A couple of things that I would look for would be Insidious Dreams, which can let you stack the top of your deck with lots of goodies for Jeleva, and Soothsaying, which can be used to rearrange the top of your deck and even shuffle, if you need to. Those are both inexpensive cards that should work beautifully in your deck. A less budget option is Scroll Rack. It'll let you put stuff you want under Jeleva from your hand, onto the top of your library. It also pairs will with Soothsaying, because you can shuffle away cards that you don't need.
Another thing to look at is your curve. I know Jeleva begs for bomb instants/sorceries, but they are going to be worth nothing if they're just sitting in your hand, uncastable. I'm not sure what kind of meta you deal with, but dropping some of the huge stuff for more utility wouldn't be a bad idea.
On another note:
I got a sexy new banner from InkFox Aesthetics! He does some really great work.
I was stopping by to check out how the banner looked, but thought I'd chip in on Jeleva's ability to be a commander:
A Commander deck does not need to depend on it's Commander to win. A Commander can simply compliment the rest of the deck. This is how my Ghost Council of Orzhova deck is built - it's extra utility in a deck based around plays with my graveyard, but is not necessary to win. Personally I prefer the Commander to compliment the deck rather than run it, as that feels narrow to me. Jeleva is a perfect fit for a resource denial deck, and I've been playing with the pre-con myself. Often times in my second main phase or before it comes back around to my turn again, I'll even purposefully destroy her myself for the sake of re-casting her to exile 6, 8, 10 or even 12 cards later on. Since she casts the instants and sorceries for free on attack, I'll gladly throw her at someone to cast a spell that doesn't make much different yet, knowing they may well block her and that means I'll be able to exile more cards next turn. Oftentimes, I get to play some powerful cards after exiling so many. When I don't, it's still really nice to exile powerful cards they could use against you, otherwise.
I have to say playing a free Cruel Ultimatum with her and cloning it with a Mirari can be pretty brutal.
Also, huge props for the inclusion of Insidious Dreams, as it's one of my favorite John Avon pieces and now I have to go track one down.
I was stopping by to check out how the banner looked, but thought I'd chip in on Jeleva's ability to be a commander:
A Commander deck does not need to depend on it's Commander to win. A Commander can simply compliment the rest of the deck. This is how my Ghost Council of Orzhova deck is built - it's extra utility in a deck based around plays with my graveyard, but is not necessary to win. Personally I prefer the Commander to compliment the deck rather than run it, as that feels narrow to me. Jeleva is a perfect fit for a resource denial deck, and I've been playing with the pre-con myself. Often times in my second main phase or before it comes back around to my turn again, I'll even purposefully destroy her myself for the sake of re-casting her to exile 6, 8, 10 or even 12 cards later on. Since she casts the instants and sorceries for free on attack, I'll gladly throw her at someone to cast a spell that doesn't make much different yet, knowing they may well block her and that means I'll be able to exile more cards next turn. Oftentimes, I get to play some powerful cards after exiling so many. When I don't, it's still really nice to exile powerful cards they could use against you, otherwise.
I have to say playing a free Cruel Ultimatum with her and cloning it with a Mirari can be pretty brutal.
Also, huge props for the inclusion of Insidious Dreams, as it's one of my favorite John Avon pieces and now I have to go track one down.
Thanks for the comments, Xen. This sums up how I feel about Commander decks, too. I want the general to do powerful things, but I want the deck to be equally capable of powerful plays without it. Out of the few games I've gotten to play with this deck, I've actually eliminated two players, in separate games, by recasting Jeleva, exiling the last of their library, and passing turn. It's very rewarding.
If I were to play a spellslinger style of Jeleva, those two cards would more than like make the cut.
Dreams is a must for the spell-heavy Jeleva builds. Too good not to include. And if I were running it, I'd have asked you to put that art in the banner you made for me.
Now for something completely different: Deck changes!
