This forum should require any staff members to have a certain amount of positive itrader ratings. If you have 0, you cannot become staff. It's like how police have to be pepper sprayed before they can carry pepper spray or tazed before they can carry a tazer. Staff members here should be required to conduct trades through the forum before they can discipline people who use the forum to conduct trades.
I would suggest at least 10 would be suitable and very easily attained by people who try.
All Market Street staff have traded here - it's one of the things I look for when hiring staff. I'm not sure what happened, so please feel free to post on my help desk since this isn't a community issue (as it's already a standard practice).
Are you suggesting that even non-MS mods should be required to have a minimum number of trades? That would be a policy change.
Yup! Any staff should because when they are handing out suspensions or bans to users who use this forum as a mechanism for trading, they need to understand how that hurts them in real life. Therefore, they should have trading experience on the forum themselves, just as I mentioned police with tazers/pepper spray etc. If they don't have trading experience, they shouldn't have the authority to punish anybody.
We want the staff to have relevant experience. I don't think that all Legacy mods need to know play Standard because that's not what they do. Trading has nothing to do with moderating except in Market Street.
The police and tazer thing... yeah, the police that use them get to try them out, but the desk jockey at intake doesn't.
Seriously, relevant experience is required for all staff. Irrelevant experience is not.
We want the staff to have relevant experience. I don't think that all Legacy mods need to know play Standard because that's not what they do. Trading has nothing to do with moderating except in Market Street.
The police and tazer thing... yeah, the police that use them get to try them out, but the desk jockey at intake doesn't.
Seriously, relevant experience is required for all staff. Irrelevant experience is not.
The "desk jockey" at intake isn't tazering people though.
In this analogy, the tazer is a suspension or similar disciplinary action.
A mod shouldn't be able to make decisions that affect someone who trades on the forum if they themselves don't trade on the forum. It only makes sense.
Even if every moderator was required to have iTrader refs to be elected into a moderator position, that would not garner anyone else special treatment and the rules would be enforced as normal. Being suspended or banned is perfectly avoidable if users follow the rules. If you're in the middle of a trade and you get suspended, you contact a member of the staff about that trade. If the person you're trading with gets suspended, you contact a member of the staff about that trade. Suspensions aren't a fault of the staff enforcing the rules that every user agrees to follow when registering - they're the fault of the user who does not follow those rules.
Aes Sedai-
Right. And the "desk jockey" in Art or Entertainment or Standard isn't issuing penalties based on trading.
Are you suggesting that a moderator have suspensions on their record so they know what pain and suffering issuing suspensions creates? Sorry, but I am not seeing the parallels here.
Trading has nothing to do with their ability to do their job unless they are a Market Street mod.
Aes Sedai-
Right. And the "desk jockey" in Art or Entertainment or Standard isn't issuing penalties based on trading.
Are you suggesting that a moderator have suspensions on their record so they know what pain and suffering issuing suspensions creates? Sorry, but I am not seeing the parallels here.
Trading has nothing to do with their ability to do their job unless they are a Market Street mod.
Okay so if I get banned from the forum by someone who doesn't trade, am I still able to post in market street and use that board? If not then your separation between the two things is nonexistent and I'm right.
Trading has nothing to do with their ability to do their job unless they are a Market Street mod.
Even at administrator level, since typically speaking we have staff at all levels dedicated to MS to handle MS-related issues. When I was an admin, I had to deal with very little if any MS concerns because another admin was overseeing the area and since others had little relevant experience in the area we didn't take charge on situations that affected it.
Okay so if I get banned from the forum by someone who doesn't trade, am I still able to post in market street and use that board? If not then your separation between the two things is nonexistent and I'm right.
If you did something worth a ban, it doesn't matter if the staff member processing that ban has trade experience, you'd be getting banned regardless. I don't understand why you think it matters.
I'd just like to throw in that police don't have to be tasered before carrying a taser. I didn't think it relevant, but since it keeps coming up, that is not true, at least as far as the US goes. Getting tasered can cause permanent injury, even if done right.
On topic, asking someone to trade to be a mod is asking a volunteer to further extend their liability and (in a way) reach into their own pockets.
When I was a limited mod, I never even opened the trading subforum. Behind closed doors, I never even weighed in on discussions about trading related things. I believe most of my non-trade-mod cohorts conducted themselves in a similar way.
If there was a thing like this, I think it would be more in the form of a Trade forum policy test rather than required trades, and for full Globals and up only. (And as far as I know, that could be a thing that already exists in some form or another.)
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Edit: Nathed sort of by MikeyG, who put it very well.
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I'll be sad if people don't start calling The Chain Veil "Fleetwood Mac."
I'd just like to throw in that police don't have to be tasered before carrying a taser. I didn't think it relevant, but since it keeps coming up, that is not true, at least as far as the US goes. Getting tasered can cause permanent injury, even if done right.
Yes they do. I speak from experience and live in New York State.
Trading is a privilege on the site not a focus. The only mods that should require a iTrader is the ones who MOD the trade forums. Outside of that the ability to trade doesn't equal into the ability to manage a forum.
