Liliana of the Veil is quite common (and a card I despise with a deep passion), but not as common as Path To Exile. Perhaps it's a meta thing, but PTE is the Force of Will of Modern. Goyf is the only prevalent card in the meta that can (potentially) chump Inkwell, but Inkwell can just Islandwalk over him anyway, he can also block Goyf. America is rough, because that deck runs Path To Exile and Supreme Verdict.
Cheating in a Wurmcoil Engine on turn 4 at the earliest isn't worth it, and doesn't make any sense. There are other decks that can cast 6 and 7 drops on turn 3 or 4 consistently. The entire point of cheating in a card is to win the game quickly and easily. This is especially true when you build an entire deck around a combo that cheats a card into play. Wurmcoil Engine doesn't do that at all. It's a 6/6 that's vulnerable to a crap ton of removal, it also doesn't fly or trample.
Inkwell goes to the graveyard was less frequently than Wurmcoil gets exiled or bounced, or Blightsteel gets exiled or bounced. That's the point I'm making. Liliana is a rough card we have to deal with, she makes us sacrifice Blightsteel also. Keep in mind, if you have mana open, like on turn 5, you can beat Liliana by activating Inkmoth Nexus and sacrificing one of those instead of our win condition.
I disagree with you about Emperion, it loses or is easily removed in most match ups and doesn't dominate enough match ups to deserve a spot in the 15. I still can see where you are coming from though.
Hey nice primer and great to hear you are getting results with the deck
I have thought about making a Shape Anew deck before and I think its a really cool deck. However I do have some constructive criticism so please don't take this the wrong way if I in any way come across harsh. Firstly, is it really worth playing Darksteel Relic? Having relic in the deck means if relic is in your opening hand, then drawing 6 cards in your deck (Trinket Mages & Fabricates) are essentially drawing bricks. Secondly, if Darksteel Relic is ever countered, Thoughtseized, or in the worst case exiled with Shattering Blow, then you will have no other artifacts to tutor for (again 6 bricks).
Why not alleviate these concerns by playing more combo pieces:
The constructive criticism is great. Darksteel Relic is great because it's so resilient. It doesn't get hit by artifact removal which is VERY common in sideboards in the format. They can't Naturalize our Darksteel Relic in response to us casting Shape Anew. It also comes down for zero which means we can combo early. It's very unlikely it will get discarded, and if it happens and we can't Buried Ruin it, there's also Inkmoths we can sacrifice or win with. If we get Darksteel Relic in our opening hand, I see it as a great thing because it means we just need to draw and cast Shape Anew. Trinket Mage isn't "dead" by the way.
I think Blinkmoth Nexus is interesting. I wouldn't want to run all 8, because I want to be able to get the blue mana, espeically for Disperse, but just in general, I don't want to have to mulligan a lot. As for Polymorph, that's a different deck, you might as well just Polymorph Eldrazi. However, what I like about Blombo is it's very very very consistent, and once Darksteel Relic resolves, our opponent starts sweating bullets.
I guess I'm not 100% opposed to splashing, but I do like the consistency running mono blue gives us, if I were to splash, it would have to fundamentally make the deck better.
I think that tolaria west is a must include for this deck. It lets you have 5-6 copies of your combo pieces without contributing to the artifact count.
I would personally rather run 1 darksteel citadel/1 darksteel relic and 4 tolaria west actually.
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I think that tolaria west is a must include for this deck. It lets you have 5-6 copies of your combo pieces without contributing to the artifact count.
I would personally rather run 1 darksteel citadel/1 darksteel relic and 4 tolaria west actually.
Wow, didn't think of Tolaria West. In fact, come to think of it, the transmute can't be countered if I am not mistaken. So it's essentially strictly better than Fabricate. At the same time, Peer Though Depths misses Tolaria West but finds Fabricate. Is that significant?
I think Darksteel Relic is better than Darksteel Citadel. I can't remember why, but I'm pretty sure I considered running Citadel over Relic but Relic made more sense. Maybe it was because there were some instances where I'd want to play the Relic right away. So if it were turn 3, and I played an Island, and then I played Trinket Mage if I were to fetch the Relic, I could play it, where with the Citadel, I would have to wait a turn. I can't see why that would matter too much though, because IOK, TS, and Duress all can't grand Darksteel Citadel. Is Darksteel Citadel strictly better than Darksteel Relic?
Citadel saves you a "draw" where as you would in theory need 4 lands and relic to go off you need 3 lands + citadel to go off. It just saves hand space really. You'd basically want to T1-T2 tempo/filter T3 fetch citadel T4 go off.
I think a package of
2 T. West
4 Trinket Mage
1 Citadel
Is pretty good and even.
Also as you said you can't lose your citadel to discard which can be important.
I would personally exchange fabricate for T. west and make room for some merchant scroll or serum visions. IMO the deck looks pretty good and is fast enough to compete. remand is pretty great since it'll timewalk and cantrip for you so you can beat early game which matters to this deck.
T. West has the added bonus of being able to fetch singleton copies of academy ruins and buried ruin to reset your combo if things go south.
SB dispel to protect your newly reanimated finisher/protect your combo is pretty important too. I think this deck is probably better positioned than the proteus staff/polymorph version simply because the artifact target is near impossible to kill.
I think splashing for bladesplicer gives you some better game against aggro in general. It also acts as a good way to get your polymorph online. Additionally, white lets you use a better alt wincon in colonnade and makes your SB ridiculously powerful.
