just looking out for themselves and don't necessarily trust each other, and you find someone who thinks the same way you do, then everything is cool - but I would wager that that's not what most girls in your, let's call it a 'dating pool', are looking for. You started this thread by making the claim that you're "not really good with girls" (your words), and I think there's a possibility that the reason for that is you don't see things from their point of view. You seem to be treating this girl like she was just some buddy who bailed on you for work when you really wanted to hang out.
By everything you've said, it's not like she just blew you off, she failed to meet her commitment to you (it's not very reasonable to insist or expect that she make herself less available in a high-pressure, potentially competitive job-interview) - this is very different than blowing you off.
if I was this girl, I would be slightly hurt by the way you've acted, and perhaps a little angry. By the way you've framed this narrative, as soon as I informed you that I failed in what I said I'd do, your reaction was not to be there for me and comfort me through a stressful situation, but to be offended, get mad, and make it even worse. Did it ever occur to you that I was trying to downplay the situation because I was worried that you'd react exactly like this? It's not like I'm pleased with the way things turned out. If I was the one trying to start a relationship with you here, I'd be wondering why you didn't trust me and assume that I did everything I could, why you didn't immediately show sympathy with me for circumstances that I already felt kind of bad about, but instead, of all things, chose to punish me. How is that love? You're intentionally putting pressure on me to try to get me to act in the way you want like ... like I'm some sort of dog you're trying to train.
Okay, maybe I failed and I should feel a little bad about that, but don't you think I care enough about you to cover the guilt part by myself? If you don't think I care enough about you to have done my best here, and you don't care enough about me to focus on my feelings more than your own stupid pride, why are we even trying to have a relationship here? You intentionally put our whole relationship into question just because I failed to hang out with you in the Chicago suburbs for a few days; it's almost like you're trying to find an excuse not to be with me. Lord only knows what I should think when some internet neckbeard directs me over to this site for me to discover that you've been going onto the internet and talking to a bunch of geeks you don't even know about whether or not I 'deserve your forgiveness'.
I'm sorry to be so harsh, and I don't want this to sound too melodramatic, but Screw you Eddie. If you think so little of me that you have to poll anonymous internet denizens as to whether or not you should waste your precious time with me, then you don't think much of me, do you?
Anyways, that's just what I imagine I would think if I were her. I'm curious - what do you imagine is going through her head right now about you? Do you think she did this because she doesn't care about you? I'm also curious to how you think she would react if she read this thread and was allowed to post in it.
So noted. Again, I don't believe that I've overreacted but since the overwhelming majority of responses are echoing your same sentiment, it seems as though I'm in the wrong and I just don't know it.
I'll have to take it on faith that the masses know more about this than I do.
It's that she made no effort when she promised me that she would.
It's one thing if she brought it up and the job asked her to start immediately anyway. As I've said on at least two other occasions prior to this response, do not make the promise to try if you have no intention of trying.
Don't want to try? Fine, tell me that you don't rather than make a false promise.
Tried and failed? I understand too, I'm not going to make you choose between the job or me.
Yes, she knows that it's because she promised to try to start work after the vacation but then made no effort when it came time for the interview.
It's about the fact her word can't be trusted and that her promises mean nothing to me now.
The fact that she's just a college student working her first job and I'm out of school and doing quite well in terms of a financial standpoint, I'm the one that's paying for everything. I never once complained about paying; as far as I'm concerned, that's the only way this can work.
But how can I trust her to actually get on that plane when I buy her the plane ticket if her whim changes quicker than the wind?
I'm really running out of different ways to put this: it's not because she bailed on me for work.
She knew going into the interview that they were desperate for people and that she was going to get the job no matter what. But I don't even like bringing up that point because I feel like it's largely irrelevant to the issue anyway.
Also, as I pointed out, having plans for next weekend is not that unreasonable; it's called having a life. It's not six months down the line, it's right around the corner.
I've asked this question about four or five times now and still no one has bothered to provide a response to this question. Maybe if I make it really big and bold, someone will actually read something I'm typing for once and give me an answer to the question.
If you are an interviewer, do you really expect all your interviewees to not have lives? Is it that unreasonable, interviewee or not, that a person has plans for next weekend?
You keep missing the point, again and again and again and again. And again. And again. And again.
