That being said, there are probably only two scum due to TK's role
Why would the existence of a two-shot neutral vig mean that there are only two mafia?
I can't remember where this was said earlier and don't have time to read back by now. Does anyone remember if it was DCIII that said this originally, or someone else?
With TK flipping neutral, pursuing Void for defending him is nonsense.
Why did you wait until someone else did to vote for him?
Quote from Rhand »
I'm pretty sure there is scum in the Fighting - Rezombied - Miss Blue cluster.
Voting me for wanting to use TK's nightkill to help town is bollocks.
I'm being treated like an easy mislynch now.
It is certainly not bullocks, Mister Rhand. ^^
Quote from Rhand »
My gut says it's Blue. She knows me well and should realize that I am not auto-scum for that.
I did not say you were automatically mafia-aligned for your action, Mister Rhand. It was the way you went about it so vigorously that made me believe your motives were sinister.
Quote from Rhand »
She also posted after Shock's action claim without switching her vote to Idle Muse.
Why is that a problem? You did the exact same thing. Additionally, upon re-reading, I misunderstood Mister Shockwave's claim - I thought he was claiming that he delayed all actions that targeted Mister Muse, as that is the variant of Delayer that I am used to seeing (a la Ozone Underground). Now that I understand, I have no issue with Unvote, Vote Mister Muse, however.
The actions he would have taken last Night did not take place and would be delayed until toNight. Track can confirm that. So if Idle Muse was sent out for the NK we can confirm it that way.
If you're not scum then I'm so confused by what you're doing this game. He didn't say there was no other logical reason, he said that's what he thinks if there is no other logical reason. You question him on this with the suspicious eyebrow and then naked vote Idle Muse without explaining your thought process.
That being said, there are probably only two scum due to TK's role
Why would the existence of a two-shot neutral vig mean that there are only two mafia?
I can't remember where this was said earlier and don't have time to read back by now. Does anyone remember if it was DCIII that said this originally, or someone else?
Yeah, Rhand said it first but I think it makes sense. TK would have kept the town from winning as long as he was alive. Also, TK's ability could have sped along the game pretty quickly since he had multiple shots. I'd be pretty surprised if we would have had to eliminate 1/3rd of the players as opposed to 1/4th of the players with a multiple shot vig/or survivor in the mix.
If someone who is more seasoned with setups than I disagrees with this then I'm all ears.
Without there being any other logical reason for no NK Night 1 that is.
How do you know there is no other logical reason?
Indeed, I find it exceptionally unlikely that our only protective role is a delayer, especially given we already know the setup contained a 2xVig on top of the mafia.
But, like I said before, any such protective role shouldn't claim anyway. It is my understanding that docs can't generally self-target, and giving this kind of info to the mafia is just stupid.
Had Idle waited to see that Shock wasn't responding me, then he would not have made that post above and attacked Shock for it. This screams to me that Idle was looking for a reason to find a way to jump onto a Shock wagon that may have been forming at the time.
Would you mind telling me why you think Idle is Town? I see you mentioned fast wagon and that he may not have made the kill, but what other reasons do you have?
If you're not scum then I'm so confused by what you're doing this game. He didn't say there was no other logical reason, he said that's what he thinks if there is no other logical reason. You question him on this with the suspicious eyebrow and then naked vote Idle Muse without explaining your thought process.
Where did Shock use the word “thinks”? It’s possible that there is a protective role out there and that is more likely to be so considering TK was a Hitman. There for there is a logical explanation for having a protection role out there.
However, this point was made moot by Idle because of how he handled the question to Shock. I would be very surprised if Idle flipped Town at this point.
Without there being any other logical reason for no NK Night 1 that is.
How do you know there is no other logical reason?
Indeed, I find it exceptionally unlikely that our only protective role is a delayer, especially given we already know the setup contained a 2xVig on top of the mafia.
But, like I said before, any such protective role shouldn't claim anyway. It is my understanding that docs can't generally self-target, and giving this kind of info to the mafia is just stupid.
Had Idle waited to see that Shock wasn't responding me, then he would not have made that post above and attacked Shock for it. This screams to me that Idle was looking for a reason to find a way to jump onto a Shock wagon that may have been forming at the time.
Would you mind telling me why you think Idle is Town? I see you mentioned fast wagon and that he may not have made the kill, but what other reasons do you have?
That's a fair assessment. Also, I apparently glossed over that post. Do we even know that there are 2x Vig? One was TK-421. Who is the other? If this hasn't been divulged in thread, then I'm definitely on board with lynching Idle Muse.
Also, it isn't so much that I think Idle Muse is town - his play hasn't been particularly compelling. It's more that I think that iRebel, Rhand and Paper/Shockwave were more scummy D1, and since I haven't been a fan of Paper, I was wary to trust his claim here. That said, I can't actually think of a scenario where it makes sense for scum!Shockwave's team to *not* perform a NK and then try to trade 1 for 1 with a town player, and it makes similarly little sense (although maybe slightly more?) in a scenario where Shockwave and Idle Muse are scum together.
Also, in terms of being "fast", I'm always wary of someone being run up into claim range within 24 hours of the Day starting if it's an early day, unless it involves definitive proof like a Cop or Watcher result.
I'll spend some time this weekend rereading Idle Muse, since the only sense of him I have is "not particularly compelling". I'll also look to see if we actually *do* know that there are two vigs. If we don't, he can hang barring a *really good* explanation.
Without there being any other logical reason for no NK Night 1 that is.
How do you know there is no other logical reason?
Indeed, I find it exceptionally unlikely that our only protective role is a delayer, especially given we already know the setup contained a 2xVig on top of the mafia.
But, like I said before, any such protective role shouldn't claim anyway. It is my understanding that docs can't generally self-target, and giving this kind of info to the mafia is just stupid.
Had Idle waited to see that Shock wasn't responding me, then he would not have made that post above and attacked Shock for it. This screams to me that Idle was looking for a reason to find a way to jump onto a Shock wagon that may have been forming at the time.
I was not responding to you there, Void, that post was aimed at Shockwave; I was agreeing with you, laying it out a bit more for him since I was getting the feeling he wasn't understanding why no more reasons for the no-kill were forthcoming. To make myself clear, I was in no way looking for a wagon on Shockwave at all; I believe his claim, he's just misguided in attacking me for it. I don't even think a Shockwave wagon WAS forming?? I don't think being mistaken is a scum trait, and I can't see this as a scum gambit at all.
Since I'm at L-2; I am Amy Wong, vanilla townie.
I didn't say that post was aimed at me... and even stated that you attacked Shock because of his post.
A Shock wagon could have happened had Shock answered differently to my post. That is why I said there COULD have been one. But rather than wait for Shock to respond you jumped in and attacked Shock for what I thought he was saying. Since that was not the case it makes your attack look like you are trying to jump on a wagon that is about to take off. That post showed your true colors, red, Scum.
If you're not scum then I'm so confused by what you're doing this game. He didn't say there was no other logical reason, he said that's what he thinks if there is no other logical reason. You question him on this with the suspicious eyebrow and then naked vote Idle Muse without explaining your thought process.
Where did Shock use the word “thinks”? It’s possible that there is a protective role out there and that is more likely to be so considering TK was a Hitman. There for there is a logical explanation for having a protection role out there.
However, this point was made moot by Idle because of how he handled the question to Shock. I would be very surprised if Idle flipped Town at this point.
He didn't use the word, "thinks" it was contextual. I clarified that he claimed that the reason there was no NK is because he delayed Idle Muse.
He said the above. "Without there being any other logical explanation for the no NK Night 1, that is"
That is a qualification statement meaning, "Barring there not being another logical explanation, that is what I'm claiming."
It's very clear that that's not a statement of "I know that there is no other logical explanation." So I think you're stretching to put words into his mouth.
But then, saying that Idle was attacking Shockwave there? Let's look at the quote:
Indeed, I find it exceptionally unlikely that our only protective role is a delayer, especially given we already know the setup contained a 2xVig on top of the mafia.
But, like I said before, any such protective role shouldn't claim anyway. It is my understanding that docs can't generally self-target, and giving this kind of info to the mafia is just stupid.
Idle is being voted by several for Shock's claim. His response to Shock is that it's unlikely that our only protective role is a delayer, knowing that the setup has a vig with two shots in addition to the Mafia.
