Maybe because Proph has been lynched as of his self-hammer?
At any rate, I'm perturbed that I allowed myself to become distracted by my paranoia of Seppel on Day 3 instead of pursuing Proph like I originally wanted to.
Shockwave certainly bears scrutiny now, with the way he's handled the Proph lynch.
I understand your points on Shockwave, and I even have some of my own (ie. the first few pages of the game). But he has just been quite bizarre or ridiculous at some points in the game and I don't feel like most of those instances could come from scum.
Alright. 3 votes to close this game gives us some room to work with right now.
Karn thinks I am too odd to be scum, Nny as his choice for last scum, and no word on Fadeblue. What are your thoughts on Fade, Karn? Is there something you think clears him?
Nny thinks I am scum and I have had plenty of moments when people thought of me that way, no word on Fade or Karn toDay, but the previous Day's content may shed some light on that... Karn town in your eyes.
And Fade thinks I am Proph's partner, at least that is what he implied in his post late yesterDay. Recent thoughts on Karn has gone from vig shot target to questioning. Nny was suspected as a potential scum teammate and is only thinking me because I stalled the Proph wagon yesterDay. (I'll concede guilty on the stall, but I wanted up to date reads.)
I'm doing my own reading, but I maybe picking up on things that might be pointing me in the right direction. I also wonder if there is something in the content of the past NK targets that might have something worth bringing up...
Need to reread but I still don't have Internet at my new apartment, so I've been living off a tethered iPhone. I'll try to get through as much as possible this weekend but I also have work to take care of.
@Nny: You do realize that you need both Karn and me to vote Shock? You don't seem particularly interested in trying to prove that case.
I think this clears Fade beyond any doubt. (Though I do remember FIGHTING bringing up during Day 1 the possibility of a Proph/Fade dichotomy based on following each other onto wagons to determine each others alignment's, or so one half claimed. Proph we now know is scum.)
At this point I am comfortable with leaving my vote where it is, mainly due to no threat of quick hammer. Nny make your case and I'll try to answer you points as best as possible.
I didn't have time to do any rereading over the weekend. However, Nny's silence and apparent indifference looks worse than Shock's voting record right now (and that's pretty much the only point against Shock).
I suppose I can just vote Nny and get this over with.
@Nny: You do realize that you need both Karn and me to vote Shock? You don't seem particularly interested in trying to prove that case.
If I were the last member of the scum team, do you not think I'd be putting more effort into the game, seeing as I would only need one more mislynch to win at this point were that the case?
I think this clears Fade beyond any doubt. (Though I do remember FIGHTING bringing up during Day 1 the possibility of a Proph/Fade dichotomy based on following each other onto wagons to determine each others alignment's, or so one half claimed. Proph we now know is scum.)
How is the parenthetical notation relevant?
Quote from Shockwave07 »
Nny make your case and I'll try to answer you points as best as possible.
I genuinely do not feel the need to make a case on you. The fact that you felt the need to put a vote on Proph after he was lynched screams amateur scum to me.
I didn't have time to do any rereading over the weekend. However, Nny's silence and apparent indifference looks worse than Shock's voting record right now (and that's pretty much the only point against Shock).
I suppose I can just vote Nny and get this over with.
Again, I ask: Do you not think I would be more motivated to push Shockwave if I were the last scum?
If you really need me to case Shockwave for you to not throw this game away, I can. But it's absolutely not necessary, in my opinion, and you and Karn can save yourselves the trouble of looking like you don't know what you're doing (barring the off chance that Karn is the last scum) in the post-game by lynching Shockwave.
Frankly, I'm baffled that my activity (which I've said at least once before is due to my workload) appears to be holding any sway on your opinion of my alignment. The indifference in this scenario should make it evident that I'm not desperate to get a non-Nny player lynched, which is what I imagine the last scum would be doing in this situation - namely Shockwave, whose language on the last page or two is very clearly nervous.
Why would it? Karn has decided to brick wall us and Shockwave is scum. You're the only person I can hold any sway over in this situation since Karn evidently has not accepted my rebuttal to his points against me as reality, and your vote plus mine can't lynch Shockwave. As town, there is no point in my attempting to sway anybody but Karn in this scenario, and obviously I'd already be doing my damnedest to do so if I were actually scum - the fact that I've rebutted his case is sufficient for me, and I don't see you attempting to change his mind.
