Ya, you might have been able to get the Mana Leak in there, perhaps over the Orangutan because you already have Predator and Pulse? Idk. I'd like to have another target or two for Snappy though. Also, dualcasting a Bribery is sick business, but I get the interaction with Nightmare you were looking for.
I thought of all of that and just couldn't decide on exactly the right configuration. I think that deck has an embarrassment of riches (if only I'd nabbed a Mox or something for some speed).
I really like both packages right now. Tempt and Bombardment have both really given a boost to token decks using red, and it's made Purphoros a top-drafted card now. And the blue changes basically doubled the quantity of blue tempo-decks we can build. We used to exclusively play XX/u tempo decks, and now we can build all those same decks in addition to 4 more UU/x decks.
I wasn't a fan of the heavy blue tempo decks before, because they were lacking that extra oomph that made me want to draft them. Thassa, Master and TNN all released within like 6 weeks of each other really changed that for me. They're THE reasons to start down the UU/x tempo path towards the beginning of the draft.
Second this. Vault is very time consuming and is only amazing in combo decks, which most cubes don't support. Consult is a choice between two mediocre cards (Divination and Mind Rot).
Far//Away is powerful and flexible removal. The base modes are slightly overcosted, but when you combine them, it can be quite devastating.
Ashiok is a very strong card against Midrange and Control, especially in a Midrange or Control deck. You pay once for him, and he provides a ton of pressure. You can +2 into his -X to put real threats into play for free, or just keep ticking up until you get a free Identity Crisis to force through a threat of your own (or continue +2ing to mill them out). Either way, he's a 3-mana walker who comes down with 5 loyalty and is tough to ignore.
Some other cards you might consider if neither of those hit your fancy: Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Strong support for the artifact deck. Even if you don't have a ton of artifact support, just having a powered Cube generally gives you enough targets for his +1 and -2 to be worthwhile. Ever beat someone down with a Mox Jet before? Sygg, River Cutthroat - This guy is a very interesting Tempo option. Curve a Gravecrawler or other 2-power one drop into him and start racking up the free card draw and just tempo out all of their future plays. He's particularly strong with Duskmantle Seer, as that occasionally means drawing an extra card when Seer Bobs them for 3+ on their turn. Recoil - It's almost an instant-speed Vindicate.
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-Duskmantle Seer and Sundering Titan in one deck? Seems a bit too risky. maybe if you only had that card, but you also have Tombstalker and Shriekmaw
- One extra reanimation spell would have been nice to have
- I am not sure about Curse of Shallow Grave in this deck. Are you really aggresive enough to run that?
Apart from those issues, a nice controllish midrange deck with a cool reanimation subtheme. I fear it might be too slow for some decks though. Killing planeswalkers can be problematic as well.
I think it looks like you're trying to do too many things there. You're playing a tempo deck, a control deck and a part of a reanimator deck all rolled up into one. I don't think you have the mana fixing for Geralf's Messenger if you're set on going 3 colors. I'd cut the blue and the reanimaton stuff and build a BR aggro deck.
Adding in Æther Adept, Into the Roil and Repeal all at once might have been a bit of an overload on added bounce for the cube, and we've really missed Impulse. It's a great card for so many decks, and we have noticed its absence. Particularly with how it interacts with Brainstorm/top of library effects.
Deglamer was a test that basically told me exactly what I needed to know. It's slightly better than Naturalize, but not better enough for me to want to include it. There's nothing in green on the outside looking in that I really want to play right now, so I'm going to re-add Awakening Zone and see how it plays in the more token-heavy environment.
Frostburn Weird was a fine card, but we like Izzet Charm more. It has cool graveyard interactions, can counter powerful spells, and can remove problematic utility/ramp creatures.
I like that aspect of Edge of Autumn too, but snagging dual lands (especially in 3+ color decks) is just too good to pass up. Thanks for the suggestion though.
I'm changing the Farseek add to Awakening Zone. Maybe with some more token support it will see some more play.
i personally feel like Awakening Zone is going too far with the token theme thing (I thought I was the Johnny guy?). I'll be shocked if that lasts two weeks in your cube.
There's a whole host of stuff I would run over that if I were you. In no particular order.
