Why don't more people play this card? It's one of my favorite cards and I can't fathom a reason not to run it in 9/10 U/W(x) decks. Heck, I run it in my 5 color good stuff.
Here's my reasoning:
1) It's instant speed.
2) It can save your creatures OR stop an enemy's incoming fatty.
3) It nets (massive) card advantage.
4) It can remove counters and auras, and force them to spend mana re-equipping equipment. You'll also likely get bonus cards from the bonus to power that they add, and not need to discard anything extra when they return.
5) It kills tokens, and you never need to discard. See Dark Depths, Grove of the Guardian and Promise of Power.
6) It can be used on your own commander when it's going to die, and move it to the general zone. Some opponents may move their general's the the general zone, negating the discard.
7) It can be extra effective with ETB effects. See Rasputin Dreamweaver, Flickerwisp.
Can anyone tell me why it's not used more? I've never regretted drawing it, and I always seem to get a net 5 or 6 card gain, along with avoiding some unpleasant effect (like control magic or death grasp).
What do you think?
TL : DR - I love Vanish Into Memory and want to spread the word/ find out why people don't use it.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
6) It can be used on your own commander when it's going to die, and move it to the general zone. Some opponents may move their general's the the general zone, negating the discard.
Vanish into Memory will pull a general out of the Command zone on your upkeep, whether you want it to or not. (Assuming it was moved there and stayed there, of course. Something like Derevi popping back onto the field and then dying means Vanish won't bring it back.)
This is a good thing if you're exiling your own general and want it back, as you don't have to send it to exile and risk an opponent with Stifle.
I love ViM in my Rasputin deck, as it'll frequently be WU: Draw 4 cards, discard 1 card, and create a pool of :7mana:. (Sometimes better, if Rasputin's been buffed by something.)
Vanish into Memory will pull a general out of the Command zone on your upkeep, whether you want it to or not. (Assuming it was moved there and stayed there, of course. Something like Derevi popping back onto the field and then dying means Vanish won't bring it back.)
This is a good thing if you're exiling your own general and want it back, as you don't have to send it to exile and risk an opponent with Stifle.
I love ViM in my Rasputin deck, as it'll frequently be WU: Draw 4 cards, discard 1 card, and create a pool of :7mana:. (Sometimes better, if Rasputin's been buffed by something.)
Huh. It just keeps getting better doesn't it?
Funny thing is that I originally found it for my Rasputin deck. Then again, it IS beyond amazing in that deck.
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Its a decent card for sure. I currently run it in my Derivi deck where I could theoretically flicker him out with it and use his ability to put him back in play rather than letting the ability resolve. I like it for its versatility but if your creatures are mostly small it might end up relying on opponents creatures a lot. Utilizing swords is also tough with it while normally you want to use equipment for the power buffs. Swords often bring two colors of protection and that means just Sword of Feast and Famine can be used with it.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
1) It costs 4, and that's a lot for a blink effect, even if a good one
2) Most of the creatures have same P and T, so the card advantage is not that "massive"
3) Any removal spell does you 4) 5) and 6) points better or way cheaper
I've had times where I'm fine using it on an equal power and toughness. Sometimes it's to take avacyn, angel of hope out so I can wipe their board, (and another player geth's verdicts them when she returns.) but I've also just used him on an opponent's Avacyn (or any of a bunch of other fatties) to filter the top 8+ cards of my library and find a card I need to pull off the win.
With Omniscience the second effect can be negligible, because you'll just play everything relevant and discard lands.
To any who think it could end up as a dead draw, try it out. I don't think it's ever been a dead draw for me outside of a 2 player game. (And when it is, it's only because I'm breaking people so hard I don't need it.)
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My Decks:
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
If you use it on a creature with any equipment on it, you're probably getting a decent bit of card advantage. Which is usually possible. I'm a big fan of the card. I think its main drawback is, if you use it on your turn and draw a ton of cards, you might have to discard down to 7, then discard even more on your next turn, possibly resulting in an overall card advantage loss.
I kind of wonder: how many people know that this was the third You Make the Card?
It can be fun to use it on a clone in response to a wrath assuming you go before anyone who might drop any big creatures in behind the wrath. Or I guess if you own the clone.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I've had times where I'm fine using it on an equal power and toughness. Sometimes it's to take avacyn, angel of hope out so I can wipe their board, (and another player geth's verdicts them when she returns.) but I've also just used him on an opponent's Avacyn (or any of a bunch of other fatties) to filter the top 8+ cards of my library and find a card I need to pull off the win.
With Omniscience the second effect can be negligible, because you'll just play everything relevant and discard lands.
To any who think it could end up as a dead draw, try it out. I don't think it's ever been a dead draw for me outside of a 2 player game. (And when it is, it's only because I'm breaking people so hard I don't need it.)
But about the first example: is still worth to pay 4 for get rid until eot of avacyn and cycle 8 cards? If the opponent don't play that sac effect, it seems like the angel will be a big problem. If you played Sword to Plowshares instead, you could have done the same thing, paying 3 mana less and getting rid of her permanently.
So is it worth it? My opinion is that in any deck that "need to find that card" Vanish into Memory is a good tempo option for filtering your deck and keep your control on the board. Although, in decks that don't rely on particular combos/synergies, I'll prefer a normal removal, that would allow me to play something else in my turn, or hold my mana for a counterspell.
I've been considering trying it out in my Sydri, Galvaic Genius since nothing else seems to be working in that deck - animate an artifact, exile it, and it comes back in as an artifact, so you don't need to discard. If you use it to bounce a Spine of Ish Sah, then you'll also get the benefit of removal.
I used it on a nova chaser once. It is actually really awkward in my blink deck since most of my creatures have high toughness but I am saving space by having blink and card draw/filtering on one card.
But about the first example: is still worth to pay 4 for get rid until eot of avacyn and cycle 8 cards? If the opponent don't play that sac effect, it seems like the angel will be a big problem. If you played Sword to Plowshares instead, you could have done the same thing, paying 3 mana less and getting rid of her permanently.
So is it worth it? My opinion is that in any deck that "need to find that card" Vanish into Memory is a good tempo option for filtering your deck and keep your control on the board. Although, in decks that don't rely on particular combos/synergies, I'll prefer a normal removal, that would allow me to play something else in my turn, or hold my mana for a counterspell.
Thing is that that's a single use of the card. My argument is that Vanish into Memory is extremely versatile and worth a slot because it can be anything from a worse swords to a kill for the Dark Depths token, draw 20 cards, never discard. (Honestly the best use I can think of that's not very unlikely.)
Besides, a lot of the time you only need one turn to end the game, whether it's via an alpha strike that's being prevented by Blazing Archon, a combo being prevented by Angel of Jubilation or a Debt to the Deathless being blocked by Meddling Mage this is actually more effective than swords (mana costs aside.) given that it doesn't increase their life and nets you cards for the turn that matters.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUBCheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
Like others, I use it in Rasputin, but, I don't see it being especially great in many other U/W decks.
The draw/discard function and delayed return trigger are all fine, it's just the 2WU cost that gets me, especially if you're looking at it through the lens of being a response to removal. In Rasputin, you'll typically have an abundance of mana and he's 4/1, AND he resets his batteries, so you'll always have a good outlet for it barring tuck.
Got killed by this in my old Sharuum deck used it targetting a melek to keep him from comboing off so he radiateed it since its all he could do. Wound up drawing me to death and perma-exiling the board.
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Here's my reasoning:
1) It's instant speed.
2) It can save your creatures OR stop an enemy's incoming fatty.
3) It nets (massive) card advantage.
4) It can remove counters and auras, and force them to spend mana re-equipping equipment. You'll also likely get bonus cards from the bonus to power that they add, and not need to discard anything extra when they return.
5) It kills tokens, and you never need to discard. See Dark Depths, Grove of the Guardian and Promise of Power.
6) It can be used on your own commander when it's going to die, and move it to the general zone. Some opponents may move their general's the the general zone, negating the discard.
7) It can be extra effective with ETB effects. See Rasputin Dreamweaver, Flickerwisp.
Can anyone tell me why it's not used more? I've never regretted drawing it, and I always seem to get a net 5 or 6 card gain, along with avoiding some unpleasant effect (like control magic or death grasp).
What do you think?
TL : DR - I love Vanish Into Memory and want to spread the word/ find out why people don't use it.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
This is a good thing if you're exiling your own general and want it back, as you don't have to send it to exile and risk an opponent with Stifle.
I love ViM in my Rasputin deck, as it'll frequently be WU: Draw 4 cards, discard 1 card, and create a pool of :7mana:. (Sometimes better, if Rasputin's been buffed by something.)
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Huh. It just keeps getting better doesn't it?
Funny thing is that I originally found it for my Rasputin deck. Then again, it IS beyond amazing in that deck.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
My copy currently resides in Sydri, where so far it seems good on animated artifacts, or on anything with Cranial Plating.
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1) It costs 4, and that's a lot for a blink effect, even if a good one
2) Most of the creatures have same P and T, so the card advantage is not that "massive"
3) Any removal spell does you 4) 5) and 6) points better or way cheaper
About the point 7, you're totally right, though.
With Omniscience the second effect can be negligible, because you'll just play everything relevant and discard lands.
To any who think it could end up as a dead draw, try it out. I don't think it's ever been a dead draw for me outside of a 2 player game. (And when it is, it's only because I'm breaking people so hard I don't need it.)
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
I kind of wonder: how many people know that this was the third You Make the Card?
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Wow. Never thought of that with Sydri! Score!
Yeah, with Omniscience is awesome, I agree.
But about the first example: is still worth to pay 4 for get rid until eot of avacyn and cycle 8 cards? If the opponent don't play that sac effect, it seems like the angel will be a big problem. If you played Sword to Plowshares instead, you could have done the same thing, paying 3 mana less and getting rid of her permanently.
So is it worth it? My opinion is that in any deck that "need to find that card" Vanish into Memory is a good tempo option for filtering your deck and keep your control on the board. Although, in decks that don't rely on particular combos/synergies, I'll prefer a normal removal, that would allow me to play something else in my turn, or hold my mana for a counterspell.
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GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
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Thing is that that's a single use of the card. My argument is that Vanish into Memory is extremely versatile and worth a slot because it can be anything from a worse swords to a kill for the Dark Depths token, draw 20 cards, never discard. (Honestly the best use I can think of that's not very unlikely.)
While swords to plowshares is beyond a doubt better as removal in general, it can be worse in some situations. (Like vs. Dark Depths, Promise of Power, Ajani Goldmane and a plethora of other big tokens.)
Besides, a lot of the time you only need one turn to end the game, whether it's via an alpha strike that's being prevented by Blazing Archon, a combo being prevented by Angel of Jubilation or a Debt to the Deathless being blocked by Meddling Mage this is actually more effective than swords (mana costs aside.) given that it doesn't increase their life and nets you cards for the turn that matters.
Aggro: WUBRGHorde of Notions Goodstuff, RUB Cheesy Aggro, GR Xenagod Gruul Goodstuff
Control: GWBGhave, Guru of Adaptability, UBWrexial, Milling Deep UAzami, Lady of No Infinite Combos GWU Derevi, Tempo Beats
Other: URGRiku of Too Much Mana, WUBRG Sliver Queen Enchantress
The draw/discard function and delayed return trigger are all fine, it's just the 2WU cost that gets me, especially if you're looking at it through the lens of being a response to removal. In Rasputin, you'll typically have an abundance of mana and he's 4/1, AND he resets his batteries, so you'll always have a good outlet for it barring tuck.
In other decks, you might not. If you're playing Lavinia of the Tenth, it's probably playable. If you're playing Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer or Isperia the Inscrutable, maybe not so much.
tl;dr: 4 mana is a lot for a response. Rasputin skews the perceived usefulness, because Rasputin.
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URGRiku, Sorcerer SupremeGRU
Who needs permanents anyways?
WUBRGDeckbuilder's ToolboxGRBUW
Warning:Contents include 34 decks and growing