Also that a protective role shouldn't claim.
How, in any way, can this be classified as an attack on Shockwave? It's a defense of himself and never once implies anything about Shockwave's alignment whatsoever.
I think you're really stretching to create your own content to add to the Idle Muse case at this point, and I think you're busing him.
The logic for defending TK didn't add up, the logic here doesn't add up.
Also, everyone please go back and look at the interactions between Void and Idle Muse - Idle Muse defends Void early from the Paperblade RVS vote, Idle Muse defends Void from Guardman, Idle Muse says he can understand Void's thought process in relation to TK (not likely). Void is VERY vague when responding to Blue about why he doesn't like Idle's post and Blue calls it out.
I think it's Idle and Void. Am fine with Idle but when he flips scum, let's not lose sight of Void.
"Well, I for one, am not going directly into the line of fire again."
"That's probably a good idea. Let's start asking around town, maybe Hedonism-bot has heard something."
As the crew started outside a hissing noise rose up from the ground followed by popping and crashing far down the street.
"Back inside! Back inside, you fools!" As the crashing drew closer they slammed and barred the door. "Let's just sit down and figure out what is going on."
The crew gathered around the table when the crashing hit the roof. A manhole cover slammed down, destroying the table and going clear through the floor.
"What the.." BlueElectric was cut off by the sound of four more manhole covers smashing through the ceiling. As the noise outside died down the crew came out of the places they were taking cover in. They made their ways to the window and the scene below was something out of a comic book.
People and robots running this way and that, hands in the air, mouths open with no sound coming out. "Open the windows. I had the anti-scream glass installed after the great taco riots of 2997." As the windows were opened the cacophony of noise was overwhelming. But beneath all the running and screaming there was something else...
"Look at the sewers! Something is climbing out of them!"
If I die before I get to post again, I'd advise people to look very closely at the speed at which this wagon rolled on me. I'm being strung up with no justification other than a completely WIFOM claim from Shockwave regarding his night action's effects and some mudslinging from Void who has been pushing me very hard, I feel too hard; He's not bussing me, he's scum trying to push D2 to a quickmislynch before we can get ourselves in order.
Look at the people on my wagon: DCIII, Rhand, Void, BlueElectric, Guardman (though he's not actually voting). Void I've covered above, DCIII attacks Void and then votes me on the basis we might be scumbuddies, despit the fact Void's the one acting scummily, and both Rhand, BlueElectric, and Guardman pretty much /barned there way onto this without any explanation at all, really. I'd be highly surprised if both scum weren't on my wagon already. Void/DCIII doesn't make much sense to me because of posts like #331 yesterday, but I could see any of the others being his scumbuddy right now.
This wagon has given us a bunch of useful information, let's use it to hunt actual scum.
Vote Void
Mister Void is town.
Period.
Additionally, I find it dubious at best that you did not take into consideration my arguments against you yesterDay when processing my vote on you now.
"and both Rhand, BlueElectric, and Guardman pretty much /barned there way onto this"
I think this is a slip that your comrade is among Mister Rhand, Mister Dog, and myself. "Both" indicates two people - this suggests to me that you added your comrade at the last minute to this list of three without remembering to change your "both", meaning 2 of the people you named here are town and the third is not; you wished to make a blanket discrediting statement and decided you should include your comrade for the sake of making them look more like town.
Look at the people on my wagon: DCIII, Rhand, Void, BlueElectric, Guardman (though he's not actually voting). Void I've covered above, DCIII attacks Void and then votes me on the basis we might be scumbuddies, despit the fact Void's the one acting scummily, and both Rhand, BlueElectric, and Guardman pretty much /barned there way onto this without any explanation at all, really.
Idle you do remember that I called you scum and made a case against you yesterday. I was voting you before it was cool.
If I die before I get to post again, I'd advise people to look very closely at the speed at which this wagon rolled on me. I'm being strung up with no justification other than a completely WIFOM claim from Shockwave regarding his night action's effects and some mudslinging from Void who has been pushing me very hard, I feel too hard; He's not bussing me, he's scum trying to push D2 to a quickmislynch before we can get ourselves in order.
Look at the people on my wagon: DCIII, Rhand, Void, BlueElectric, Guardman (though he's not actually voting). Void I've covered above, DCIII attacks Void and then votes me on the basis we might be scumbuddies, despit the fact Void's the one acting scummily, and both Rhand, BlueElectric, and Guardman pretty much /barned there way onto this without any explanation at all, really. I'd be highly surprised if both scum weren't on my wagon already. Void/DCIII doesn't make much sense to me because of posts like #331 yesterday, but I could see any of the others being his scumbuddy right now.
This wagon has given us a bunch of useful information, let's use it to hunt actual scum.
Thanks for confirming that it's 2 scum we're looking for.
Isn't this statement a little biased? You were the one who introduced the idea of 2 scum initially.
So? I agree that it looks like a slip. This fits pretty well with the speculation that TK is taking the place of the third mafiate. With his true ability being a two-shot hitman... the balance would be insane with a full mafia group. Against a 3-man team we would lose after two mislynches if TK doesn't shoot scum ever. No way.
"and both Rhand, BlueElectric, and Guardman pretty much /barned there way onto this"
I think this is a slip that your comrade is among Mister Rhand, Mister Dog, and myself. "Both" indicates two people - this suggests to me that you added your comrade at the last minute to this list of three without remembering to change your "both", meaning 2 of the people you named here are town and the third is not; you wished to make a blanket discrediting statement and decided you should include your comrade for the sake of making them look more like town.
But you dun goofed, Mister Muse. ^^
So you think Guardman and Idle Muse are scumbuddies?
Why in the world does everyone think Void is obvtown? There's been no good answer for this yet other than Blue says she can read him but there is a lot of stuff that he's done that says otherwise to me and there's been no good response to any of it. I am going to summarize again toMorrow.
Why in the world does everyone think Void is obvtown? There's been no good answer for this yet other than Blue says she can read him but there is a lot of stuff that he's done that says otherwise to me and there's been no good response to any of it. I am going to summarize again toMorrow.
Anyway, still on board with the Idle Muse lynch.
I don't think Void is town. If Miss Blue does, she ought to explain why.
Anyway, lynching Idle works with me, so Vote: Idle Muse.
What's your planet DC? Same question to Miss FIGHTING.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I'd like to have a little time to read up on stuff and share thoughts (just through tomorrow evening EST). PTQ yesterday meant I had to do all my weekend errands today.
I'd like to have a little time to read up on stuff and share thoughts (just through tomorrow evening EST). PTQ yesterday meant I had to do all my weekend errands today.
With TK flipping neutral, pursuing Void for defending him is nonsense.
I'm pretty sure there is scum in the Fighting - Rezombied - Miss Blue cluster.
Voting me for wanting to use TK's nightkill to help town is bollocks.
I'm being treated like an easy mislynch now.
My gut says it's Blue. She knows me well and should realize that I am not auto-scum for that. She also posted after Shock's action claim without switching her vote to Idle Muse.
Is it really that unreasonable that you got these votes? He claimed non-town, which was contrary to our wincon. I really don't see what's so hard about that. You were under scrutiny (at the time of this quote, you were at L-3), and saying you're "being treated like an easy mislynch" seems like an attempt to fearmonger, coupled with a light slinging of mud on Blue.
This looks a lot like OMGUS ("she is scum for calling me scum"), and using the timing of Shockwave's post against her seems ridiculous. Even in the now very likely event that Idle Muse is scum, is it that unreasonable that she kept her vote on you - another player that she had a scumread on? It's not like you voted Idle on your first post after Shockwave shared his info.
I also don't like that you vote Idle Muse here and then immediately focus on yourself again rather than talk at all about the player you just placed your vote on and switch to who you want to lynch next.
"and both Rhand, BlueElectric, and Guardman pretty much /barned there way onto this"
I think this is a slip that your comrade is among Mister Rhand, Mister Dog, and myself. "Both" indicates two people - this suggests to me that you added your comrade at the last minute to this list of three without remembering to change your "both", meaning 2 of the people you named here are town and the third is not; you wished to make a blanket discrediting statement and decided you should include your comrade for the sake of making them look more like town.
