In other news, someone asked Maro about tuck in commander and he said he doesn't like it.
I seriously wonder if people who dislike tuck play against things like Maelstrom Wanderer and Purphoros, God of the Forge.
People should pay as much attention to MaRo when he talks about EDH as they would a vegan's review of a steakhouse.
Seriously, they guy would be much better off if he never mentioned the format, since he has about zero grasp of why the format works as it does and why it's been successful. It should be enough for him that it is successful and thus gives his company a way to sell more product and market to a different demographic.
People should pay as much attention to MaRo when he talks about EDH as they would a vegan's review of a steakhouse.
Seriously, they guy would be much better off if he never mentioned the format, since he has about zero grasp of why the format works as it does and why it's been successful. It should be enough for him that it is successful and thus gives his company a way to sell more product and market to a different demographic.
I'm not so sure. I don't think it's so clear cut that tuck is a good thing in edh. Many casual decks or general focused deck can get shut down way too easily by tuck with no way to recover other than sheer luck. Annoying cards like porphoros can be dealt with, with exile removal. There's plenty of that. Sure they could just cast him again, but the porphoros player will be behind. Also porphoros isn't all that casual of a deck anyway.
Casual players get hosed more by tuck than it helps, and competitive players have plenty of ways to deal with troublesome commanders other than tuck. So I wouldn't say that Maro has "zero" grasp of the format. That's not really fair.
I'd like to thank a few people for assisting me in some way or another on my quest for a thousand.
Galspanic - For my inaugural suspension. Ripping on Big Bang Theory was never more worthwhile. Letting me play at his house after said suspension was also cool.
Phil - For my ripping on him a little in here, then meeting him and he was such a nice fellow with a leet mustache.
Teia - For...uh...let me get back to you on that.
In summation...this really isn't a big deal at all, but I'm an attention whore and the spotlight is mine for the nonce.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Some say that time is cyclical and that history inevitably repeats. My will is my own. I won't bow to fate."
I'm not so sure. I don't think it's so clear cut that tuck is a good thing in edh. Many casual decks or general focused deck can get shut down way too easily by tuck with no way to recover other than sheer luck. Annoying cards like porphoros can be dealt with, with exile removal. There's plenty of that. Sure they could just cast him again, but the porphoros player will be behind. Also porphoros isn't all that casual of a deck anyway.
If you build your deck so it can't win without your general and it gets tucked you deserve to lose; I don't care whether you're casual, competitive, or an eggplant.
Casual players get hosed more by tuck than it helps, and competitive players have plenty of ways to deal with troublesome commanders other than tuck. So I wouldn't say that Maro has "zero" grasp of the format. That's not really fair.
Hahahahaha no.
Outside of blue, there are not a whole lot of answers to Maelstrom Wanderer. You can't let the damn thing stay on the board because it's obnoxiously huge, but killing it just lets them cascade again. The 2x cascade STILL goes off if it gets countered; there are only a handful of counterspells that stop it. Then it smashes your face again for 7, because apparently 2x cascade wasn't good enough and the damn thing needed haste.
Gods are such a pain in the ass to remove that they generally also need to be tucked.
Actually, any general that is good at killing the table or alpha-striking people is probably better off tucked.
I have never heard an argument for banning tuck that wasn't selfish.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
If you build your deck so it can't win without your general and it gets tucked you deserve to lose; I don't care whether you're casual, competitive, or an eggplant.
Hahahahaha no.
Outside of blue, there are not a whole lot of answers to Maelstrom Wanderer. You can't let the damn thing stay on the board because it's obnoxiously huge, but killing it just lets them cascade again. The 2x cascade STILL goes off if it gets countered; there are only a handful of counterspells that stop it. Then it smashes your face again for 7, because apparently 2x cascade wasn't good enough and the damn thing needed haste.
Gods are such a pain in the ass to remove that they generally also need to be tucked.
Actually, any general that is good at killing the table or alpha-striking people is probably better off tucked.
I have never heard an argument for banning tuck that wasn't selfish.
So the example you use for tuck even in a casual environment is Maelstrom Wanderer? First I don't think anyone could call Maelstrom a casual deck, even if you put jank in it. Second I thought in French they don't have tuck. I could be wrong. If a competitive 1v1 format doesn't need tuck, why would multiplayer? If he is such a problem you can nuke is lands. Without lands/tons of manafacts maelstrom just sits pretty unable to do much since the deck is at such a high curve.
Sadly whenever anyone says anything like I am brought back to Terry the Bi Bipolar Polar Bear.
EDIT: Whoa, that is not what my brain was thinking. There was a character on Queer Duck just named Bipolar Bear. Apparently Terry here is something altogether different. My how my internet niche cartoon references have faded in the last 7 years.
Galspanic - For my inaugural suspension. Ripping on Big Bang Theory was never more worthwhile. Letting me play at his house after said suspension was also cool.
I wish I could have all people I suspend over for beer and cards. It worked out in the end even though the stuff that got you in trouble was classic.
I'm baffled by this too. I don't even see it win on MTGO that much, certainly not enough that I even care about this thing.
Also my most powerful deck auto loses if the commander gets tucked, I must be a baddie.:(
@alblaster: My Wanderer deck is chaos/group hug with no win conditions. I think it qualifies as casual...
@dorino: yes
My Scion deck is at a huge disadvantage if my general gets tucked, but I would never just scoop because my general is gone.
I think there's a difference between saying that you are less likely to win and that you are unable to compete at all.
Surely you have some way of grinding out a win, even in the worst circumstances.
But yes, Ashling 99 mountains deserves to lose against tuck.
@ No one in particular.
Not being able to tuck problem generals does not make you auto-lose, but it does put you at a huge disadvantage when playing against them.
I have never understood why casual players dislike tuck when it's such a great tool against combo and other strategies they hate.
If you don't like tuck you can play counters, tutors, hexproof, and sac outlets; it's not as if you are helpless to stop it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
My Scion deck is at a huge disadvantage if my general gets tucked, but I would never just scoop because my general is gone.
I think there's a difference between saying that you are less likely to win and that you are unable to compete at all.
Surely you have some way of grinding out a win, even in the worst circumstances.
But yes, Ashling 99 mountains deserves to lose against tuck.
@ No one in particular.
Not being able to tuck problem generals does not make you auto-lose, but it does put you at a huge disadvantage when playing against them.
I have never understood why casual players dislike tuck when it's such a great tool against combo and other strategies they hate.
If you don't like tuck you can play counters, tutors, hexproof, and sac outlets; it's not as if you are helpless to stop it.
You don't grind out wins with Zodiac Rabbit, you just don't. I could theoretically draw my only creature tutor and tutor for my commander but that's not going to happen with any kind of consistency.
My Scion deck is at a huge disadvantage if my general gets tucked, but I would never just scoop because my general is gone.
I think there's a difference between saying that you are less likely to win and that you are unable to compete at all.
Surely you have some way of grinding out a win, even in the worst circumstances.
But yes, Ashling 99 mountains deserves to lose against tuck.
@ No one in particular.
Not being able to tuck problem generals does not make you auto-lose, but it does put you at a huge disadvantage when playing against them.
I have never understood why casual players dislike tuck when it's such a great tool against combo and other strategies they hate.
If you don't like tuck you can play counters, tutors, hexproof, and sac outlets; it's not as if you are helpless to stop it.
You don't grind out wins with Zodiac Rabbit, you just don't. I could theoretically draw my only creature tutor and tutor for my commander but that's not going to happen with any kind of consistency.
I just bought a $13 bottle of beer because:
1) Looked good.
2) Sales girl was cute.
3) Felt guilty not buying it after staring at her.
4) All of the above.
I just bought a $13 bottle of beer because:
1) Looked good.
2) Sales girl was cute.
3) Felt guilty not buying it after staring at her.
4) All of the above.
I'm not so sure. I don't think it's so clear cut that tuck is a good thing in edh. Many casual decks or general focused deck can get shut down way too easily by tuck with no way to recover other than sheer luck.
There are troublesome generals that just ruin the chances for other decks to get a grip on things, and exile is really not an answer with all the ramp you see. Also, in my opinion any deck that puts all it's eggs in one basket, like focusing exclusively on the general, should have to fear tuck. It is the classic balance- do you min/max and focus on one aspect to the extent that it is amazingly potent, but open yourself to attacks to your weak areas, or do you spread out your defenses and offenses to some extent and give yourself answers and a plan B (and C), but have a less potent plan A. You should not be able to have both, and if you can then the format is in trouble.
So the example you use for tuck even in a casual environment is Maelstrom Wanderer? First I don't think anyone could call Maelstrom a casual deck, even if you put jank in it.
Really, you're going to get into this here?
Without lands/tons of manafacts maelstrom just sits pretty unable to do much since the deck is at such a high curve.
Land hate is even more despised by the "casual" community than tuck. That doesn't seem like a reasonable answer.
RE: MaRo and EDH
I respect MaRo, and I like the man's public persona quite a bit. I think he has been largely great for the game and have faith that he will continue to work to make the game better as it grows. I do not, however, trust his take on EDH. Any one of probably played more EDH last year than MaRo even has. He has admitted that it is a format that he does not really follow and only rarely plays. As a designer he has to know what cards might be good in it, but I suspect that often times other designers and developers have a better grasp on this. His position on hybrid mana in EDH alone make me wary of his general opinions of aspects of the format.
People should pay as much attention to MaRo when he talks about EDH as they would a vegan's review of a steakhouse.
Seriously, they guy would be much better off if he never mentioned the format, since he has about zero grasp of why the format works as it does and why it's been successful. It should be enough for him that it is successful and thus gives his company a way to sell more product and market to a different demographic.
I'm not so sure. I don't think it's so clear cut that tuck is a good thing in edh. Many casual decks or general focused deck can get shut down way too easily by tuck with no way to recover other than sheer luck. Annoying cards like porphoros can be dealt with, with exile removal. There's plenty of that. Sure they could just cast him again, but the porphoros player will be behind. Also porphoros isn't all that casual of a deck anyway.
Casual players get hosed more by tuck than it helps, and competitive players have plenty of ways to deal with troublesome commanders other than tuck. So I wouldn't say that Maro has "zero" grasp of the format. That's not really fair.
My Saffi deck
I'd like to thank a few people for assisting me in some way or another on my quest for a thousand.
Galspanic - For my inaugural suspension. Ripping on Big Bang Theory was never more worthwhile. Letting me play at his house after said suspension was also cool.
Phil - For my ripping on him a little in here, then meeting him and he was such a nice fellow with a leet mustache.
Teia - For...uh...let me get back to you on that.
In summation...this really isn't a big deal at all, but I'm an attention whore and the spotlight is mine for the nonce.
Volrath the FallenB Empress GalinaU Oona, Queen of the FaeBUAgrus Kos, Wojek VeteranRW
If you build your deck so it can't win without your general and it gets tucked you deserve to lose; I don't care whether you're casual, competitive, or an eggplant.
Hahahahaha no.
Outside of blue, there are not a whole lot of answers to Maelstrom Wanderer. You can't let the damn thing stay on the board because it's obnoxiously huge, but killing it just lets them cascade again. The 2x cascade STILL goes off if it gets countered; there are only a handful of counterspells that stop it. Then it smashes your face again for 7, because apparently 2x cascade wasn't good enough and the damn thing needed haste.
Gods are such a pain in the ass to remove that they generally also need to be tucked.
Actually, any general that is good at killing the table or alpha-striking people is probably better off tucked.
I have never heard an argument for banning tuck that wasn't selfish.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
So the example you use for tuck even in a casual environment is Maelstrom Wanderer? First I don't think anyone could call Maelstrom a casual deck, even if you put jank in it. Second I thought in French they don't have tuck. I could be wrong. If a competitive 1v1 format doesn't need tuck, why would multiplayer? If he is such a problem you can nuke is lands. Without lands/tons of manafacts maelstrom just sits pretty unable to do much since the deck is at such a high curve.
Honestly I'm fine with tuck, I just like arguing.
My Saffi deck
I'm baffled by this too. I don't even see it win on MTGO that much, certainly not enough that I even care about this thing.
Also my most powerful deck auto loses if the commander gets tucked, I must be a baddie.:(
@alblaster: My Wanderer deck is chaos/group hug with no win conditions. I think it qualifies as casual...
@dorino: yes
It certainly has its ups and downs.
amazingly epic sig courtesy of DarkNightCavalier at Heroes of the Planes.
It does
Sadly whenever anyone says anything like I am brought back to Terry the Bi Bipolar Polar Bear.
EDIT: Whoa, that is not what my brain was thinking. There was a character on Queer Duck just named Bipolar Bear. Apparently Terry here is something altogether different. My how my internet niche cartoon references have faded in the last 7 years.
I wish I could have all people I suspend over for beer and cards. It worked out in the end even though the stuff that got you in trouble was classic.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
but do people auto lose if they don't tuck your general?
My Saffi deck
Usually but any cheap creature spot removal sucks. I've lost multiple games to Lightning Bolt...
My Scion deck is at a huge disadvantage if my general gets tucked, but I would never just scoop because my general is gone.
I think there's a difference between saying that you are less likely to win and that you are unable to compete at all.
Surely you have some way of grinding out a win, even in the worst circumstances.
But yes, Ashling 99 mountains deserves to lose against tuck.
@ No one in particular.
Not being able to tuck problem generals does not make you auto-lose, but it does put you at a huge disadvantage when playing against them.
I have never understood why casual players dislike tuck when it's such a great tool against combo and other strategies they hate.
If you don't like tuck you can play counters, tutors, hexproof, and sac outlets; it's not as if you are helpless to stop it.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
You don't grind out wins with Zodiac Rabbit, you just don't. I could theoretically draw my only creature tutor and tutor for my commander but that's not going to happen with any kind of consistency.
So dorino's back?
[Primer] Kozilek, Butcher with Juice.
You don't grind out wins with Zodiac Rabbit, you just don't. I could theoretically draw my only creature tutor and tutor for my commander but that's not going to happen with any kind of consistency.
EDIT: Gah duplicate post...
1) Looked good.
2) Sales girl was cute.
3) Felt guilty not buying it after staring at her.
4) All of the above.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Welcome back. You were missed.
I see nothing wrong with this.
Misc. EDH Stuff: Commander Cube | Zombies (Horde)
Resources:Commander Rulings FAQ | Commander Deckbuilding Guide
Follow me on Twitter! @cryogen_mtg
Really, you're going to get into this here?
Land hate is even more despised by the "casual" community than tuck. That doesn't seem like a reasonable answer.
RE: MaRo and EDH
I respect MaRo, and I like the man's public persona quite a bit. I think he has been largely great for the game and have faith that he will continue to work to make the game better as it grows. I do not, however, trust his take on EDH. Any one of probably played more EDH last year than MaRo even has. He has admitted that it is a format that he does not really follow and only rarely plays. As a designer he has to know what cards might be good in it, but I suspect that often times other designers and developers have a better grasp on this. His position on hybrid mana in EDH alone make me wary of his general opinions of aspects of the format.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
We'll see if it actually pans out, my guess is no.
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
GPolukranos, Kill ALL the Things!G
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
Clan RepresentativeInterested to see if people were correct about bitter blossom, or if they just caused a price spike for no reason.
Still LOLing about mana crypt.
The EDH stax primer
When you absolutely, positively got to kill every permanent in the room, accept no substitutes.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.