flare is actually terrible against jund, it's bad vs drs and bob, it's also bad versus discard since you can't use effectively in response to discard
but yeah if people are given the tried and true sideboard card(s) vs certain archetypes and don't like them, then the other option is play a different deck if you don't like your bogle/affinity match up and don't want to play the sideboard cards suggested
flare is actually terrible against jund, it's bad vs drs and bob, it's also bad versus discard since you can't use effectively in response to discard
but yeah if people are given the tried and true sideboard card(s) vs certain archetypes and don't like them, then the other option is play a different deck if you don't like your bogle/affinity match up and don't want to play the sideboard cards suggested
Its bad vs discard but ive used in in UW decks to great effect vs Jund. Between Counterspells and removal they are very rarely attacking with mass creatures. It catches goyfs and ooze almost always when cast. I mean it might not be ideal but its far from a dead card.
Everyone keeps saying engineered explosives. I don't know what boggle decks you guys play but most have 4-6 copies of totem armor enchants. Even if the enchant has a cmc of 1 the creature and other (non cmc 1) enchants survive the explosives. totem armor is slightly annoying...
Dude, people here are not saying explosives will solve the match up, but it will certainly help, totem armor or no.
As i see it, you have 3 choices:
1) you ignore the deck, since its tier 2 at most and accept an eventual loss should you cross it.
2) you play generalist cards that may help, but wont guarantee you winning (explosives)
3) you play bad cards designed to hose the deck, using valuable sb slots to win and leave yourself open to other match ups.
If it were me, i would chose 1. Maybe 2, if the cards are good in a few other match ups. NEVER choose 3.
Dude, people here are not saying explosives will solve the match up, but it will certainly help, totem armor or no.
As i see it, you have 3 choices:
1) you ignore the deck, since its tier 2 at most and accept an eventual loss should you cross it.
2) you play generalist cards that may help, but wont guarantee you winning (explosives)
3) you play bad cards designed to hose the deck, using valuable sb slots to win and leave yourself open to other match ups.
If it were me, i would chose 1. Maybe 2, if the cards are good in a few other match ups. NEVER choose 3.
Agreed. #2 is what I pick if the card is useful in other matchups. In this instance, Engineered Explosives is a great option for the modern meta. 1 or 2 is the number I personally run.
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So I agree celestial flare is the best card against boggles - I said that a few posts back. I thank thee again for the suggestion - question answered.
Unless you are playing at a big name tournament - you need to tailor your sideboard to your crappy LGS meta which likely includes a ton of annoying tier 2-3 decks like boggles. (If you are only sideboarding for the best tier 1 decks in the format at your LGS then you either don't know how to sideboard or live in a very modern-centric area). This is not the case for most people I would bet. Also, I think it may be better to ignore the majority of your decent-fair matchups and put in some hate for the stuff you really have trouble with - like in my case boggles. Most of the other stuff in my meta isn't too troublesome.
Engineered Explosives is good to bring in if its the only option you have against this deck, but I would by no means include it in the "having problems with boggles and need an answer" category. That was my point.
Engineered Explosives at 2 is probably better than 1 anyway because of the resilience of the 1cmc stuff - what you really want to get is daybreak coronet and even kor spiritdancer or spirit mantle (although your other removal kills kor spiritdancer easily). Celestial Flare just solves all the problems. Also, I too can see its usefulness against Jund. Who cares if it doesnt hit DRS or Bob - every other spell we have does and those spells have a hard time with goyf except path. Also kills opposing celestial colonnades pretty darn good.
Legacy:B The Gate // B Pox Modern:RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox EDH:RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal Tiny Leaders:BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
I don't understand why flare is good against boggles. Are you guys assuming that they don't sideboard? They will sideboard leyline of sanctity against us, which shuts off flare.
EE is the much better option. If you face that deck frequently enough that it is a problem, run tempest of light.
Personally, I'm happy with my 2 wear/tear, 1 EE, and 1 Supreme Verdict. But I only face that deck like once in every 3 tournaments or so.
I don't understand why flare is good against boggles. Are you guys assuming that they don't sideboard? They will sideboard leyline of sanctity against us, which shuts off flare.
I don't understand why Explosives is good against boggles. Are you guys assuming that they don't sideboard? They will sideboard Pithing Needle against us, which shuts off Explosives.