I like Quandry, because once everyone's hands are down to a single card, they must take the life loss if they cast it. That said, it does paint a pretty big target on your head. I dunno why. I replaced it with Words, due to that stacking with Geth's Grimoire. You can draw a ton of cards and use some of the triggers to strip more cards from people's hands, which gives you more draw triggers. It's a beautiful synergy.
O-Stone is back! I needed more sweepers, after catching a lot of beatdown this past week. I'm pretty :symb:-heavy, so I switched a Mountain for a Swamp. I wanted to vary my ramp, so the Bauble got tossed in for the F-Stone. I decided that Teferi's effect wasn't as necessary as the versatility that Post affords me. Post is one of my favorite cards in EDH, simply for that fact.
O-Stone is back! I needed more sweepers, after catching a lot of beatdown this past week. I'm pretty :symb:-heavy, so I switched a Mountain for a Swamp. I wanted to vary my ramp, so the Bauble got tossed in for the F-Stone. I decided that Teferi's effect wasn't as necessary as the versatility that Post affords me. Post is one of my favorite cards in EDH, simply for that fact.
Since you're really heavy in black, have you thought about adding Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of another Swamp?
Since you're really heavy in black, have you thought about adding Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of another Swamp?
I would, but it would help other decks in my meta, more so than mine. I prefer not to make it easier for them to abuse their Cabal Coffers. If that wasn't a concern, it would be in there.
I've been letting this deck rest for a while, but I'm ready to sit down and work out what direction I want to go with this deck. Things I'm considering:
Uba Mask- Turns Wheel of Fortune, and all hand cycling cards, into another exile effect. Plus, it limits the time that opponents can benefit from their "extra" cards.
Infinite mana combos- Something I've tossed around is trying to cast Jeleva enough times to simply pass the turn, after exiling everyone's libraries. To do that, I would most like need infinite mana. I think the only way I could accomplish this is through Palincron, plus either Deadeye Navigator or Phantasmal Image/Phyrexian Metamorph. This would also require...
More sac outlets- I already run High Market, but room could be made for things like Miren, the Moaning Well, Phyrexian Altar, and/or Ashnod's Altar. Out of the two altars, I'd prefer Ashnod's. The syncs up nicely with the commander tax. Another point for it, over Phyrexian Altar, is that I own one already.
Other things I'm considering-More wheel effects and Leyline of the Void, to aid in the exiling efforts. I would also need to run Laboratory Maniac as an alternate win con.
I may cut some of the discard spells, but that's ok. That direction was getting tons of (not-unwaranted) hate. This way may generate just as much, if not more, hate, but that might not matter. I will (potentially) be better-equipped to deal with it.
so i have been trying to get input on a Mill/Control idea i had for this deck. i started a thread for it and it seems to have just died so i wanted to post here in hopes to get some input on my deck and different idea i was having.
this is the second version of this deck after the input i did get
i was also wondering why i see so few decks running Nightveil Specter is his ability not good enough to see play in this deck. i think he could see some play since he makes you exile cards from a players library and you can cast them if able.
i am also looking at maybe running Melek, Izzet Paragon since he give you the ability to see whats coming up next and casting it before you draw into it or being able to have another card in the deck that lets you see if you wanna exile cards with jeleva and her casting her.
i still havent been able to play test this deck yet but hopefully i will have a chance to play it in the coming weeks.
I've been letting this deck rest for a while, but I'm ready to sit down and work out what direction I want to go with this deck. Things I'm considering:
Uba Mask- Turns Wheel of Fortune, and all hand cycling cards, into another exile effect. Plus, it limits the time that opponents can benefit from their "extra" cards.
Infinite mana combos- Something I've tossed around is trying to cast Jeleva enough times to simply pass the turn, after exiling everyone's libraries. To do that, I would most like need infinite mana. I think the only way I could accomplish this is through Palincron, plus either Deadeye Navigator or Phantasmal Image/Phyrexian Metamorph. This would also require...
More sac outlets- I already run High Market, but room could be made for things like Miren, the Moaning Well, Phyrexian Altar, and/or Ashnod's Altar. Out of the two altars, I'd prefer Ashnod's. The syncs up nicely with the commander tax. Another point for it, over Phyrexian Altar, is that I own one already.
Other things I'm considering-More wheel effects and Leyline of the Void, to aid in the exiling efforts. I would also need to run Laboratory Maniac as an alternate win con.
I may cut some of the discard spells, but that's ok. That direction was getting tons of (not-unwaranted) hate. This way may generate just as much, if not more, hate, but that might not matter. I will (potentially) be better-equipped to deal with it.
Those are some interesting card choices to look at. Is your theme for the deck going forward one of exiling rather than discard? I ask since Jeleva can only cast spells she's exiled herself. It seems like a decent strategy given the amount of EDH decks that use the graveyard as a resource.
@ablack23:
You have a very solid base for a spell slinger-style Jeleva deck. Melek wouldn't be a bad addition, for the reasons you've already gone over. I suggest putting a Strionic Resonator in your deck. It is an auto-include, if ever there were one, for Jeleva decks. It can double her casting trigger, netting you twice the cards exiled, and give you double her attack triggers. It would also double Melek's trigger, too.
As for Nightveil Specter: The reason he doesn't see play in EDH is that you're not guaranteed to gain advantage from it. Most players aren't willing to devote a slot on a creature that could gain you little to no advantage. His single card exile is negligible in this format, as opposed to Standard. And even if you exiled something you could cast, you still have to have mana open to do so.
@Xen:
That's the general direction I'm going in. I might keep some of the discard, but that might be as simple disruption. I realize that I won't be able to cast cards that aren't exiled by her, but that was never the main point of this deck. I want to focus on her exile as the decks wincon. It might be harder to win that way, but it might be easier. I need to get some more cards and start testing.
Also, if I do go that route, would you be willing to make me a new banner? I don't think I could stand one from anybody else.
@ablack23:
You have a very solid base for a spell slinger-style Jeleva deck. Melek wouldn't be a bad addition, for the reasons you've already gone over. I suggest putting a Strionic Resonator in your deck. It is an auto-include, if ever there were one, for Jeleva decks. It can double her casting trigger, netting you twice the cards exiled, and give you double her attack triggers. It would also double Melek's trigger, too.
As for Nightveil Specter: The reason he doesn't see play in EDH is that you're not guaranteed to gain advantage from it. Most players aren't willing to devote a slot on a creature that could gain you little to no advantage. His single card exile is negligible in this format, as opposed to Standard. And even if you exiled something you could cast, you still have to have mana open to do so.
@Xen:
That's the general direction I'm going in. I might keep some of the discard, but that might be as simple disruption. I realize that I won't be able to cast cards that aren't exiled by her, but that was never the main point of this deck. I want to focus on her exile as the decks wincon. It might be harder to win that way, but it might be easier. I need to get some more cards and start testing.
Also, if I do go that route, would you be willing to make me a new banner? I don't think I could stand one from anybody else.
thanks for the input i actually picked up a Strionic Resonator to add into i earlier today. so yeah that will be going in.
as for the Nightveil Specter thanks for the input on him. i will probably omit him from the list then.
now how do you feel about the little bit of mill in the deck. im thinking it may not work well after reading all the different threads. but i do like how its not my main win con and since i mostly play multiplayer or two headed giant it would have to be copied to target more than won player. but its just there for disruption.
thanks for the input i actually picked up a Strionic Resonator to add into i earlier today. so yeah that will be going in.
as for the Nightveil Specter thanks for the input on him. i will probably omit him from the list then.
now how do you feel about the little bit of mill in the deck. im thinking it may not work well after reading all the different threads. but i do like how its not my main win con and since i mostly play multiplayer or two headed giant it would have to be copied to target more than won player. but its just there for disruption.
If your meta has a lot of graveyard-based decks, it can be a liability. You'll be helping, more than hurting them. Things like Traumatize, Jace, Memory Adept (his zero ability), and Mind Funeral only hit one player, which makes them weak choices. You'd be better off putting some different disruption in there, like one of my personal favorites: Stranglehold. Even Torpor Orb would be a good inclusion. Aside from a couple of creatures, you aren't relying on enter-the-battlefield effects. Thus, it won't hurt you, as much as it would your opponents.