If you did something worth a ban, it doesn't matter if the staff member processing that ban has trade experience, you'd be getting banned regardless. I don't understand why you think it matters.
This is definitely the thing to focus on here, and I attempted to say something similar a few times but closed my reply because I couldn't quite put the words together.
If you've done something worthy of an infraction on some part of the site that is not the Trade forum, you are going to get that infraction. If that puts you over 3 infractions and thus leads to you getting suspending, that is the result of your actions. As a moderator, no one is going to stop and go "but wait, this might affect his ability to trade!" Trading is a privilege of being in good standing on this site. And the rules that govern what is infraction-worthy don't change based on a moderator's trade experiences.
This is more similar to asking that all police officers be people who have formerly had academic scholarships, so that they can better understand what someone might have taken away from them when they bust that person for drug possession.
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This is more similar to asking that all police officers be people who have formerly had academic scholarships, so that they can better understand what someone might have taken away from them when they bust that person for drug possession.
No that doesn't even make any sense at all. There's a reason police officers who carry a taser need to be tased in training. It's so they know what it feels like so they think twice before using it on someone.
Also, when you get arrested for drug possession, it doesn't take away your college degree.
Okay so if I get banned from the forum by someone who doesn't trade, am I still able to post in market street and use that board? If not then your separation between the two things is nonexistent and I'm right.
If you don't want your posting outside of the trading areas to have any chance of affecting your ability to trade, then not posting in a way that breaks the rules (or not posting at all, outside Trading) would be a good way to do it.
If you commit a crime in Arizona, it doesn't matter if you want to do things in New Jersey, and it doesn't matter if the cops there have been in New Jersey. You can still go to jail in Arizona.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
If you don't want your posting outside of the trading areas to have any chance of affecting your ability to trade, then not posting in a way that breaks the rules (or not posting at all, outside Trading) would be a good way to do it.
If you commit a crime in Arizona, it doesn't matter if you want to do things in New Jersey, and it doesn't matter if the cops there have been in New Jersey. You can still go to jail in Arizona.
If you commit a crime in Arizona and go to New Jersey, you won't be arrested by cops from Arizona because there is a thing called jurisdiction. This is why if you commit a crime outside of city limits, city cops can't arrest you. Also, many state laws are not the same so New Jersey cops probably won't even arrest you depending on what the crime is.
Maybe there should be board-by-board bans? E.g. you get banned from the Standard board but can still post everywhere else.
No that doesn't even make any sense at all. There's a reason police officers who carry a taser need to be tased in training. It's so they know what it feels like so they think twice before using it on someone.
Also, when you get arrested for drug possession, it doesn't take away your college degree.
What you're saying actually doesn't make any sense at all.
Why is it that you should be allowed to trade through this website when you have broken the rules enough times outside of trading to have earned you a suspension from the website?
This is like saying that if you get sent to prison for murder, you should still be allowed to go ride roller coasters because roller coasters had nothing to do with your murder.
Also, I didn't say it would take away your college degree, but you can lose your academic scholarship (depending on its conditions) when you break the law and get arrested.
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This is like saying that if you get sent to prison for murder, you should still be allowed to go ride roller coasters because roller coasters had nothing to do with your murder.
No it's not. It's like saying that a cop who wants to carry pepper spray should first be pepper sprayed. And oh look, they do.
If you commit a crime in Arizona and go to New Jersey, you won't be arrested by cops from Arizona because there is a thing called jurisdiction. This is why if you commit a crime outside of city limits, city cops can't arrest you. Also, many state laws are not the same so New Jersey cops probably won't even arrest you depending on what the crime is.
But on MTGS you can't "leave the state"; your post remains there no matter what board you go and browse next.
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Maybe there should be board-by-board bans? E.g. you get banned from the Standard board but can still post everywhere else.
If you commit a murder in Arizona you don't get banned from Arizona, you get jailed.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Trading is a privilege of being in good standing on this site.
That's pretty much all there is to it. I personally don't want to trade with people who aren't in good standing because they've got less to lose if they do rip someone off.
There are several remedies to this which do not require a completely unnecessary and counterproductive rule. The first is to follow the rules the best you can. Second is to make sure your trading partners have a way to contact you outside of MtGS. I prefer Instant Messaging service, but email works too. Third, you can contact a MS mod (like myself) and they will do what they can do to help confirmed trades.
The analogies are not helping your case. Simply put, moderators do not need to know about other sections that are unrelated to the rule you broke. Trading here is YOUR responsibility (and is a privilege), which means it is not our fault you broke the rules here and were suspended. As I said above, we are here to help but you are not going to get a free pass on breaking the rules because a moderator does not understand what it is like to have an issue in a trade.
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I would suggest at least 10 would be suitable and very easily attained by people who try.
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WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Yup! Any staff should because when they are handing out suspensions or bans to users who use this forum as a mechanism for trading, they need to understand how that hurts them in real life. Therefore, they should have trading experience on the forum themselves, just as I mentioned police with tazers/pepper spray etc. If they don't have trading experience, they shouldn't have the authority to punish anybody.