Yah I think that EE is an all star sideboard card regardless of the meta, and just the # changes in the board. I run 2 as it hoses, soul sisters, BW tokens, goblins, affinity, soul sisters again, I hate soul sisters, even jund it isnt dead, as 2 for 1ing their goyf and bob is a pretty sweet deal.
I think that the big difference between those two arguments is that Bogles boards don't typically run Needle. They do run Stony Silence and/or Suppression Field, but neither those cards nor Needle are consistent inclusions. Leyline, on the other hand, is an auto-include staple in the Bogles board, so I would be hesitant to bank that matchup on a card I know they will have in their sideboard.
They play 4-of Pithing Needle in the sideboard? That's pretty cool. I also heard if you start the game with Pithing Needle in your hand then you can put it into play. Oh wait... I must be thinking of a different card.
My gut says Timely Reinforcements because of Snapcaster, but Finks is so versatile.
Or if there is a better card all together, let me know.
I'm a huge fan of Timely Reinforcements. It's great at stalling and that's particularly what we want to do. I even boarded it in against UWR Delver (in UW Tron) when that was a thing, it's really good against Geist actually. The fact that you can flash it back is certainly relevant.
My gut says Timely Reinforcements because of Snapcaster, but Finks is so versatile.
Or if there is a better card all together, let me know.
Finks is usually not a very good sb card. Finks is a very good card in and of itself, but if you want to sideboard lifegain against a specific matchup timely is so much better. Other stuff like kor firewalker comes to mind as well, which function much better than finks against the matchup you would board them in.
Dude, people here are not saying explosives will solve the match up, but it will certainly help, totem armor or no.
As i see it, you have 3 choices:
1) you ignore the deck, since its tier 2 at most and accept an eventual loss should you cross it.
2) you play generalist cards that may help, but wont guarantee you winning (explosives)
3) you play bad cards designed to hose the deck, using valuable sb slots to win and leave yourself open to other match ups.
If it were me, i would chose 1. Maybe 2, if the cards are good in a few other match ups. NEVER choose 3.
I don't play WUR, but I do play against Boogles with other decks. I would run Spellskite before Celestial Flare, since it also helps in other matchups (Burn, blocking and turning their bolts into shocks, and Scapeshift, eating all the Valatuk triggers). It's also good vs Infect for the same reasons, and depending on the decklist you can board vs Affinity if they run Champion ('kite eats modular counters too). It's also quite good vs Twin, since it can interact with Pestermite and Splinter Twin itself (but no with Exarch and Kiki)
I believe WoTC's new policy is to make sure that every color can enjoy the exciting gameplay mechanic of making undercosted dudes and then turning them sideways. Clearly the future of magic.
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I think that the big difference between those two arguments is that Bogles boards don't typically run Needle. They do run Stony Silence and/or Suppression Field, but neither those cards nor Needle are consistent inclusions. Leyline, on the other hand, is an auto-include staple in the Bogles board, so I would be hesitant to bank that matchup on a card I know they will have in their sideboard.
Are you suggesting they are actually going to EXPECT Celestial Flare? Whatever, point is moot. The guy asked for a card that was good vs Bogles and was thankful for the answer of Celestial Flare. I could say here UWR Midrange is a great deck and derps would tell me I'm wrong just to argue a point.
Are you suggesting they are actually going to EXPECT Celestial Flare? Whatever, point is moot. The guy asked for a card that was good vs Bogles and was thankful for the answer of Celestial Flare. I could say here UWR Midrange is a great deck and derps would tell me I'm wrong just to argue a point.
Keyword is good. It's only good under certain unreasonable circumstances. In some scenarios the card is actually completely dead. And it's not as if these are just scenarios we pulled out of nowhere, it's based on a card they play and will bring in against us. It would be the same thing as if Affinity decided no white player would bring in Stony Silence.
Also, I wouldn't assume the opposite, they they would expect no Celestial Flare. I like to give credit to an opponent and it is sill a card they should be aware of. They should know it exists and be mindful of it.
I can argue anything for the sake of arguing, but I prefer to argue something for the reason that I believe it's wrong in some way.
Are you suggesting they are actually going to EXPECT Celestial Flare? Whatever, point is moot. The guy asked for a card that was good vs Bogles and was thankful for the answer of Celestial Flare. I could say here UWR Midrange is a great deck and derps would tell me I'm wrong just to argue a point.