Again, do you want I should case Shockwave?
If absolutely necessary, I can say, "Let's No Lynch," which will put us in the exact same situation minus you on the next Day, given that you are currently the only non-Nny player alive who might vote for Shockwave (unless Shockwave wants to attempt to WIFOM us by killing Karn, but that would be silly as you are currently confirmed town).
You feel that since (in your words) you are town that you don't feel the need to argue out a case to make sure you and the rest of the town players in the game win? And only if you were scum would you need to strongly argue a case?
It doesn't add up. You can't win this game as any alignment without arguing points whether right or misleadingly wrong. Present you case.
Also about your replies to quotes above:
Overkill/Post-lynch vote: It's not always a trait of scum. Kazekirimaru in Drury Lane over killed Tanarin as town in that game. (A bit of an irrelevant aside here, but the way that Mod handle it in flavor had me both laughing at the fact of him including it in some way in the death scene and cringing as it was on a mislynch there.)
Parenthetical notation text: While it does have little value in light of other evidence already presented, it does have some minor relevance still. But truthfully it is also in some ways a note to myself that I should have heeded FIGHTING's advice sooner as someone to clear off of my potential scum list.
That all said I would like a case from you as to why I am scum. I want to know if your thinking I am scum is just because of that one point, a case that is full of poor logic, or actually a case that I could see some relevancy in from a town POV. Besides, if you are infuriated by Karn's stonewalling, not that I haven't had moments myself of not liking that from him, I believe that you shouldn't try to emulate him and continue to stonewall us about giving a case you have. If work is a constraint be honest about it.
I think Fade is intentionally delaying casting his vote for some reason and I want to figure out why. The reasons can vary, from casing confusion, solving the game and wanting the rest of the town players to puzzle it out, not truely believing Nny is scum and only hinting at it with the refusal to vote yet...
I am not sure. Either way taking the time to look at everything (NK's, Lynches, flips, flavor hints) and seeing what turns up.
And also I don't think a No Lynch toDay is the way to go. It will just lead to the logical NK of Fade at this point and leave us in a similar situation, just with a smaller lynch threshold.
Scratch that last post. Evidence shows Karn never character claimed.
And based on scum muppet flips, Cookie Monster and Oscar the Grouch, there maybe a flavor element in which muppets are the scum team. Cookie was portrayed as greedy and Oscar is somewhat antisocial.
This hints towards the last muppet having a flavor based scum motivation as well.
Also we have no counter claimed characters and no evidence in this game of the scum team having fakeclaims as both lynched scum team members used the characters they were given.
So who is the last mafia muppet? Will look into evidence on each player... And I think we've all haven't looked in the right spot yet.
...I forgot how long it took Nny to actually post content in this game...
50 pages at 15 posts per page (750 posts!) and nothing to really call content other than the Rosita breadcrumb/Miley Cirus scummy action humor post from the sXe/Nny slot...
The only thing that could hint Nny is not on the Proph/Cantrip scum team is Proph's first vote going on sXe, but can see that happening to a scum team member that is getting quite lazy. On top of that it is a wagon that would gain little traction if it even got that far.
Talking myself in circles here.
Karn would you please character claim. I have I know who you have and how this character has arithmomania. Nny roleclaim. It's to the point where it should be all on the table now.
I'm now having doubts about the last scum being Shockwave. I'm starting to want to lynch Karn again.
fadeblue, put yourself in my shoes for a moment. I know I can trust you because you haven't ended the game yet. Is the last scum Shockwave or Karn?
I'm paranoid because I've seen scum coast to endgame on the "look at how right I am" bravado that Karn is displaying now from busing, and it looks like Shockwave is actually trying to solve the game - though he could simply be frustrated that the final mislynch hasn't fallen yet.