She didn't do everything she could. I'm repeating for the fourth (fifth?) time in this reply alone (and probably about the tenth time overall in this thread) that she swore to make an effort to maintain our vacation plans despite the interview and then refused to make such effort she promised; she opened her mouth and talked but it was never about vacation plans.
Once again now for those who have a short term memory: it's not that she tried and failed; it's that she didn't care enough to honor her promise to try.
And once again, it bears repeating that I merely asked her to try and she agreed. If she had no intentions of trying, the moral thing to do is to say that she has no intention of trying. No broken promises, no butthurt.
That's certainly not my intent here. I basically have no friends, so the MTGS community is somewhere I thought I could turn since they are my friends (until I now realized no one knows how to read).
I'm allowed to discuss my times of hardship with others to get advice and solace.
1. When you refer to the "promise" that was broken, are you referring to the generic promise to "try to make this long distance thing work", or did she make a specific promise to mention the start time during the interview? Did she use the word "promise"?
2. How much time would she need to take off in order to see you? Could she just take a friday off and come down for the weekend or is the ticket expensive enough that it needs to be longer?
3. Did she ever give a reason for not mentioning it in the interview? Did you ask?
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Okay, I'll bite. You seem really focused on this, so the answer to both questions is no. However, another pertinent question here is: If an interviewer has two applicants, one who can start next week and one who can start in two weeks, all other factors equal, who are they going to choose? You seem to be really focused on her being in the wrong and you being in the right. But frankly, that's not really the most important thing right now. The important thing is, what are you going to do about it? Have you talked to her since three days ago when you originally posted this? Do you want to talk to her? If you do, man up, swallow your pride, and call her. If not, it's over and done with, so stop arguing with folks on Salvation and move on with your life. If you can't get over the fact that she did not keep her promise to you, the latter is the best course of action. Because yes, you can expect that there will be times in the future she will say she is going to do something and doesn't follow through. That doesn't make her a bad person. It just means that **** happens, and maybe she intented to do it but chickened out, or maybe she just wanted to tell you what you wanted to hear so you wouldn't get mad. And to be honest, if you want someone who treats everything they say to you as a legally binding contract, you're going to be looking for "that special someone" for a long, long time.
This seems like more of an impression than something she's stated herself. Interviews are high pressure situations, and she could have easily gone in wanting to say something and found herself not able to.
And how do you know she didn't try? Did she actually say she didn't try, or just that she didn't stir up the courage to tell the interviewer?
If I'm an interviewer for an unskilled labor job, I really don't care why you want what you want.
Yes, I feel free to not hire you simply because you are both less available, and, more importantly, seem less concerned with doing whatever it takes to get this job - which makes me think you don't want it as much and will be less motivated to do quality work within it.
Is it "fair to you"? Who cares, your the one who came here to want to enter into an arrangement with me and the company. I don't owe you a job, no one does, I'm simply here to select the person who will be the most reliable. If there's any equivalent applicants who seem to be making themselves more available, well guess who I hire. This is a job any idiot can do, but only the motivated will bother to do well, and I'm suppose to choose the applicant who doesn't bother to make herself available during the very first week of the job?
Look, maybe I'll hire you anyways if there's already some positive things going for you that aren't in my other current applicants, but yes, advertising to me how you can make yourself unavailable goes in the 'con' list. If everything else was equal, I'd rather take someone with less signs of a "life" that they leave town for. You start showing signs of unavailability here at your peril.
In the end though, I don't think whether or not you've been reasonable really matters to your primary problem. As you've said yourself, you don't trust a word she says. Maybe, that's because she didn't really try at all. Maybe, that's because your an over-reactive and untrusting jerk. Without having been present, it's really hard to say which of these things it is for sure, but no matter which one it is ... how exactly would you foresee a relationship with her going? You forcing her to take fidelity polygraph tests, rooting through her stuff, reacting with untrustworthy jealousy whenever she's being friendly with strange men ... I mean, do you really think this is a life with you she'd sign up for?
Look, whoever you want to say is at fault here, the one thing that basically every responder I've read here has agreed on is that you're treating her badly. At this point, it doesn't matter whose to blame. You're in the same situation either way.
Again, if everyone 'misses a point', re-evaluate the context yourself.