The police and tazer thing... yeah, the police that use them get to try them out, but the desk jockey at intake doesn't.
Seriously, relevant experience is required for all staff. Irrelevant experience is not.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
The "desk jockey" at intake isn't tazering people though.
In this analogy, the tazer is a suspension or similar disciplinary action.
A mod shouldn't be able to make decisions that affect someone who trades on the forum if they themselves don't trade on the forum. It only makes sense.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Right. And the "desk jockey" in Art or Entertainment or Standard isn't issuing penalties based on trading.
Are you suggesting that a moderator have suspensions on their record so they know what pain and suffering issuing suspensions creates? Sorry, but I am not seeing the parallels here.
Trading has nothing to do with their ability to do their job unless they are a Market Street mod.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Okay so if I get banned from the forum by someone who doesn't trade, am I still able to post in market street and use that board? If not then your separation between the two things is nonexistent and I'm right.
Even at administrator level, since typically speaking we have staff at all levels dedicated to MS to handle MS-related issues. When I was an admin, I had to deal with very little if any MS concerns because another admin was overseeing the area and since others had little relevant experience in the area we didn't take charge on situations that affected it.
If you did something worth a ban, it doesn't matter if the staff member processing that ban has trade experience, you'd be getting banned regardless. I don't understand why you think it matters.
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On topic, asking someone to trade to be a mod is asking a volunteer to further extend their liability and (in a way) reach into their own pockets.
When I was a limited mod, I never even opened the trading subforum. Behind closed doors, I never even weighed in on discussions about trading related things. I believe most of my non-trade-mod cohorts conducted themselves in a similar way.
If there was a thing like this, I think it would be more in the form of a Trade forum policy test rather than required trades, and for full Globals and up only. (And as far as I know, that could be a thing that already exists in some form or another.)
-----
Edit: Nathed sort of by MikeyG, who put it very well.
Yes they do. I speak from experience and live in New York State.
This is definitely the thing to focus on here, and I attempted to say something similar a few times but closed my reply because I couldn't quite put the words together.
If you've done something worthy of an infraction on some part of the site that is not the Trade forum, you are going to get that infraction. If that puts you over 3 infractions and thus leads to you getting suspending, that is the result of your actions. As a moderator, no one is going to stop and go "but wait, this might affect his ability to trade!" Trading is a privilege of being in good standing on this site. And the rules that govern what is infraction-worthy don't change based on a moderator's trade experiences.
This is more similar to asking that all police officers be people who have formerly had academic scholarships, so that they can better understand what someone might have taken away from them when they bust that person for drug possession.
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No that doesn't even make any sense at all. There's a reason police officers who carry a taser need to be tased in training. It's so they know what it feels like so they think twice before using it on someone.
Also, when you get arrested for drug possession, it doesn't take away your college degree.
If you don't want your posting outside of the trading areas to have any chance of affecting your ability to trade, then not posting in a way that breaks the rules (or not posting at all, outside Trading) would be a good way to do it.
If you commit a crime in Arizona, it doesn't matter if you want to do things in New Jersey, and it doesn't matter if the cops there have been in New Jersey. You can still go to jail in Arizona.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
If you commit a crime in Arizona and go to New Jersey, you won't be arrested by cops from Arizona because there is a thing called jurisdiction. This is why if you commit a crime outside of city limits, city cops can't arrest you. Also, many state laws are not the same so New Jersey cops probably won't even arrest you depending on what the crime is.
Maybe there should be board-by-board bans? E.g. you get banned from the Standard board but can still post everywhere else.
What you're saying actually doesn't make any sense at all.
Why is it that you should be allowed to trade through this website when you have broken the rules enough times outside of trading to have earned you a suspension from the website?
This is like saying that if you get sent to prison for murder, you should still be allowed to go ride roller coasters because roller coasters had nothing to do with your murder.
Also, I didn't say it would take away your college degree, but you can lose your academic scholarship (depending on its conditions) when you break the law and get arrested.
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EDH Cube
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No it's not. It's like saying that a cop who wants to carry pepper spray should first be pepper sprayed. And oh look, they do.
(Also known as Xenphire)
But on MTGS you can't "leave the state"; your post remains there no matter what board you go and browse next.
If you commit a murder in Arizona you don't get banned from Arizona, you get jailed.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
This issue is pretty simple. Simple enough that you don't need crazy analogies. Here you go!
|
|
v
That's pretty much all there is to it. I personally don't want to trade with people who aren't in good standing because they've got less to lose if they do rip someone off.
The analogies are not helping your case. Simply put, moderators do not need to know about other sections that are unrelated to the rule you broke. Trading here is YOUR responsibility (and is a privilege), which means it is not our fault you broke the rules here and were suspended. As I said above, we are here to help but you are not going to get a free pass on breaking the rules because a moderator does not understand what it is like to have an issue in a trade.