Korsan Tusker
Ohran Viper
Wolfir Avenger
Birthing Pod
Bow of Nylea
Carven Caryatid
i personally feel like Awakening Zone is going too far with the token theme thing (I thought I was the Johnny guy?). I'll be shocked if that lasts two weeks in your cube.
There's a whole host of stuff I would run over that if I were you. In no particular order.
Korsan Tusker
Ohran Viper
Wolfir Avenger
Birthing Pod
Bow of Nylea
Carven Caryatid
I have actually cubed every single one of those cards before, including Awakening Zone, and I like the Zone the most.
There really aren't any green cards on the outside looking in that I want to re-add at the moment. I figure I'll retest Zone in that slot because it has the most synergy with the suite of recently added in cards.
Zone is more about ramp than it is about tokens, but it does a lot of stuff for several different archetypes.
i personally feel like Awakening Zone is going too far with the token theme thing (I thought I was the Johnny guy?). I'll be shocked if that lasts two weeks in your cube.
There's a whole host of stuff I would run over that if I were you. In no particular order.
Korsan Tusker
Ohran Viper
Wolfir Avenger
Birthing Pod
Bow of Nylea
Carven Caryatid
I agree that Awakening Zone is probably better than all of these cards except maybe Tusker. I'd give the nod to the Zone because it's ramp and tokens, while Tusker is essentially just a decent draw spell that leaves a sometimes relevant fatty in the yard.
it's ramp, but it's super slow ramp. You have to wait a full turn to get 1 mana out of it and that's all you get unless you wait multiple turns (and can keep your super fragile useless 0/1 army alive).
If all you are using this for is ramp (and not the token generation), it's god awful. If you want ramp, Wood Elves gets you mana you can use now (and every turn for that matter) and gives you body too that can at least do damage. And it has interactions with blink effects.
Let me know how this thing plays out for you though. I like token producers as much as anyone, but next to something like Ophiomancer, this looks like utter garbage to me. It's bad ramp and it's a bad token producer. And I predict you will be posting about how you removed it before the new year.
Dude, I've played the card before. With one mana elf, you're casting 7 drops on T4. It can chump attackers, give you tokens to sac to Pox/Smokestack/Braids, it benefits from all the other token-related goodness, and it can be played in multiple archetypes.
Will it be replaced by the next good green card? Probably. But that's the case for any card I throw into that spot. Might as well get some good use out of the card while I can. I like it more than the other stuff in the on-deck binder right now.
Again, I've played the card before. I've had it in my cube list before. I've played it before. I've played it before.
You've played it before. I get that. Repeating it three times is a bit overkill. I can read and I knew that from your prior post anyway. I realize you don't really value my advice much, but I'm just giving you my 2 cents here man. Relax.
You took it out of your cube before right? Tells me it wasn't all that good for you otherwise it wouldn't have left. Two days ago, you were running Farseek in that spot for lack of better choices. Now I get that we have some new tools for tokens, so if you want to test it I say go for it. I simply don't think it's going to be worth a spot and I'll be shocked it this thing doesn't disappear from your list is short order.
Casting 7 drops on turn 4 requires that you make 4 straight land drops, get a mana elf on turn 1, this card turn two and you sacrifice both tokens on turn 4. Without any of your 1 toughness guys dying before this all comes together. Good luck with that. And even if it happens, you've only had turn three to disrupt what your opponent is doing. Your cube is heavy aggro right?
As a pure ramp spell, Awakening Zone is worse than several cards you could run. Arguing that point IMO is ridiculous. I get that it creates a token each turn which works nicely with several cards in cube. By all means run it for those interactions, but if you want that slot to be for ramp. This is not really a good choice.
I played it before and it was decent. It was cut because the cube shrank in size, not for performance issues. Re-testing it now makes sense, considering there's a ton of support that's been added in since the last time I played it that would make it better. So of all the meh green options, this is the best one at the moment.
I already said it probably won't last long. Neither would any other card that would go in instead, but this one has a chance of doing some work in the interim.
You said it was a bad ramp card. I don't agree. You said it was garbage. I don't agree. You seem to think that I don't know what to expect from it, but I do, because I've played the card in my cube before.
It's significantly better than you think it is, and your evaluation is off.