No one is arguing a point. It's been a very nice discussion. Don't ruin that. Celestial Flare is a complete game winning card against Boggles, everyone agrees with that point. But there is a reason that Boggles dedicates four (4!!) sideboard slots to Leyline of Sanctity, her name is Liliana of the Veil. Celestial Flare gets caught up in the crossfire towards their hate against Liliana.
If I'm playing Boggles I'm bringing in Leyline of Sanctity against UWR Control/Midrange. Burn is a very viable wincon for both decks, and limiting wincons is a very real strategy. It puts a whole lot of dead cards in our deck.
Those are 2 very good reasons why you shouldn't be running Celestial Flare.
Stone Rain vs Molten Rain, which one do you guys like more? Is the 2 damage worth the extra R casting cost? Sometimes 1RR is difficult to put together in a 3 color deck, and other times it's not. I can't make up my mind.
I don't play bogle, so i'm not sure how you'd sideboard.
In my uninformed opinion I don't think I'd side in leyline vs a potential 1 of in a uwr deck. blanking burn is irrelevant since bogles can easily race burn, and the uwr player should cut some of the electrolyzes since they don't do anything. I'd rather have a more consistent deck.
I don't think i'd side in leyline unless I saw 2 flares in game 2.
but yeah if people are given the tried and true sideboard card(s) vs certain archetypes and don't like them, then the other option is play a different deck if you don't like your bogle/affinity match up and don't want to play the sideboard cards suggested
Sideboard (15)
1x Batterskull
2x Celestial Purge
2x Counterflux
1x Engineered Explosives
2x Molten Rain
1x Path to Exile
1x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Threads of Disloyalty
2x Wear / Tear
1x Wrath of God
It's possible that Molten Rain wants to be Stone Rain?
Its bad vs discard but ive used in in UW decks to great effect vs Jund. Between Counterspells and removal they are very rarely attacking with mass creatures. It catches goyfs and ooze almost always when cast. I mean it might not be ideal but its far from a dead card.
Dude, people here are not saying explosives will solve the match up, but it will certainly help, totem armor or no.
As i see it, you have 3 choices:
1) you ignore the deck, since its tier 2 at most and accept an eventual loss should you cross it.
2) you play generalist cards that may help, but wont guarantee you winning (explosives)
3) you play bad cards designed to hose the deck, using valuable sb slots to win and leave yourself open to other match ups.
If it were me, i would chose 1. Maybe 2, if the cards are good in a few other match ups. NEVER choose 3.
Agreed. #2 is what I pick if the card is useful in other matchups. In this instance, Engineered Explosives is a great option for the modern meta. 1 or 2 is the number I personally run.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Unless you are playing at a big name tournament - you need to tailor your sideboard to your crappy LGS meta which likely includes a ton of annoying tier 2-3 decks like boggles. (If you are only sideboarding for the best tier 1 decks in the format at your LGS then you either don't know how to sideboard or live in a very modern-centric area). This is not the case for most people I would bet. Also, I think it may be better to ignore the majority of your decent-fair matchups and put in some hate for the stuff you really have trouble with - like in my case boggles. Most of the other stuff in my meta isn't too troublesome.
Engineered Explosives is good to bring in if its the only option you have against this deck, but I would by no means include it in the "having problems with boggles and need an answer" category. That was my point.
Engineered Explosives at 2 is probably better than 1 anyway because of the resilience of the 1cmc stuff - what you really want to get is daybreak coronet and even kor spiritdancer or spirit mantle (although your other removal kills kor spiritdancer easily). Celestial Flare just solves all the problems. Also, I too can see its usefulness against Jund. Who cares if it doesnt hit DRS or Bob - every other spell we have does and those spells have a hard time with goyf except path. Also kills opposing celestial colonnades pretty darn good.
Modern: RGB Dredge // RBG Goblins // B The Gate // UBR Tezz AoB Control // RBG Prison Pox
EDH: RBU Thraximundar // R Norin the Wary // RWB Kaalia of the Vast // BUR Grixis Combos // BU Gisa and Geralf Tribal
Tiny Leaders: BUW Sydri, Galvanic Genius // R Feldon of the Third Path
Projects:
Gisa and Geralf Extreme-Tribal EDH
Esper Eldrazi Processor Control
Brewing with Kuldotha Forgemaster
Primer: "The Gate" - Mono Black in Modern
Modern Prison Pox - building a better plague
EE is the much better option. If you face that deck frequently enough that it is a problem, run tempest of light.
Personally, I'm happy with my 2 wear/tear, 1 EE, and 1 Supreme Verdict. But I only face that deck like once in every 3 tournaments or so.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
Rofl by this logic you could also say:
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
If I am expecting a lot of burn/aggro, which of these is the better SB option?
Kitchen Finks
Timely Reinforcements
My gut says Timely Reinforcements because of Snapcaster, but Finks is so versatile.
Or if there is a better card all together, let me know.
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I think that the big difference between those two arguments is that Bogles boards don't typically run Needle. They do run Stony Silence and/or Suppression Field, but neither those cards nor Needle are consistent inclusions. Leyline, on the other hand, is an auto-include staple in the Bogles board, so I would be hesitant to bank that matchup on a card I know they will have in their sideboard.
Both are good options. I would go with Timely because of Snapcaster, as you said. It also has a better mana cost in case you're facing a Blood Moon.
They play 4-of Pithing Needle in the sideboard? That's pretty cool. I also heard if you start the game with Pithing Needle in your hand then you can put it into play. Oh wait... I must be thinking of a different card.
I'm a huge fan of Timely Reinforcements. It's great at stalling and that's particularly what we want to do. I even boarded it in against UWR Delver (in UW Tron) when that was a thing, it's really good against Geist actually. The fact that you can flash it back is certainly relevant.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Finks is usually not a very good sb card. Finks is a very good card in and of itself, but if you want to sideboard lifegain against a specific matchup timely is so much better. Other stuff like kor firewalker comes to mind as well, which function much better than finks against the matchup you would board them in.
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
I don't play WUR, but I do play against Boogles with other decks. I would run Spellskite before Celestial Flare, since it also helps in other matchups (Burn, blocking and turning their bolts into shocks, and Scapeshift, eating all the Valatuk triggers). It's also good vs Infect for the same reasons, and depending on the decklist you can board vs Affinity if they run Champion ('kite eats modular counters too). It's also quite good vs Twin, since it can interact with Pestermite and Splinter Twin itself (but no with Exarch and Kiki)
I think I'd be quite confident if I didn't even run it in my SB at a big event.
More testing is needed, of course.
Are you suggesting they are actually going to EXPECT Celestial Flare? Whatever, point is moot. The guy asked for a card that was good vs Bogles and was thankful for the answer of Celestial Flare. I could say here UWR Midrange is a great deck and derps would tell me I'm wrong just to argue a point.
Keyword is good. It's only good under certain unreasonable circumstances. In some scenarios the card is actually completely dead. And it's not as if these are just scenarios we pulled out of nowhere, it's based on a card they play and will bring in against us. It would be the same thing as if Affinity decided no white player would bring in Stony Silence.
Also, I wouldn't assume the opposite, they they would expect no Celestial Flare. I like to give credit to an opponent and it is sill a card they should be aware of. They should know it exists and be mindful of it.
I can argue anything for the sake of arguing, but I prefer to argue something for the reason that I believe it's wrong in some way.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
No one is arguing a point. It's been a very nice discussion. Don't ruin that. Celestial Flare is a complete game winning card against Boggles, everyone agrees with that point. But there is a reason that Boggles dedicates four (4!!) sideboard slots to Leyline of Sanctity, her name is Liliana of the Veil. Celestial Flare gets caught up in the crossfire towards their hate against Liliana.
If I'm playing Boggles I'm bringing in Leyline of Sanctity against UWR Control/Midrange. Burn is a very viable wincon for both decks, and limiting wincons is a very real strategy. It puts a whole lot of dead cards in our deck.
Those are 2 very good reasons why you shouldn't be running Celestial Flare.
Stone Rain vs Molten Rain, which one do you guys like more? Is the 2 damage worth the extra R casting cost? Sometimes 1RR is difficult to put together in a 3 color deck, and other times it's not. I can't make up my mind.
In my uninformed opinion I don't think I'd side in leyline vs a potential 1 of in a uwr deck. blanking burn is irrelevant since bogles can easily race burn, and the uwr player should cut some of the electrolyzes since they don't do anything. I'd rather have a more consistent deck.
I don't think i'd side in leyline unless I saw 2 flares in game 2.