"and both Rhand, BlueElectric, and Guardman pretty much /barned there way onto this"
I think this is a slip that your comrade is among Mister Rhand, Mister Dog, and myself. "Both" indicates two people - this suggests to me that you added your comrade at the last minute to this list of three without remembering to change your "both", meaning 2 of the people you named here are town and the third is not; you wished to make a blanket discrediting statement and decided you should include your comrade for the sake of making them look more like town.
But you dun goofed, Mister Muse. ^^
So you think Guardman and Idle Muse are scumbuddies?
Can you explain your logic here? Also, who do you think is scum (aside from Idle)? I'm intrigued that this is the conclusion you came to based on toDay's posts.
------------
Idle's D1 posts are mixed for me, but I definitely haven't been a fan of his D2 posts. #357 reads as overly nervous to me (leading with "umm, let's not jump to any conclusions here" and offering to be tracked tonight (to out a town PR) to "prove his innocence".
#365 reads poorly to me too when compounded with #357 - he doesn't want a protective role to claim, but he does want the Tracker to claim tomorrow? A tracker role is arguably more valuable than a Doctor - the former can be used to catch scum (furthering Town's victory) while the latter can only be used to protect Town (delaying Scum's victory). I don't like this mindset.
#395 is ridiculous. It casts a wide net on everyone on his wagon, yet doesn't really go into that much detail on any of them. Void is "covered above" (#388 and #390?). DCIII is now suspicious because he has two scumreads and is pushing the one that is you? Rhand/Blue/Gman are referred to as "both" as noted previously by Blue, which I do believe to be a slip.
------------
After catching up on toDay's events, I support an Idle Muse lynch, but would love it if Rhand/rezombied could respond to my questions before we hammer, since Twilight was only a few hours long yesterDay.
I can accept the votes from fighting and zombie as what you described, but not Blue's
My handling of the wagon yesterday was me trying to use game mechanics to our advantage; something i always try to do. Iso has played with me loads of times and has mislynched or pushed a mislynch wagon on me almost every single time.
He should know by now that what I did yesterday is just what i do.
I still think that throwing a town-guided kill away is a waste.
He Idle muse vote was because of the nightaction claim. It didn't need more explanation so i focused on catching other scum instead.
Blue said "you added your comrade to the list at the last minute" I wanted clarification on if she meant Guardman or Rhand.
I don't think Idle is more scummy than Rhand and Void. And I'm not convinced of Shockwave's conclusion.
But he had been voting Rhand and questioning him earlier today.
Regardless, it's fine - it just seemed like a weird way to ask the question.
Re:Shockwave: Are you not convinced that he is being truthful or do you believe his explanation but are just unsure that it is the correct explanation?
I can accept the votes from fighting and zombie as what you described, but not Blue's
My handling of the wagon yesterday was me trying to use game mechanics to our advantage; something i always try to do. Iso has played with me loads of times and has mislynched or pushed a mislynch wagon on me almost every single time.
He should know by now that what I did yesterday is just what i do.
I personally don't have much experience with this, but sure. Is this something you do regardless of alignment, or are you trying to say that this is specifically your town game?
I still think that throwing a town-guided kill away is a waste.
But there was no good way to incentivize him to listen to us, especially after it was made clear that since he was non-town, he had to die if he misfired.
He Idle muse vote was because of the nightaction claim. It didn't need more explanation so i focused on catching other scum instead.
So to me this reads that you didn't otherwise suspect him/would not have voted him otherwise? I understand from the timing that your vote was based on Shockwave's claim, but you seem to accept his explanation implicitly and don't look back. I understand that you had a town read on him D1, but that was solely based on Asenion replacing out. DCIII posits some questions back at Shockwave and at least addresses that there are potentially other explanations. You just go "oh a claim that implicates someone, guess I'll place my vote there". If I were a betting man, I'd say that you're the one that Idle Muse slipped about.
I try to "be" town when i am scum, so i guess it's null.
But i only have 2 completed scum games, so I don't know for sure how i would handle that.
My vision on the muse situation is simple: protective roles should claim when someone gets wrongly lynched. So if muse is put to lynch range and the protect isn't counterclaimed, Muse must die.
I play on mechanics > player analysis because that's what I do better.