The reason we've been missing this point is it hasn't been established, you've just been claiming it. Nothing you've said tells us she hasn't tried, only that she didn't say the words to the interviewer, which are very different things.
Isn't she your friend? Someone you can talk to about your relationship problems?
It's okay if the answer's 'no', I just think that if that is the case, it's rather telling.
You are, the point of the question is whether or not you think she's being represented fairly.
Here, let me underline the issue ...
The reason, I would posit, that you keep feeling you have to repeat this, and that it seems like people aren't hearing you, is that, despite, yes, having read those words, people are allowing here for something very specific here that happens all the time;
Unreliable Narrator.
If it feels like everytime you say that it isn't getting through, it's because it isn't. It's being consciously filtered out.
You make all these claims that what she did was out of such indifference, and, honestly, it doesn't seem to hold up with the rest of the narrative. Nothing you say she did necessarily speaks of indifference. Now maybe its true and it wasn't just a failure to speak and really was because she didn't care about all those plans she made with you, but what seems more likely is that this is your ego's version of the story - it's how you see it after being emotionally hurt and focusing on whether or not you were treated fairly.
IN EITHER CASE though, the game's up.
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What are the possibilities here?
1) She really doesn't care about honoring her word with you, due to a lack of respect.
2) She does care about honoring her word with you, failed to do so in a high-stress situation, and you get all outraged and start distancing yourself from her, adding to the stress and showing a large lack of empathy. Add to this that you are unlikely to change.
NEITHER of these possibilities leads to a very good outlook for this relationship. Don't bother to defend your version of events regarding whether its situation 1 or 2, because that's not the important distinction, simply say if you can find a 3rd possibility here.
This is the only part of this post whose response I'd be interested to hear - can you think of a 3rd possibility? Because if you can't, in both of the above cases, you should call her to apologize (just to be nice), and end it, because either she isn't mature enough for an adult relationship let alone a long distance one, or you aren't.
No one suggested the issue is that you don't want her to work. Like 0% users suggested that or discussed that in any way.
The issue at hand here is how much weight you put in the action of taking a promise. For every promise theres a vast number of circumstances by which breaking the promise is the morally correct thing to do.
With that said, I honestly don't think she would risk anything by merely asking when she would have to start and if this date could be delayed - but that's because I've participated a half a dozen interviews and I'm used to work environments, selections and such. I could see how a first timer would totally freak out and fail to speak out something, even if it's important.
If you want to be mad at her because she fail to keep her promise or because she didn't weighted that promise as much as you did, that's your choice. I feel like promises for you means a lot more then it actually mean for most people. Promises means "i will try a more then i normally would", not "I will definitely do it no matter what". You comparing breaking a promise to be unfaithful is a sign of your peculiar view on what a promise actually means in a daily life.
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This. This is what you're missing OP.
You have stated many times that her choosing the job over you is NOT the reason you're mad. You're mad because she promised to request a later start date. However, we can see from her actions that during the interview she concluded that merely asking could be threatening to her chances of getting the job. Given this, you being upset at her breaking this promise is equivalent to you being upset this she didn't put her job in jeopardy for you. Even if you genuinely didn't want her to turn down the job for you (and I believe this is the case), your actions suggest otherwise once she's realized that making the request you wanted could be risky.
Should she have not made this promise in the first place? Perhaps, but at the time she made it, she likely thought it would be no big deal to make the request, so she made the promise to make you happy. During the interview she got new information and was immediately forced to choose between keeping her promise and hopefully getting the job. She chose the job assuming that you would understand this.
So I think the misunderstanding is within your question of "do interviewers really expect interviewees to not have a life?" The answer, as least for unskilled laborers, is, "they don't care. They just need bodies when they need them. And those bodies are a dime a dozen."
You need to understand that breaking a promise does not inherently mean someone is not trustworthy. Someone is untrustworthy when their intent is to deceive.
I just wanted to wish the OP the best of luck with the whole situation, regardless.
Actually, I did call her and I'll address that issue at the end of this long post. I just want to wrap things up before I have this thread locked.
1. Am I upset that she won't see me on the 16th (today)? Yes. But will I get over that? Of course, I want her to work and if her job says that she has to stay then I'm not going to make her quit her job over me. What I'm upset about is the phone conversation on the night before the interview last week, where she agreed to make a mention of her vacation plans during the interview and didn't. If she didn't want to make a mention of it, she could've just told me "I really want this job and I feel like this would hurt my chances," and I would've understood. As far as whether the word "promise" was actually used, I genuinely do not remember. But I don't think that semantics of word choices are necessary; if she told me she'd do something, she should do it.
2. Her job has her working on the weekends. She goes to school on the weekdays, except Fridays. I was hoping that she could just put these vacation plans on the table during the interview process so that she can still take her trip. Money is a non-issue.
3. See one line below.
That's the same thing, isn't it?
She said there was no good time to mention it, even though they discussion starting date and days of availability. Did she get nervous about it? Possibly. But even if she did get nervous about it, that's still not trying.
That's the jump I don't follow.
Having plans for next weekend is having a life. It's perfectly natural for any human being to have plans for next weekend. That just shows this person is a normal human being, not unmotivated.
It's possible to explain that you honor your promises in the order that you made them. This vacation was before the job, so it comes from. Now that she knows about the job, the job comes first from here on out.
The reason I'm seeking out help here is to get some outside help from an unbiased party. Of course she's going to tell me that I'm wrong because that's what she thinks; that's what a fight is.
She thinks I overreacted, I don't think that I did. I already know her side of the story.
Now, if more people (e.g., neutral parties here) tell me that I'm wrong then I'm more inclined to believe that I should put my biased opinion aside and trust that the masses are right. And yes, it basically has come to that point and so I called her. More on that at the very end of this post.
To me, 1 & 2 are the same. If it's that physically inconvenient to say one or two sentences so that she could spend some more time with me, I'd call that being pretty indifferent. Again, I'll give a recap of what has happened in the last 24 hours at the end of this post. I just don't want to have to type the same thing to each reply.
If she didn't want to mention in at the interview, she should've just said so while on the phone with me the night before, instead of making false promises.
All the examples above are situations where the focus was put on something else, like her actually having a job or me visiting her instead.
I'm frustrated that she promised to say something about the vacation plans during the interview, if she wasn't going to.
I would've been okay with her outright canceling the vacation then and there. I'm okay with her mentioning it to the job and the job refusing to allow it.
[B]Once again now: I'm not okay with promising one thing and doing another.[/B]
That's not what she told me. She could've told me on the phone, "They were really wanting me to start right away so I figured that if I brought this up then they might pass on me."
Instead, she told me that she never had a chance to bring it up. Even though she managed to schedule her work around her school.
(Now some idiot is going to misinterpret that last sentence and be all, "well of course school is more important to her too!" That's not my point. She told me she didn't have a chance, but her chance was to mention it at the same time as she mentioned school. I never wanted her to not work and I never wanted her to not go to school.)
My main issue is that am I ever going to see her again? Perhaps it's not an untrustworthiness based on her morals as a person. But how can I confidently shell out hundreds of dollars for a plane ticket for her if I know there's a possibility that she won't get on the plane because she just doesn't feel like it.
The same way she didn't feel like mentioning the vacation plans during the interview.
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Anyway, an update on the situation is that I have since called her and we talked it out and we're going to make an effort to forget everything that happened in the past week.
Some of you might say that this is only a temporary solution to the problem if I don't change my attitude. This is a point that I now understand after reading the replies you guys have given me, so I appreciate that.
The trouble is that I'm stubborn. Very stubborn. But hopefully, I'll be able to keep my anger issues in check. Wish me luck?
You must appreciate how selfish that bolded part comes off. She really has no obligation to make the relationship work, even if she initially wanted to.
And where is this idea of always texting the girl first coming from? That's needy and awful. It's not a 'girl thing' to text first. It's an eager thing. And doing it so much you were coming off too eager.
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10/10, I tapped.
The result is the same, indeed. But the intent does matter- with intent, in a less stressful situation, she may have succeeded. Without intent, she would fail regardless of the situation. I think as this relationship continues you'll be able to determine her intentions more clearly. Just remember, people make mistakes and sometimes they fail to meet your expectations. Part of being in love is having the grace to forgive them when this happens.
I'm glad you two are still in contact and I hope you can make things work in the future.
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