While Kiora is pretty good, I still think you are wrong: cards get better when card pool shrinks and almost never when it expands.
Which is why I said she'll be around when a block and core rotate out. Core 2014 and RtR block will be gone, all of Theros will be in and Huey will hit the scene. Kiora will find her deck, just like those other cards who saw no play until Innistrad rotated out.
Kiora seems like a weird sort of walker because her ult is so much better than her normal abilities. She really makes you rush her to 5 and then pop her. She'd be a good finisher for some kind of niche combo deck based on proliferate abuse, or maybe a new Turbofog variant. I'm not sure how to evaluate her -1 yet, but it plays nice with ETBT lands like the Temples.
seems a little on the weak side but can't rule it out yet.
The explore ability is quite good but costing a loyalty and only starting with 2 is harsh. The other ability is a decent protection spell. Overall not very strong but the abilities at least synergize well together, if the coast is clear the explore ability is really strong and against a single target you can neutralize it pretty well. If this had a bit more loyalty it would have been fine I think now it;s a little weak but potentially playable.
If you activate her minus ability she dies to most removal. The opponent needs only deal 1 damage to her. I am sure most players, save the controlling ones, can deal 1 damage to her easy.
The fact that people are saying she is great is baffling as she is a joke. Whoever developed her should be fired because they have no idea how to design a mythic. Mythic rarity was created to separate the amazing rares from the not so amazing ones. That is being blurred now because of cards like her.
"Planeswalkers are among the most powerful beings in the multiverse, and are the thematic identities of the players of the game. " pulled from the mtg wiki
Your telling me that a planeswalker, what are close to godly power, can die to cheap removal? Her weight is nothing, you won't see her in modern or legacy. Your telling me that Wizards made a mythic that is only a draft bomb? Wow that makes it sound like the only way I will enjoy playing her is if I pay wizards to allow me to enjoy playing her. Yeah cause that makes sense....
No deck in standard or in modern at the moment has to sideboard to deal with her. None of them do, the fact that you think she is going to change the game is silly. I have proved this in an earlier post where I named the cards, in each of the top 8 modern to standard decks at the last respective tourneys from the wizards website, that could deal with her.
Wizards are handing us a card that we know will be expensive because of availability costs and we are supposed to enjoy it because it's mythic? I'd rather have another broken set like saga! At least then I'd have some fun.
This is the kinda stuff that makes me want to quit magic and stick to hearthstone at least in hearthstone I get cards for free.
Wow friend, i think yo uneed to calm down. I'm actually surprised how quickly you jumped to such a raging post like this just because people don't share your views
>I PROVED THAT GOOD DECKS RUN REMOVAL
good job.
anyway, i do agree she should have started with 3 counters, though i see there's also reasons why she's stuck with 2
She seems like a good diversion since her ult is reachable and the +1 is ok (but crap against Aggro--that's no secret) as in, she needs to be answered asap. Like, the fact that dying to removal is relevant means she's too good to be left alone for long, and that's one less removal spell i'll have to worry about for later threats
plus, you could always NOT play her asap, waiting for, say, Prophet of Kruphix and counterspells like Negate and Dispel and then dropping her T5 or 6. And even then, i'd have a better board to defend her with regardless
I'd probably get 2 (3 if she's cheap), putting one MD and the other in the side, since she isn't COMPLETELY necessary and it doesn't disrupt the cardflow G1, even against aggro (it anything, it just paints a target on herself and not you)
The cards just perfect for any "blue/green" Turbo Fog deck of the past.
You know, the kind of deck that ramps and fogs, then Time Warps / Time Warps till infinity.
This card works good in that kind of deck.
You use it to ramp AND draw cards, fuel your fogs (which finally protect her of damage) , she can fog a single creature all by herself and if you Time Warp into her ultimate, you pretty much win the game.
That said, its as much of a Turbo Fog Planeswalker as you can get.
Going down with the silly powerlevel of planeswalkers is a good thing. They should be good, but not "you must play them" kind of cards.
Most or all of the most successful PWs are those who are able to protect themselves, and Kiora is. The Bolt/Strike argument is only relevant in Modern (though backbreakingly so), as Strike isn't played that much in Std. Obviously she'd be better with a higher loyalty, but she'd have to have poorer abilities or higher CMC. She also lends herself to decks where she'll be played late with mana open for a counter. She'll at the very least be good in Bant control if that turns out to be a deck.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Everything that plays lands is good with Lotus Cobra.
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712.5b The controller of another player can't make choices or decisions for that player that aren't called for by the rules or by any objects. The controller also can't make any choices or decisions for the player that would be called for by the tournament rules.
Example: The player who's being controlled still chooses whether he or she leaves to visit the restroom, trades a card to someone else, agrees to an intentional draw, or calls a judge about an error or infraction.
Many saw that she's good, but a lot of people wrote things like "might see some play", "nothing special", "no impact on Standard", "expensive", "would be good if she cost 1 less", "bad", "lackluster", "decent". Very useful to gain some perspective on this thread.
Many saw that she's good, but a lot of people wrote things like "might see some play", "nothing special", "no impact on Standard", "expensive", "would be good if she cost 1 less", "bad", "lackluster", "decent". Very useful to gain some perspective on this thread.
She actually did start seeing less and less standard play though. Control decks just weren't getting enough out of her (I still loved playing with her though).
I feel like you'd need such a dead board state for Kiona to actually do anything productive. Still want the card for the art though.
She actually did start seeing less and less standard play though. Control decks just weren't getting enough out of her (I still loved playing with her though).
I feel like you'd need such a dead board state for Kiona to actually do anything productive. Still want the card for the art though.
Proxied her up and tested her in my Simic list against AiR, MonoBlack and MonoBlue. She's very, very good against monoBlack, okay against AiR after dropping Jace beforehand, and painfully useless against monou. Overall I'm pleased with her.
This is why plenty of people aren't impressed yet with this PW. Needing Jace beforehand to be useful is garbage. Painfully useless against a top two deck is BAD. My testing does not have her as a very strong play against MBD either. Bad against both rats and specters early. Not the strongest play against the strength of their deck either(connections and grey merchant).
This doesn't mean that this card cannot be good. It does work well after a verdict. It can find uses in a Bant super friends deck. The new set may bring cards to add even more uses for it. It's just very underpowered to what we have gotten lately from Chandra, Elspeth, and Garruk. It's also in a lightly played color scheme for this current meta. Weak PW's that need to be played around are usually much less desirable and useful than ones that are powerful solo and in many different decks.
Kiora will be a meta-dependent card. If there are a lot of lightning strikes and/or the meta is dominated by swarms of small creatures she will be bad and jace will be the 4-drop walker. She's a perfectly fine play against midrange and control decks.
I feel like a lot of the backlash is like what Chandra faced; a ton of hype and we get a card that is fine but doesn't deliver to that level of hype. She won't warp standard and will probably not see play in modern, but you'll find standard decks that want her as a 2-of, maybe 3.
Pretty much anyone outside of Jace could be RG for the next RG walker. Sarkhan could go back to his roots, we could get a four-ability Domri, The Fight Sculptor, maybe Koth could take up gardening, even Ral Zarek could become a hippie after smoking some dank Golgari rotweeds.
Great, more power mad judges tripping out over inconsequential nonsense. Please, measure my lands again with a protractor to make sure I tapped them exactly 90 degrees. No fancy electronic playmats? What is this, 1995?
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Which is why I said she'll be around when a block and core rotate out. Core 2014 and RtR block will be gone, all of Theros will be in and Huey will hit the scene. Kiora will find her deck, just like those other cards who saw no play until Innistrad rotated out.
The explore ability is quite good but costing a loyalty and only starting with 2 is harsh. The other ability is a decent protection spell. Overall not very strong but the abilities at least synergize well together, if the coast is clear the explore ability is really strong and against a single target you can neutralize it pretty well. If this had a bit more loyalty it would have been fine I think now it;s a little weak but potentially playable.
RGGruul Aggro
WSoul Sisters
WBTokens
BUGRRestore Balance
BMono-Black Infect
EDH:
RGWMayael, the Anima
GWURoon of the Hidden Realm
BDrana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Wow friend, i think yo uneed to calm down. I'm actually surprised how quickly you jumped to such a raging post like this just because people don't share your views
>I PROVED THAT GOOD DECKS RUN REMOVAL
good job.
anyway, i do agree she should have started with 3 counters, though i see there's also reasons why she's stuck with 2
She seems like a good diversion since her ult is reachable and the +1 is ok (but crap against Aggro--that's no secret) as in, she needs to be answered asap. Like, the fact that dying to removal is relevant means she's too good to be left alone for long, and that's one less removal spell i'll have to worry about for later threats
plus, you could always NOT play her asap, waiting for, say, Prophet of Kruphix and counterspells like Negate and Dispel and then dropping her T5 or 6. And even then, i'd have a better board to defend her with regardless
I'd probably get 2 (3 if she's cheap), putting one MD and the other in the side, since she isn't COMPLETELY necessary and it doesn't disrupt the cardflow G1, even against aggro (it anything, it just paints a target on herself and not you)
enchanting Witchstalker with Raised by Wolves
You know, the kind of deck that ramps and fogs, then Time Warps / Time Warps till infinity.
This card works good in that kind of deck.
You use it to ramp AND draw cards, fuel your fogs (which finally protect her of damage) , she can fog a single creature all by herself and if you Time Warp into her ultimate, you pretty much win the game.
That said, its as much of a Turbo Fog Planeswalker as you can get.
Going down with the silly powerlevel of planeswalkers is a good thing. They should be good, but not "you must play them" kind of cards.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Which means I'll probably still play her.
I was Golgari before it was cool.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Her +1 can totally nullify Red Planeswalkers, Gideon attacks and stuff like Shrine of Burning Rage.
Her ultimate is... ultimate.
Keep her colors in mind in regards to low loyalty: Gilder Bairn, Fog, Sleep etc...
Example: The player who's being controlled still chooses whether he or she leaves to visit the restroom, trades a card to someone else, agrees to an intentional draw, or calls a judge about an error or infraction.
How about this?
Still looks a little slippery and fishy to me ...
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👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=407625&highlight=tamiyo
Many saw that she's good, but a lot of people wrote things like "might see some play", "nothing special", "no impact on Standard", "expensive", "would be good if she cost 1 less", "bad", "lackluster", "decent". Very useful to gain some perspective on this thread.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Not to mention the rumors of a White/Green Ajani ...
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She actually did start seeing less and less standard play though. Control decks just weren't getting enough out of her (I still loved playing with her though).
I feel like you'd need such a dead board state for Kiona to actually do anything productive. Still want the card for the art though.
You mean like right after a supreme verdict?
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
3 Kiora
2 Elspeth
4 Jace
4 Hindervines
4 Fog
4 Druids deliverance
4 supreme verdict
4 detention sphere
3 sphinx revelation
2 aetherize
Xx lands
Sb:
4 dissolve
2 gain say
2 negate
3 glare of hearsay
4 pitching needle
Close to what I've been testing.
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
This is why plenty of people aren't impressed yet with this PW. Needing Jace beforehand to be useful is garbage. Painfully useless against a top two deck is BAD. My testing does not have her as a very strong play against MBD either. Bad against both rats and specters early. Not the strongest play against the strength of their deck either(connections and grey merchant).
This doesn't mean that this card cannot be good. It does work well after a verdict. It can find uses in a Bant super friends deck. The new set may bring cards to add even more uses for it. It's just very underpowered to what we have gotten lately from Chandra, Elspeth, and Garruk. It's also in a lightly played color scheme for this current meta. Weak PW's that need to be played around are usually much less desirable and useful than ones that are powerful solo and in many different decks.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I feel like a lot of the backlash is like what Chandra faced; a ton of hype and we get a card that is fine but doesn't deliver to that level of hype. She won't warp standard and will probably not see play in modern, but you'll find standard decks that want her as a 2-of, maybe 3.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)