EBWODP: Above is more for curiosity on your overall philosophy. Do you think protective roles should feel obligated to claim in this scenario or should the protective role's own read on the player in question and his reactions afterwards factor into his/her decision?
Re:Shockwave: Are you not convinced that he is being truthful or do you believe his explanation but are just unsure that it is the correct explanation?
I have no reason to believe that he isn't being truthful.
I am unsure that his is the correct explanation for the lack of NK.
If the protective role doesn't believe it to be a mislynch, then he should not claim.
Guiding the lynch away from someone you think is scum and outing yourself in the process is not the way to go.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Why would the existence of a two-shot neutral vig mean that there are only two mafia?
I can't remember where this was said earlier and don't have time to read back by now. Does anyone remember if it was DCIII that said this originally, or someone else?
Ah it was Rhand.
Why did you wait until someone else did to vote for him?
It is certainly not bullocks, Mister Rhand. ^^
I did not say you were automatically mafia-aligned for your action, Mister Rhand. It was the way you went about it so vigorously that made me believe your motives were sinister.
Why is that a problem? You did the exact same thing. Additionally, upon re-reading, I misunderstood Mister Shockwave's claim - I thought he was claiming that he delayed all actions that targeted Mister Muse, as that is the variant of Delayer that I am used to seeing (a la Ozone Underground). Now that I understand, I have no issue with Unvote, Vote Mister Muse, however.
Ah, got it now.
If you're not scum then I'm so confused by what you're doing this game. He didn't say there was no other logical reason, he said that's what he thinks if there is no other logical reason. You question him on this with the suspicious eyebrow and then naked vote Idle Muse without explaining your thought process.
Yeah, Rhand said it first but I think it makes sense. TK would have kept the town from winning as long as he was alive. Also, TK's ability could have sped along the game pretty quickly since he had multiple shots. I'd be pretty surprised if we would have had to eliminate 1/3rd of the players as opposed to 1/4th of the players with a multiple shot vig/or survivor in the mix.
If someone who is more seasoned with setups than I disagrees with this then I'm all ears.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
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While this has some credence it gets completely washed away with his response to me below:
Had Idle waited to see that Shock wasn't responding me, then he would not have made that post above and attacked Shock for it. This screams to me that Idle was looking for a reason to find a way to jump onto a Shock wagon that may have been forming at the time.
Would you mind telling me why you think Idle is Town? I see you mentioned fast wagon and that he may not have made the kill, but what other reasons do you have?
Where did Shock use the word “thinks”? It’s possible that there is a protective role out there and that is more likely to be so considering TK was a Hitman. There for there is a logical explanation for having a protection role out there.
However, this point was made moot by Idle because of how he handled the question to Shock. I would be very surprised if Idle flipped Town at this point.
That's a fair assessment. Also, I apparently glossed over that post. Do we even know that there are 2x Vig? One was TK-421. Who is the other? If this hasn't been divulged in thread, then I'm definitely on board with lynching Idle Muse.
Also, it isn't so much that I think Idle Muse is town - his play hasn't been particularly compelling. It's more that I think that iRebel, Rhand and Paper/Shockwave were more scummy D1, and since I haven't been a fan of Paper, I was wary to trust his claim here. That said, I can't actually think of a scenario where it makes sense for scum!Shockwave's team to *not* perform a NK and then try to trade 1 for 1 with a town player, and it makes similarly little sense (although maybe slightly more?) in a scenario where Shockwave and Idle Muse are scum together.
Also, in terms of being "fast", I'm always wary of someone being run up into claim range within 24 hours of the Day starting if it's an early day, unless it involves definitive proof like a Cop or Watcher result.
I'll spend some time this weekend rereading Idle Muse, since the only sense of him I have is "not particularly compelling". I'll also look to see if we actually *do* know that there are two vigs. If we don't, he can hang barring a *really good* explanation.
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Because I replaced in for Asenion just to help you get your facts straight.
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I didn't say that post was aimed at me... and even stated that you attacked Shock because of his post.
A Shock wagon could have happened had Shock answered differently to my post. That is why I said there COULD have been one. But rather than wait for Shock to respond you jumped in and attacked Shock for what I thought he was saying. Since that was not the case it makes your attack look like you are trying to jump on a wagon that is about to take off. That post showed your true colors, red, Scum.
