MTG Salvation

Hello, friends. I posted a long while back, I then sold my RUG Delver deck. Now, I have re purchased it. I was wondering if any of you have any advice on how to play against Affinity. I'm losing about 60% of the matches I play against it. The only major change to the deck I have made is there is no TNN and 2 Forked Bolts mainboard. I am running Stifle, which has it's uses in the match up with Stoneforge and Tezzeret. Any strategies on how to beat them would be great. If I need to post my Deck list I will, but it's pretty stock if you don't count the Forked Bolts.

Depends, if its consistently in your local meta you should probably dedicate a SB Slot to some artifact hate

At a big tournament its not worth watering down your main/side board for a tier 2 deck.

some artifact hate: ancient grudge, artifact mutation shattering spree, krosan grip, creeping corrosion, shatterstorm

try to put a fast clock on them with delvers. dont let them resolve cranial plating. you need a really fast hand with delvers and bolts (For reach, likely not useful for their creatures).

@shinji: instant speed burnspells like tarfire/fice/bolts improved my matchup vs fast aggros like the one youve mentioned...AFFINITY..resolving a fast clock with delvers and GOYFS (really impt here) will just make most of their creatures a blocker..always stay on guard on their Cranial platings...
ancient grudge is MVP here, i like destroying blue artifact lands so theyll have a hard time reloading thru thoughcast..

Quote from BasqueRootwalla

I don't play RUG, but I enjoy sideboarding against it, and I'm wondering how people who play it would rate their fear of Chalice of the Void and Relic of Progenitus.

Rest in Peace is worse for me than Relic. Chalice just sucks for RUG completely. But i've managed to keep it off me whenever it shows face. I also use 2 SB ancient grudges, are very handy for those and all the SFM decks that heavily rely on batterskull.

Quote from surface33

I am playing a similar list without tarfire and i play 4 mongoose 3 goyf and 1 TNN because i want my deck to be fast. Why did you decide to cut mongoose?

grow-a-goyf was the PLAN, so i included the tarfires, played a fullset of goyfs instead of 3 and since im not running snares anymore, vs goyf decks it's just a matter of holding additional burn if they block it or simply FORCE it., with the list, goyf is simply 4/5, often times is 5/6 and can put a fast clock over goose if it stays on the field.

What about something with flanking against decks that depend on TNN?

Bogardan Lancer is the only 2 drop, theres a few 3 drops, on with RR to give first strike and one with haste.

Makes racing decks like patriot delver a lot more plausible, the question is just how many would you run in side and if it would be playable in any other matchups.

Doesn't seem playable at all, unfortunately.

I still think the best solution for TNN is to maybe run a 3rd Red Blast in the board, and possibly some number of Vendilion Cliques for added flying beats and disruption as well. It's not like it's the first must-answer threat we've been faced with.

UWR patriot has left the stifle plan...making them vulnerable to our land destruction plan...what worries me is when TNN carries any kind of equipment, and that we have alot of answers... i once battled thru 2 unflipped delvers vs a TNN jitte equipped...2 times i stifled the jitte trigger when his TNN attacked and my delvers slaughtered him.

on my SB i have 5 answers to (well it's 6) to equipments...
2 pithing needles (sometimes naming flooded strand, when im successful early denying him mana), 1 cliq, 1 ARevelry, 1 grudge...

and i agree with HOMELAND SECURITY, going back to 3REBs.

Played rug at scg:Columbus, went 7-2 placing 20th. Beat Chris Vanmeter in 8th round with his uwr delver and beat Todd Anderson in round 9 with his jund depths deck.

The biggest all-star of the deck was Stifle, it's a 10 in the first few turns and at least an 8 after that. Aside from the land denial, two notable situations stood out. Vanmeter at 5 with a sfm out and bs in hand, I swung with two nimble mongooseand he went to bring batterskull in play, stifled living weapon, gg. Another was against Anderson, he almost had me on lock down with two Maze of ith and Nether spirit, well stifle on the maze got me in for enough damage. I'm glad I stayed at 4x stifle

Gitaxian probe was amazing, just knowing what they had made my plays much more smooth

Life from the loam just locked out my opponent so many times, too bad this deck is so tight on cards that I'd try it mb.

Surgical extraction just stopped two opponents in their tracks. Taking out a loam from a depths player just made the game a solitare game. Taking out an underground sea from a bug player actually made me feel like a jerk after the match.

My first loss was to a combo deck where i had no idea what was going on. Aluren plus imperial recruiter deck. My other loss was to uwr and both games he won was because of True-name nemesis.

Tnn is a nightmare for this deck, do we try some of our own?

Quote from Sopcich04

Played rug at scg:Columbus, went 7-2 placing 20th. Beat Chris Vanmeter in 8th round with his uwr delver and beat Todd Anderson in round 9 with his jund depths deck.

The biggest all-star of the deck was Stifle, it's a 10 in the first few turns and at least an 8 after that. Aside from the land denial, two notable situations stood out. Vanmeter at 5 with a sfm out and bs in hand, I swung with two nibbles (3/3) and he went to bring bs in play, stifled living weapon, gg. Another was against Anderson, he almost had me on lock down with two mazes and the creature that comes back each upkeep, well stifle on the maze got me in for enough damage. I'm glad I stayed at 4x stifle

Gitaxian probe was amazing, just knowing what they had made my plays much more smooth

Life from the loam just locked out my opponent so many times, too bad this deck is so tight on cards that I'd try it mb.

Surgical extraction just stopped two opponents in their tracks. Taking out a loam from a depths player just made the game a solitare game. Taking out an underground seas from a bug player actually made me feel like a jerk after the match.

My first loss was to a combo deck where i had no idea what was going on. Alluren plus imperial recruiter deck. My other loss was to uwr and both games he won was because of tnn.

Tnn is a nightmare for this deck, do we try some of our own?

Ps. I'll put tags in tomorrow when I'm on a computer.

NICE. Congrats. Way to "Stifle" both Vanmeter and especially Anderson out of contention. Please post your list whenever you can!

TNN is an unfortunate problem for us. My vote is to run 3 REB and maybe a Clique or 2 to fly over the mini-Progenitus. Was UWR the only matchup where you had to face the Nemesis?

updated my post with tags

my deck was pretty basic



i never brought in rough // tumble and i never used dismember. i don't own flusterstorm or submerge so i hope someone can chime in and tell me how good they are
Sideboarding is so easy for any game where you won the previous game, take out all Daze.

everytime a TNN hit the battlefield, i lost, luckily i only played two UWR decks

Quote from Sopcich04

updated my post with tags

my deck was pretty basic

Valkyries's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4x Nimble Mongoose 4x Delver of Secrets 4x Tarmogoyf 4x Brainstorm 4x Ponder 3x Gitaxian Probe 4x Force of Will 4x Daze 2x Spell Pierce 4x Stifle 4x Lightning Bolt 1x Fire // Ice	4x Wasteland 4x Misty Rainforest 4x Scalding Tarn 3x Volcanic Island 3x Tropical Island	SB 1x Ancient Grudge 1x Krosan Grip 3x Red Elemental Blast 2x Forked Bolt 2x Tormod's Crypt 2x Surgical Extraction 2x Rough // Tumble 1x Life from the Loam 1x Dismember

i never brought in rough // tumble and i never used dismember. i don't own flusterstorm or submerge so i hope someone can chime in and tell me how good they are
Sideboarding is so easy for any game where you won the previous game, take out all Daze.

everytime a TNN hit the battlefield, i lost, luckily i only played two UWR decks

I can't comment on Flusterstorm as I'm not running it but I LOVE Submerge - so good. You can even be a little trickzie by bouncing a green creature in response to them activating the fetchland, basically removing it from play permanently.

I also find Rough // Tumble to be a life saver against any type of weenie deck. Lots of Elves in my area though - so it might be different than the SCG scene.

Congrats on your finish btw - seems you did excellent.

I realize how this sounds, but why does Rancor never make it into this deck? You have free (or 1-mana) counterspells to protect from instant speed kills, it allows 5 from delver T2, gives *goyf* trample and makes the goose still attack as a 3 through grave hate, let alone a 5/3 trampling goose.

With that, TNN/chumps can only block 1 damage of it meaning they no longer can present a stall-wall.

You have the color to support it, the counters to protect yourself on the stack, and the desire for speed. The T2 delver scenario goes from a 6 to a 4 turn clock; and with a bolt in hand, 3 turns.

Obviously not a 4 of, but I could see 1-2 being a really effective way to stay relevant after a Skull or TNN manage to land.