I haven't been able to reread at all, but my current thoughts are this:
- Shockwave is most likely town based on his thought processes and behavior. The main point against him is the late voting behavior throughout the game and the stall on Proph's lynch but could be explained by lack of confidence and being overly cautious (both common in new players)
- Karn has pretty much been on all the right wagons, IIRC. I don't know if this accuracy is normal for him but raises a concern of "being too correct." However, I indicated at the end of yesterday that I was leaning towards a Shockwave lynch and offered him a chance to join that easy wagon today, but he declined and stuck to his guns, which is a point in his favor. The case against him being scum also relies on him heavily bussing, but I don't know how gambity he is. Also, town Seppel has fairly good reads (even if he can't present them well) and he was strong on Karn being town (I'm putting stock into his reads here because he put in considerable effort.)
- The main reason I felt Nny was town before was his posts leading up to the LnG lynch, but that one ended up being wrong. Since then I haven't seen a strong case for him being town, which makes him the most likely scum by default. There are also several posts that feel insincere by gut. I also don't like his current strategy here of trying to appeal specifically to me (due to my indecision) when it means nothing if he doesn't convince someone else as well.
I feel bad I haven't been able to follow to the point that I feel comfortable playing Kingmaker here but I also don't like being the drag on this game. At this point I'm willing to play the odds on Nny just so this game doesn't last for eternity.
I'm just going to go with my gut and leave it up to Shockwave if he wants to keep rereading. I don't see anything close enough to a case on any other player, and No Lynch will lead to a Nny lynch anyway.
I'm paranoid because I've seen scum coast to endgame on the "look at how right I am" bravado that Karn is displaying now from busing, and it looks like Shockwave is actually trying to solve the game - though he could simply be frustrated that the final mislynch hasn't fallen yet.
You're implying that I haven't already solved the game - and possibly worse - you're saying that I'm not even trying. If you'll recall this post...
Now Nny is unvoting Shockwave since he's realizing that won't work and is meandering his way over to me. All while accusing me of "stonewalling" with no basis, and saying that I've "flown below the radar the entire game" when I've done leaps and bounds more than he has - yet he sees it as a reason to suspect me.
And yes, I have a big bravado because my reads are so good so consistently in so many games.
Now Nny is unvoting Shockwave since he's realizing that won't work and is meandering his way over to me.
This is how I'm reading Nny's post as well. Without Karn's vote Shock can't be lynched, and now that Shock has unvoted he sees a potential opportunity to sway 2 votes onto Karn (the only other possible lynch)
And I guess I owe you a reason why I am voting you after all is said and done.
I looked back at the interactions between our scum flips and our other unconfirmed players. Proph begins with a vote on sXe (Nny's slot). Looking back it is one of those votes that can be a subtle way of coaching, while also placing a vote on a wagon that won't take off. It serves to draw attention away from the inactive slot.
Towards Karn he is willing to sheep him when his current reads where RR (confirmed town though not known at the time), Cantrip (scum buddy), and me (town). He talks up Karn's town game, but never puts forth any effort to prove Karn town or scum even though he implies he would.
Scum!Cantrip has distaste for Karn, based on going after low hanging fruit as he claimed and very little interest in sXe (Nny) other than posting something.
Day 1 ends Cantrip lynch, Day 2 begins Storyteller NK.
Karn, along with most of the game, go after RR then LnGrrrR after RR's role reveal.
Nny comes into the game showing interest in clearing Seppel and Generic based on a LnGrrrR scum flip. In retrospect this looks terrible along with the fact of how little attention he gives Proph.
Day 2 ends with a LnGrrrR lynch, Day 3 opens FIGHTING was NKed.
Karn keeps steady pressure on Proph as he fakeclaims Vig and still very little interaction between Nny and Proph. (FIGHTING did point out the lack of interaction between the mismatch pair of LnGrrrR and Cantrip. I think Proph would be an expirienced enough of a player that he would know any unwarranted spike in cross-player interaction would draw attention in a bad way. Nny interaction is minimal, mostly engaged by him.)
Day 3 Seppel lynch, Day 4 opens with Generic NK announcement.
Autopilot Day with very little content, yet an odd timed vote by Nny on Karn which he switchs to a Proph vote... Reaction trapping?
Day 4 Proph lynch, Day 5 RR has been NKed.
Fade has been proven town.
I am still nervous I have played into a well orchastrated scum game, but looking at the actions signs point to Cantrip/Nny/Proph. The only thing I am worried might have thrown me off is Proph talking up a scum!Karn as town and doing a quite unlikely scum sheep to throw us off...
(Sorry for the delay in posting. Still coming down from Christmas time visits around here. That and a trip to a casino.)
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At any rate, I'm perturbed that I allowed myself to become distracted by my paranoia of Seppel on Day 3 instead of pursuing Proph like I originally wanted to.
Shockwave certainly bears scrutiny now, with the way he's handled the Proph lynch.
Lynch scene will be up later today.
-----
Vote Count
Prophylaxis (4) Sir Karn, Nny, fadeblue, Prophylaxis
Not Voting (2) Rancid Raptor, Shockwave07
-----
"Well Oscar, it's pretty clear you were lying. We're lynching you now. Get out of your trash can."
"Ok... Has anyone even seen my legs before?"
"No... woah. You look really weird outside your trashcan."
"SCRAM!"
-Crack-
Prophylaxis, better known as Oscar, Mafia Goon, has been lynched.
It is now Night 4. Do not post.
No, there had to be another bad muppet. Rancid Raptor, aka Bert, Town Mason, was gone without a trace.
The good muppets still had work to do, but there was not many of them left.
It is now Day 5, you may post.
With 4 alive it is 3 votes to lynch.
Yes.
Vote: Nny
You need to learn what scum look like.
Vote Shockwave
I understand your points on Shockwave, and I even have some of my own (ie. the first few pages of the game). But he has just been quite bizarre or ridiculous at some points in the game and I don't feel like most of those instances could come from scum.
Karn thinks I am too odd to be scum, Nny as his choice for last scum, and no word on Fadeblue. What are your thoughts on Fade, Karn? Is there something you think clears him?
Nny thinks I am scum and I have had plenty of moments when people thought of me that way, no word on Fade or Karn toDay, but the previous Day's content may shed some light on that... Karn town in your eyes.
And Fade thinks I am Proph's partner, at least that is what he implied in his post late yesterDay. Recent thoughts on Karn has gone from vig shot target to questioning. Nny was suspected as a potential scum teammate and is only thinking me because I stalled the Proph wagon yesterDay. (I'll concede guilty on the stall, but I wanted up to date reads.)
I'm doing my own reading, but I maybe picking up on things that might be pointing me in the right direction. I also wonder if there is something in the content of the past NK targets that might have something worth bringing up...
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(And makes me even more worried about how much of the obvious I miss sometimes.)
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If no discussion happens 24 hours after this post I'm throwing in my vote and will put Nny at L-1. I believe Karn has this figured out.
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Also, why did you yourself not consider Shock as potential scum in #1380?
Move to vote, Vote: Nny
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I've sufficiently responded to all accusations levied against myself.
He had had absolutely no presence in the game up to that point, so he didn't register as a player in this game to me.
@Nny: You do realize that you need both Karn and me to vote Shock? You don't seem particularly interested in trying to prove that case.
At this point I am comfortable with leaving my vote where it is, mainly due to no threat of quick hammer. Nny make your case and I'll try to answer you points as best as possible.
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I suppose I can just vote Nny and get this over with.
If I were the last member of the scum team, do you not think I'd be putting more effort into the game, seeing as I would only need one more mislynch to win at this point were that the case?
How is the parenthetical notation relevant?
I genuinely do not feel the need to make a case on you. The fact that you felt the need to put a vote on Proph after he was lynched screams amateur scum to me.
I'm boredobvtown, you're taking up space, fade is busyconfirmedtown, and Shockwave is pretty clearly the last scum.
Sup with you?
Again, I ask: Do you not think I would be more motivated to push Shockwave if I were the last scum?
If you really need me to case Shockwave for you to not throw this game away, I can. But it's absolutely not necessary, in my opinion, and you and Karn can save yourselves the trouble of looking like you don't know what you're doing (barring the off chance that Karn is the last scum) in the post-game by lynching Shockwave.
Frankly, I'm baffled that my activity (which I've said at least once before is due to my workload) appears to be holding any sway on your opinion of my alignment. The indifference in this scenario should make it evident that I'm not desperate to get a non-Nny player lynched, which is what I imagine the last scum would be doing in this situation - namely Shockwave, whose language on the last page or two is very clearly nervous.