He didn't use the word, "thinks" it was contextual. I clarified that he claimed that the reason there was no NK is because he delayed Idle Muse.
He said the above. "Without there being any other logical explanation for the no NK Night 1, that is"
That is a qualification statement meaning, "Barring there not being another logical explanation, that is what I'm claiming."
It's very clear that that's not a statement of "I know that there is no other logical explanation." So I think you're stretching to put words into his mouth.
But then, saying that Idle was attacking Shockwave there? Let's look at the quote:
Idle is being voted by several for Shock's claim. His response to Shock is that it's unlikely that our only protective role is a delayer, knowing that the setup has a vig with two shots in addition to the Mafia.
Also that a protective role shouldn't claim.
How, in any way, can this be classified as an attack on Shockwave? It's a defense of himself and never once implies anything about Shockwave's alignment whatsoever.
I think you're really stretching to create your own content to add to the Idle Muse case at this point, and I think you're busing him.
The logic for defending TK didn't add up, the logic here doesn't add up.
Also, everyone please go back and look at the interactions between Void and Idle Muse - Idle Muse defends Void early from the Paperblade RVS vote, Idle Muse defends Void from Guardman, Idle Muse says he can understand Void's thought process in relation to TK (not likely). Void is VERY vague when responding to Blue about why he doesn't like Idle's post and Blue calls it out.
I think it's Idle and Void. Am fine with Idle but when he flips scum, let's not lose sight of Void.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
"That's probably a good idea. Let's start asking around town, maybe Hedonism-bot has heard something."
As the crew started outside a hissing noise rose up from the ground followed by popping and crashing far down the street.
"Back inside! Back inside, you fools!" As the crashing drew closer they slammed and barred the door. "Let's just sit down and figure out what is going on."
The crew gathered around the table when the crashing hit the roof. A manhole cover slammed down, destroying the table and going clear through the floor.
"What the.." BlueElectric was cut off by the sound of four more manhole covers smashing through the ceiling. As the noise outside died down the crew came out of the places they were taking cover in. They made their ways to the window and the scene below was something out of a comic book.
People and robots running this way and that, hands in the air, mouths open with no sound coming out. "Open the windows. I had the anti-scream glass installed after the great taco riots of 2997." As the windows were opened the cacophony of noise was overwhelming. But beneath all the running and screaming there was something else...
"Look at the sewers! Something is climbing out of them!"
"Are those zombies? I mean, come on!"
"They're headed this way!"
________________________
Idle Muse (4): DCIII, Rhand, Void, BlueElectric
Rhand (2): FIGHTING, Rezombied
Not Voting: Shockwave07, Cythare, iRebel, Idle Muse, Guardman
Do we have anything else to discuss about this, or are we good to go?
Isn't this statement a little biased? You were the one who introduced the idea of 2 scum initially.
Mister Void is town.
Period.
Additionally, I find it dubious at best that you did not take into consideration my arguments against you yesterDay when processing my vote on you now.
I think this is a slip that your comrade is among Mister Rhand, Mister Dog, and myself. "Both" indicates two people - this suggests to me that you added your comrade at the last minute to this list of three without remembering to change your "both", meaning 2 of the people you named here are town and the third is not; you wished to make a blanket discrediting statement and decided you should include your comrade for the sake of making them look more like town.
But you dun goofed, Mister Muse. ^^
Idle you do remember that I called you scum and made a case against you yesterday. I was voting you before it was cool.
>does wagon analysis
>calls everybody potential scum
>votes obvtown void
time 2 lynch
Are we ready to end the Day?
I didn't even think about it that way.
So you think Guardman and Idle Muse are scumbuddies?
Anyway, still on board with the Idle Muse lynch.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I don't think Void is town. If Miss Blue does, she ought to explain why.
Anyway, lynching Idle works with me, so Vote: Idle Muse.
What's your planet DC? Same question to Miss FIGHTING.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Neptune.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
... Well if you're doing it...
@iRebel: If this comes back to burn me somehow I will be mad, but Robot Hell.
I am willing to hammer, and will do so in 24 hours.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Fine. I am willing to hammer whenever.
While we're waiting for Cythare - who are your other main suspects in addition to Idle Muse and why?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Void - And if you need to know why you obviously haven't been reading the thread.[/font][/COLOR]
Is it really that unreasonable that you got these votes? He claimed non-town, which was contrary to our wincon. I really don't see what's so hard about that. You were under scrutiny (at the time of this quote, you were at L-3), and saying you're "being treated like an easy mislynch" seems like an attempt to fearmonger, coupled with a light slinging of mud on Blue.
This looks a lot like OMGUS ("she is scum for calling me scum"), and using the timing of Shockwave's post against her seems ridiculous. Even in the now very likely event that Idle Muse is scum, is it that unreasonable that she kept her vote on you - another player that she had a scumread on? It's not like you voted Idle on your first post after Shockwave shared his info.
I also don't like that you vote Idle Muse here and then immediately focus on yourself again rather than talk at all about the player you just placed your vote on and switch to who you want to lynch next.
Good catch.
Can you explain your logic here? Also, who do you think is scum (aside from Idle)? I'm intrigued that this is the conclusion you came to based on toDay's posts.
------------
Idle's D1 posts are mixed for me, but I definitely haven't been a fan of his D2 posts. #357 reads as overly nervous to me (leading with "umm, let's not jump to any conclusions here" and offering to be tracked tonight (to out a town PR) to "prove his innocence".
#365 reads poorly to me too when compounded with #357 - he doesn't want a protective role to claim, but he does want the Tracker to claim tomorrow? A tracker role is arguably more valuable than a Doctor - the former can be used to catch scum (furthering Town's victory) while the latter can only be used to protect Town (delaying Scum's victory). I don't like this mindset.
#395 is ridiculous. It casts a wide net on everyone on his wagon, yet doesn't really go into that much detail on any of them. Void is "covered above" (#388 and #390?). DCIII is now suspicious because he has two scumreads and is pushing the one that is you? Rhand/Blue/Gman are referred to as "both" as noted previously by Blue, which I do believe to be a slip.
------------
After catching up on toDay's events, I support an Idle Muse lynch, but would love it if Rhand/rezombied could respond to my questions before we hammer, since Twilight was only a few hours long yesterDay.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
I don't think Idle is more scummy than Rhand and Void. And I'm not convinced of Shockwave's conclusion.
My handling of the wagon yesterday was me trying to use game mechanics to our advantage; something i always try to do. Iso has played with me loads of times and has mislynched or pushed a mislynch wagon on me almost every single time.
He should know by now that what I did yesterday is just what i do.
I still think that throwing a town-guided kill away is a waste.
He Idle muse vote was because of the nightaction claim. It didn't need more explanation so i focused on catching other scum instead.
But he had been voting Rhand and questioning him earlier today.
Regardless, it's fine - it just seemed like a weird way to ask the question.
Re:Shockwave: Are you not convinced that he is being truthful or do you believe his explanation but are just unsure that it is the correct explanation?
I personally don't have much experience with this, but sure. Is this something you do regardless of alignment, or are you trying to say that this is specifically your town game?
But there was no good way to incentivize him to listen to us, especially after it was made clear that since he was non-town, he had to die if he misfired.
So to me this reads that you didn't otherwise suspect him/would not have voted him otherwise? I understand from the timing that your vote was based on Shockwave's claim, but you seem to accept his explanation implicitly and don't look back. I understand that you had a town read on him D1, but that was solely based on Asenion replacing out. DCIII posits some questions back at Shockwave and at least addresses that there are potentially other explanations. You just go "oh a claim that implicates someone, guess I'll place my vote there". If I were a betting man, I'd say that you're the one that Idle Muse slipped about.
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But i only have 2 completed scum games, so I don't know for sure how i would handle that.
My vision on the muse situation is simple: protective roles should claim when someone gets wrongly lynched. So if muse is put to lynch range and the protect isn't counterclaimed, Muse must die.
I play on mechanics > player analysis because that's what I do better.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
I have no reason to believe that he isn't being truthful.
I am unsure that his is the correct explanation for the lack of NK.
Guiding the lynch away from someone you think is scum and outing yourself in the process is not the way to go.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats