I thought we were listing decks with blue (and "fair") that doesn't run TNN.
So far none, outside of Macius suggesting Pod (I have no idea what colors this deck runs).
I looked quickly and thought the quote was about just fair decks, but you're right. TNN will probably be omnipresent in blue fair decks like Delver is omnipresent in tempo decks, Deathrite Shaman in fair B/G decks, etc.
EDIT: I knew there was an actual part of the original quote that I was addressing:
I looked quickly and thought the quote was about just fair decks, but you're right. TNN will probably be omnipresent in blue fair decks like Delver is omnipresent in tempo decks, Deathrite Shaman in fair B/G decks, etc.
EDIT: I knew there was an actual part of the original quote that I was addressing:
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I thought we were listing decks with blue (and "fair") that doesn't run TNN.
So far none, outside of Macius suggesting Pod (I have no idea what colors this deck runs).
The typical Explorer Pod lists I'm seeing are BUG (or Gbu).
I doubt RUG Tempo Thresh will pick up True-Name Nemesis, as it has an extremely low curve (it has problems hitting 3 lands) and it rides on its creatures' efficiency, not necessarily their resiliency.
(I'm still trying to stuff Nemesis in Shardless BUG, though...I'll probably pull some Baleful Strixes for them...)
The typical Explorer Pod lists I'm seeing are BUG (or Gbu).
I doubt RUG Tempo Thresh will pick up True-Name Nemesis, as it has an extremely low curve (it has problems hitting 3 lands) and it rides on its creatures' efficiency, not necessarily their resiliency.
(I'm still trying to stuff Nemesis in Shardless BUG, though...I'll probably pull some Baleful Strixes for them...)
Yeah, classic RUG doesn't need it.
Sounds good/nice. About the best low-impact card to pull. I like Strix in a vacuum, but I've never actually liked to play with the card. Always felt so...lackluster. Though, losing Strix lessens the possible number of cascades Shardless Agent can do. IMO not really losing too much for losing Strix.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Am i the only person that thinks this card is completely overrated?
Dont get me wrong the protection from a player is extremely strong and isn't something to be ignored and it will change legacy forever.
I think maybe you are overeating this card! It will see play and be a staple probably for ever. But I doubt it's going to drastically shift the meta or turn the format on its head. The decks that run it will get a nice boost.
I think maybe you are overeating this card! It will see play and be a staple probably for ever. But I doubt it's going to drastically shift the meta or turn the format on its head. The decks that run it will get a nice boost.
It has a big impact on the war fair decks match up against each other. It won't shift the meta by making those decks better than unfair decks, but it will make fair matchups less interactive and hurt fair decks that don't play blue. There are ways for decks like Death and Taxes to deal with TNN, but they aren't very good and if you are forced to warp your gameplan around beating TNN you're in trouble.
Pffft, yeah, cause there was no way to hose graveyards in Modern! /sarcasm.
As much as I hate Scavenging Ooze in Modern, it did keep Melira Pod in check and the Jund dominance didn't last for long before the metagame corrected itself.
To be fair, Stoneforge Mystic doesn't exist in Modern, so equipment wouldn't be as much of a problem.
As much as I hate Scavenging Ooze in Modern, it did keep Melira Pod in check and the Jund dominance didn't last for long before the metagame corrected itself.
Although equipment isn't as much of a problem in Modern, some Nemesis hosers such as Engineered Plague, Innocent Blood, Diabolic Edict (Devour Flesh and Geth's Verdict come close, but opposing life gain and double black are surprisingly steep drawbacks), Toxic Deluge, Meekstone, Force of Will (counterspells hose Nemesis, too, and Legacy counterspells are fast), Daze, Counterspell, and (lucky) Hymn to Tourach are not Modern-legal. Black and blue decks definitely have a harder time dealing with Nemesis in Modern.
Knight of the Reliquary regularly being in Bolt range (i.e. can't outrace a Nemesis) in Modern because of its even higher Deathrite and significant Ooze popularity doesn't help. Losing Mom (which helps big stuff outrace Nemesis) hurts. Losing Jitte's decent race potential hurts. Losing SFM into Batterskull's 5 power on Turn 3 hurts. Even the loss of the ThopterSword and ThesDepths combos hurt because both of them can outrace a lone Nemesis once assembled.
