First of all, I created a thread for this because I find that this is a really important news, so it have to be said out loud, and not just as a post on the Megathread.
So, the new changes from the Duel Commander official site are:
Personally, I see Oloro and Maelstrom Wanderer, along with Mono Black Combo (Grizzy, Iname or Skittles) and especially Marath becoming the new T1 of this format. Surely we'll see also a big return of Clique, Geist and Wydwen, now that the "Derevi Panic" is passed.
Thumbs up for ban of Natural Order and Derevi, not sure about Oath and Zur, but imho Grim Monolith was no problem at all in this format. Maybe I can undestand the ban of this last one for limiting the power of MW and Griselbrand in the new format, though.
EDIT: Oh, and also Jenara takes again her throne of "The Bant Lady"
Format is becoming a joke. Mile long ban list, and in a 6 months, we will be banning the new best commander!
Was really hoping for the institution of sideboards this update.
I'm in this boat. I feel like creating a SB rule would help make the format much more stable and self-regulating, taking a ton of pressure off the banlist. Hopefully next time.
I feel like a SB rule would help the issues here. Because of G/W decks, I have to play Dystopia in my Mono-black deck, when it should be a SB card.... but they are so nasty that it can be a play it or lose type situation.
I feel like a SB rule would help the issues here. Because of G/W decks, I have to play Dystopia in my Mono-black deck, when it should be a SB card.... but they are so nasty that it can be a play it or lose type situation.
But hey, it's great to pitch for Unmask in those situations!
And with that we will be creating an American Duel Commander. Information will be forthcoming. Time for the largest population of players to control the format.
And with that we will be creating an American Duel Commander. Information will be forthcoming. Time for the largest population of players to control the format.
wut..... ??? this post is so distasteful.. I hope this is sarcasm
And with that we will be creating an American Duel Commander. Information will be forthcoming. Time for the largest population of players to control the format.
I'm a little bit surprised that Derevi went so fast. Not that it got banned--I think long term that was warranted--but the speed. It took the committee forever to ban Edric, which was somewhat similar to and definitely stronger and more dominant than Derevi.
Has Grim Monolith ever actually been a problematic card? I get the idea of banning mana artifacts that would be considered too strong to print today, but very few decks ran Grim Monolith to begin with.
There are a number of more powerful cards than these that are not banned and if you just start banning everything that is powerful than no one will play in tournaments and it will remain a game for those around a kitchen table
You mean like it was meant to be, before Wizards began supporting it and causing it to garner attention?
Derevi ban wut? It's only been around for like 3 months...
Everything else is good. I've been spamming Zur under an alternate account on Cockatrice and the deck is just stupid. It has so many good matchups and very few bad ones. I'm happy to finally see Zur done once and for all.
Everything else is fine except maybe adding Sylvan Library or Survival (and this is coming from a mostly green player)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
French EDH BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB B Braids, Cabal Minion B G Titania, Protector of Argoth G R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us My Street Art
I think it's time to reopen the discussion of sideboards.
My group has been playing with sideboards for its entire tenure, and they seriously improve the game. I've had this argument with people here a few times, and everyone is bafflingly opposed to them despite their obvious necessity in any one-on-one format.
The Zur ban makes them even more desirable, since Zur disproportionately benefits from it. (And I'm a Zur player.)
And with that we will be creating an American Duel Commander. Information will be forthcoming. Time for the largest population of players to control the format.
Lol, because the best way to improve a newborn format is to scrap it and create a copy of it controlled by other people, that are a minority of the players of the format. We have an idea here.
Even if someone is disappointed for the new banlist, I'm sure that the RC of Duelcommander have tested and over-tested the format with the new changes, so I'm not worried about it.
About the sideboard question, are they really worth it? Having a sideboard means you'll put inside of it something like 3-4 cards for each matchup (Dunno, Dystopia, Death Mark, Lifebane Zombie and another wrath against GWx, for example).
My opinion is that sideboard isn't a good idea because, while permitting more "strategic" builds and meta adaptation, it would penalize the decks that cannot pack tutors for the sided cards, like G based aggro (Radha and friends), while black could have game-winning answers for 2 or 3 mana with tutors. And generally, the chances of DRAW a card you sided in without tutoring for it are very low, while this isn't true in the other formats where sideboard is legal.
Now I wish I didn't win so many matches with Derevi on Cockatrice.....I really think it deserved more time in a world without Zur eating its bad match-ups.
When people originally told me there was a ban list for 1v1 Commander, I thought they were joking. Now that I see there is legitimately an attempt to make one, I feel...weird. This seems like something that doesn't need to exist with the creation of House Rules in regular Commander, and the list itself (including the new bans) seems wonky with some really weird bans and unbans. I'll just say that if someone else wants to give it a shot, go for it. It would at least be another interesting read. But just like before I saw this thread, I will not be following this list.
When people originally told me there was a ban list for 1v1 Commander, I thought they were joking. Now that I see there is legitimately an attempt to make one, I feel...weird. This seems like something that doesn't need to exist with the creation of House Rules in regular Commander, and the list itself (including the new bans) seems wonky with some really weird bans and unbans. I'll just say that if someone else wants to give it a shot, go for it. It would at least be another interesting read. But just like before I saw this thread, I will not be following this list.
What do you think is "wonky" about the banlist? There's no question that it is more logical and well-reasoned that the RC banlist, whatever your banning philosophy. And of course different cards are problematic in 1v1 than in multiplayer. (Edric would very likely not be banned in a competitive multiplayer environment, e.g.)
I'm sure that the RC of Duelcommander have tested and over-tested the format with the new changes, so I'm not worried about it.
Yeah... I'm sure they have time for this...
Quote from DuelCommander.com »
As you may have heard recently, the committee is currently composed of four people. While we do our best to test a lot and to be present on as many large tournaments as our personal schedules enable us, days have only 24 hours.
4 people are probably better than thousands of people actually trying to adapt to a new meta. Banning the 2 best generals at the same time? Wow. I wonder how much time they put into the format WITH Derevi and WITHOUT Zuur, because there is no actual top-8 that could help to determine what would be the meta in such case. All could be done is assumptions.
And Grim Monolith, seriously? They playtested the format w/o Zuur and Derevi and that's the conclusion? Monolith is too strong? Wow... we should ban Basalt Monolith too now that we're at it. On what is this really based? All decks using it aren't warping the format at the moment of the ban. So it can only be based on the assumption that it would warp the format with Zuur and Derevi banned.
4 people versus the whole duel EDH world. How could 4 people be better at playtesting the meta than the whole rest of us? That's impossible. Even 10 or 20 people. You need more datas.
And why is Zuur so good anyway? There were still key cards to ban in the first place. There are a lot of them. I can't stand playing this format when you ban Edric, Zuur, Derevi and cards like Sensei and Natural Order but not Sylvan Library or Survival of the Fittest.
I guess you really want 2 cards combo to win in the format, like Helm-RIP or even Mikaeus-Triskellion. We will start playing Oloro packed with tutors and those combos and just try to win from there, also winning life every turn.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
So, the new changes from the Duel Commander official site are:
Zur the Enchanter is banned as a Commander
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician is banned as a Commander
Grim Monolith is banned
Natural Order is banned
Oath of Druids is banned
Vanishing is unbanned
Personally, I see Oloro and Maelstrom Wanderer, along with Mono Black Combo (Grizzy, Iname or Skittles) and especially Marath becoming the new T1 of this format. Surely we'll see also a big return of Clique, Geist and Wydwen, now that the "Derevi Panic" is passed.
Thumbs up for ban of Natural Order and Derevi, not sure about Oath and Zur, but imho Grim Monolith was no problem at all in this format. Maybe I can undestand the ban of this last one for limiting the power of MW and Griselbrand in the new format, though.
EDIT: Oh, and also Jenara takes again her throne of "The Bant Lady"
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Duel Commander
URG [Primer] Maelstrom Wanderer [Primer] URG
Duel Commander Current Projects:
RGWMarath, Will of the WildRGW
BRXMogis, God of SlaughterBRX
RWxIoras, God of VictoryRWx
WBxAthreos, God of PassageWBx
Created By: DarkNightCavalier
Was really hoping for the institution of sideboards this update.
I'm in this boat. I feel like creating a SB rule would help make the format much more stable and self-regulating, taking a ton of pressure off the banlist. Hopefully next time.
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
(Also known as Xenphire)
Modern
No clue
RIP Twin
MTGS Olde Name:
Hruen (apparently it was taken, probably by me about 10 years ago.........)
Basically this... I'm starting to dislike this format. Can't wait to find out what other cards I can't use in 3 months.
Thank you so much mchief111 for the amazing art!
BUG is the Jund of EDH!
Modern: Jund, Grixis Delver, Bant Eldrazi, TitanShift
Commander: Brago, Yidris, Mizzix, Marath, Atheros, Daretti
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyBut hey, it's great to pitch for Unmask in those situations!
Looking at the bright side.
(R/W)WRAnax and Cymede: RW AggroRW(R/W)
WWWThalia, Guardian of Thraben: White Weenie AggroWWW
BUGThe Mimeoplasm: Graveyard ComboGUB
(W/B)BWAthreos, God of Passage: Orzhov ShinnanigansBW(W/B)
a card border extended by me, commissions are open.
(Multiplayer)
BRGKarrthus, Tyrant of Jund
WUBSharuum the Hegemon
(American 1v1)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking Grave
WUGDerevi
wut..... ??? this post is so distasteful.. I hope this is sarcasm
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Doublepost my bad
Sexy Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios
EDH
G Isao
Has Grim Monolith ever actually been a problematic card? I get the idea of banning mana artifacts that would be considered too strong to print today, but very few decks ran Grim Monolith to begin with.
You mean like it was meant to be, before Wizards began supporting it and causing it to garner attention?
(Also known as Xenphire)
Everything else is good. I've been spamming Zur under an alternate account on Cockatrice and the deck is just stupid. It has so many good matchups and very few bad ones. I'm happy to finally see Zur done once and for all.
Everything else is fine except maybe adding Sylvan Library or Survival (and this is coming from a mostly green player)
BRGW Saskia the Unyielding BRGW
GUWB Thrasios, Triton Hero // Tymna the Weaver GUWB
B Braids, Cabal Minion B
G Titania, Protector of Argoth G
R Zurgo Bellstriker R
Founding Father of [Team Stepfathers]: We beat you and you hate us
My Street Art
My group has been playing with sideboards for its entire tenure, and they seriously improve the game. I've had this argument with people here a few times, and everyone is bafflingly opposed to them despite their obvious necessity in any one-on-one format.
The Zur ban makes them even more desirable, since Zur disproportionately benefits from it. (And I'm a Zur player.)
Legacy: UBRG Czech Pile, WWW Death & Taxes, many other things
Modern: UBR Grixis, RWG Burn, UR UR Storm, BBB 8 Rack, whatever other control deck I can force
Multiplayer EDH: RR Norin the Wary, UU Barrin, Master Wizard, UB Wrexial, the Risen Deep, GR Borborygmos, Enraged
Lol, because the best way to improve a newborn format is to scrap it and create a copy of it controlled by other people, that are a minority of the players of the format. We have an idea here.
Even if someone is disappointed for the new banlist, I'm sure that the RC of Duelcommander have tested and over-tested the format with the new changes, so I'm not worried about it.
About the sideboard question, are they really worth it? Having a sideboard means you'll put inside of it something like 3-4 cards for each matchup (Dunno, Dystopia, Death Mark, Lifebane Zombie and another wrath against GWx, for example).
My opinion is that sideboard isn't a good idea because, while permitting more "strategic" builds and meta adaptation, it would penalize the decks that cannot pack tutors for the sided cards, like G based aggro (Radha and friends), while black could have game-winning answers for 2 or 3 mana with tutors. And generally, the chances of DRAW a card you sided in without tutoring for it are very low, while this isn't true in the other formats where sideboard is legal.
Just my 2c, hope you agree with me.
What do you think is "wonky" about the banlist? There's no question that it is more logical and well-reasoned that the RC banlist, whatever your banning philosophy. And of course different cards are problematic in 1v1 than in multiplayer. (Edric would very likely not be banned in a competitive multiplayer environment, e.g.)
Yeah... I'm sure they have time for this...
4 people are probably better than thousands of people actually trying to adapt to a new meta. Banning the 2 best generals at the same time? Wow. I wonder how much time they put into the format WITH Derevi and WITHOUT Zuur, because there is no actual top-8 that could help to determine what would be the meta in such case. All could be done is assumptions.
And Grim Monolith, seriously? They playtested the format w/o Zuur and Derevi and that's the conclusion? Monolith is too strong? Wow... we should ban Basalt Monolith too now that we're at it. On what is this really based? All decks using it aren't warping the format at the moment of the ban. So it can only be based on the assumption that it would warp the format with Zuur and Derevi banned.
4 people versus the whole duel EDH world. How could 4 people be better at playtesting the meta than the whole rest of us? That's impossible. Even 10 or 20 people. You need more datas.
And why is Zuur so good anyway? There were still key cards to ban in the first place. There are a lot of them. I can't stand playing this format when you ban Edric, Zuur, Derevi and cards like Sensei and Natural Order but not Sylvan Library or Survival of the Fittest.
I guess you really want 2 cards combo to win in the format, like Helm-RIP or even Mikaeus-Triskellion. We will start playing Oloro packed with tutors and those combos and just try to win from there, also winning life every turn.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.