Casting 7 drops on turn 4 requires that you make 4 straight land drops, get a mana elf on turn 1, this card turn two and you sacrifice both tokens on turn 4. Without any of your 1 toughness guys dying before this all comes together. Good luck with that.
Is playing a T1 elf that rare in your cube? How often do you miss your 4th land drop? How often do your opponent's spend removal spells on eldrazi spawn tokens? It's not as hard to do this as you seem to exaggerate here.
Your cube is heavy aggro right?
That's okay though, because green ramp decks are midrange decks, and they matchup just fine with aggro.
As a pure ramp spell, Awakening Zone is worse than several cards you could run.
Good thing it's not a pure ramp spell then, huh?
You've played it before. I get that. Repeating it three times is a bit overkill. I can read and I knew that from your prior post anyway. I realize you don't really value my advice much, but I'm just giving you my 2 cents here man. Relax.
Saying a card's garbage that I've already played with doesn't seem like you do get it. If it was garbage, would I be re-adding it?
I value your advice just fine, but it's clear you have zero experience with the card.
I'm convinced to test Awakening Zone in my cube. wtwlf, would you mind checking out my cube tutor list and suggesting a cut? I'm considering Basking Rootwalla or Vinelasher Kudzu. Boon Satyr may seem like the obvious cut, but it's still a sexy new card in my book so it's not on the chopping block just yet.
I thought of all of that and just couldn't decide on exactly the right configuration. I think that deck has an embarrassment of riches (if only I'd nabbed a Mox or something for some speed).
Cheers,
rant
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I wasn't a fan of the heavy blue tempo decks before, because they were lacking that extra oomph that made me want to draft them. Thassa, Master and TNN all released within like 6 weeks of each other really changed that for me. They're THE reasons to start down the UU/x tempo path towards the beginning of the draft.
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It is. But I don't need to be heavy blue to play opposition. I was citing reasons to move into UU/x tempo, specifically.
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
Second this. Vault is very time consuming and is only amazing in combo decks, which most cubes don't support. Consult is a choice between two mediocre cards (Divination and Mind Rot).
Far//Away is powerful and flexible removal. The base modes are slightly overcosted, but when you combine them, it can be quite devastating.
Ashiok is a very strong card against Midrange and Control, especially in a Midrange or Control deck. You pay once for him, and he provides a ton of pressure. You can +2 into his -X to put real threats into play for free, or just keep ticking up until you get a free Identity Crisis to force through a threat of your own (or continue +2ing to mill them out). Either way, he's a 3-mana walker who comes down with 5 loyalty and is tough to ignore.
Some other cards you might consider if neither of those hit your fancy:
Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas - Strong support for the artifact deck. Even if you don't have a ton of artifact support, just having a powered Cube generally gives you enough targets for his +1 and -2 to be worthwhile. Ever beat someone down with a Mox Jet before?
Sygg, River Cutthroat - This guy is a very interesting Tempo option. Curve a Gravecrawler or other 2-power one drop into him and start racking up the free card draw and just tempo out all of their future plays. He's particularly strong with Duskmantle Seer, as that occasionally means drawing an extra card when Seer Bobs them for 3+ on their turn.
Recoil - It's almost an instant-speed Vindicate.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
-Duskmantle Seer and Sundering Titan in one deck? Seems a bit too risky. maybe if you only had that card, but you also have Tombstalker and Shriekmaw
- One extra reanimation spell would have been nice to have
- I am not sure about Curse of Shallow Grave in this deck. Are you really aggresive enough to run that?
Apart from those issues, a nice controllish midrange deck with a cool reanimation subtheme. I fear it might be too slow for some decks though. Killing planeswalkers can be problematic as well.
I feel compelled to repeat everything I hear
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http://cubetutor.com/cubedeck/52281
How is the blue tempo thing working out?
That deck is pretty sweet. I'd play Counterspell and Mana Leak over the two tempo counters in that list, and Morphling over Elesh Norn.
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Repeal -----> Impulse
Deglamer -----> Awakening Zone
Frostburn Weird -----> Izzet Charm
Adding in Æther Adept, Into the Roil and Repeal all at once might have been a bit of an overload on added bounce for the cube, and we've really missed Impulse. It's a great card for so many decks, and we have noticed its absence. Particularly with how it interacts with Brainstorm/top of library effects.
Deglamer was a test that basically told me exactly what I needed to know. It's slightly better than Naturalize, but not better enough for me to want to include it. There's nothing in green on the outside looking in that I really want to play right now, so I'm going to re-add Awakening Zone and see how it plays in the more token-heavy environment.
Frostburn Weird was a fine card, but we like Izzet Charm more. It has cool graveyard interactions, can counter powerful spells, and can remove problematic utility/ramp creatures.
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I like that it cycles when you don't care about the ramp anymore.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
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My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 49th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from MKM!
i personally feel like Awakening Zone is going too far with the token theme thing (I thought I was the Johnny guy?). I'll be shocked if that lasts two weeks in your cube.
There's a whole host of stuff I would run over that if I were you. In no particular order.
Korsan Tusker
Ohran Viper
Wolfir Avenger
Birthing Pod
Bow of Nylea
Carven Caryatid
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I have actually cubed every single one of those cards before, including Awakening Zone, and I like the Zone the most.
There really aren't any green cards on the outside looking in that I want to re-add at the moment. I figure I'll retest Zone in that slot because it has the most synergy with the suite of recently added in cards.
Zone is more about ramp than it is about tokens, but it does a lot of stuff for several different archetypes.
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I agree that Awakening Zone is probably better than all of these cards except maybe Tusker. I'd give the nod to the Zone because it's ramp and tokens, while Tusker is essentially just a decent draw spell that leaves a sometimes relevant fatty in the yard.
Cheers,
rant
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If all you are using this for is ramp (and not the token generation), it's god awful. If you want ramp, Wood Elves gets you mana you can use now (and every turn for that matter) and gives you body too that can at least do damage. And it has interactions with blink effects.
Let me know how this thing plays out for you though. I like token producers as much as anyone, but next to something like Ophiomancer, this looks like utter garbage to me. It's bad ramp and it's a bad token producer. And I predict you will be posting about how you removed it before the new year.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Dude, I've played the card before. With one mana elf, you're casting 7 drops on T4. It can chump attackers, give you tokens to sac to Pox/Smokestack/Braids, it benefits from all the other token-related goodness, and it can be played in multiple archetypes.
Will it be replaced by the next good green card? Probably. But that's the case for any card I throw into that spot. Might as well get some good use out of the card while I can. I like it more than the other stuff in the on-deck binder right now.
Again, I've played the card before. I've had it in my cube list before. I've played it before. I've played it before.
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You took it out of your cube before right? Tells me it wasn't all that good for you otherwise it wouldn't have left. Two days ago, you were running Farseek in that spot for lack of better choices. Now I get that we have some new tools for tokens, so if you want to test it I say go for it. I simply don't think it's going to be worth a spot and I'll be shocked it this thing doesn't disappear from your list is short order.
Casting 7 drops on turn 4 requires that you make 4 straight land drops, get a mana elf on turn 1, this card turn two and you sacrifice both tokens on turn 4. Without any of your 1 toughness guys dying before this all comes together. Good luck with that. And even if it happens, you've only had turn three to disrupt what your opponent is doing. Your cube is heavy aggro right?
As a pure ramp spell, Awakening Zone is worse than several cards you could run. Arguing that point IMO is ridiculous. I get that it creates a token each turn which works nicely with several cards in cube. By all means run it for those interactions, but if you want that slot to be for ramp. This is not really a good choice.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I already said it probably won't last long. Neither would any other card that would go in instead, but this one has a chance of doing some work in the interim.
You said it was a bad ramp card. I don't agree. You said it was garbage. I don't agree. You seem to think that I don't know what to expect from it, but I do, because I've played the card in my cube before.
It's significantly better than you think it is, and your evaluation is off.
Is playing a T1 elf that rare in your cube? How often do you miss your 4th land drop? How often do your opponent's spend removal spells on eldrazi spawn tokens? It's not as hard to do this as you seem to exaggerate here.
That's okay though, because green ramp decks are midrange decks, and they matchup just fine with aggro.
Good thing it's not a pure ramp spell then, huh?
Saying a card's garbage that I've already played with doesn't seem like you do get it. If it was garbage, would I be re-adding it?
I value your advice just fine, but it's clear you have zero experience with the card.
Thanks for the feedback.
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