Probably some of the few gains against Nemesis Modern gets include Tron decks that are way more popular than Legacy 12-Post (their fatties can outrace Nemesis). (I'd call Modern losing Combo Elves but gaining infinite combo-packing, creature-dense Pod decks a wash.)
I'd suspect that Nemesis would warp Modern more than Legacy because of the above and also because its combo decks tend to go off on Turn 4 instead of Legscy's Turns 1-3. Potential Nemesis decks in Modern would thus have more chances to draw into combo disruption.
As for Scavenging Ooze, it probably did keep Melira Pod from winning 4 Modern GPs in a row (though it didn't stop its 3rd, just warped the winning decklist), but it hasn't made Melira Pod less popular than its rival Twin Pod on MTGO. Jund was still one of the most popular Modern decks on MTGO post-Ooze before Wizards pulled the Dailies, and the success of its BGx Midrange cousins such as BG(w) Rock and arguably White Splash Jund doesn't help. It was popular enough that I saw it rack up the complaints in GP discussion threads during the Melira Pod streak, and I think 6 BGx Midrange decks made the Top 8 of one such GP.
I think this card in Bant could best showcase its strengths.... you have nobles ability to bring it out on your 2nd turn along with exalted triggers to make it bigger. exalted with counter back up seems like a sturdy set up for this card. Maybe bring KotR back to a more utility option instead of it being the #1 threat.
It has a big impact on the war fair decks match up against each other. It won't shift the meta by making those decks better than unfair decks, but it will make fair matchups less interactive and hurt fair decks that don't play blue. There are ways for decks like Death and Taxes to deal with TNN, but they aren't very good and if you are forced to warp your gameplan around beating TNN you're in trouble.
Not only is it one of the best cards you can have against non-Brainstorm/Force of Will decks, but its existence really warps the format against non-Brainstorm/FoW decks. Everyone is going to start playing 1-toughness sweepers to deal with it, which is really bad for decks running 1-toughness creatures. (read: All non-Brainstorm/FoW decks) Its existence also incentivizes playing combo, since combo doesn't care about it, which is also bad for non-Brainstorm/FoW decks because with a few matchup-specific exceptions, combo is an autoloss if you don't have Brainstorm and Force of Will.
I'm still in the "it's overrated" camp; but that's because I'm always running black. Never had issues with Geist unless I'd already lost; same with this guy I imagine.
I think this card obsoletes/blanks some decks that were already gone; like Zoo; which is sad but hardly game changing.
What he screws up (and why he's showing marks) are those decks overly reliant on Goyf, Skull, KotR etc and run no black; where their removal can't likely hit him and they rely on one big/dumb, non-trampling, non-evasive beaters.
TNN is having a negative effect on legacy overall. The changes TNN is bringing to the meta are making the format worse overall I would say in terms of deck construction and the strategies that TNN invalidates. We'll see where it goes over time but I as of right now I ****ing hate that they printed TNN and in blue no less...yup give blue some more love in eternal WotC clearly eternal needs some blue love /sarcasm
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TNN is having a negative effect on legacy overall. The changes TNN is bringing to the meta are making the format worse overall I would say in terms of deck construction and the strategies that TNN invalidates. We'll see where it goes over time but I as of right now I ****ing hate that they printed TNN and in blue no less...yup give blue some more love in eternal WotC clearly eternal needs some blue love /sarcasm
That reminds me of abrupt decay and DRS, just saying.
/flashback
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I've played TNN in my RWU deck now, and it's super good.
What makes it so amazing is it can just be nuts against fair decks. You can block their creatures for days and once you equip it with Jitte or Batterskull it's game over.
It's so good against fair decks in fact that it frees up more spots to put additional counterspells. I can run a full complement of Forces, Daze, and Spell Pierce. The result is that my deck is must stronger against combo decks as well.
I've played TNN in my RWU deck now, and it's super good.
What makes it so amazing is it can just be nuts against fair decks. You can block their creatures for days and once you equip it with Jitte or Batterskull it's game over.
It's so good against fair decks in fact that it frees up more spots to put additional counterspells. I can run a full complement of Forces, Daze, and Spell Pierce. The result is that my deck is must stronger against combo decks as well.
2nd this. If you look at Owen Turtenwald's decklist for example, dear lord is that sideboard geared towards combo due to how powerful TNN is against fair decks so now the only problem matchup is combo but look we can just sideboard infinite cards and solve the problem.
Deathrite and decay are fair cards. I have no problem with deathrite existing same with decay. They aren't close to what TNN poses in regards to the metagame at large and what it will do in legacy over the long haul. So fair decks aren't going to exist as long as TNN is in the format. Card is terribly designed and it's a mystery as to why they printed it (then again its the same people who consciously printed griselbrand and thought it might make for good experiences in formats. The only good experience I've had with griselbrand is when I hardcast it off of gilded lotus in standard but then immediately die due to act of treason stealing griselbrand. Everywhere else it's just oops I win because I got the flying lifelink bargain in play wooooo.)
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
TNN is a stupid card.
It makes non-blue fair decks basically unplayable...
My two friends who play legacy as well, originally put in two a piece, Two in Merfolk & Two in U/R Delver.
Now they both have a play set.
They're now all about TNN.
Before this card I would easily stomp the Delver deck (usually) and Merfolk was about 50-50.... Now pre-board it's impossible for me to win if they resolve him.
The only thing I have is edicts that can kill them but they don't work. (Counterspells and Young Pyromancer tokens out of Delver)
Yes, you can inquisition or hymn out them but if they topdeck it, you're screwed!
So I have to run a play set of Golgari Charm in the board and hope that works.
And I know I'm just complaining but this doesn't feel good for the meta.
It's going to wind up as "are you playing with him or against him" aka blue decks with TNN or combo.
I looked quickly and thought the quote was about just fair decks, but you're right. TNN will probably be omnipresent in blue fair decks like Delver is omnipresent in tempo decks, Deathrite Shaman in fair B/G decks, etc.
EDIT: I knew there was an actual part of the original quote that I was addressing:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/661941-list-of-stores-that-support-legacy
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?28892-Compilation-Of-Legacy-Streams
Ah, there we go. Yeah, those decks are real.
The typical Explorer Pod lists I'm seeing are BUG (or Gbu).
I doubt RUG Tempo Thresh will pick up True-Name Nemesis, as it has an extremely low curve (it has problems hitting 3 lands) and it rides on its creatures' efficiency, not necessarily their resiliency.
(I'm still trying to stuff Nemesis in Shardless BUG, though...I'll probably pull some Baleful Strixes for them...)
Yeah, classic RUG doesn't need it.
Sounds good/nice. About the best low-impact card to pull. I like Strix in a vacuum, but I've never actually liked to play with the card. Always felt so...lackluster. Though, losing Strix lessens the possible number of cascades Shardless Agent can do. IMO not really losing too much for losing Strix.
I think maybe you are overeating this card! It will see play and be a staple probably for ever. But I doubt it's going to drastically shift the meta or turn the format on its head. The decks that run it will get a nice boost.
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RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
It has a big impact on the war fair decks match up against each other. It won't shift the meta by making those decks better than unfair decks, but it will make fair matchups less interactive and hurt fair decks that don't play blue. There are ways for decks like Death and Taxes to deal with TNN, but they aren't very good and if you are forced to warp your gameplan around beating TNN you're in trouble.
I think True Name would be far, far, far too good in modern, where as Ooze was a card that was needed in the format.
Pffft, yeah, cause there was no way to hose graveyards in Modern! /sarcasm.
How To Keep Your FOIL Cards From Curling: http://youtu.be/QTmubrS8VnI
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There are plenty of ways to do so in modern, most of the graveyard hate printed has been recently, has it not?
I'm judging based on what people said when the card came out, they said it was great for modern.
To be fair, Stoneforge Mystic doesn't exist in Modern, so equipment wouldn't be as much of a problem.
As much as I hate Scavenging Ooze in Modern, it did keep Melira Pod in check and the Jund dominance didn't last for long before the metagame corrected itself.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Although equipment isn't as much of a problem in Modern, some Nemesis hosers such as Engineered Plague, Innocent Blood, Diabolic Edict (Devour Flesh and Geth's Verdict come close, but opposing life gain and double black are surprisingly steep drawbacks), Toxic Deluge, Meekstone, Force of Will (counterspells hose Nemesis, too, and Legacy counterspells are fast), Daze, Counterspell, and (lucky) Hymn to Tourach are not Modern-legal. Black and blue decks definitely have a harder time dealing with Nemesis in Modern.
Knight of the Reliquary regularly being in Bolt range (i.e. can't outrace a Nemesis) in Modern because of its even higher Deathrite and significant Ooze popularity doesn't help. Losing Mom (which helps big stuff outrace Nemesis) hurts. