MTG Salvation

Quote from Condoms

Lynch everyone who is scummy regardless or role. Especially if they claim doctor.

Quote from Ged

Quote from Asenion

I think I have a problem when I don't have an objective. If there is a player I need to kill or a power role I need to out or etc I do better. If its just open ended "scum hunt" or "don't get lynched" and no one is interacting with me, I lose track of the game really fast.

ASIDE: this is why the survivor role is dumb.

I enjoyed my role in Polyopticon, it was like a glorified Survivor. One of the roles I've had the most fun playing with, for sure.

-

Also, Asenion is Albus aka Dragonheart91.

Quote from Iso

Also, Asenion is Albus aka Dragonheart91.

... Interesting. I would have never guessed that one.

DH having trouble finding motivation? That's a little hard to believe considering how many time I can recall him stirring the pot.

The day 1 lynch rate here is really impressive.

Condoms, why don't I play more games with you...I like this guy's attitude.

Quote from Asenion

The day 1 lynch rate here is really impressive.

Who are you responding to...?

Quote from The Cold Monarch

Condoms, why don't I play more games with you...I like this guy's attitude.

You do remember he's kpaca, right?

For me the hardest roles to have motivation for is town when I can't do something flashy, because with town I don't have a long term goal to plan for and instead have to focus on finding scum now instead of reaching some goal. It's why I like playing as scum and neutrals because I usually know exactly what and how I have to do to get there.

Basically if I can play the long game and go for a big reveal I have no problem with motivation. But if I can't then it becomes a little harder.

I have found that lying and creating chaos does help me stay motivated though.

Quote from Guardman

I have found that lying and creating chaos does help me stay motivated though.

You? Lie and create chaos? Pfff.

I am the opposite. I much prefer mid-endgames because I can really analyze and solve them, as opposed to D1 where a lot of it is just lol.

*shaking fist angrily at Proph* Stay motivated damn you!

I am still new, so I don't have a "favorite" role or game state yet. Maybe that will happen when I get good at this game

I prefer Day 2 to any other Day in Mafia, but I believe that I just suck in general so any Day in Mafia is kind of bad for me.

Gimme flips, (bef)or(e) (the mafia) give(s) me death!

I respect the information that Day One generates, but I'm a flip-driven player. If left alive, I'll narrow the gamestate down. You'll generally see a sharp spike in decisiveness and clarity around day three, for me.

I have been given mod permission from Iso to post this here:

Looking for at least two more players to play a mafia game on another site.

Game sign up is here.

Game thread is here. (Do not post here unless in game.)

Sign ups will not be open for much longer, probably a couple of days max.

Quote from AsianInvasion

Quote from The Most Curious Thing

Heck, there's only a ~25% chance you hit scum by pulling names out of a hat, and that's what scumhunting feels like without any flips or Night actions.

I haven't seen any recent data, but, IIRC, the last time we looked at completed non-Basics, the D1 scum lynch stat was something like 40-50%; significantly better than what would be expected if the lynch was chosen at random.

Years ago I crunched the numbers on games in general, and yeah, the hit rate on Day 1 is actually substantially higher than Days 2 and 3, IIRC.

(I suspect it's because bad scum is more of a liability than bad town.)

Quote from Xyre

Quote from AsianInvasion

Quote from The Most Curious Thing

Heck, there's only a ~25% chance you hit scum by pulling names out of a hat, and that's what scumhunting feels like without any flips or Night actions.

I haven't seen any recent data, but, IIRC, the last time we looked at completed non-Basics, the D1 scum lynch stat was something like 40-50%; significantly better than what would be expected if the lynch was chosen at random.

Years ago I crunched the numbers on games in general, and yeah, the hit rate on Day 1 is actually substantially higher than Days 2 and 3, IIRC.

(I suspect it's because bad scum is more of a liability than bad town.)

Have we just regressed then? I got a 30% Day 1 mafia hit rate from recent games.

Quote from The Most Curious Thing

I looked at the completed games on Page 1 a few days ago. Not counting Day-ending modkills, 21 D1s ended in town lynches, 10 ended in mafia lynches, and 2 ended in neutral lynches. (Though I didn't separate it out into Basics and non-Basics.)