Again, do you want I should case Shockwave?
If absolutely necessary, I can say, "Let's No Lynch," which will put us in the exact same situation minus you on the next Day, given that you are currently the only non-Nny player alive who might vote for Shockwave (unless Shockwave wants to attempt to WIFOM us by killing Karn, but that would be silly as you are currently confirmed town).
You feel that since (in your words) you are town that you don't feel the need to argue out a case to make sure you and the rest of the town players in the game win? And only if you were scum would you need to strongly argue a case?
It doesn't add up. You can't win this game as any alignment without arguing points whether right or misleadingly wrong. Present you case.
Also about your replies to quotes above:
Overkill/Post-lynch vote: It's not always a trait of scum. Kazekirimaru in Drury Lane over killed Tanarin as town in that game. (A bit of an irrelevant aside here, but the way that Mod handle it in flavor had me both laughing at the fact of him including it in some way in the death scene and cringing as it was on a mislynch there.)
Parenthetical notation text: While it does have little value in light of other evidence already presented, it does have some minor relevance still. But truthfully it is also in some ways a note to myself that I should have heeded FIGHTING's advice sooner as someone to clear off of my potential scum list.
That all said I would like a case from you as to why I am scum. I want to know if your thinking I am scum is just because of that one point, a case that is full of poor logic, or actually a case that I could see some relevancy in from a town POV. Besides, if you are infuriated by Karn's stonewalling, not that I haven't had moments myself of not liking that from him, I believe that you shouldn't try to emulate him and continue to stonewall us about giving a case you have. If work is a constraint be honest about it.
Case soon please.
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I'll get something going to argue over...
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Anywho, watcha thinkin' about, shockwave?
I am not sure. Either way taking the time to look at everything (NK's, Lynches, flips, flavor hints) and seeing what turns up.
And also I don't think a No Lynch toDay is the way to go. It will just lead to the logical NK of Fade at this point and leave us in a similar situation, just with a smaller lynch threshold.
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Could you post them now?
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Just to find Karn's if he doesn't say it soon.
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And based on scum muppet flips, Cookie Monster and Oscar the Grouch, there maybe a flavor element in which muppets are the scum team. Cookie was portrayed as greedy and Oscar is somewhat antisocial.
This hints towards the last muppet having a flavor based scum motivation as well.
Also we have no counter claimed characters and no evidence in this game of the scum team having fakeclaims as both lynched scum team members used the characters they were given.
So who is the last mafia muppet? Will look into evidence on each player... And I think we've all haven't looked in the right spot yet.
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50 pages at 15 posts per page (750 posts!) and nothing to really call content other than the Rosita breadcrumb/Miley Cirus scummy action humor post from the sXe/Nny slot...
The only thing that could hint Nny is not on the Proph/Cantrip scum team is Proph's first vote going on sXe, but can see that happening to a scum team member that is getting quite lazy. On top of that it is a wagon that would gain little traction if it even got that far.
Talking myself in circles here.
Karn would you please character claim. I have I know who you have and how this character has arithmomania. Nny roleclaim. It's to the point where it should be all on the table now.
Will continue reading.
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I'm Rosita, Town Vanilla.
I'm now having doubts about the last scum being Shockwave. I'm starting to want to lynch Karn again.
fadeblue, put yourself in my shoes for a moment. I know I can trust you because you haven't ended the game yet. Is the last scum Shockwave or Karn?
I'm paranoid because I've seen scum coast to endgame on the "look at how right I am" bravado that Karn is displaying now from busing, and it looks like Shockwave is actually trying to solve the game - though he could simply be frustrated that the final mislynch hasn't fallen yet.
You're experienced. What do you think?
I haven't been able to reread at all, but my current thoughts are this:
- Shockwave is most likely town based on his thought processes and behavior. The main point against him is the late voting behavior throughout the game and the stall on Proph's lynch but could be explained by lack of confidence and being overly cautious (both common in new players)
- Karn has pretty much been on all the right wagons, IIRC. I don't know if this accuracy is normal for him but raises a concern of "being too correct." However, I indicated at the end of yesterday that I was leaning towards a Shockwave lynch and offered him a chance to join that easy wagon today, but he declined and stuck to his guns, which is a point in his favor. The case against him being scum also relies on him heavily bussing, but I don't know how gambity he is. Also, town Seppel has fairly good reads (even if he can't present them well) and he was strong on Karn being town (I'm putting stock into his reads here because he put in considerable effort.)