Some counterspells might be a good inclusion, too. I see a couple, but no Hinder/Spell Crumple. Some extra ways to just say "No!"
If your meta has a lot of graveyard-based decks, it can be a liability. You'll be helping, more than hurting them. Things like Traumatize, Jace, Memory Adept (his zero ability), and Mind Funeral only hit one player, which makes them weak choices. You'd be better off putting some different disruption in there, like one of my personal favorites: Stranglehold. Even Torpor Orb would be a good inclusion. Aside from a couple of creatures, you aren't relying on enter-the-battlefield effects. Thus, it won't hurt you, as much as it would your opponents.
Some counterspells might be a good inclusion, too. I see a couple, but no Hinder/Spell Crumple. Some extra ways to just say "No!"
my play group is pretty simple. it would hurt if i started milling the right person i could screw up his whole deck. but beyond my play group i dont know if it would work well since i usually play in big groups and they all run lock down or combo decks that pop off quick
i was looking at counter spells like spell crumple i was originally looking at running counter spells but ive been told it may not work well since you might exile them and only be able to use them after attacking. so i removed a lot of the counters i had and replaced them with other cards.
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Another thing to look at is your curve. I know Jeleva begs for bomb instants/sorceries, but they are going to be worth nothing if they're just sitting in your hand, uncastable. I'm not sure what kind of meta you deal with, but dropping some of the huge stuff for more utility wouldn't be a bad idea.
On another note:
I got a sexy new banner from InkFox Aesthetics! He does some really great work.
Rafiq | Jeleva | Zedruu
Brion | Vela
Talrand | Erebos
Otherworld Atlas Collection
4 Foil/ 17 Normal/ 0 Signed
My avatar is Disappointing!
A Commander deck does not need to depend on it's Commander to win. A Commander can simply compliment the rest of the deck. This is how my Ghost Council of Orzhova deck is built - it's extra utility in a deck based around plays with my graveyard, but is not necessary to win. Personally I prefer the Commander to compliment the deck rather than run it, as that feels narrow to me. Jeleva is a perfect fit for a resource denial deck, and I've been playing with the pre-con myself. Often times in my second main phase or before it comes back around to my turn again, I'll even purposefully destroy her myself for the sake of re-casting her to exile 6, 8, 10 or even 12 cards later on. Since she casts the instants and sorceries for free on attack, I'll gladly throw her at someone to cast a spell that doesn't make much different yet, knowing they may well block her and that means I'll be able to exile more cards next turn. Oftentimes, I get to play some powerful cards after exiling so many. When I don't, it's still really nice to exile powerful cards they could use against you, otherwise.
I have to say playing a free Cruel Ultimatum with her and cloning it with a Mirari can be pretty brutal.
Also, huge props for the inclusion of Insidious Dreams, as it's one of my favorite John Avon pieces and now I have to go track one down.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Thanks for the comments, Xen. This sums up how I feel about Commander decks, too. I want the general to do powerful things, but I want the deck to be equally capable of powerful plays without it. Out of the few games I've gotten to play with this deck, I've actually eliminated two players, in separate games, by recasting Jeleva, exiling the last of their library, and passing turn. It's very rewarding.
If I were to play a spellslinger style of Jeleva, those two cards would more than like make the cut.
Dreams is a must for the spell-heavy Jeleva builds. Too good not to include. And if I were running it, I'd have asked you to put that art in the banner you made for me.
Now for something completely different: Deck changes!
Out:
1 Painful Quandry
In:
1 Words of Waste
I like Quandry, because once everyone's hands are down to a single card, they must take the life loss if they cast it. That said, it does paint a pretty big target on your head. I dunno why. I replaced it with Words, due to that stacking with Geth's Grimoire. You can draw a ton of cards and use some of the triggers to strip more cards from people's hands, which gives you more draw triggers. It's a beautiful synergy.
Rafiq | Jeleva | Zedruu
Brion | Vela
Talrand | Erebos
Otherworld Atlas Collection
4 Foil/ 17 Normal/ 0 Signed
My avatar is Disappointing!
Mountain
Fellwar Stone
Praetor's Grasp
Geth's Grimoire
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
In:
Swamp
Wayfarer's Bauble
Oblivion Stone
Rhystic Study
Trading Post
O-Stone is back! I needed more sweepers, after catching a lot of beatdown this past week. I'm pretty :symb:-heavy, so I switched a Mountain for a Swamp. I wanted to vary my ramp, so the Bauble got tossed in for the F-Stone. I decided that Teferi's effect wasn't as necessary as the versatility that Post affords me. Post is one of my favorite cards in EDH, simply for that fact.
Rafiq | Jeleva | Zedruu
Brion | Vela
Talrand | Erebos
Otherworld Atlas Collection
4 Foil/ 17 Normal/ 0 Signed
My avatar is Disappointing!
Since you're really heavy in black, have you thought about adding Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth instead of another Swamp?
(Also known as Xenphire)
I would, but it would help other decks in my meta, more so than mine. I prefer not to make it easier for them to abuse their Cabal Coffers. If that wasn't a concern, it would be in there.
Rafiq | Jeleva | Zedruu
Brion | Vela
Talrand | Erebos
Otherworld Atlas Collection
4 Foil/ 17 Normal/ 0 Signed
My avatar is Disappointing!
Uba Mask- Turns Wheel of Fortune, and all hand cycling cards, into another exile effect. Plus, it limits the time that opponents can benefit from their "extra" cards.
Infinite mana combos- Something I've tossed around is trying to cast Jeleva enough times to simply pass the turn, after exiling everyone's libraries. To do that, I would most like need infinite mana. I think the only way I could accomplish this is through Palincron, plus either Deadeye Navigator or Phantasmal Image/Phyrexian Metamorph. This would also require...
More sac outlets- I already run High Market, but room could be made for things like Miren, the Moaning Well, Phyrexian Altar, and/or Ashnod's Altar. Out of the two altars, I'd prefer Ashnod's. The syncs up nicely with the commander tax. Another point for it, over Phyrexian Altar, is that I own one already.
Other things I'm considering-More wheel effects and Leyline of the Void, to aid in the exiling efforts. I would also need to run Laboratory Maniac as an alternate win con.
I may cut some of the discard spells, but that's ok. That direction was getting tons of (not-unwaranted) hate. This way may generate just as much, if not more, hate, but that might not matter. I will (potentially) be better-equipped to deal with it.
Rafiq | Jeleva | Zedruu
Brion | Vela
Talrand | Erebos
Otherworld Atlas Collection
4 Foil/ 17 Normal/ 0 Signed
My avatar is Disappointing!
this is the second version of this deck after the input i did get
1 Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
Creatures
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Meletis Charlatan
1 Guttersnip
1 Consuming Aberration
1 Nivix Guildmage
1 Baleful Strix
1 Nemesis of Reason
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Charmbreaker Devils
1 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Tempt with Reflections
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Windfall
1 Illusinist's Gambit
1 Spin into Myth
1 Fissure Vent
1 Cryptic Command
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Bibery
1 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Army of the Damned
1 Decree of Pain
1 Infest
1 Traumatize
1 Strategic Planning
1 Vision Skeins
1 Wild Ricochet
1 Incendiary Command
1 Mind Grind
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Crosis's Charm
1 Grixis Charm
1 Mind Funeral
1 Damnation
1 Molten Disaster
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Vandalblast
1 Bitter Ordeal
1 Dimir Charm
1 Izzet Charm
1 Disperse
1 Boomerang
1 Recoil
1 All is Dust
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Increasing Vengeance
1 Plague Wind
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
1 Jace, Memory Adept
Artifacts
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Mirari
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Temple Bell
1 Sol Ring
1 Gem of Becoming
Enchantments
1 Spiteful Visions
1 Arcane Melee
1 Propaganda
Lands
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Island
1 Blood Crypt
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Underground River
1 Tainted Isle
1 Sulfurous Springs
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Vivid Crag
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Halimar Depths
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Graven Cairns
1 Watery Grave
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Steam Vents
1 Shivan Reef
1 Strip Mine
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Temple of Deceit
1 Command Tower
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Opal Palace
1 Badlands
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Temple of the False God
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Vivid Creek
1 Rupture Spire
i was also wondering why i see so few decks running Nightveil Specter is his ability not good enough to see play in this deck. i think he could see some play since he makes you exile cards from a players library and you can cast them if able.
i am also looking at maybe running Melek, Izzet Paragon since he give you the ability to see whats coming up next and casting it before you draw into it or being able to have another card in the deck that lets you see if you wanna exile cards with jeleva and her casting her.
i still havent been able to play test this deck yet but hopefully i will have a chance to play it in the coming weeks.
Those are some interesting card choices to look at. Is your theme for the deck going forward one of exiling rather than discard? I ask since Jeleva can only cast spells she's exiled herself. It seems like a decent strategy given the amount of EDH decks that use the graveyard as a resource.
(Also known as Xenphire)
You have a very solid base for a spell slinger-style Jeleva deck. Melek wouldn't be a bad addition, for the reasons you've already gone over. I suggest putting a Strionic Resonator in your deck. It is an auto-include, if ever there were one, for Jeleva decks. It can double her casting trigger, netting you twice the cards exiled, and give you double her attack triggers. It would also double Melek's trigger, too.
As for Nightveil Specter: The reason he doesn't see play in EDH is that you're not guaranteed to gain advantage from it. Most players aren't willing to devote a slot on a creature that could gain you little to no advantage. His single card exile is negligible in this format, as opposed to Standard. And even if you exiled something you could cast, you still have to have mana open to do so.
@Xen:
That's the general direction I'm going in. I might keep some of the discard, but that might be as simple disruption. I realize that I won't be able to cast cards that aren't exiled by her, but that was never the main point of this deck. I want to focus on her exile as the decks wincon. It might be harder to win that way, but it might be easier. I need to get some more cards and start testing.
Also, if I do go that route, would you be willing to make me a new banner? I don't think I could stand one from anybody else.
Rafiq | Jeleva | Zedruu
Brion | Vela
Talrand | Erebos
Otherworld Atlas Collection
4 Foil/ 17 Normal/ 0 Signed
My avatar is Disappointing!
thanks for the input i actually picked up a Strionic Resonator to add into i earlier today. so yeah that will be going in.
as for the Nightveil Specter thanks for the input on him. i will probably omit him from the list then.
now how do you feel about the little bit of mill in the deck. im thinking it may not work well after reading all the different threads. but i do like how its not my main win con and since i mostly play multiplayer or two headed giant it would have to be copied to target more than won player. but its just there for disruption.
If your meta has a lot of graveyard-based decks, it can be a liability. You'll be helping, more than hurting them. Things like Traumatize, Jace, Memory Adept (his zero ability), and Mind Funeral only hit one player, which makes them weak choices. You'd be better off putting some different disruption in there, like one of my personal favorites: Stranglehold. Even Torpor Orb would be a good inclusion. Aside from a couple of creatures, you aren't relying on enter-the-battlefield effects. Thus, it won't hurt you, as much as it would your opponents.
Some counterspells might be a good inclusion, too. I see a couple, but no Hinder/Spell Crumple. Some extra ways to just say "No!"
Rafiq | Jeleva | Zedruu
Brion | Vela
Talrand | Erebos
Otherworld Atlas Collection
4 Foil/ 17 Normal/ 0 Signed
My avatar is Disappointing!
my play group is pretty simple. it would hurt if i started milling the right person i could screw up his whole deck. but beyond my play group i dont know if it would work well since i usually play in big groups and they all run lock down or combo decks that pop off quick
i was looking at counter spells like spell crumple i was originally looking at running counter spells but ive been told it may not work well since you might exile them and only be able to use them after attacking. so i removed a lot of the counters i had and replaced them with other cards.