So Im definately going to be trying out Burnished Hart.
Im afraid it might be too slow, but 6 mana split between isnt too bad for a deck that wants to ramp so badly.
Id definitely better than Druidic Satchel, and I ran that for a long time.
Burnished Hart
3
Artifact Creature — Elk Uncommon
3, Sacrifice Burnished Hart: Search your library for up to two basic land cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
#213/249 2/2
Whip is cute. Im always wary of things that do what out general already does except worse. It depends how many 'backups' to chainer you prefer to run. I only run Strands of Night at the moment.
The card looks amazing for XHD as your commander tho.
Read The Bones looks playable. 2B Scry 2 draw 2. not bad
WHAT IM DROOLING ABOUT
Erebos, God of the Dead
3b
Legendary Enchantment Creature — God Mythic Rare
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to black is less than five, Erebos isn't a creature. (Each {B} in the mana costs of permanents you control counts towards your devotion to black.)
Your opponents can't gain life.
1{B}, Pay 2 life: Draw a card.
Illus. Peter Mohrbacher #85/249 5/7
...we can chainer it into play. if we dont have devotion, its not a nightmare... so it wont get exiled... which can be handy if you dont have the devotion and someone boardwipes.
Erebos, God of the Dead
3b
Legendary Enchantment Creature — God Mythic Rare
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to black is less than five, Erebos isn't a creature. (Each {B} in the mana costs of permanents you control counts towards your devotion to black.)
Your opponents can't gain life.
1{B}, Pay 2 life: Draw a card.
Illus. Peter Mohrbacher #85/249 5/7
...we can chainer it into play. if we dont have devotion, its not a nightmare... so it wont get exiled... which can be handy if you dont have the devotion and someone boardwipes.
The gray guy looks interesting.
Why is this better than Greed? Aside from Indestructible (which is pretty awesome), I don't want a creature enchantment since there's plenty of creature exile to be had in every meta I've played in.
Erebos being a nightmare isn't dependent on him being a creature, so Chainer will make him a nightmare even if he's just an enchantment and will still exile him.
Regardless, he does look awesome.
While the effect is still there, if Erebos is not a creature (or tribal), he cannot have creature types.
If he is not a creature, he is not a nightmare.
If he ever becomes a creature, the effect will apply, and he will be a nightmare.
I'm gonna test out Hero's Downfall. The only downside is that it always costs 3 mana, while cards like Dismemeber and Snuff Out can be cast for cheap or free.
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"Psychologically, you have to have confidence in yourself and this confidence should be based on fact." -- Bobby Fischer
I just added read the bones and Gray merchant of asphodel into my chainer build, and will likely add in Erebos as well. The grey merchant is a great addition and helps swing as much life as Kokusho if not more. He is an insane play if if you have Necropotence or Dark Prophecy in play before hand. It can easily hit when you have devotion of 6 or more.
I may test Whip of Erebos in place of Strands of Night. While the strands doesn't exile its target and is more permanent, the Lifelink from the whip is certainly welcome, along with the haste it grants to help deal damage faster. It's really a toss-up though, since the exile clause on the Whip really does hurt.
The Grey Merchant is insane, in most late-game cases he can kill faster than Kokusho. Burnished Hart has proven to be really good in testing too. I gave Abhorrent Overlord a spin in my build and absolutely love him.
If you guys are looking for a land-grabbing artifact, instead of Druidic Satchel give Journeyer's Kite a try. In practice it's proven pretty fantastic for me.
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EDH: It's like a pillow fight, except occasionally someone pulls out a chainsaw.
If you suggest a card to add to a deck, suggest one to take out as well.
I'm gonna test out Hero's Downfall. The only downside is that it always costs 3 mana, while cards like Dismemeber and Snuff Out can be cast for cheap or free.
I was running murder before, just to have a 1 of single target unconditional removal spell for when things get dire. Hero's Downfall is a huge upgrade, because dealing with planeswalkers is a huge pain in mono black. My previous go to was something like tutor for Karn.
Has anyone tried Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx? It seems like a worse Cabal Coffers, but I wonder if it is still good enough to play anyway. You need BBBB on the field to produce an extra mana, and everything after that is gravy. My main concern that this land might make Coffers weaker, unless a non-Swamp is removed.
Has anyone tried Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx? It seems like a worse Cabal Coffers, but I wonder if it is still good enough to play anyway. You need BBBB on the field to produce an extra mana, and everything after that is gravy. My main concern that this land might make Coffers weaker, unless a non-Swamp is removed.
I just play both it and coffers. Once the game develops I've usually got it making around 7ish mana every turn. I wouldn't keep a hand with both it and coffers in it. Once your board state gets settled, one extra swamp isn't going to make much of a difference for coffers.
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EDH: It's like a pillow fight, except occasionally someone pulls out a chainsaw.
If you suggest a card to add to a deck, suggest one to take out as well.
I'm probably not going to play it. Its an awesome card, I just don't like that it does nothing after a board wipe.
I would rather just run deserted temple, thespian stage, and vesuva as extra coffers
Maybe if we ran more trip black permanents, and less artifacts it would be more appealling.
I prefer dismember and sickening shoal for my removal spells and I pack withering boon for etb creatures.
Late game hardcasting shoal isn't a big deal, and early game killing kaalia and other high threat generals asap while still being able to cast your spells is important.
that and I like having cheap responses in case I tap out while trying to win and get stopped.
by cheap I mean less than three.
B/c if we have three mana chances are we would probably have a better response of reanimating something with chained.
So from Theros we got Erebos, God of the Dead
Consistent card draw that can be recurred from our commander. Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Even better wincon than Koko puffs. This guy is nuts. Hero's Downfall
Not a bad removal spell if youre meta is planeswalker heavy, not necessary though. Read the Bones
Quality draw 2 lose 2 that we love with scrying. Burnished Hart
Its good ramp if you want to try and keep up with the green players. Probably easier to just run a tutor to find a mana doubler tbh.
Commander 2013 Review
Surveyor's Scope
I guess this one depends on the amount of green in your meta. Ive always really hated cards that depend so much on your opponents. Its worth testing though, and will probably be great late game after you get a terastodon trigger or two pointed at you.
[card]Baleful Force[card]
Probably too expensive for what we want to do when we have so many other options for draw 1 every turn. If you play a heavy discard/mill to reanimate strat hes not bad.
I'd run Bloodgift Demon over him though.
Curse of Shallow Graves
Maybe if you want more dies triggers to feed your Sangromancer? But then Tombstone Stairwell would probably be better. Maybe if you want to play political game... A lot of maybes with this card, probably not worth running.
Fell Shepherd
This guy has some kind of awesome combo potential lined up for himself, I doubt we'll see it in chainer though.
Hooded Horror
More of an aggro creature, good as a secondary voltron guy. Not our cup of tea.
Ophiomancer
Basically they fixed bitterblossom. This guy will be amazing in stax builds or just skullclamp happy decks. If you play stax chainer this guy might replace Pawn of Ulamog or just be your second copy. (also cute with Conspiracy and Reaper King, but i digress)
Price of Knowledge
This costs too much for me. But in a stax deck I can see its potential if you can lock down the game it could be a quick way to end the game.
Tempt with Immortality
black Primordial is probably better here. Or just chainer really.
Toxic Deluge
Im extremely excited about this card. A cheap wrath to fend off fast aggro is just what I was hoping for. Theres a lot of generals that hit the board too fast that we need to be able to take care of quick. Late game with enough life we can kill any creature.
I like it better than damnnation.
Then again, I dont mind paying life as long as it isnt the last one.
So from Theros we got Erebos, God of the Dead
Consistent card draw that can be recurred from our commander. Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Even better wincon than Koko puffs. This guy is nuts. Hero's Downfall
Not a bad removal spell if youre meta is planeswalker heavy, not necessary though. Read the Bones
Quality draw 2 lose 2 that we love with scrying. Burnished Hart
Its good ramp if you want to try and keep up with the green players. Probably easier to just run a tutor to find a mana doubler tbh.
Commander 2013 Review
Surveyor's Scope
I guess this one depends on the amount of green in your meta. Ive always really hated cards that depend so much on your opponents. Its worth testing though, and will probably be great late game after you get a terastodon trigger or two pointed at you.
[card]Baleful Force[card]
Probably too expensive for what we want to do when we have so many other options for draw 1 every turn. If you play a heavy discard/mill to reanimate strat hes not bad.
I'd run Bloodgift Demon over him though.
Curse of Shallow Graves
Maybe if you want more dies triggers to feed your Sangromancer? But then Tombstone Stairwell would probably be better. Maybe if you want to play political game... A lot of maybes with this card, probably not worth running.
Fell Shepherd
This guy has some kind of awesome combo potential lined up for himself, I doubt we'll see it in chainer though.
Hooded Horror
More of an aggro creature, good as a secondary voltron guy. Not our cup of tea.
Ophiomancer
Basically they fixed bitterblossom. This guy will be amazing in stax builds or just skullclamp happy decks. If you play stax chainer this guy might replace Pawn of Ulamog or just be your second copy. (also cute with Conspiracy and Reaper King, but i digress)
Price of Knowledge
This costs too much for me. But in a stax deck I can see its potential if you can lock down the game it could be a quick way to end the game.
Tempt with Immortality
black Primordial is probably better here. Or just chainer really.
Toxic Deluge
Im extremely excited about this card. A cheap wrath to fend off fast aggro is just what I was hoping for. Theres a lot of generals that hit the board too fast that we need to be able to take care of quick. Late game with enough life we can kill any creature.
I like it better than damnnation.
Then again, I dont mind paying life as long as it isnt the last one.
All of the Commander 2013 cards seem pretty borderline to me. Toxic Deluge has the disadvantage of costing life, of which Chainer needs plenty. If your deck has more than the usual amount of life gain then I could see running it, otherwise it seems too painful. The four mana wraths like Mutilate and Barter in Blood are probably just better. I might be underestimating this card, since it is cheap and efficient at what it does. I think it is worth playing in an aggro meta, but probably not worth it otherwise.
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"Psychologically, you have to have confidence in yourself and this confidence should be based on fact." -- Bobby Fischer
So from Theros we got Erebos, God of the Dead
Consistent card draw that can be recurred from our commander. Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Even better wincon than Koko puffs. This guy is nuts. Hero's Downfall
Not a bad removal spell if youre meta is planeswalker heavy, not necessary though. Read the Bones
Quality draw 2 lose 2 that we love with scrying. Burnished Hart
Its good ramp if you want to try and keep up with the green players. Probably easier to just run a tutor to find a mana doubler tbh.
Commander 2013 Review
Surveyor's Scope
I guess this one depends on the amount of green in your meta. Ive always really hated cards that depend so much on your opponents. Its worth testing though, and will probably be great late game after you get a terastodon trigger or two pointed at you.
[card]Baleful Force[card]
Probably too expensive for what we want to do when we have so many other options for draw 1 every turn. If you play a heavy discard/mill to reanimate strat hes not bad.
I'd run Bloodgift Demon over him though.
Curse of Shallow Graves
Maybe if you want more dies triggers to feed your Sangromancer? But then Tombstone Stairwell would probably be better. Maybe if you want to play political game... A lot of maybes with this card, probably not worth running.
Fell Shepherd
This guy has some kind of awesome combo potential lined up for himself, I doubt we'll see it in chainer though.
Hooded Horror
More of an aggro creature, good as a secondary voltron guy. Not our cup of tea.
Ophiomancer
Basically they fixed bitterblossom. This guy will be amazing in stax builds or just skullclamp happy decks. If you play stax chainer this guy might replace Pawn of Ulamog or just be your second copy. (also cute with Conspiracy and Reaper King, but i digress)
Price of Knowledge
This costs too much for me. But in a stax deck I can see its potential if you can lock down the game it could be a quick way to end the game.
Tempt with Immortality
black Primordial is probably better here. Or just chainer really.
Toxic Deluge
Im extremely excited about this card. A cheap wrath to fend off fast aggro is just what I was hoping for. Theres a lot of generals that hit the board too fast that we need to be able to take care of quick. Late game with enough life we can kill any creature.
I like it better than damnnation.
Then again, I dont mind paying life as long as it isnt the last one.
I haven't had a chance to play my Chainer deck in a <coon's age>, but I have kept an eye out for good pick ups in the recent sets.
Erebos seems really intriguing, but I wonder if he is better than Greed (which I am testing, albeit very slowly :P). He has a lot of things going for him over Greed, indestructibility, opponents can't gain life, a decent body (all of which are offered at the same cmc)... but that extra per activation literally doubles the mana investment. Also, being a creature exposes him to tuck spells and rfg spells, but it makes him playable through the dreaded Gaddock Teeg. Erebos seems worth testing, imo, but I can't imagine running both him AND Greed, and since I have am not done testing whether the :symb:, pay 2 life: draw a card effect is worthwhile yet, I am in no rush to acquire an Erebos at the moment.
Grey Merchant seems like a like a possibility, I hope I don't end up being disappointed. I am already a bit disillusioned with Kokusho at the moment, although I really like the ETB rather than LTB timing on the Merchant. Then again, I don't go for giant recursive loops, so he probably does diddly in my build.
Burnished Hart I really, REALLY want to like, but eating up two turns to move us forward two turns seems... stagnant? It's neither fast ramp, nor overwhelmingly powerful ramp, so the idea of pissing away two full turns of prime development for this guy seems a bit unsettling. But I really love the idea of being +2 Swamps. He *does* seem better than all the +1 mana rocks, though, so if you are running those, maybe look into your Hart for the answer (side-splittingly funny, I know).
Toxic Deluge is the best thing I have ever seen ever for this or any other deck that taps for :symb:. Kills Edric decks, kills indestructible, casts through Teeg, comes down faster than all other sweepers... this here is the bee's knees. You start with 40 life. Invest a couple to kill the guys that would cost you even more life down the road. This card is bananas in pajamas. The best card I've ever seen for this deck outside of Chainer, and maybe even better than Chainer himself. Sweet baby Jesus in barbecue sauce, I want as many of these as I can get my hands on. (plus they will be legal in Legacy, I believe, so get them before their value skyrockets)
Edit: Forgot to address Read the Bones. I am excited but doubtful about this card. I like my card draw at two mana, so it'll be interesting to see if the extra takes it from staple to unplayable. This is DEFINITELY worth testing, though. Can't get enough of the draw two, lose two effects. Plus the fact that the scry comes before the draws? Exquisite.
Warning for inappropriate language. - cryogen
No offense meant by my terminology, but for what it's worth "[the term] actually refers to raccoons. The expression "in a coon's age" dates to the early 1800s, and to the folk belief that raccoons are long-lived."
Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Wow guys, wow. Okay, three player game, I have Dimir House Guard and GMoA in the yard, Chainer and Necrotic Ooze in play with plenty of mana available. Devoton equal to 10... Chainer brings in Gray, Ooze sacs Gray, Chainer brings in Gray, rinse, repeat for 10 points of life drain per cycle. 30 points finished the game. Good, real good.
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That wasnt jmdt, that was MrCoupon.
JMDT is probably just busy with life. Worst comes to worst ill create a new chainer primer if we need an updated opening post.
Grey merchant is even better than KoKo- and thats in my artifact heavy version.
Him alone will offset the lifeloss of Toxic Deluge. I dont think the paying of life really matters. Really the reason I think its so good is that you can cast it turn 3, or we can tutor for it and cast turn 4 thru 6- where its a lot harder to do that w/ damnnation. Ive lost a lot of games because of that. Moreover, the amount of indestructible and shroud creatures is on the rise. Having one more answer to all that stuff is huge.
We shouldnt be afraid of losing too much life. Grey Merchant, koko, blood artist, Falkenwrath Noble, Sangromancer, and exsanguate all gain us a lot of life. I dont think people believe me when I say how good Sangromancer and Memory Jar are together. Its ridiculously good in multiplayer. Moreover its the closest thing to MILL that this deck should play IMO.
I really want Hart to be good, but I dont think we need it. Id run it in a budget version.
Ive still yet to get to test out erbos... In theory he should be amaze-balls... Its not hard for this deck to go into beatdown mode, and hes a good creature to do it. Nirk Rev and Kagemaru are my favorite beatsticks for when the 'times' come to that.
I was able to extensively playtest Erebos, God of the Dead and my god. He is such a beast when he hits the board. Even if you dont have your devotion count up, he is still a good draw engine. I replaced Greed with Erebos and everything is going just fine. It also helps that he is a creature so we can get him back with chainer.
That wasnt jmdt, that was MrCoupon.
JMDT is probably just busy with life. Worst comes to worst ill create a new chainer primer if we need an updated opening post.
Grey merchant is even better than KoKo- and thats in my artifact heavy version.
Him alone will offset the lifeloss of Toxic Deluge. I dont think the paying of life really matters. Really the reason I think its so good is that you can cast it turn 3, or we can tutor for it and cast turn 4 thru 6- where its a lot harder to do that w/ damnnation. Ive lost a lot of games because of that. Moreover, the amount of indestructible and shroud creatures is on the rise. Having one more answer to all that stuff is huge.
We shouldnt be afraid of losing too much life. Grey Merchant, koko, blood artist, Falkenwrath Noble, Sangromancer, and exsanguate all gain us a lot of life. I dont think people believe me when I say how good Sangromancer and Memory Jar are together. Its ridiculously good in multiplayer. Moreover its the closest thing to MILL that this deck should play IMO.
I really want Hart to be good, but I dont think we need it. Id run it in a budget version.
Ive still yet to get to test out erbos... In theory he should be amaze-balls... Its not hard for this deck to go into beatdown mode, and hes a good creature to do it. Nirk Rev and Kagemaru are my favorite beatsticks for when the 'times' come to that.
Yeah, the life from Deluge is so clearly irrelevant. That card is bonkers. Also relevant is the increased ability to sweep plus cast a draw spell to recover cards in the same turn. This potentially allows us to save an entire turn by not having to split up business and reload spells into two different turns.
I think my version is even more artifact-heavy than your I maaay test Merchant, but I don't like that he's mostly just a lifegain card. Especially since I have few ways to loop him in my build.
@Trancekat While I don't think deluge gives us a good match up vs UGx, it at least makes it a winnable battle. This card is devastating to Edric, and at cmc 3, we can draw into it, hit it with a 1 or 2 mana tutor spell, or fire off a draw 2/lose 2 spell to dig for it and still hit it in curve. It also goes a long way to nullify the die roll, because wiping an opponent on the cusp of t4 vs their t5 should be reeeeeeally significant given the developmental curve of EDH.
I recently changed my MBC deck from having Xiahou Dun, The One-Eyed to Chainer and I have to say in a multiplayer format Chainer is awsome. Grey Merchant of Asphodel is incredible, though I think that I have incurred the collective wrath from all members of my meta for as long as I play this deck.
Having said that I found Xiahou much more powerful in 1v1 as Chainer can be a bit clunky.
Has anyone play tested Abhorrent Overlord. It seems like it could be decent with mana producing sac outlets, potentially producing infinite black mana and with Sangromancer out infinite life gain as well.
I havent tried Overlord yet. He wouldnt be infinite life w/ sangomancer tho, he only gains you life for your opponents creatures dying. Disciple of Gristlebrand would do it though, since you'll have infinite mana already.
I like chainer in 1v1, though getting in for free commander damage w/ XHD seems cool- esp w/ lily dark realms.
Not sure where JMDT has been, so Im going to start working on making a new primer.
Ill make sure to message all the chainer players when I do, so they can post on it first and keep an updated list on the first page if they like.
Any information you think should be on the primer, like cards that should be mentioned post here and ill add it. Hopefully Ill have it up after thanksgiving!
So starting from the OP Deck List, what would you guys cut for Bob, Toxic Deluge, and GMoA?
I'm leaning towards Graveborn Muse, Oblivion Stone, and Kokusho, respectively. Muse seems like a no-brainer, Kokusho is pretty obvious, but O-Stone for Deluge is my sticking point, since O-Stone can clear out non-creature permanents.
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Im afraid it might be too slow, but 6 mana split between isnt too bad for a deck that wants to ramp so badly.
Id definitely better than Druidic Satchel, and I ran that for a long time.
3
Artifact Creature — Elk Uncommon
3, Sacrifice Burnished Hart: Search your library for up to two basic land cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
#213/249 2/2
Whip is cute. Im always wary of things that do what out general already does except worse. It depends how many 'backups' to chainer you prefer to run. I only run Strands of Night at the moment.
The card looks amazing for XHD as your commander tho.
Read The Bones looks playable. 2B Scry 2 draw 2. not bad
WHAT IM DROOLING ABOUT
Erebos, God of the Dead
3b
Legendary Enchantment Creature — God Mythic Rare
Indestructible
As long as your devotion to black is less than five, Erebos isn't a creature. (Each {B} in the mana costs of permanents you control counts towards your devotion to black.)
Your opponents can't gain life.
1{B}, Pay 2 life: Draw a card.
Illus. Peter Mohrbacher #85/249 5/7
...we can chainer it into play. if we dont have devotion, its not a nightmare... so it wont get exiled... which can be handy if you dont have the devotion and someone boardwipes.
The gray guy looks interesting.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Why is this better than Greed? Aside from Indestructible (which is pretty awesome), I don't want a creature enchantment since there's plenty of creature exile to be had in every meta I've played in.
While the effect is still there, if Erebos is not a creature (or tribal), he cannot have creature types.
If he is not a creature, he is not a nightmare.
If he ever becomes a creature, the effect will apply, and he will be a nightmare.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10725413#post10725413
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
I may test Whip of Erebos in place of Strands of Night. While the strands doesn't exile its target and is more permanent, the Lifelink from the whip is certainly welcome, along with the haste it grants to help deal damage faster. It's really a toss-up though, since the exile clause on the Whip really does hurt.
If you guys are looking for a land-grabbing artifact, instead of Druidic Satchel give Journeyer's Kite a try. In practice it's proven pretty fantastic for me.
If you suggest a card to add to a deck, suggest one to take out as well.
I was running murder before, just to have a 1 of single target unconditional removal spell for when things get dire. Hero's Downfall is a huge upgrade, because dealing with planeswalkers is a huge pain in mono black. My previous go to was something like tutor for Karn.
I just play both it and coffers. Once the game develops I've usually got it making around 7ish mana every turn. I wouldn't keep a hand with both it and coffers in it. Once your board state gets settled, one extra swamp isn't going to make much of a difference for coffers.
If you suggest a card to add to a deck, suggest one to take out as well.
I would rather just run deserted temple, thespian stage, and vesuva as extra coffers
Maybe if we ran more trip black permanents, and less artifacts it would be more appealling.
I prefer dismember and sickening shoal for my removal spells and I pack withering boon for etb creatures.
Late game hardcasting shoal isn't a big deal, and early game killing kaalia and other high threat generals asap while still being able to cast your spells is important.
that and I like having cheap responses in case I tap out while trying to win and get stopped.
by cheap I mean less than three.
B/c if we have three mana chances are we would probably have a better response of reanimating something with chained.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
So from Theros we got
Erebos, God of the Dead
Consistent card draw that can be recurred from our commander.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Even better wincon than Koko puffs. This guy is nuts.
Hero's Downfall
Not a bad removal spell if youre meta is planeswalker heavy, not necessary though.
Read the Bones
Quality draw 2 lose 2 that we love with scrying.
Burnished Hart
Its good ramp if you want to try and keep up with the green players. Probably easier to just run a tutor to find a mana doubler tbh.
Commander 2013 Review
Surveyor's Scope
I guess this one depends on the amount of green in your meta. Ive always really hated cards that depend so much on your opponents. Its worth testing though, and will probably be great late game after you get a terastodon trigger or two pointed at you.
[card]Baleful Force[card]
Probably too expensive for what we want to do when we have so many other options for draw 1 every turn. If you play a heavy discard/mill to reanimate strat hes not bad.
I'd run Bloodgift Demon over him though.
Curse of Shallow Graves
Maybe if you want more dies triggers to feed your Sangromancer? But then Tombstone Stairwell would probably be better. Maybe if you want to play political game... A lot of maybes with this card, probably not worth running.
Fell Shepherd
This guy has some kind of awesome combo potential lined up for himself, I doubt we'll see it in chainer though.
Hooded Horror
More of an aggro creature, good as a secondary voltron guy. Not our cup of tea.
Ophiomancer
Basically they fixed bitterblossom. This guy will be amazing in stax builds or just skullclamp happy decks. If you play stax chainer this guy might replace Pawn of Ulamog or just be your second copy. (also cute with Conspiracy and Reaper King, but i digress)
Price of Knowledge
This costs too much for me. But in a stax deck I can see its potential if you can lock down the game it could be a quick way to end the game.
Tempt with Immortality
black Primordial is probably better here. Or just chainer really.
Toxic Deluge
Im extremely excited about this card. A cheap wrath to fend off fast aggro is just what I was hoping for. Theres a lot of generals that hit the board too fast that we need to be able to take care of quick. Late game with enough life we can kill any creature.
I like it better than damnnation.
Then again, I dont mind paying life as long as it isnt the last one.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
All of the Commander 2013 cards seem pretty borderline to me. Toxic Deluge has the disadvantage of costing life, of which Chainer needs plenty. If your deck has more than the usual amount of life gain then I could see running it, otherwise it seems too painful. The four mana wraths like Mutilate and Barter in Blood are probably just better. I might be underestimating this card, since it is cheap and efficient at what it does. I think it is worth playing in an aggro meta, but probably not worth it otherwise.
I haven't had a chance to play my Chainer deck in a <coon's age>, but I have kept an eye out for good pick ups in the recent sets.
Erebos seems really intriguing, but I wonder if he is better than Greed (which I am testing, albeit very slowly :P). He has a lot of things going for him over Greed, indestructibility, opponents can't gain life, a decent body (all of which are offered at the same cmc)... but that extra per activation literally doubles the mana investment. Also, being a creature exposes him to tuck spells and rfg spells, but it makes him playable through the dreaded Gaddock Teeg. Erebos seems worth testing, imo, but I can't imagine running both him AND Greed, and since I have am not done testing whether the :symb:, pay 2 life: draw a card effect is worthwhile yet, I am in no rush to acquire an Erebos at the moment.
Grey Merchant seems like a like a possibility, I hope I don't end up being disappointed. I am already a bit disillusioned with Kokusho at the moment, although I really like the ETB rather than LTB timing on the Merchant. Then again, I don't go for giant recursive loops, so he probably does diddly in my build.
Burnished Hart I really, REALLY want to like, but eating up two turns to move us forward two turns seems... stagnant? It's neither fast ramp, nor overwhelmingly powerful ramp, so the idea of pissing away two full turns of prime development for this guy seems a bit unsettling. But I really love the idea of being +2 Swamps. He *does* seem better than all the +1 mana rocks, though, so if you are running those, maybe look into your Hart for the answer (side-splittingly funny, I know).
Toxic Deluge is the best thing I have ever seen ever for this or any other deck that taps for :symb:. Kills Edric decks, kills indestructible, casts through Teeg, comes down faster than all other sweepers... this here is the bee's knees. You start with 40 life. Invest a couple to kill the guys that would cost you even more life down the road. This card is bananas in pajamas. The best card I've ever seen for this deck outside of Chainer, and maybe even better than Chainer himself. Sweet baby Jesus in barbecue sauce, I want as many of these as I can get my hands on. (plus they will be legal in Legacy, I believe, so get them before their value skyrockets)
Edit: Forgot to address Read the Bones. I am excited but doubtful about this card. I like my card draw at two mana, so it'll be interesting to see if the extra takes it from staple to unplayable. This is DEFINITELY worth testing, though. Can't get enough of the draw two, lose two effects. Plus the fact that the scry comes before the draws? Exquisite.
Warning for inappropriate language. - cryogen
No offense meant by my terminology, but for what it's worth "[the term] actually refers to raccoons. The expression "in a coon's age" dates to the early 1800s, and to the folk belief that raccoons are long-lived."
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
I write EDH articles on EDHREC and MTGCasualPlay. I hope you like them!
EDH DECKLISTS
RGWUril, the Miststalker WBRKaalia of the Vast Sunforger WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUGDerevi, Empyrial TacticianWUBRGSliver Queen EDH
UB Wrexial, the Risen DeepWU Hanna, Ship's NavigatorWGSigarda, Host of Herons EnchantressWULavinia, of the Tenth
RRPurphoros, God of the ForgeBBChainer, Dementia MasterWWEight-and-a-Half TailsUUMuzzio, Visionary ArchitectGGJolrael, Empress of Beasts
BGVhati il-DalRWTajic, Blade of the LegionUBRZurgo HelmsmasherUBDaxos the ReturnedWBKarlov of the Ghost CouncilWUBruna, Light of Alabaster
RWAurelia Angel Tribal URJhoira Chaos Deck UGVorel +1 Counters BRGProssh Tokens
UBRGwendlyn Discard EDH URG Surrak Dragonclaw UBLazav Mill EDH WUBrago Flicker EDH Deck
JMDT is probably just busy with life. Worst comes to worst ill create a new chainer primer if we need an updated opening post.
Grey merchant is even better than KoKo- and thats in my artifact heavy version.
Him alone will offset the lifeloss of Toxic Deluge. I dont think the paying of life really matters. Really the reason I think its so good is that you can cast it turn 3, or we can tutor for it and cast turn 4 thru 6- where its a lot harder to do that w/ damnnation. Ive lost a lot of games because of that. Moreover, the amount of indestructible and shroud creatures is on the rise. Having one more answer to all that stuff is huge.
We shouldnt be afraid of losing too much life. Grey Merchant, koko, blood artist, Falkenwrath Noble, Sangromancer, and exsanguate all gain us a lot of life. I dont think people believe me when I say how good Sangromancer and Memory Jar are together. Its ridiculously good in multiplayer. Moreover its the closest thing to MILL that this deck should play IMO.
I really want Hart to be good, but I dont think we need it. Id run it in a budget version.
Ive still yet to get to test out erbos... In theory he should be amaze-balls... Its not hard for this deck to go into beatdown mode, and hes a good creature to do it. Nirk Rev and Kagemaru are my favorite beatsticks for when the 'times' come to that.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Yeah, the life from Deluge is so clearly irrelevant. That card is bonkers. Also relevant is the increased ability to sweep plus cast a draw spell to recover cards in the same turn. This potentially allows us to save an entire turn by not having to split up business and reload spells into two different turns.
I think my version is even more artifact-heavy than your I maaay test Merchant, but I don't like that he's mostly just a lifegain card. Especially since I have few ways to loop him in my build.
@Trancekat While I don't think deluge gives us a good match up vs UGx, it at least makes it a winnable battle. This card is devastating to Edric, and at cmc 3, we can draw into it, hit it with a 1 or 2 mana tutor spell, or fire off a draw 2/lose 2 spell to dig for it and still hit it in curve. It also goes a long way to nullify the die roll, because wiping an opponent on the cusp of t4 vs their t5 should be reeeeeeally significant given the developmental curve of EDH.
[EDH] Rafiq of the Many
[EDH]Chainer, Dementia Master
[EDH] Maelstrom Wanderer
Having said that I found Xiahou much more powerful in 1v1 as Chainer can be a bit clunky.
Has anyone play tested Abhorrent Overlord. It seems like it could be decent with mana producing sac outlets, potentially producing infinite black mana and with Sangromancer out infinite life gain as well.
Disciple of Gristlebrand would do it though, since you'll have infinite mana already.
I like chainer in 1v1, though getting in for free commander damage w/ XHD seems cool- esp w/ lily dark realms.
Not sure where JMDT has been, so Im going to start working on making a new primer.
Ill make sure to message all the chainer players when I do, so they can post on it first and keep an updated list on the first page if they like.
Any information you think should be on the primer, like cards that should be mentioned post here and ill add it. Hopefully Ill have it up after thanksgiving!
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
I'm leaning towards Graveborn Muse, Oblivion Stone, and Kokusho, respectively. Muse seems like a no-brainer, Kokusho is pretty obvious, but O-Stone for Deluge is my sticking point, since O-Stone can clear out non-creature permanents.