- The main reason I felt Nny was town before was his posts leading up to the LnG lynch, but that one ended up being wrong. Since then I haven't seen a strong case for him being town, which makes him the most likely scum by default. There are also several posts that feel insincere by gut. I also don't like his current strategy here of trying to appeal specifically to me (due to my indecision) when it means nothing if he doesn't convince someone else as well.
I feel bad I haven't been able to follow to the point that I feel comfortable playing Kingmaker here but I also don't like being the drag on this game. At this point I'm willing to play the odds on Nny just so this game doesn't last for eternity.
I'm just going to go with my gut and leave it up to Shockwave if he wants to keep rereading. I don't see anything close enough to a case on any other player, and No Lynch will lead to a Nny lynch anyway.
You're implying that I haven't already solved the game - and possibly worse - you're saying that I'm not even trying. If you'll recall this post...
Now Nny is unvoting Shockwave since he's realizing that won't work and is meandering his way over to me. All while accusing me of "stonewalling" with no basis, and saying that I've "flown below the radar the entire game" when I've done leaps and bounds more than he has - yet he sees it as a reason to suspect me.
And yes, I have a big bravado because my reads are so good so consistently in so many games.
This is how I'm reading Nny's post as well. Without Karn's vote Shock can't be lynched, and now that Shock has unvoted he sees a potential opportunity to sway 2 votes onto Karn (the only other possible lynch)
Vote: Nny
And I guess I owe you a reason why I am voting you after all is said and done.
I looked back at the interactions between our scum flips and our other unconfirmed players. Proph begins with a vote on sXe (Nny's slot). Looking back it is one of those votes that can be a subtle way of coaching, while also placing a vote on a wagon that won't take off. It serves to draw attention away from the inactive slot.
Towards Karn he is willing to sheep him when his current reads where RR (confirmed town though not known at the time), Cantrip (scum buddy), and me (town). He talks up Karn's town game, but never puts forth any effort to prove Karn town or scum even though he implies he would.
Scum!Cantrip has distaste for Karn, based on going after low hanging fruit as he claimed and very little interest in sXe (Nny) other than posting something.
Day 1 ends Cantrip lynch, Day 2 begins Storyteller NK.
Karn, along with most of the game, go after RR then LnGrrrR after RR's role reveal.
Nny comes into the game showing interest in clearing Seppel and Generic based on a LnGrrrR scum flip. In retrospect this looks terrible along with the fact of how little attention he gives Proph.
Day 2 ends with a LnGrrrR lynch, Day 3 opens FIGHTING was NKed.
Karn keeps steady pressure on Proph as he fakeclaims Vig and still very little interaction between Nny and Proph. (FIGHTING did point out the lack of interaction between the mismatch pair of LnGrrrR and Cantrip. I think Proph would be an expirienced enough of a player that he would know any unwarranted spike in cross-player interaction would draw attention in a bad way. Nny interaction is minimal, mostly engaged by him.)
Day 3 Seppel lynch, Day 4 opens with Generic NK announcement.
Autopilot Day with very little content, yet an odd timed vote by Nny on Karn which he switchs to a Proph vote... Reaction trapping?
Day 4 Proph lynch, Day 5 RR has been NKed.
Fade has been proven town.
I am still nervous I have played into a well orchastrated scum game, but looking at the actions signs point to Cantrip/Nny/Proph. The only thing I am worried might have thrown me off is Proph talking up a scum!Karn as town and doing a quite unlikely scum sheep to throw us off...
Either way, results will be in soon.
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Nny was Rosita, Town Vanilla.
The Street known as Sesame has now been completely taken over by the bad muppets. The game is now over.
Congrats to Sir Karn (Count von Count, Mafia Goon), and his dead comrades Prophylaxis and Cantripmancer on a mafia win!
Thanks everyone for playing. Additional details such as the mafia QT, the mason QT, and the role PMs will be posted soon.
I just lost all motivation to play the game at that point.