EDIT: Slight error, it's actually 20 D1 town lynches and 11 D1 mafia lynches for 2013 games. Though I also didn't include a no-lynch in there.

More (accurate?) stats for completed 2013 games:

Day 1 lynches: 20 town, 11 mafia, 2 neutral, 1 no lynch (32% mafia)
Day 2 lynches: 14 town, 19 mafia, 2 neutral, 1 no lynch (53% mafia)
Day 3 lynches: 18 town, 15 mafia, 1 neutral, 1 no lynch (43% mafia)

Did you account for the potentially confounding variable of vig shots? (if people go "that guy is obv scum" and the vig shoots him and then the town mislynches, they still caught scum on that day but would be miscategorized under those stats)

I think part of it is that Day 2 is more accurate based on associations drawn from Day 1's flip.

Vigs should almost always shoot N1 if they are a 1-shot.

The more information the town has, going into D2, the better.

D2 and D3 are the two most critical days of the game - you can either put your foot on the scum team's throat by lynching scum themselves, or narrow down PoE from the gamestate to give them very little room to maneuver D4.

(This applies to large games, just remove D3 in smaller ones).

I'm thinking back to the beginning of Eeveeloution Mafia now.

I watched the conversation between Iso and Storyteller unfold into what I could see as a potential modkill on Storyteller. I said nothing, but refreshed all that evening hoping to see Storyteller jump on the sword.

So a question, about the spirit of the game: As mafia, if you see a townie about to perform a modkillable offense, should you feel compelled to try to stop him, or can you just let him jump on the sword?

IMO, players who get modkilled for violating game rules tend to deserve it; better to ask the mod and clarify the situation than risk punitive action.

It's a bit of a grey area: if you think someone is going to get themselves modkilled, you probably should either point it out or tell the mod in order to preserve the spirit of the game, and it's rather unscrupulous to let someone kill themselves and stain there record. Obviously though, it's hard to tell before someone does something modkill worthy (like quoting too close to their PM), and no-one can be pulled up on not heading off a modkill if no-one confesses to seeing it coming (although trying to bait of push someone into doing so is a huge no-no.)

In short, if you think someone is about to get modkilled, I think it is strongly in the interests of the game and sportsmanship to either tell them and/or inform the mod who can take appropriate action regardless of alignment of either party. This is, sadly, almost entirely unenforceable.

From the standpoint of "Mafia is a fun game that we play because we enjoy it", absolutely you should talk to the mod and prevent the modkill if possible.

From the standpoint of "Mafia is a game that we play because we like to win", then I don't think it's a player's duty to report a player moving towards modkill, so long as they don't encourage it.

You have to choose which is more important to you. Ultimately I think it's more satisfying to win fair and square then via modkills.

EDIT: I think back to Majora's Mask. A few townies were modkilled. This made the win a little less satisfying, ultimately.

Thanks. I like Wheat's answer, particularly. I'll take it to heart.

Quote from Wheat_Grinder

EDIT: I think back to Majora's Mask. A few townies were modkilled. This made the win a little less satisfying, ultimately.

It was also kind of crucial for them to be alive for me to win. D1 being cut short, losing bodies left and right (and weak town roles at that (and and the mafia killing vanillas and leaving me to have to kill the PRs COUGH COUGH))... very slim chances, maaaan.

Out of "sitting on the fence" metaphors? Looking to call someone scummy? Search no more! We now have the smiley for all of your fence-sitting accusatory needs!

Quote from Iso

Out of "sitting on the fence" metaphors? Looking to call someone scummy? Search no more! We now have the smiley for all of your fence-sitting accusatory needs!

Hurray!

I really needed that smiley!

:fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence:

Quote from Iso

Out of "sitting on the fence" metaphors? Looking to call someone scummy? Search no more! We now have the smiley for all of your fence-sitting accusatory needs!

Quote from Rhand

Quote from Iso

Out of "sitting on the fence" metaphors? Looking to call someone scummy? Search no more! We now have the smiley for all of your fence-sitting accusatory needs!

Hurray!

I really needed that smiley!

:fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence::fence:

oh my god it loops perfectly

I am going to abuse the hell out of this. I apologize in advance.

I'm noticing a trend of people replacing because they don't like the game or game state.

Feel like that's poor form and maybe it should carry a harsher penalty? It's one thing to replace due to the inability to participate or for out of game reasons, but replacing because of in game things or frustration kind of goes against the spirit of the game, IMO. You're not always going to get a perfect team to work with and need to overcome those things to still try to pull out the win.

Quote from DCIII

I'm noticing a trend of people replacing because they don't like the game or game state.

Feel like that's poor form and maybe it should carry a harsher penalty? It's one thing to replace due to the inability to participate or for out of game reasons, but replacing because of in game things or frustration kind of goes against the spirit of the game, IMO. You're not always going to get a perfect team to work with and need to overcome those things to still try to pull out the win.

If I were the host I would simply refuse the request for replacement and tell them to sort it out or be modkilled. When you sign up for a game, you're making a commitment to the host, and that commitment must be honored.

Quote from zindabad

Quote from DCIII

I'm noticing a trend of people replacing because they don't like the game or game state.

Feel like that's poor form and maybe it should carry a harsher penalty? It's one thing to replace due to the inability to participate or for out of game reasons, but replacing because of in game things or frustration kind of goes against the spirit of the game, IMO. You're not always going to get a perfect team to work with and need to overcome those things to still try to pull out the win.

If I were the host I would simply refuse the request for replacement and tell them to sort it out or be modkilled. When you sign up for a game, you're making a commitment to the host, and that commitment must be honored.

If the game doesn't matter to the person wanting to leave (hence why they're leaving), I highly doubt getting Modkilled in said game would matter to them.

I believe DCIII is suggesting some form of penalty outside the game for this behaviour - such as going on the probation list (or whatever it's called).

Quote from Sir Karn

Quote from zindabad

Quote from DCIII

I'm noticing a trend of people replacing because they don't like the game or game state.

Feel like that's poor form and maybe it should carry a harsher penalty? It's one thing to replace due to the inability to participate or for out of game reasons, but replacing because of in game things or frustration kind of goes against the spirit of the game, IMO. You're not always going to get a perfect team to work with and need to overcome those things to still try to pull out the win.

If I were the host I would simply refuse the request for replacement and tell them to sort it out or be modkilled. When you sign up for a game, you're making a commitment to the host, and that commitment must be honored.

If the game doesn't matter to the person wanting to leave (hence why they're leaving), I highly doubt getting Modkilled in said game would matter to them.

I believe DCIII is suggesting some form of penalty outside the game for this behaviour - such as going on the probation list (or whatever it's called).

While I do support the Probation List for the reason mentioned I also don't think it is really applicable unless it is chronic replacement. Even then players will have an excuse ready for why they replacing out and it could be something that is not game related at all that has an affect on them in Mafia. I'm not saying that the excuses are false by any means, but it is hard to punish someone for replacing out of a game when you don't know everything that is going on.

If you suspect someone is replacing out of a game because they don't like the game or game state then the mod should make sure to mention this in his end-of-game post. If you suspect someone is doing it frequently or frivolously then contacting a member of the council would probably be a good idea.

Some people are selfish and only think of themselves when playing a social game.

More news at 11.

Happy holidays everyone! I'm glad I discovered this forum/game, has been a lot of fun and I look forward to playing much more with all of you in the future!

Mafia Public Service Announcement:

It has come to my attention that people believe that backpeddling is scummy, when in fact, it is generally backpedaling that is scummy.

For reference, this is a peddler:
And this is a pedaler:
Please take note of the differences between the two. Thank you.


This PSA brought to you by Justice Fruit Pies, the delicious treat you have to be crazy to hate!

posting enormous images is scummy.

Quote from Ecophagy

If you suspect someone is replacing out of a game because they don't like the game or game state then the mod should make sure to mention this in his end-of-game post. If you suspect someone is doing it frequently or frivolously then contacting a member of the council would probably be a good idea.

I am also wondering why a person should be punished for replacing out of a game they don't like. I mean sometimes you do get into a game that looks great on paper but then once you start playing turns out to be a real stinker (At least to you.) I can understand if it is chronic, or if they are lying about why, but why punish a person who is at least being honest about why? (Again assuming it isn't chronic.)

So, been pondering this for a while, but I think I want to make a 12/4 game (working title: Omnicidal Maniac Mafia) where every player has an alternate win condition to fulfill to ensure they win even if their faction does not. I was trying to come up with a way to make everyone some kind of SK-type role to make everyone uneasy but that seems a little difficult to implement and takes away the town vs. mafia aspect of the game, which basically means it's no longer Mafia in that case.

Anyone ambitious want to work on this with me that think it might be plausible?

How... why do you remember the exact date?



And that setup was actually a bit more complicated than you are describing, but I abandoned the idea as I didn't really see any value. It was too complex for too little payoff, at least as I was able to handle it at the time.

I think Generic ran a pretty successful Mason group game over on Colo (Skylanders Mafia). Proph, the general idea was similar to Ozone but also attempted to address the weaknesses of the setup and to create an opposite feel to a Mountainous game. While yes, there is a normal town/mafia distribution, the fact is that townhunting makes the game VERY easy at times. It is a swing at fueling ultimate paranoia in Mafia.

So, heading into the new year, I was thinking it might be fun (if those involved were interested) to do a quarterly power ranking for players.

Just like with most sports power rankings, it would be a subjective, voted ranking of players based on who the voters think would win if those to players played at that current time. You could have the members of the Mafia Council do like a private top 25 ranking, average them, and then post the combined ranking with a short (usually less than 200 words or so) write up on why that player is ranked where they are.

If you did this heading into the new year and then every three months - I think it would add a cool dynamic that could compliment the league feature that you have and also include the people who can't participate in that scoring.


I think it would also give newer players a heads up on who is more veteran while also giving them something to aim for. Just a thought! I know I'd enjoy seeing it if those involved would be willing.

I'm not sure if that's a good idea, for reasons I have trouble quite articulating.

It's subjective, and that's always going to lead to drama or hurt feelings, when it goes beyond the basic 'pick one' situation that our yearly awards take into account.

It's similar logic as to why we don't have a 'worst player' award. If there was a more objective metric at play, like there is with the league, that'd be one thing, but especially if it's fairly frequent, it's probably not realistic.

Mafia isn't really that directly a 'competitive' game, I don't think we would gain anything out of having such a list. Additionally, some of the more well regarded players will readily admit that other people shouldn't try to mirror their playstyle.

Huh, I didn't expect that reaction but I'll defer to both of you as folks who have been doing this quite some time.

I didn't look at it as a list along the lines of here's who you should play like, I looked at it more of an "as scum, who would I least want to have hunting me right now" or "as town, who would I feel like I'd have the most trouble catching."

And there'd have to be a cut off to the ranking (I thought 25 but it could be 20, 15, 10...) so it really wouldn't go into who are the worst players, it would just be who's on top of their game kind of thing.

I prefer a subjective to objective vote because in reading scoring rubrics for the league and cross-town, I feel like they don't always capture the totality of the game. A scum player could run a gambit that intentionally caused his demise but let the rest of his teammates skate for the rest of the game - that would likely just show up as a lynch in an objective scoring system but eyes in the sky might view that as the reason that that player's team won...

It seems to me like mafia's inherently a much more subjective game than objective so having "judges" as opposed to "scores" is a better reflection.

Just my two cents. Then, I'm very competitive so I may not be in keeping with the spirit of things, I understand.

Quote from Cyan

Mafia isn't really that directly a 'competitive' game, I don't think we would gain anything out of having such a list. Additionally, some of the more well regarded players will readily admit that other people shouldn't try to mirror their playstyle.

Or we will admit it for them.

/barn Voxx, Cyan, and Xyre.

HELLO

i Have most of a mini setup done. Team Forturess 2 mafia.

If anybody wnats to Host a game and also Get it Reviweed let me know. It's a fairly unique setup (no "basic+" or anything like that). I would put it in the queue but I already have a gme there.

I will donate this setup to you (it's not done, but it close) since the Mini queue is anemic.