It's amazing going through this thread a second time and running into so many arguments about her being bad based off of HORRIBLE playing. If your argument for Kiora being bad is you land her on turn 4 against your opponent's board of creatures and then she dies after drawing you a card and ramping a land, it's not that she is a bad card, but you are bad at Magic. Just as many people use 'Christmasland' arguments to prove why a card is good, others go through similar lengths to prove why she is bad, and no such examples validate anything more than the demonstrator having a significant lack of playing ability.
Argue a card's merits and all, but don't go about inventing scenarios to prove your point. Anecdotal evidence doesn't count for much.
+1 Ghostly Possession
-1 Explore
-5 Bonkers with Evolve. (remember simic? yeah. those are her colors.)
Her +1 absolutely dumps on Purphoros and shuts down their biggest fatty. Honestly, I think she is playable. She has an effect on the board against both aggro and control, either slowing opponents down or speeding you up. Me gusta.
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EDH Decks: UBOona, Fae BeaterBU RPurphoros, God of GoblinsR XScion of the Ur-DragonX RWAurelia, the WarwinnerWR UBROprah, the MindrazerUBR
A few things:
-if UG is ever to be good, it is now. It has a few good walkers and a solid backbone creatures (Biomancer, Zegana, Prophet, Polukranos). One a combination of low drops will be figured out, we could have a deck. This card does not fit with the UG Dumptruck deck however.
-My Animar deck is salivating.
This is very cool... certainly better than some intro rare.
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Avatar by Disappointing Signet Inc
EDH Decks UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition) WRKalemne's Angels BRUG Yidris's Wild Party UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys UBRThe Pretender
The rest of the set has yet to be spoiled, so keep an eye out, as if decks start to rely more and more on one finisher (ie; AEtherling) then this kid will be absolutely bonkers.
I see some potential here, but this is a bit of a sore point in my mind. The very first creature I thought of was Aetherling, of course...who completely negates her +1 ability. She targets Aetherling with the +1, opponent blinks Aetherling before your EOT, Aetherling comes back as a new object and is no longer subject to the fog effect, Aetherling smacks Kiora upside the head and eats a cookie while her controller stares at the board and sniffles.
For not-Aetherling beefy finishers, sure. But I would have preferred something like:
"Name a creature card. Until the beginning of your next upkeep, prevent all damage that would be dealt to or dealt by cards with the chosen name."
I realize that unless I'm also using the same beefy finisher as my opponent, this is strictly better than her actual ability, but I don't think it would have been game-breaking and would have let her address the premiere one-man wrecking crew of standard control decks (I think it's obvious that she already doesn't fare well against aggro decks, where fogging any one creature is going to be trivial).
Why does the fish person have boobs at all? Fish don't exactly breast feed their children.
I mean I know the real reason ($$$), but seriously, what kind of storyline reasons could someone who obviously evolved from fish have for having boobs?
Just like it didn't really make sense for any of the phyrexians to have boobs (THEY GROW THEIR KIDS IN VATS), but they still had them.
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You've got a rat in your walls, and cheese won't solve anything.
Kiora is fine and all, but not very exciting for someone who plays eternal. She competes directly with Jace, who does everything she does better, and more, at the same cost. 2UG is marginally easier to assemble than 2UU, but not worth the drop in power. As to standard...? She seems perfectly fair for what she does. Not exciting, but good. Probably slightly less powerful than Chandra Pyromaster, but Standard is so metagame dependent that it's impossible to predict.
Yes, I can agree with you, and, with that being said, does anyone else here feel disappointed by Kiora? She was, perhaps, one of the most highly-anticipated planeswalkers in the game, but I feel that she has not lived up to her hype. Could WotC have designed and executed her better, or was it inevitable that some people would be disappointed with her, because of how great her hype was?
Why does the fish person have boobs at all? Fish don't exactly breast feed their children.
I mean I know the real reason ($$$), but seriously, what kind of storyline reasons could someone who obviously evolved from fish have for having boobs?
Just like it didn't really make sense for any of the phyrexians to have boobs (THEY GROW THEIR KIDS IN VATS), but they still had them.
The best answer that I can give to that question is that the artists have chosen to do that to provide some level of familiarity in the artwork to human players. Humans find appeal in beings that have the appearances of humans, even if those being are not actually human themselves (angels and demons are prime examples of this), so I presume that the same is true with Kiora, as well. Also, while Kiora is an ocean-dwelling being, she appears to be mostly human, with only some aquatic traits, so it is not unreasonable to presume that she is partially or wholly mammalian, rather than piscine (fish-like); please also remember that cetaceans (i.e., dolphins and whales) are acquatic mammals, so it is perfectly reasonable to presume that merfolk are, as well.
Why does the fish person have boobs at all? Fish don't exactly breast feed their children.
I mean I know the real reason ($$$), but seriously, what kind of storyline reasons could someone who obviously evolved from fish have for having boobs?
Just like it didn't really make sense for any of the phyrexians to have boobs (THEY GROW THEIR KIDS IN VATS), but they still had them.
We'll, merfolk in Magic are clearly more human than fish, so maybe they breast feed. Or maybe the breasts are vestigial. Who knows. Either way, it's fantasy, and creatures can be however their creators want them to be, and they don't have to make complete biological sense.
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Level 2 Judge
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Yeah. I'm still trying to work out a TurboFog list for her. Not sure whether it should stay U/G or go BUG. The BUG version is looking to be a "superfriends" sorta control with her (3-4, proly 3), Jace, and Vraska.
Of course, I've always wanted to play a deck with both Sphinx's Rev and Prophet in it as well.
One of the worst planeswalkers in a long time. 4 mana, horribly unpopular colour combination, 2 loyalty? Nobody wants damage prevention on a planeswalker, talk about ugly and unpopular! And if you're trying to accelerate your mana with a spell costing 2UG you're already dead. The ultimate is just to make it interesting to Timmys. It'll tank hard after an initial period of lackluster interest.
One of the worst planeswalkers in a long time. 4 mana, horribly unpopular colour combination, 2 loyalty? Nobody wants damage prevention on a planeswalker, talk about ugly and unpopular! And if you're trying to accelerate your mana with a spell costing 2UG you're already dead. The ultimate is just to make it interesting to Timmys. It'll tank hard after an initial period of lackluster interest.
You must not be familiar with... well, a very large portion of the MTG community. Just because those two colors don't really seem to have top-notch, unfairly and annoyingly good stuff like every Naya-esque or Esper-esque card ever doesn't mean that people don't like it.
I realize that unless I'm also using the same beefy finisher as my opponent, this is strictly better than her actual ability, but I don't think it would have been game-breaking and would have let her address the premiere one-man wrecking crew of standard control decks (I think it's obvious that she already doesn't fare well against aggro decks, where fogging any one creature is going to be trivial).
It's actually not strictly better. It's definitely better since you can now prevent damage by Aetherling and things with haste and cards your opponent may have in multiple, but it stops working against tokens.
Kiora's not the best planeswalker ever printed, but I think she's better than many realize. It's all about playing her correctly.
First, unlike some seem to believe, her +1 cannot hurt your attack, and can sometimes help it. There are times, certainly, when it will not pay to give your opponent an invincible blocker. The solution is simple: save the ability for your postcombat main phase. However, there are situations in which using her +1 before your attack can be a powerful move. Imagine, for instance, that you find yourself in possession of a 3/3 and two 2/2s, while your opponent has a 4/4, a 2/2, and a 1/1 on the board. Without using Kiora's +1, attacking is a bad idea; however, if you use it, the attack becomes a much better proposition.
Second, if you expect removal from your opponent, the correct play is to use her -1. Your opponent will 1-for-1 her with (probably cheaper) removal, but you'll be up a card, and possibly a land. Not a bad use of 4 mana.
If your opponent can deal with her, she'll put you up a card, and maybe a land drop, and if he can't, he's on a clock, and her +1 makes it difficult for him to get ahead of the race. That's not what a bad card looks like.
not good on bant turbo fog.
ok the deck plays well against mono b but cant beat mono u and rb agro.
against esper if you play her with counterspell mana up and she survives until ultimate then it is gg but you know being bad against mono U kills it.
You must not be familiar with... well, a very large portion of the MTG community.
Oh there's one I hadn't heard since...... the last thread in this forum I read. Way to go buddy, you just pulled out the lamest and most overused version of "you don't know how to play Magic" this site has ever seen.
It's a crap card in my opinion. It's the new Wood Sage. Insult my abilities as a mage, if that fulfills your need to elevate this card's status. Doesn't make blue/green a popular 2 colour combination for a card. The only less popular would be white/red imo.
Oh there's one I hadn't heard since...... the last thread in this forum I read. Way to go buddy, you just pulled out the lamest and most overused version of "you don't know how to play Magic" this site has ever seen.
It's a crap card in my opinion. It's the new Wood Sage. Insult my abilities as a mage, if that fulfills your need to elevate this card's status. Doesn't make blue/green a popular 2 colour combination for a card. The only less popular would be white/red imo.
Firstly, I never accused you of not knowing how to play magic. For all I know, you're the best player in the world. I did, however, accuse you of saying things that aren't true.
Secondly, after realizing that you're likely that person who thinks that everyone who's anyone shares your opinion, I do kinda regret feeding the troll now, so I'll just drop this convo and back away slowly trying not to make eye contact...
I see her as a stronger Jace Beleren for 1 more mana. Like people said, she may not be maindeckable until Jace rotates, then its possible since she will be great against control/midrange.
Her +1 is probably better at protecting her than Jace in a ton of matchups. Its comparable to Ajani Vengeants +1
It's a crap card in my opinion. It's the new Wood Sage. Insult my abilities as a mage, if that fulfills your need to elevate this card's status. Doesn't make blue/green a popular 2 colour combination for a card. The only less popular would be white/red imo.
You do realize this has everything to do with WotC's design decisions,
right?
If they printed cards like Maelstrom Pulse or Undermine in GU,
it would be quite a bit more popular.
One look at Kiora's Loyalty should tell you how much of a **** they give about us fans.
As-is, we get the scraps they deign to feed us
when they're done geeking out on their beloved GR, GB, and WU.
Forgive us if we want to be happy over something that took them years to get around to.
Man, a (G/B) fan ripping on (G/U) fans right now is pretty low.
You get cards like Abrupt Decay and we're supposed to be happy with crap like Mystic Genesis
(and fewer than half the number of potential Commanders).
Let us have ONE FREAKING MINUTE of happiness, please.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
You do realize this has everything to do with WotC's design decisions,
right?
If they printed cards like Maelstrom Pulse or Undermine in GU,
it would be quite a bit more popular.
One look at Kiora's Loyalty should tell you how much of a **** they give about us fans.
As-is, we get the scraps they deign to feed us
when they're done geeking out on their beloved GR, GB, and WU.
Forgive us if we want to be happy over something that took them years to get around to.
Man, a (G/B) fan ripping on (G/U) fans right now is pretty low.
You get cards like Abrupt Decay and we're supposed to be happy with crap like Mystic Genesis
(and fewer than half the number of potential Commanders).
Let us have ONE FREAKING MINUTE of happiness, please.
It's okay, he said Boros was less popular than Simic. His opinion is now rendered invalid due to lack of intelligence.
Argue a card's merits and all, but don't go about inventing scenarios to prove your point. Anecdotal evidence doesn't count for much.
-1 Explore
-5 Bonkers with Evolve. (remember simic? yeah. those are her colors.)
Her +1 absolutely dumps on Purphoros and shuts down their biggest fatty. Honestly, I think she is playable. She has an effect on the board against both aggro and control, either slowing opponents down or speeding you up. Me gusta.
UBOona, Fae BeaterBU
RPurphoros, God of GoblinsR
XScion of the Ur-DragonX
RWAurelia, the WarwinnerWR
UBROprah, the MindrazerUBR
-if UG is ever to be good, it is now. It has a few good walkers and a solid backbone creatures (Biomancer, Zegana, Prophet, Polukranos). One a combination of low drops will be figured out, we could have a deck. This card does not fit with the UG Dumptruck deck however.
-My Animar deck is salivating.
This is very cool... certainly better than some intro rare.
EDH Decks
UWB Oloro, Ageless Ascetic's spring of life
RUG Animar, Soul of the Elements and friends... lots of them
WBG Karador king of two worlds (value and attrition)
WRKalemne's Angels
BRUG Yidris's Wild Party
UWBR Breya's Terrifying Tinker Toys
UBR The Pretender
I see some potential here, but this is a bit of a sore point in my mind. The very first creature I thought of was Aetherling, of course...who completely negates her +1 ability. She targets Aetherling with the +1, opponent blinks Aetherling before your EOT, Aetherling comes back as a new object and is no longer subject to the fog effect, Aetherling smacks Kiora upside the head and eats a cookie while her controller stares at the board and sniffles.
For not-Aetherling beefy finishers, sure. But I would have preferred something like:
I realize that unless I'm also using the same beefy finisher as my opponent, this is strictly better than her actual ability, but I don't think it would have been game-breaking and would have let her address the premiere one-man wrecking crew of standard control decks (I think it's obvious that she already doesn't fare well against aggro decks, where fogging any one creature is going to be trivial).
I mean I know the real reason ($$$), but seriously, what kind of storyline reasons could someone who obviously evolved from fish have for having boobs?
Just like it didn't really make sense for any of the phyrexians to have boobs (THEY GROW THEIR KIDS IN VATS), but they still had them.
Yes, I can agree with you, and, with that being said, does anyone else here feel disappointed by Kiora? She was, perhaps, one of the most highly-anticipated planeswalkers in the game, but I feel that she has not lived up to her hype. Could WotC have designed and executed her better, or was it inevitable that some people would be disappointed with her, because of how great her hype was?
The best answer that I can give to that question is that the artists have chosen to do that to provide some level of familiarity in the artwork to human players. Humans find appeal in beings that have the appearances of humans, even if those being are not actually human themselves (angels and demons are prime examples of this), so I presume that the same is true with Kiora, as well. Also, while Kiora is an ocean-dwelling being, she appears to be mostly human, with only some aquatic traits, so it is not unreasonable to presume that she is partially or wholly mammalian, rather than piscine (fish-like); please also remember that cetaceans (i.e., dolphins and whales) are acquatic mammals, so it is perfectly reasonable to presume that merfolk are, as well.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
Evolution is a strange mistress.
Currently playing:
Standard: Superfriends!
Legacy: Nic Fit / Pod
Pauper: Delvar; Tron; Flicker Stuff
Commander: Riku ("Some weird doubple spell thing happened"); Keranos ("I did a Gatherer search for 'random' and 'flip a coin.'"); Superfriends!
Of course, I've always wanted to play a deck with both Sphinx's Rev and Prophet in it as well.
.
You must not be familiar with... well, a very large portion of the MTG community. Just because those two colors don't really seem to have top-notch, unfairly and annoyingly good stuff like every Naya-esque or Esper-esque card ever doesn't mean that people don't like it.
It's actually not strictly better. It's definitely better since you can now prevent damage by Aetherling and things with haste and cards your opponent may have in multiple, but it stops working against tokens.
First, unlike some seem to believe, her +1 cannot hurt your attack, and can sometimes help it. There are times, certainly, when it will not pay to give your opponent an invincible blocker. The solution is simple: save the ability for your postcombat main phase. However, there are situations in which using her +1 before your attack can be a powerful move. Imagine, for instance, that you find yourself in possession of a 3/3 and two 2/2s, while your opponent has a 4/4, a 2/2, and a 1/1 on the board. Without using Kiora's +1, attacking is a bad idea; however, if you use it, the attack becomes a much better proposition.
Second, if you expect removal from your opponent, the correct play is to use her -1. Your opponent will 1-for-1 her with (probably cheaper) removal, but you'll be up a card, and possibly a land. Not a bad use of 4 mana.
If your opponent can deal with her, she'll put you up a card, and maybe a land drop, and if he can't, he's on a clock, and her +1 makes it difficult for him to get ahead of the race. That's not what a bad card looks like.
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
not good on bant turbo fog.
ok the deck plays well against mono b but cant beat mono u and rb agro.
against esper if you play her with counterspell mana up and she survives until ultimate then it is gg but you know being bad against mono U kills it.
Oh there's one I hadn't heard since...... the last thread in this forum I read. Way to go buddy, you just pulled out the lamest and most overused version of "you don't know how to play Magic" this site has ever seen.
It's a crap card in my opinion. It's the new Wood Sage. Insult my abilities as a mage, if that fulfills your need to elevate this card's status. Doesn't make blue/green a popular 2 colour combination for a card. The only less popular would be white/red imo.
.
Firstly, I never accused you of not knowing how to play magic. For all I know, you're the best player in the world. I did, however, accuse you of saying things that aren't true.
Secondly, after realizing that you're likely that person who thinks that everyone who's anyone shares your opinion, I do kinda regret feeding the troll now, so I'll just drop this convo and back away slowly trying not to make eye contact...
Her +1 is probably better at protecting her than Jace in a ton of matchups. Its comparable to Ajani Vengeants +1
You do realize this has everything to do with WotC's design decisions,
right?
If they printed cards like Maelstrom Pulse or Undermine in GU,
it would be quite a bit more popular.
One look at Kiora's Loyalty should tell you how much of a **** they give about us fans.
As-is, we get the scraps they deign to feed us
when they're done geeking out on their beloved GR, GB, and WU.
Forgive us if we want to be happy over something that took them years to get around to.
Man, a (G/B) fan ripping on (G/U) fans right now is pretty low.
You get cards like Abrupt Decay and we're supposed to be happy with crap like Mystic Genesis
(and fewer than half the number of potential Commanders).
Let us have ONE FREAKING MINUTE of happiness, please.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It's okay, he said Boros was less popular than Simic. His opinion is now rendered invalid due to lack of intelligence.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Skullcrack is already played in a ton of standard and modern decks both mainboard and side.