I haven't tested yet but I'm on the fence between Path and more counterspells. I think we're going for something analogous to the package Twin would pack.
As for your idea with Tolaria, Jeff, I think it's not bad. I originally ran them, but I was hitting them when I needed a real land and had Fabricate in hand. 4 was too many, so 2 may be the right number.
Unfortunately, Citadel is too much of a risk to run, even as a one of: They only difference between it and Relic is that Citadel has an extra card type and can tap for one colorless. Sure, it's technically better than Relic, but we can't run both. There are things that don't change with this deck, and that is that the cards that tutor go off turn 3, and the combo goes off turn 4 at it's soonest (though depending on the situation it may be better to wait a turn or two until you know your opponent has exhausted all their answers). When we go off, Anew is not a Reshape: we can't just pick, it has to be revealed from the library, and therefore our Citadel could become a Relic, or vice versa. Sure, maybe we could still come back from that, but it gives our opponent at least 2 more free turns in a format that has consistent T4 wins and decks that can recover quick after the control deck runs out of steam.
I could see replacing Relic with Citadel, but something tells that if it got discarded, this format would force us to flat-out lose (I believe the card begins with 'Death', end with 'Shaman', and his 'rite' int he middle). Sure, things like Scooze, Leyline of the Void, and RiP do that anyway, but Deathrite is the most prominent. Not to mention a simple T2 Stony could put us in a certain situation where we can't tap Citadel for the mana we desperately need. Anything short of countering, exiling, or bouncing Relic doesn't stop us. Plus, land denial is a thing, and they could technically put us into a situation where we have to sac Citadel and keep us from getting two mana for Buried.
Serum is okay for other decks, but we NEED to slow them down early game. Our opponent cannot be allowed to do whatever it is they do. Being a sorcery forces us to cast this on our turn, with the potential of not having mana open for that Dissolve we needed to cast. Nearly all our digging spells are instant speed, allowing us to dig on their end step should they not do anything worth countering. Remand does seem good, but after all the tests I ran with it, it just never stopped the opponent in their tracks like a true hard-counter does. Most decks I faced actually did not care, shrugged it off and cast it next turn and went off...that being T3. Scroll is not needed, as we have enough dig and sifting, as well as deck setup to make sure we get what we need. As for your take on the deck, I feel like the Splicers are just gonna clog it up, as with the proper amount of digging we already have all the options we need for the combo.
So Honor, I see you still insist on Buried over Academy, but I feel I should point something out: what happens when Blightsteel gets Slaughter Games? Or he gets milled/discarded, and in response to the trigger Extirpate/Surgical Extraction? We then have to rely on the weaker wincon, Inkwell. What if he hits the yard as well? Sure, we can Buried him into our hand...but our we ever gonna cast him? Not likely, we'll lose before that. And if we do, he can simply be countered or wiped at this point in the game, as we've already been set back. So...now what? Beat them with Inkmoths and pray to win? Nah, I don't think that's our last resort...
Since your list already only runs one Buried, just swap it for one Academy, since this makes us not worry about it's legendary status. It also taps for one colorless, and while yes it needs one blue for the activation (which is hard in a mono-blue deck?), it's not good for only one use. Add to the fact that it doesn't go to our hand, and it's safe from certain removal. Then, we can setup whether we wanna draw it again or not, or maybe just put it back in. It's just much more versatile.
We REALLY need to work on sideboard for this, and for goodness sake change the name! Blombo is so ugly and fits any blue combo deck, we are superior as we run artifacts. Go ahead and name it after my idea, Anew Perspective. It's much more elegant and inviting. I mean, you posted the whole deck already, the least you can do is claim the better name.
I think Blinkmoth Nexus is interesting. I wouldn't want to run all 8, because I want to be able to get the blue mana, espeically for Disperse, but just in general, I don't want to have to mulligan a lot. As for Polymorph, that's a different deck, you might as well just Polymorph Eldrazi. However, what I like about Blombo is it's very very very consistent, and once Darksteel Relic resolves, our opponent starts sweating bullets.
Yes I do agree, running 8 colorless, non-basic, manlands as the only artifacts puts the deck extremely vulnerable to LD and Blood Moon. It will also make it pretty difficult to cast Cryptic Command reliably on turn 4. Like you mentioned, Polymorph (and Proteus Staff) do work better with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn which is covered in the PolyStaff Primer. However, I do like having both Shape Anew and Polymorph in the deck. A T3 Slaughter Games off Deathrite Shaman shuts the deck down.
I guess I'm not 100% opposed to splashing, but I do like the consistency running mono blue gives us, if I were to splash, it would have to fundamentally make the deck better.
Yes I do agree, running 8 colorless, non-basic, manlands as the only artifacts puts the deck extremely vulnerable to LD and Blood Moon. It will also make it pretty difficult to cast Cryptic Command reliably on turn 4. Like you mentioned, Polymorph (and Proteus Staff) do work better with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn which is covered in the PolyStaff Primer. However, I do like having both Shape Anew and Polymorph in the deck. A T3 Slaughter Games off Deathrite Shaman shuts the deck down.
Our answers to Lili here are simply not letting her resolve, which seems like the best choice here. Blue is the primary control color, and everything this deck needs can be found without expanding into other colors and makes things unnecessarily complex.
As for DrS, he is a problem, but a T3 Games isn't always a guarantee. I'm pretty sure that would imply that we've already won the first game, as I'm sure Games isn't run in Jund's mainboard. Poly would be okay, but it forces us to run more manlands just to make it viable, which opens us up to other issues we didn't have before (chances of not hitting enough blue mana, Blood Moon, etc). If only Reweave wasn't so painfully expensive, and if only Thought Dissector wasn't so limited...
I'm not sure how often we would encounter a situation like this, but early-game hand disruption is VERY common. Maybe 2-3 Sanctity in the side?
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Jeffww, I'm pretty sure you are right about Darksteel Citadel being better than Darksteel Relic, sometime this week I will create a changes section in the original thread and I'll put Citadel in the list and move Relic to the alternative options. I can't think of any reason not to run Darksteel Citadel, it can't get hit by targeted discard, it doesn't get hit by Ghost Quarter, it makes it so we are less likely to get land starved and it doesn't slow us down.
Tolaria West and Darksteel Citadel are game changers, once again, excellent suggestions. Here's what I'm thinking changes wise for the new version of the deck. Does it look better/more consistent?
More or less the same deck, with nearly everything mentioned here listed, plus it looks all fancy...which means people will look at it instead of this...which means this is useless...which means this is a dead thread.
I guess the mods can come lock this now, I really could care less what happens with this.
Tested a few games using this list against my melira pod deck (fully powered, non budget).
G1
Easy game.
Opening hand: Mystic gate, Academy ruins, Colonnade, Remand, cryptic, gitaxian probe, shape anew. Drew naturally into a trinket mage. Pod decays the mage to get in a few hits from an early voice. I have to play my shape anew at sorcery speed. Gives me a T4 colossus and win by T6.
Almost lost this game to a phyrexian metamorph. The opener remand saved me.
G2
Pod Sides in 3x thoughtseize 2x path to exile. Taking out 2x abrupt decay 1x orzhov pontif, 1x qasali pridemage.
Didn't see any of the SB tech. Shape anew flips a T4 inkwell. Won very closely using him. Got lucky and flipped the inkwell against a board with melira out and an active pod. Had to remand a phyrexian metamorph next turn. Used merchant scroll on T5 to fetch another remand. Remand a combo completing chord and win on T7.
What's good about citadel and why I do not run relic:
You only need 3 lands to go off with this deck. Citadel will almost always be your fourth land. The deck curves so well it's obscene:
T1- Do nothing, Peek, visions, probe
T2- Hold for remand. use merchant scroll, peek/probe
T3- Tolarian academy, trinket mage, blade splicer
T4- Shape anew
T5-7- Beat face
Other pros of the deck include the fact it's almost immune to discard. You have so many ways to grab shape anew and your citadel is discard proof. Plus shape anew is instant speed. That alone makes it better than polymorph and almost as powerful as any other Tier 1 combo deck in the format.
I would probably put 1x inkwell and 1x colossus in the side though in case you go against a sweeper heavy or path to exile heavy deck. Snapcaster mage might be important to the deck as well. Don't know yet. I think repeal/gigadrowse and swan song have very deserved places in the SB. We could also go the route of a transformational SB and pack 2x colonnade, 4x snapcaster, 4x restoration angel, 4x mana leak and 1x sword of X and Y.
Also we can possibly take out blade splicer for master's call. Although I like the first strike capability. But if we used master's call I would put peer through depths back in and take out some of the subpar dig like peek/probe.
EOT peer into EOT call into EOT shape anew is pretty sexy. Of coures if you did this route you wouldn't want the transformational SB.
Pegaso5, I think I like Repeal and it's certainly worth testing. It just can't bounce big things like Into The Roil can and I don't know if I like that.
Reweave is pretty bad, the instant speed is nice, but we can't afford to be comboing off at turn 6 at the latest.
Jeffww, I like your list, keep testing it and tweaking, if you don't mind, I'd like to eventually put your list as an alternate one in the primer. I must say, I can't test your list because it's way out of my budget, fetches, and V Clique, and an expensive land base.
You say Shape Anew is instead speed but it isn't, is there some interaction I'm missing? What are you talking about? I'm not sure how I feel about Cryptic Command, it's good, but it's at the same CMC as Shape Anew, and I feel we want to use our disruption and permission the most before turn 4.
Using Blade Splicer as alternate copies of Fabricate is very smart, but I don't know if like it because it's not as resilient. Can't they just Path to Exile your Golem token in response to you using Shape Anew? I understand the same could be said about using Inkmoth Nexus as an alternate Shape Anew target, but less things can target it because it is a land, and doesn't actually take up slots in the list because it's a land.
What's the Academy Ruins for? Is Merchant Scroll really better than Peer Through Depths? Master's Call is actually very interesting, and very hard for the opponent to disrupt because it summons two artifacts at instant speed. If I had to splash white, it would be for that card.
I'm not sure how I feel about the CMC 1 stuff, I feel Serum Visions is very overrated. Peek and Probe could be really good here though, especially if you want to run artifacts aside from the land.
Splashing white certainly brings interesting options to the table, although for now, I think I'll stick with mono blue. My LGS is hosting a little Thursday Night Magic thing, I'll be sure to play several games against a wide array of deck types and report back.
Lastly, an open question, how do people feel about Telling Time?
I personally like academy ruins because it can let you put inkwell back ontop of your library where you can cheat it if you had another shape anew. You can't do it with buried ruins. You could still probably get away with one of each though.
Telling time is really excellent for combo decks too. I think it deserves a slot. And yes it probably is better than serum visions anyways. Always hated it in scapeshift :\
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I like the theory craft on this deck. What it really needs is a mana accelerator. Not many choices for U other than artifacts and Deranged Assistant which is a horrible choice.
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Glad to see someone playing this combo!! A friend of mine actually played a very similar list. A couple of thuoghts:
Why the split between Blightsteel/Leviathan?? Leviathan, although resilient to Path to Exile, will need some time to end the game, and as you won't be able to choose which one you Shape Anew into, I don't think it's that good to run one maindeck. Also, with Path seeing less play than before nowadays, you could just put 2 Leviathans in the sideboard against Path decks, and get there with 2 Blightsteel main (I feel it's quite better to be able to close the game in one swing than the ocassional protection from path. Inkwell will almost always need 4 hits to end it if the opponent can block it once). Also, as the deck is monoblue, my friend ran Disrupting Shoal with very good results against removal, though I think he ran cantrips; your list doesn't have another 1 CMC other than Condescend (Dispel or Mizzium Skin could work too).
Thirst for knowledge could be quite good, even though this is not an artifact heavy deck. It does dig some cards, and sometimes you can even discard a Blightsteel to get some value and reshuffle him. It being an instant is great with that many counters.
I would try to fit some Cryptic Commands somewhere, that card is just so goddamn versatile...
I love the idea!! Never underestimate Inkmoth hehe, I've died to them more than once...
I personally like academy ruins because it can let you put inkwell back ontop of your library where you can cheat it if you had another shape anew. You can't do it with buried ruins. You could still probably get away with one of each though.
Telling time is really excellent for combo decks too. I think it deserves a slot. And yes it probably is better than serum visions anyways. Always hated it in scapeshift :\
You know, one advantage Tolaria West has over Fabricate that I didn't think of is that it is immune to targeted discard. I'm beginning to think more and more that it should entirely replace Fabricate. At the same time, I was goldfishing with some different lists, and the Peer Through Depths + Fabricate synergy is real.
The list looks good, Master's Call is a good reason to splash white, it really is. I love Celestial Colonnade as much as the next guy, but this is not the type of deck where we want to be in the position where we could have played a 4 drop on turn 4, but we couldn't because our top draw was a Celestial Colonnade instead of an Island. V Clique is another great card that normally works in any blue deck, but running more permission makes more sense. I really think Condescend is mandatory. Early game, it's like a better Remand in this deck.
I like Telling Time a lot, but right now, your deck doesn't have a way to shuffle your win conditions back in. That's why I feel See Beyond is so crucial. If you draw Blightsteel in your opening draw, and then later top draw Inkwell before you can combo, you are really going to be in bad shape.
I like the theory craft on this deck. What it really needs is a mana accelerator. Not many choices for U other than artifacts and Deranged Assistant which is a horrible choice.
I'm enjoying the theory crafting as well, lot of good ideas going around. I don't think a mana accelerator is entirely necessary, it's already pretty fast, but you could always try Silver Myr, it's much better than Deranged Assistant. Feel free to test it out and let us know how it goes.
Glad to see someone playing this combo!! A friend of mine actually played a very similar list. A couple of thuoghts:
Why the split between Blightsteel/Leviathan?? Leviathan, although resilient to Path to Exile, will need some time to end the game, and as you won't be able to choose which one you Shape Anew into, I don't think it's that good to run one maindeck. Also, with Path seeing less play than before nowadays, you could just put 2 Leviathans in the sideboard against Path decks, and get there with 2 Blightsteel main (I feel it's quite better to be able to close the game in one swing than the ocassional protection from path. Inkwell will almost always need 4 hits to end it if the opponent can block it once). Also, as the deck is monoblue, my friend ran Disrupting Shoal with very good results against removal, though I think he ran cantrips; your list doesn't have another 1 CMC other than Condescend (Dispel or Mizzium Skin could work too).
Thirst for knowledge could be quite good, even though this is not an artifact heavy deck. It does dig some cards, and sometimes you can even discard a Blightsteel to get some value and reshuffle him. It being an instant is great with that many counters.
I would try to fit some Cryptic Commands somewhere, that card is just so goddamn versatile...
I love the idea!! Never underestimate Inkmoth hehe, I've died to them more than once...
Regarding the split, there's no particular reason, it's more of "let's not put all of our eggs in one basket" play. Our opponents also can't read the deck as well in the set if the threat is potentially different. Imagine they side in Path To Exile or Oblivion Ring because they lost to Blightsteel, but in the second game, they have to deal with Inkwell. I don't think it makes sense to waste slots in the sideboard on creatures, but it's worth testing.
I think Disrupting Shoal is overrated, a trap, a card that sounds a lot better than it really is. Cryptic Command is amazing, but less strong here, because on turn 4 we want to tap out to cast Shape Anew.
Two things to point out guys. First, why are you running master's call with darksteel citadel in the deck? You will never be able to sac the myr without having the citadel already, unless you want to take the gamble you hit the land. Second, remember this deck is a lot like living end in that you have to be very careful of anything you suggest to put in. In living end you cannot put in cares with cmc 3 or less, in here you cannot put in more artifact cards as you risk not hitting your win condition, like the suggested silver myr. The deck does seem like a really cool idea so keep up the work!
Two things to point out guys. First, why are you running master's call with darksteel citadel in the deck? You will never be able to sac the myr without having the citadel already, unless you want to take the gamble you hit the land. Second, remember this deck is a lot like living end in that you have to be very careful of anything you suggest to put in. In living end you cannot put in cares with cmc 3 or less, in here you cannot put in more artifact cards as you risk not hitting your win condition, like the suggested silver myr. The deck does seem like a really cool idea so keep up the work!
Derp! This is an excellent point, I don't know why I keep forgetting that the deck can only have one artifact. I really don't think splashing another color really does much the more I think about it.
Cheating in a Wurmcoil Engine on turn 4 at the earliest isn't worth it, and doesn't make any sense. There are other decks that can cast 6 and 7 drops on turn 3 or 4 consistently. The entire point of cheating in a card is to win the game quickly and easily. This is especially true when you build an entire deck around a combo that cheats a card into play. Wurmcoil Engine doesn't do that at all. It's a 6/6 that's vulnerable to a crap ton of removal, it also doesn't fly or trample.
Inkwell goes to the graveyard was less frequently than Wurmcoil gets exiled or bounced, or Blightsteel gets exiled or bounced. That's the point I'm making. Liliana is a rough card we have to deal with, she makes us sacrifice Blightsteel also. Keep in mind, if you have mana open, like on turn 5, you can beat Liliana by activating Inkmoth Nexus and sacrificing one of those instead of our win condition.
I disagree with you about Emperion, it loses or is easily removed in most match ups and doesn't dominate enough match ups to deserve a spot in the 15. I still can see where you are coming from though.
Sphinx of the Steel Wind is good, but not good enough, it gets hit by Path To Exile, Supreme Verdict, Doom Blade, Vapor Snag, Oblivion Ring and Detention Sphere. It also doesn't win fast enough.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I have thought about making a Shape Anew deck before and I think its a really cool deck. However I do have some constructive criticism so please don't take this the wrong way if I in any way come across harsh. Firstly, is it really worth playing Darksteel Relic? Having relic in the deck means if relic is in your opening hand, then drawing 6 cards in your deck (Trinket Mages & Fabricates) are essentially drawing bricks. Secondly, if Darksteel Relic is ever countered, Thoughtseized, or in the worst case exiled with Shattering Blow, then you will have no other artifacts to tutor for (again 6 bricks).
Why not alleviate these concerns by playing more combo pieces:
1-4 Shape Anew
1-4 Polymorph
and if you are inclined to splash :symg:, 4 Sylvan Scrying.
Yes Darksteel Relic allows you to Shape Anew on turn 4, which is a whole turn faster than Shape Anewing an Inkmoth Nexus on turn 5, it is also less resilient.
I think Blinkmoth Nexus is interesting. I wouldn't want to run all 8, because I want to be able to get the blue mana, espeically for Disperse, but just in general, I don't want to have to mulligan a lot. As for Polymorph, that's a different deck, you might as well just Polymorph Eldrazi. However, what I like about Blombo is it's very very very consistent, and once Darksteel Relic resolves, our opponent starts sweating bullets.
I guess I'm not 100% opposed to splashing, but I do like the consistency running mono blue gives us, if I were to splash, it would have to fundamentally make the deck better.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I would personally rather run 1 darksteel citadel/1 darksteel relic and 4 tolaria west actually.
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
Wow, didn't think of Tolaria West. In fact, come to think of it, the transmute can't be countered if I am not mistaken. So it's essentially strictly better than Fabricate. At the same time, Peer Though Depths misses Tolaria West but finds Fabricate. Is that significant?
Regardless, I still think Tolaria West is worse than Trinket Mage because the chump blocking matters. But running 4 Trinket Mage and 2 Tolaria West makes of sense.
I think Darksteel Relic is better than Darksteel Citadel. I can't remember why, but I'm pretty sure I considered running Citadel over Relic but Relic made more sense. Maybe it was because there were some instances where I'd want to play the Relic right away. So if it were turn 3, and I played an Island, and then I played Trinket Mage if I were to fetch the Relic, I could play it, where with the Citadel, I would have to wait a turn. I can't see why that would matter too much though, because IOK, TS, and Duress all can't grand Darksteel Citadel. Is Darksteel Citadel strictly better than Darksteel Relic?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I think a package of
2 T. West
4 Trinket Mage
1 Citadel
Is pretty good and even.
Also as you said you can't lose your citadel to discard which can be important.
I would personally exchange fabricate for T. west and make room for some merchant scroll or serum visions. IMO the deck looks pretty good and is fast enough to compete. remand is pretty great since it'll timewalk and cantrip for you so you can beat early game which matters to this deck.
T. West has the added bonus of being able to fetch singleton copies of academy ruins and buried ruin to reset your combo if things go south.
SB dispel to protect your newly reanimated finisher/protect your combo is pretty important too. I think this deck is probably better positioned than the proteus staff/polymorph version simply because the artifact target is near impossible to kill.
I think this is what I'll be trying:
4 Shape Anew
1 Darksteel citadel
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Inkwell Leviathan
4 blade splicer
Permission
3 Spell snare
4 Remand
4 Path to exile
2 Cryptic command
3 Peer Through Depths
3 Serum Visions
3 Merchant Scroll
Search
4 Trinket Mage
2 Tolaria West
Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
3 Island
4 hallowed fountain
4 glacial fortress
2 mystic gate
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 academy ruins
I think splashing for bladesplicer gives you some better game against aggro in general. It also acts as a good way to get your polymorph online. Additionally, white lets you use a better alt wincon in colonnade and makes your SB ridiculously powerful.
I haven't tested yet but I'm on the fence between Path and more counterspells. I think we're going for something analogous to the package Twin would pack.
Also debating adding snapcaster vs. other spells.
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
Unfortunately, Citadel is too much of a risk to run, even as a one of: They only difference between it and Relic is that Citadel has an extra card type and can tap for one colorless. Sure, it's technically better than Relic, but we can't run both. There are things that don't change with this deck, and that is that the cards that tutor go off turn 3, and the combo goes off turn 4 at it's soonest (though depending on the situation it may be better to wait a turn or two until you know your opponent has exhausted all their answers). When we go off, Anew is not a Reshape: we can't just pick, it has to be revealed from the library, and therefore our Citadel could become a Relic, or vice versa. Sure, maybe we could still come back from that, but it gives our opponent at least 2 more free turns in a format that has consistent T4 wins and decks that can recover quick after the control deck runs out of steam.
I could see replacing Relic with Citadel, but something tells that if it got discarded, this format would force us to flat-out lose (I believe the card begins with 'Death', end with 'Shaman', and his 'rite' int he middle). Sure, things like Scooze, Leyline of the Void, and RiP do that anyway, but Deathrite is the most prominent. Not to mention a simple T2 Stony could put us in a certain situation where we can't tap Citadel for the mana we desperately need. Anything short of countering, exiling, or bouncing Relic doesn't stop us. Plus, land denial is a thing, and they could technically put us into a situation where we have to sac Citadel and keep us from getting two mana for Buried.
Serum is okay for other decks, but we NEED to slow them down early game. Our opponent cannot be allowed to do whatever it is they do. Being a sorcery forces us to cast this on our turn, with the potential of not having mana open for that Dissolve we needed to cast. Nearly all our digging spells are instant speed, allowing us to dig on their end step should they not do anything worth countering. Remand does seem good, but after all the tests I ran with it, it just never stopped the opponent in their tracks like a true hard-counter does. Most decks I faced actually did not care, shrugged it off and cast it next turn and went off...that being T3. Scroll is not needed, as we have enough dig and sifting, as well as deck setup to make sure we get what we need. As for your take on the deck, I feel like the Splicers are just gonna clog it up, as with the proper amount of digging we already have all the options we need for the combo.
So Honor, I see you still insist on Buried over Academy, but I feel I should point something out: what happens when Blightsteel gets Slaughter Games? Or he gets milled/discarded, and in response to the trigger Extirpate/Surgical Extraction? We then have to rely on the weaker wincon, Inkwell. What if he hits the yard as well? Sure, we can Buried him into our hand...but our we ever gonna cast him? Not likely, we'll lose before that. And if we do, he can simply be countered or wiped at this point in the game, as we've already been set back. So...now what? Beat them with Inkmoths and pray to win? Nah, I don't think that's our last resort...
Since your list already only runs one Buried, just swap it for one Academy, since this makes us not worry about it's legendary status. It also taps for one colorless, and while yes it needs one blue for the activation (which is hard in a mono-blue deck?), it's not good for only one use. Add to the fact that it doesn't go to our hand, and it's safe from certain removal. Then, we can setup whether we wanna draw it again or not, or maybe just put it back in. It's just much more versatile.
We REALLY need to work on sideboard for this, and for goodness sake change the name! Blombo is so ugly and fits any blue combo deck, we are superior as we run artifacts. Go ahead and name it after my idea, Anew Perspective. It's much more elegant and inviting. I mean, you posted the whole deck already, the least you can do is claim the better name.
"Nothing tears up a group of friends faster than a session of Mario Party." ~ ForsakenM~
Extra Info:
EDH, Modern, Anything with Planechase
Cockatrice Name: ForsakenM
Yes I do agree, running 8 colorless, non-basic, manlands as the only artifacts puts the deck extremely vulnerable to LD and Blood Moon. It will also make it pretty difficult to cast Cryptic Command reliably on turn 4. Like you mentioned, Polymorph (and Proteus Staff) do work better with Emrakul, the Aeons Torn which is covered in the PolyStaff Primer. However, I do like having both Shape Anew and Polymorph in the deck. A T3 Slaughter Games off Deathrite Shaman shuts the deck down.
Good catch by Jeffww on Tolaria West, does everthing much better than Sylvan Scrying. However, the splash does open up Beast Within and Nature's Claim (out of the board). Beast Within is a budget answer to Liliana of the Veil which is a problem for me since I am essentially creature-less, and is also a ghetto Polymorph target.
Our answers to Lili here are simply not letting her resolve, which seems like the best choice here. Blue is the primary control color, and everything this deck needs can be found without expanding into other colors and makes things unnecessarily complex.
As for DrS, he is a problem, but a T3 Games isn't always a guarantee. I'm pretty sure that would imply that we've already won the first game, as I'm sure Games isn't run in Jund's mainboard. Poly would be okay, but it forces us to run more manlands just to make it viable, which opens us up to other issues we didn't have before (chances of not hitting enough blue mana, Blood Moon, etc). If only Reweave wasn't so painfully expensive, and if only Thought Dissector wasn't so limited...
I'm not sure how often we would encounter a situation like this, but early-game hand disruption is VERY common. Maybe 2-3 Sanctity in the side?
"Nothing tears up a group of friends faster than a session of Mario Party." ~ ForsakenM~
Extra Info:
EDH, Modern, Anything with Planechase
Cockatrice Name: ForsakenM
Slaughter Games sucks for this deck and anyone who runs Slaughter Games is going to name Shape Anew before anything else. There's not much we can do about it. We can bounce Deathrite Shaman with Into The Roil, or we can just counter him. Hell, at least we can always fall back on Inkmoth Nexus.
We can cut Buried Ruin, because while there were very rare instances where we would need to recur Darksteel Relic (if it would get countered or discarded), these things can't happen to Darksteel Citadel. I think we should replace it with Tolaria West or Blinkmoth Nexus.
By the way, Tolaria West is great, but I'm not buying the idea that it's strictly better than Fabricate, I've played games that I have won because of Peer Through Depths into a Fabricate.
Tolaria West and Darksteel Citadel are game changers, once again, excellent suggestions. Here's what I'm thinking changes wise for the new version of the deck. Does it look better/more consistent?
Blombo Take 2
4 Shape Anew
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Inkwell Leviathan
4 Mana Leak
4 Condescend
2 Dissolve
4 See Beyond
4 Trinket Mage
2 Fabricate
4 Into The Roil
2 Spreading Seas
4 Inkmoth Nexus (Alternate Win Condition)
1 Tolaria West
1 Darksteel Citadel (Combo Piece)
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
So, here is a link to that, for anyone who's interested when they come across this: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=567252
More or less the same deck, with nearly everything mentioned here listed, plus it looks all fancy...which means people will look at it instead of this...which means this is useless...which means this is a dead thread.
I guess the mods can come lock this now, I really could care less what happens with this.
"Nothing tears up a group of friends faster than a session of Mario Party." ~ ForsakenM~
Extra Info:
EDH, Modern, Anything with Planechase
Cockatrice Name: ForsakenM
G1
Easy game.
Opening hand: Mystic gate, Academy ruins, Colonnade, Remand, cryptic, gitaxian probe, shape anew. Drew naturally into a trinket mage. Pod decays the mage to get in a few hits from an early voice. I have to play my shape anew at sorcery speed. Gives me a T4 colossus and win by T6.
Almost lost this game to a phyrexian metamorph. The opener remand saved me.
G2
Pod Sides in 3x thoughtseize 2x path to exile. Taking out 2x abrupt decay 1x orzhov pontif, 1x qasali pridemage.
Didn't see any of the SB tech. Shape anew flips a T4 inkwell. Won very closely using him. Got lucky and flipped the inkwell against a board with melira out and an active pod. Had to remand a phyrexian metamorph next turn. Used merchant scroll on T5 to fetch another remand. Remand a combo completing chord and win on T7.
The list I run. No SB yet.
1 Darksteel citadel
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Inkwell Leviathan
4 blade splicer
Permission
4 Remand
4 Path to exile
2 Cryptic command
2 vendilion clique
1 peek
2 gitaxian probe
4 Serum Visions
3 Merchant Scroll
Search
4 Trinket Mage
2 Tolaria West
Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
3 Island
4 hallowed fountain
4 seachrome coast
2 mystic gate
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 academy ruins
What's good about citadel and why I do not run relic:
You only need 3 lands to go off with this deck. Citadel will almost always be your fourth land. The deck curves so well it's obscene:
T1- Do nothing, Peek, visions, probe
T2- Hold for remand. use merchant scroll, peek/probe
T3- Tolarian academy, trinket mage, blade splicer
T4- Shape anew
T5-7- Beat face
Other pros of the deck include the fact it's almost immune to discard. You have so many ways to grab shape anew and your citadel is discard proof. Plus shape anew is instant speed. That alone makes it better than polymorph and almost as powerful as any other Tier 1 combo deck in the format.
I would probably put 1x inkwell and 1x colossus in the side though in case you go against a sweeper heavy or path to exile heavy deck. Snapcaster mage might be important to the deck as well. Don't know yet. I think repeal/gigadrowse and swan song have very deserved places in the SB. We could also go the route of a transformational SB and pack 2x colonnade, 4x snapcaster, 4x restoration angel, 4x mana leak and 1x sword of X and Y.
Also we can possibly take out blade splicer for master's call. Although I like the first strike capability. But if we used master's call I would put peer through depths back in and take out some of the subpar dig like peek/probe.
EOT peer into EOT call into EOT shape anew is pretty sexy. Of coures if you did this route you wouldn't want the transformational SB.
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
Reweave as mentioned by ForsakenM, is an expensive instant speed option. Its alright if you can splice it off Peer Through Depths.
Reweave is pretty bad, the instant speed is nice, but we can't afford to be comboing off at turn 6 at the latest.
Jeffww, I like your list, keep testing it and tweaking, if you don't mind, I'd like to eventually put your list as an alternate one in the primer. I must say, I can't test your list because it's way out of my budget, fetches, and V Clique, and an expensive land base.
You say Shape Anew is instead speed but it isn't, is there some interaction I'm missing? What are you talking about? I'm not sure how I feel about Cryptic Command, it's good, but it's at the same CMC as Shape Anew, and I feel we want to use our disruption and permission the most before turn 4.
Using Blade Splicer as alternate copies of Fabricate is very smart, but I don't know if like it because it's not as resilient. Can't they just Path to Exile your Golem token in response to you using Shape Anew? I understand the same could be said about using Inkmoth Nexus as an alternate Shape Anew target, but less things can target it because it is a land, and doesn't actually take up slots in the list because it's a land.
What's the Academy Ruins for? Is Merchant Scroll really better than Peer Through Depths? Master's Call is actually very interesting, and very hard for the opponent to disrupt because it summons two artifacts at instant speed. If I had to splash white, it would be for that card.
I'm not sure how I feel about the CMC 1 stuff, I feel Serum Visions is very overrated. Peek and Probe could be really good here though, especially if you want to run artifacts aside from the land.
Splashing white certainly brings interesting options to the table, although for now, I think I'll stick with mono blue. My LGS is hosting a little Thursday Night Magic thing, I'll be sure to play several games against a wide array of deck types and report back.
Lastly, an open question, how do people feel about Telling Time?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
1 Darksteel citadel
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Inkwell Leviathan
4 master's call
Permission
4 Remand
4 Path to exile
2 Cryptic command
2 vendilion clique
1 peek
2 gitaxian probe
3 telling time
4 peer through depths
Search
4 Trinket Mage
2 Tolaria West
Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
3 Island
4 hallowed fountain
4 seachrome coast
2 mystic gate
2 Celestial Colonnade
1 academy ruins
I personally like academy ruins because it can let you put inkwell back ontop of your library where you can cheat it if you had another shape anew. You can't do it with buried ruins. You could still probably get away with one of each though.
Telling time is really excellent for combo decks too. I think it deserves a slot. And yes it probably is better than serum visions anyways. Always hated it in scapeshift :\
Currently playing:
GCasual 8-post
R Casual Land Destruction
UBRWG Legacy Dredge
WGB Modern Melira Pod
RUG EDH
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
Why the split between Blightsteel/Leviathan?? Leviathan, although resilient to Path to Exile, will need some time to end the game, and as you won't be able to choose which one you Shape Anew into, I don't think it's that good to run one maindeck. Also, with Path seeing less play than before nowadays, you could just put 2 Leviathans in the sideboard against Path decks, and get there with 2 Blightsteel main (I feel it's quite better to be able to close the game in one swing than the ocassional protection from path. Inkwell will almost always need 4 hits to end it if the opponent can block it once). Also, as the deck is monoblue, my friend ran Disrupting Shoal with very good results against removal, though I think he ran cantrips; your list doesn't have another 1 CMC other than Condescend (Dispel or Mizzium Skin could work too).
Thirst for knowledge could be quite good, even though this is not an artifact heavy deck. It does dig some cards, and sometimes you can even discard a Blightsteel to get some value and reshuffle him. It being an instant is great with that many counters.
I would try to fit some Cryptic Commands somewhere, that card is just so goddamn versatile...
I love the idea!! Never underestimate Inkmoth hehe, I've died to them more than once...
You know, one advantage Tolaria West has over Fabricate that I didn't think of is that it is immune to targeted discard. I'm beginning to think more and more that it should entirely replace Fabricate. At the same time, I was goldfishing with some different lists, and the Peer Through Depths + Fabricate synergy is real.
The list looks good, Master's Call is a good reason to splash white, it really is. I love Celestial Colonnade as much as the next guy, but this is not the type of deck where we want to be in the position where we could have played a 4 drop on turn 4, but we couldn't because our top draw was a Celestial Colonnade instead of an Island. V Clique is another great card that normally works in any blue deck, but running more permission makes more sense. I really think Condescend is mandatory. Early game, it's like a better Remand in this deck.
I like Telling Time a lot, but right now, your deck doesn't have a way to shuffle your win conditions back in. That's why I feel See Beyond is so crucial. If you draw Blightsteel in your opening draw, and then later top draw Inkwell before you can combo, you are really going to be in bad shape.
I'm enjoying the theory crafting as well, lot of good ideas going around. I don't think a mana accelerator is entirely necessary, it's already pretty fast, but you could always try Silver Myr, it's much better than Deranged Assistant. Feel free to test it out and let us know how it goes.
Regarding the split, there's no particular reason, it's more of "let's not put all of our eggs in one basket" play. Our opponents also can't read the deck as well in the set if the threat is potentially different. Imagine they side in Path To Exile or Oblivion Ring because they lost to Blightsteel, but in the second game, they have to deal with Inkwell. I don't think it makes sense to waste slots in the sideboard on creatures, but it's worth testing.
I think Disrupting Shoal is overrated, a trap, a card that sounds a lot better than it really is. Cryptic Command is amazing, but less strong here, because on turn 4 we want to tap out to cast Shape Anew.
And yeah, Inkmoth Nexus is no joke.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
Derp! This is an excellent point, I don't know why I keep forgetting that the deck can only have one artifact. I really don't think splashing another color really does much the more I think about it.
I'm still satisfied with the following list, but I'm considering testing Augur of Bolas over Spreading Seas:
4 Shape Anew
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Inkwell Leviathan
4 Mana Leak
4 Condescend
2 Dissolve
4 See Beyond
4 Trinket Mage
2 Fabricate
4 Into The Roil
2 Spreading Seas
4 Inkmoth Nexus (Alternate Win Condition)
1 Tolaria West
1 Darksteel Citadel (Combo Piece)
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate