I agree that Twin is one of our worst matchups. I feel like I need a lot of luck in my matches against them. They need to not have a turn 4 win against us and I need to draw a lot of hate to win against them. That being said, we definitely have a chance to beat them. My local meta has a lot of people playing UWR Twin which is a little slower so we have an extra turn or two to assemble something, but they also have more removal which can be very annoying at times. I also thing our other two bad matchups are Tron and Burn. We have a hard time beating Tron and Twins best hands, but any misstep they make, we can easily capitalize on it. Burn is just miserable IMO. I still am trying to figure out a way to consistently beat them. There's really no Burn in my meta though so I don't get to test that matchup all too often.
Nice job with the wins against twin
About the Tron matchup, I've found that adding a singleton Magus of the Moon (mainboard) definitely helps. Even if they eventually find the pyroclasm or whatever to remove it, it often stalls the extra turn or two we'd need to combo out. Even one turn can be crucial vs. Tron.
Magus also can randomly (a lot more than you'd think) win games against Jund/Melira/etc. if they overcommit to nonbasics. And again, like with the Tron matchup, messing with you're opponent's mana for a turn or two often means a tempo swing that ends up being the deciding factor.
Burn: haven't played against it in a while, but if I remember correctly, Kitchen Finks is just a boss. Don't be afraid to finks/angel chain for a while until you have stable life and board presence.
Edit: Spellskite is also a big deal in the burn matchup. Never block with it, make all their lightning bolts worthless until they double burn it. Card disadvantage is very bad for a mono red deck.
About the Tron matchup, I've found that adding a singleton Magus of the Moon (mainboard) definitely helps. Even if they eventually find the pyroclasm or whatever to remove it, it often stalls the extra turn or two we'd need to combo out. Even one turn can be crucial vs. Tron.
Magus also can randomly (a lot more than you'd think) win games against Jund/Melira/etc. if they overcommit to nonbasics. And again, like with the Tron matchup, messing with you're opponent's mana for a turn or two often means a tempo swing that ends up being the deciding factor.
Burn: haven't played against it in a while, but if I remember correctly, Kitchen Finks is just a boss. Don't be afraid to finks/angel chain for a while until you have stable life and board presence.
Edit: Spellskite is also a big deal in the burn matchup. Never block with it, make all their lightning bolts worthless until they double burn it. Card disadvantage is very bad for a mono red deck.
Thanks!
Against Tron, right now my basic plan is get out a Avalanche Riders and either Phantasmal Image it or Resto it the following turn. The tough thing about Tron is that their best hands will wipe the board with early Pyroclasm or Oblivion Stone, or can Karn you on 3. We can essentially ignore Wurmcoil and focus on comboing them out, but beating them requires them not having the nuts usually. My issue with Magus of the Moon is that it can actually turn on their Pyroclasm for them. I think if I was going for another tutorable Tron hate card I'd either want a second Avalanche Riders or try out Fulminator Mage for a 3 drop slot. I am, however, curious about testing out that Pod deck with the 4 maindeck Magus of the Moon from Europe posted a few pages back.
I agree with Burn. Finks Resto is the way to go if possible. Skullcrack has made that a little ineffective at times though. And Spellskite doesn't help against Bump in the Night and Lava Spike. We do have the Tools to beat them, it's just difficult and I definitely have less experience against that deck than most other Tier 1 decks. In GP Detroit, I had Kiki and Obstinate Baloth out and lost cause he topdecked a Torpor Orb and I couldn't answer it in time.
I would like to ask few questions:
- Do you like 1 Skylasher in sideboard? Excellent against merfolk, the new mono U ninja deck, ok against UR aggro.
- Why not more Combust? Probably the best card against twin, good against pod, GW hatebear, UW tempo... I think 3 Combust in sb is right.
- Do you really need a 2 mana dork in domri versions? 1 Avacyn's pilgrim instead helps to do turn 2 Domri (or Pod). And pilgrim is better to fix mana/attack with Gavony.
- I like 1 Mirran Crusader in sideboard against Pod, GW, Junk...
- Maybe 1 Lone Missionary in sb too?
- 1 Phyrexian Revoker looks good against Tron, Shackles, pw, Melira Pod...
- I play Eternal Witness, one of the reason being I can kill in 2 turn with any 2 drop (pod 2 drop for witness, replay 2 drop, pod 2 drop for exarch, pod witness for resto angel, pod angel for Kiki). It is also useful after sb, to get Combust/PtE/Rider back.
- I don't see the problem with 1 Strangleroot Geist, it is like a small Kitchen Finks and it kills pw. I play 1 Geist 3 VoR.
1. I haven't really considered Skylasher. In my local meta there is almost no Merfolk, I haven't seen the Mono U Delver deck either, so Skylasher wouldn't do anything for me. It can be alright if those are big in your meta. At the GP scale, I don't expect those decks to make up a large portion of the meta as well so I would more than likely exclude Skylasher there. It also should be noted that if we have an Island out or we are Spreading Seas'd, Skylasher won't be able to block any creatures in Merfolk.
2. Combust is a card I've definitely considered using. The problem is that it's relatively narrow. It's not a tutorable piece of hate either so you need to be playing a reasonable amount of them if you want to draw them. Right now I don't think most sideboards have room for them. Path to Exile and Negate both have uses outside of the Twin matchup which is why I think they are used more often.
3. The mana dorks we play are all better than Avacyn's Pilgrim. All have the ability to make white mana and a 1/1 body isn't anything special. If you have extra slots to dedicate to more mana dorks, I know lists in the past have played 1-2 Pilgrim, but never as a replacement to Birds or Hierarch. It doesn't help cast Domri because it doesn't add R or G mana, it just helps ramp which is exactly what Birds and Hierarch do too.
4. I want to test Mirran Crusader against Jund and BGx decks to see if he has more impact than Sigarda. Right now I don't think too many people are playing him though so there's not a lot of available info on how he impacts those matches.
5. Lone Missionary occasionally sees play in sideboards. It's just another gain life creature so if you expect lots of Burn, it's reasonable to play. Other than that, it's not a very high impact card and will only see play in that one matchup.
6. Phyrexian Revoker is pretty easy to kill. There are a lot of things you'd want to name against Tron and they can kill it with Pyroclasm. If you name Karn they can O-Stone it. Name O-Stone, they Karn. Mono U is only seeing play online right now so unless it proves itself to be tier 1, I don't think Shackles is much of an issue. Melira Pod has multiple sac outlets it can win with, and I don't think that's a real tough matchup for us to begin with so I don't think we need extra hate for that. Most decks with Planeswalkers are midrange/control decks so they also have removal for Revoker, lessening his impact.
7. I believe Eternal Witness has been talked about before. I think it's just too slow of a card. Your suggest Pod chain with it feels a lot more like Melira Pod, slow and planned over multiple turns where Kiki Pod would rather just win. I don't think it's terrible. There's definitely value Restoing it and getting additional cards, but in that 3 slot, I'd rather have a solid beater as my flex slot.
8. The problem with Geist is that other than the Pod chain with him, there's not too much value you get from him. 2/1 haste isn't much compared to the value you get with Voice, or the beater you get with Goyf. Sure undying is good, but then he's just a 3/2 which is also easy to kill and get's eaten by DRS or Ooze making him pretty useless. That being said, I still want more testing done with him to see if Podding him into a win offsets his downsides.
The good thing about this deck is that the flex slots are very flexible. For the most part, drawing on over the other shouldn't have a huge impact unless it's in the specific situation you're playing the card for. Your knowledge of the deck and how to play against other decks is much more important than the specific card choices you make.
I just went 3-0-1 at my local FNM splitting in the finals. I have yet to be lower than 3rd place in any of my FNMs with Kiki Pod
Tonight I went
2-1 UWR Twin
2-1 UWR Twin
2-1 Affinity
ID GR Tron
Here's the list I was playing
...
Seems like a pretty straightforward list. However, as youre running KOTR, have you considered a tech-edge instead of one of the gavonys? just to make the lands a bit more tool-box. not sure if its a great trade, but just the thought.
I believe Eternal Witness has been talked about before. I think it's just too slow of a card. Your suggest Pod chain with it feels a lot more like Melira Pod, slow and planned over multiple turns where Kiki Pod would rather just win. I don't think it's terrible. There's definitely value Restoing it and getting additional cards, but in that 3 slot, I'd rather have a solid beater as my flex slot.
I'm going to stick up for Eternal Witness a bit. I think it gets a bad rap because it isn't a card that just makes you win, and it doesn't have any specific hate application.
The thing about Witness, is that it's useful in the long game, the game that nobody likes to talk about.
I'm referring to those games in which both you and the opponent are more or less out of cards, graveyards are full, and you have little battlefield presence. The opponent has managed to remove your creatures and/or pods, and you in turn have exhausted their hand and board through combat and combo attempts.
Eternal Witness is key in these scenarios because it lets you get back in the game. It can resurrect a destroyed birthing pod, or like a mini birthing pod, resurrect a creature (or creatureS in the case of restoration angel) of your chocie. It's pure card advantage that you can sculpt to the current game state, which really helps out in the non-christmas land scenario.
It can also give you a second chance at combo if both of your Kikis die, which can come up now and then.
I'm not saying that Witness should be in every pod list, but I just think it shouldn't be discounted because it's less "broken" as our other cards.
Seems like a pretty straightforward list. However, as youre running KOTR, have you considered a tech-edge instead of one of the gavonys? just to make the lands a bit more tool-box. not sure if its a great trade, but just the thought.
If I was to have another tool box land, I'd want Horizon Canopy. I'm not a huge fan of Tectonic Edge as a singleton because I don't think it will have a huge impact.
I'm going to stick up for Eternal Witness a bit. I think it gets a bad rap because it isn't a card that just makes you win, and it doesn't have any specific hate application.
The thing about Witness, is that it's useful in the long game, the game that nobody likes to talk about.
I'm referring to those games in which both you and the opponent are more or less out of cards, graveyards are full, and you have little battlefield presence. The opponent has managed to remove your creatures and/or pods, and you in turn have exhausted their hand and board through combat and combo attempts.
Eternal Witness is key in these scenarios because it lets you get back in the game. It can resurrect a destroyed birthing pod, or like a mini birthing pod, resurrect a creature (or creatureS in the case of restoration angel) of your chocie. It's pure card advantage that you can sculpt to the current game state, which really helps out in the non-christmas land scenario.
It can also give you a second chance at combo if both of your Kikis die, which can come up now and then.
I'm not saying that Witness should be in every pod list, but I just think it shouldn't be discounted because it's less "broken" as our other cards.
I'm not saying Witness is bad, but I just personally don't play it in my list. I think that in longer games it's great, but those grindy matches are ones that you're more likely to see GY hate as well. I also try to limit the amount of creatures that are affected by Torpor Orb, since that is brought in quite often against us. Her effect is powerful though and can throw people off if unexpected.
what does everyone think about coiling oracle? it's either ramp or a domri+1 for GU, which fits the theme of the deck. is GU too hard on T2 (assuming no dork)? i almost would rather play oracle over pridemage every time, and swapping G2 as needed. going to try it.
Today i played against the living end of a friend in my lgs and i lost 4-0 , and it wasnt even close.
¿What is the plan against living end?
It also works to tap down one of their lands in their upkeep turn 3 with Deceiver Exarch, then you have another turn usually to do what you want. (only spell they can use that turn would be Shriekmaw or Dismember, which is usually only in side.)
How is the deck, especially the domri version doing in the current meta? I have the feeling that it fell it bit out of favour. In my testing Ive got too often bad hands consisting those 1 offs you never wann draw... Sometimes i feel to be too relying on the mana dorks due to the bad manabase... Im playing the standard list with 2 domris and 1 wall of roots
Opinions?
I've been having some success with a pretty standard list. Domri is good at times, others he doesn't do much, but you can always board him out when you need to. My local meta consists of a lot of Twin and Tron which I feel are two of our tougher matchups and I consistently do well against them. I feel Jund is about 50/50, it all depends on how much removal they draw into. Affinity is ususally a race game 1, and games 2 and 3 are about managing their creatures while you assemble your combo. So I feel that this deck is still well positioned.
After GP Detroit, I felt the exact same way about the mana dorks. Lots of the games I lost there were because I was leaning too heavily on mana dorks to carry my mana base. As of recently, I tend to keep slower hands. It is alright to keep a hand that does nothing until turn 3 as long as you have solid mana and can form some sort of plan once you establish your creatures. We have so many 1 and 2 drops, you have a high percentage chance to draw some sort of business in the first few turns that a questionable hand can turn into a great hand.
It has, but just for budgetary reasons. Ideally you'd run 3-4, but people are inclined towards alternatives due to cost.
Chord is a clunky card and it's pretty horrible against Jund and UWR where we don't really have any silver bullets. In other matchups, chord can still do wonderful things.
It has, but just for budgetary reasons. Ideally you'd run 3-4, but people are inclined towards alternatives due to cost.
How can you even say that? It's fallen out favor for pure lack of cohesivnes. It's super clunky in Kiki pod and is just not worth it at all. I'm not sure if I have ever heard of a card not being played in a competive form for budget reasons... Any way domri is just infinitely better.
I don't think we can just claim that Domri is the be all and end all card for Kiki-Pod. I side him out against Combo and Affinity because he generally performs terribly. But in a meta with UWR and Jund dominating, I think he's the clear choice.
I don't think we can just claim that Domri is the be all and end all card for Kiki-Pod. I side him out against Combo and Affinity because he generally performs terribly. But in a meta with UWR and Jund dominating, I think he's the clear choice.
I am pretty certain you would side out Chord against those matchups as well.
I don't think we can just claim that Domri is the be all and end all card for Kiki-Pod. I side him out against Combo and Affinity because he generally performs terribly. But in a meta with UWR and Jund dominating, I think he's the clear choice.
I am pretty certain you would side out Chord against those matchups as well.
I may side out Chord against Affinity, but I would never, ever board out Chord against combo. Finding hate bears against combo is your best hope, and Chord does that handily.
I may side out Chord against Affinity, but I would never, ever board out Chord against combo. Finding hate bears against combo is your best hope, and Chord does that handily.
I am not sure against what combo deck Chord is going to be fast enough against.
I am not sure against what combo deck Chord is going to be fast enough against.
If you go t1 dork, t2 Wall of roots/dork, t3 you can cord for a 2/3cmc creature.
Against twin, you can get an Exarch/ Spellskite/ Staticaster / FiendHunter as required
Against storm you can get Ethersworn Canonist/ Thalia/ Staticaster
Against Pod, a scavenging ooze/ Aven Mindcensor
I personally run Domri, I love it heaps more. But I played Chord for a while. I can definetly see it's merit. I often sided some chords out, leaving 1 or 2 just in case. But my LGS was swarming with UWR for a while.
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Nice job with the wins against twin
About the Tron matchup, I've found that adding a singleton Magus of the Moon (mainboard) definitely helps. Even if they eventually find the pyroclasm or whatever to remove it, it often stalls the extra turn or two we'd need to combo out. Even one turn can be crucial vs. Tron.
Magus also can randomly (a lot more than you'd think) win games against Jund/Melira/etc. if they overcommit to nonbasics. And again, like with the Tron matchup, messing with you're opponent's mana for a turn or two often means a tempo swing that ends up being the deciding factor.
Burn: haven't played against it in a while, but if I remember correctly, Kitchen Finks is just a boss. Don't be afraid to finks/angel chain for a while until you have stable life and board presence.
Edit: Spellskite is also a big deal in the burn matchup. Never block with it, make all their lightning bolts worthless until they double burn it. Card disadvantage is very bad for a mono red deck.
Thanks!
Against Tron, right now my basic plan is get out a Avalanche Riders and either Phantasmal Image it or Resto it the following turn. The tough thing about Tron is that their best hands will wipe the board with early Pyroclasm or Oblivion Stone, or can Karn you on 3. We can essentially ignore Wurmcoil and focus on comboing them out, but beating them requires them not having the nuts usually. My issue with Magus of the Moon is that it can actually turn on their Pyroclasm for them. I think if I was going for another tutorable Tron hate card I'd either want a second Avalanche Riders or try out Fulminator Mage for a 3 drop slot. I am, however, curious about testing out that Pod deck with the 4 maindeck Magus of the Moon from Europe posted a few pages back.
I agree with Burn. Finks Resto is the way to go if possible. Skullcrack has made that a little ineffective at times though. And Spellskite doesn't help against Bump in the Night and Lava Spike. We do have the Tools to beat them, it's just difficult and I definitely have less experience against that deck than most other Tier 1 decks. In GP Detroit, I had Kiki and Obstinate Baloth out and lost cause he topdecked a Torpor Orb and I couldn't answer it in time.
1. I haven't really considered Skylasher. In my local meta there is almost no Merfolk, I haven't seen the Mono U Delver deck either, so Skylasher wouldn't do anything for me. It can be alright if those are big in your meta. At the GP scale, I don't expect those decks to make up a large portion of the meta as well so I would more than likely exclude Skylasher there. It also should be noted that if we have an Island out or we are Spreading Seas'd, Skylasher won't be able to block any creatures in Merfolk.
2. Combust is a card I've definitely considered using. The problem is that it's relatively narrow. It's not a tutorable piece of hate either so you need to be playing a reasonable amount of them if you want to draw them. Right now I don't think most sideboards have room for them. Path to Exile and Negate both have uses outside of the Twin matchup which is why I think they are used more often.
3. The mana dorks we play are all better than Avacyn's Pilgrim. All have the ability to make white mana and a 1/1 body isn't anything special. If you have extra slots to dedicate to more mana dorks, I know lists in the past have played 1-2 Pilgrim, but never as a replacement to Birds or Hierarch. It doesn't help cast Domri because it doesn't add R or G mana, it just helps ramp which is exactly what Birds and Hierarch do too.
4. I want to test Mirran Crusader against Jund and BGx decks to see if he has more impact than Sigarda. Right now I don't think too many people are playing him though so there's not a lot of available info on how he impacts those matches.
5. Lone Missionary occasionally sees play in sideboards. It's just another gain life creature so if you expect lots of Burn, it's reasonable to play. Other than that, it's not a very high impact card and will only see play in that one matchup.
6. Phyrexian Revoker is pretty easy to kill. There are a lot of things you'd want to name against Tron and they can kill it with Pyroclasm. If you name Karn they can O-Stone it. Name O-Stone, they Karn. Mono U is only seeing play online right now so unless it proves itself to be tier 1, I don't think Shackles is much of an issue. Melira Pod has multiple sac outlets it can win with, and I don't think that's a real tough matchup for us to begin with so I don't think we need extra hate for that. Most decks with Planeswalkers are midrange/control decks so they also have removal for Revoker, lessening his impact.
7. I believe Eternal Witness has been talked about before. I think it's just too slow of a card. Your suggest Pod chain with it feels a lot more like Melira Pod, slow and planned over multiple turns where Kiki Pod would rather just win. I don't think it's terrible. There's definitely value Restoing it and getting additional cards, but in that 3 slot, I'd rather have a solid beater as my flex slot.
8. The problem with Geist is that other than the Pod chain with him, there's not too much value you get from him. 2/1 haste isn't much compared to the value you get with Voice, or the beater you get with Goyf. Sure undying is good, but then he's just a 3/2 which is also easy to kill and get's eaten by DRS or Ooze making him pretty useless. That being said, I still want more testing done with him to see if Podding him into a win offsets his downsides.
The good thing about this deck is that the flex slots are very flexible. For the most part, drawing on over the other shouldn't have a huge impact unless it's in the specific situation you're playing the card for. Your knowledge of the deck and how to play against other decks is much more important than the specific card choices you make.
Seems like a pretty straightforward list. However, as youre running KOTR, have you considered a tech-edge instead of one of the gavonys? just to make the lands a bit more tool-box. not sure if its a great trade, but just the thought.
I'm going to stick up for Eternal Witness a bit. I think it gets a bad rap because it isn't a card that just makes you win, and it doesn't have any specific hate application.
The thing about Witness, is that it's useful in the long game, the game that nobody likes to talk about.
I'm referring to those games in which both you and the opponent are more or less out of cards, graveyards are full, and you have little battlefield presence. The opponent has managed to remove your creatures and/or pods, and you in turn have exhausted their hand and board through combat and combo attempts.
Eternal Witness is key in these scenarios because it lets you get back in the game. It can resurrect a destroyed birthing pod, or like a mini birthing pod, resurrect a creature (or creatureS in the case of restoration angel) of your chocie. It's pure card advantage that you can sculpt to the current game state, which really helps out in the non-christmas land scenario.
It can also give you a second chance at combo if both of your Kikis die, which can come up now and then.
I'm not saying that Witness should be in every pod list, but I just think it shouldn't be discounted because it's less "broken" as our other cards.
If I was to have another tool box land, I'd want Horizon Canopy. I'm not a huge fan of Tectonic Edge as a singleton because I don't think it will have a huge impact.
I'm not saying Witness is bad, but I just personally don't play it in my list. I think that in longer games it's great, but those grindy matches are ones that you're more likely to see GY hate as well. I also try to limit the amount of creatures that are affected by Torpor Orb, since that is brought in quite often against us. Her effect is powerful though and can throw people off if unexpected.
seems right. i have ethersworn, sigarda, and chalice sideboarded for just that. considering throwing in a meddling mage.
Ethersworn Canonist is very bad for them. Also, if it's really prevalent in your area, you can run graveyard hate-bears.
It also works to tap down one of their lands in their upkeep turn 3 with Deceiver Exarch, then you have another turn usually to do what you want. (only spell they can use that turn would be Shriekmaw or Dismember, which is usually only in side.)
I've been having some success with a pretty standard list. Domri is good at times, others he doesn't do much, but you can always board him out when you need to. My local meta consists of a lot of Twin and Tron which I feel are two of our tougher matchups and I consistently do well against them. I feel Jund is about 50/50, it all depends on how much removal they draw into. Affinity is ususally a race game 1, and games 2 and 3 are about managing their creatures while you assemble your combo. So I feel that this deck is still well positioned.
After GP Detroit, I felt the exact same way about the mana dorks. Lots of the games I lost there were because I was leaning too heavily on mana dorks to carry my mana base. As of recently, I tend to keep slower hands. It is alright to keep a hand that does nothing until turn 3 as long as you have solid mana and can form some sort of plan once you establish your creatures. We have so many 1 and 2 drops, you have a high percentage chance to draw some sort of business in the first few turns that a questionable hand can turn into a great hand.
It has, but just for budgetary reasons. Ideally you'd run 3-4, but people are inclined towards alternatives due to cost.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
The Best Deck Boxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEwgLph_Pjk
The Best Binders: http://youtu.be/H5IauASYWjk
Chord is a clunky card and it's pretty horrible against Jund and UWR where we don't really have any silver bullets. In other matchups, chord can still do wonderful things.
It's definitely got nothing to do with its cost.
How can you even say that? It's fallen out favor for pure lack of cohesivnes. It's super clunky in Kiki pod and is just not worth it at all. I'm not sure if I have ever heard of a card not being played in a competive form for budget reasons... Any way domri is just infinitely better.
I don't think we can just claim that Domri is the be all and end all card for Kiki-Pod. I side him out against Combo and Affinity because he generally performs terribly. But in a meta with UWR and Jund dominating, I think he's the clear choice.
I am pretty certain you would side out Chord against those matchups as well.
I may side out Chord against Affinity, but I would never, ever board out Chord against combo. Finding hate bears against combo is your best hope, and Chord does that handily.
I am not sure against what combo deck Chord is going to be fast enough against.
If you go t1 dork, t2 Wall of roots/dork, t3 you can cord for a 2/3cmc creature.
Against twin, you can get an Exarch/ Spellskite/ Staticaster / FiendHunter as required
Against storm you can get Ethersworn Canonist/ Thalia/ Staticaster
Against Pod, a scavenging ooze/ Aven Mindcensor
I personally run Domri, I love it heaps more. But I played Chord for a while. I can definetly see it's merit. I often sided some chords out, leaving 1 or 2 just in case. But my LGS was swarming with UWR for a while.