Forgot goose was shroud..

Not sure how playable Rancor would be regardless, since generic answers like REB are better against the field. But yea, the shroud doesn't help.

It's notable that the Top 8 list from Columbus had 2 Tarmogoyf, 2 Vendilion Clique in the maindeck. I'm not sure I'd go that extreme, but I am considering running 3 Goyf, 1 Clique main, with probably another in the board. In addition to the 3 REBs in the board (which I've always liked anyway), I feel pretty good about my matchup against TNN decks. It's not ideal, but without Golgari Charm there aren't many better options.

Quote from surface33

Play TNN instead of vendilion.

Meh. I'm not sure that's really better. Clique's Flash and Disruption are better against a lot of decks. Vs. Combo or Control, TNN is essentially a more expensive and less aggressive Tarmogoyf. And causes you to tap out instead of holding up instants. Clique seems better here.

Against grindy decks with removal, Clique might be worse than TNN, but I'd still prefer the instant speed and disruption in most cases. Against TNN decks, I want a way to remove their TNN or accompanying Equipment before it's been cast, but I also want to fly over.

Primarily, it's the instant speed that matters most. 3 Mana is already a lot for this deck, let alone having to spend it mainphase. I'm also pretty reluctant to invest in TNN since I haven't been playing much Legacy lately, but I stand by my other reasons as solid.

Also, Post #1000! Yay! Figured I needed to post here since it is my favorite deck still. I'll get back into the Legacy scene soon. Gotta train up for GP Edison this November!

What's your opinion on Wooded Foothills? Just finishing up my RUG deck in paper and I have 4x Tarn and 1x Misty. Im wondering if there are any major benefits or drawbacks to running this fetch. I figure it could conceal that we run counters on the first few turns plus it grabs both islands. Does it reveal too much? Does it make a difference?

Quote from holden77734

What's your opinion on Wooded Foothills? Just finishing up my RUG deck in paper and I have 4x Tarn and 1x Misty. Im wondering if there are any major benefits or drawbacks to running this fetch. I figure it could conceal that we run counters on the first few turns plus it grabs both islands. Does it reveal too much? Does it make a difference?

Yeah, there are basically no drawbacks to running Foothills over the many other options if you're only finding the duals.

I think with UWR and BUG Delver existing now, people will probably be less likely to walk into a Stifle from an uncracked Polluted Delta or Flooded Strand, whereas it used to be those fetches were a reasonable disguise. Nowadays, I feel like Wooded Foothills probably performs this trick even better, since Jund is a deck and it has no access to Stifle. In fact, if I played a tournament tomorrow with RUG, I'd consider running 4 Foothills, 2 Tarn, 2 Misty for this reason.

Of course, we're only talking about very minor percentage points here in terms of value. You need the Stifle/Foothills draw on the play, and your opponent has to walk into it, but if it wins you a game or two it's worth the guile I suppose.

Hey I've been out of the game for awhile and it's been about six months since I have played with this deck. Any new cards MD or sideboard that are being play-tested heavily or have become staples for RUG?

My problem isn't TNN decks, my problem is decks that destroy my already limited mana. Both death and taxes and jund depths are absolutely horrible match ups. The only times I win those games is if they only draw one wasteland /port/pox, etc, anything else is just bad news. Jund depths especially, god I didn't realize how much I hate small pox. Awful... On the play, I went first turn delver, go. He plays fetch into Bayou, plays a Mox diamond and casts small pox. To make things worse I had two brainstorms and kept a one lander, it was brutal... I drew a land after my next turn, but the damage was done. I don't know what to do to counter these two decks. Dnt I bring in grudges for their vials and equipment but against depths I feel like I have a very uphill battle. Advice or thoughts?

Quote from haloquaero

Against D&T see my previous Post. Lands is difficult, no good matchup for us. Small Pox deserves to be countered (Pierce / Snare). For the other lands perhaps Pithing Needle? Postboard LftL is essential. Cards like Sulfuric Vortex or Surgical Extraction may do some work for you, too, next to artifact / enchantment destruction.

I already use Rough//Tumble, Sulfur and I have Fire//Ice main deck -- been alternating between that and forked bolt but so far liking the fire//ice due to instant speed and another thing I can pitch to FoW.

Still, if they get a few wastelands/ports/thalia I'm in trouble no matter what. Isn't a great situation to be in.

I guess good to know about Jund depths. Thankfully it's not common but I have a feeling it might start to gain some popularity with it's recent success.

Quote from Valkyries

My problem isn't TNN decks, my problem is decks that destroy my already limited mana. Both death and taxes and jund depths are absolutely horrible match ups. The only times I win those games is if they only draw one wasteland /port/pox, etc, anything else is just bad news. Jund depths especially, god I didn't realize how much I hate small pox. Awful... On the play, I went first turn delver, go. He plays fetch into Bayou, plays a Mox diamond and casts small pox. To make things worse I had two brainstorms and kept a one lander, it was brutal... I drew a land after my next turn, but the damage was done. I don't know what to do to counter these two decks. Dnt I bring in grudges for their vials and equipment but against depths I feel like I have a very uphill battle. Advice or thoughts?

I won't tell you that decks like Pox, Maverick, or Death and Taxes are good matchups, but I think with very tight play you can make them closer to 50/50. That's a bit of the challenge of this deck, especially against the stronger "fair" decks that attack our resources.

For starters, that line from the Jund Depths player (land, Mox, Pox) loses very hard to a Daze, or even Force of Will. If you had either one of those cards, you'd have been in much better shape. Spell Snare is definitely a big boon against those decks, as well as Forked Bolt effects against the creature builds. Spell Pierce is better against the Spell-heavier decks, like Jund Depths. Stifle is often hugely important in these matchups, most notably against opposing Wastelands but also against a host of other abilities and effects. Being prepared to Stifle their first Wasteland and Counter their first disruption spell will go a long way toward getting you into the red zone and closer to victory.

Here's the list I'd focus on:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=62814

I like his maindeck, and the SB looks geared toward the problem decks you mentioned as well. No Gitaxian Probes, but if you know thine enemy, such crutches are unnecessary.

The more important steps you can take to defeat these types of decks is just keep grinding out games against them. The more you practice the matchup, the easier it will seem to find a winning line. Identifying which cards you absolutely cannot let resolve, and which cards you can play around, is critical. Often with RUG you literally need to stick a Delver protect it, and dig for Lightning Bolts to just end the game. Other times, you need to carefully plot every move you make to line up against their lines of attack, until you can find the right line to move in for the win.

I'm a rusty Delverer myself here, so my own advice applies to me too. I'll be keeping an eye out for those decks as I re-immerse myself back in the metagame in the coming months.

I've just acquired a playset of Trops and Volcanics so I'm looking into building Threshold. I honestly know very little about the deck and how it matches up against the meta (beyond understanding how to play magic decently in general - I currently run Merfolk, TES, and Dredge).

I was wondering how it handles the meta, what its weaknesses are, where it shines, and any advice for someone looking to get into it (Such as, if you had a chance to start over and build a deck in legacy, would you build Threshold again now that you've experienced it or would you look elsewhere?)

Thanks guys, appreciate it! (:

What is our tek for merfolk? I don't see this matchup often, but Im new-ish to rug. Is this where sulfuric vortex comes into play?

There's a lot of decisions in a RUG deck, and it starts with your starting hand. I've lost quite a few games from keeping mediocre hands against decks that shouldn't have stood a changce had I mulliganed into something that had answers.

From all the decisions like what land to play, which dual to fetch, or if you need to cast that tarmogoyf first, before craking that wasteland. And all those brainstorm decisions as well. Legacy will reward you if you play tight, and play smart.

It's a real thrill to win using Canadian Threshold, so just keep playing and practicing. Experience will be key in playing the deck right. Watching other good players use the deck would also help out a lot in seeing the minor details that go into every decision.

Weakness of the deck, it's probably with the pilot mostly. The more mistakes you make in the course of the game, as you are unfamiliar with your own deck, and with the opponent, then the more you will lose. It's just really difficult to master this deck. As Kurts_rejoinder has said, this is an expert deck.

Quote from Sharky_the_sharkdog

Weakness of the deck, it's probably with the pilot mostly. The more mistakes you make in the course of the game, as you are unfamiliar with your own deck, and with the opponent, then the more you will lose. It's just really difficult to master this deck. As Kurts_rejoinder has said, this is an expert deck.

So if I'm looking into moving into Legacy from Modern and considering this deck, you all would advise against it?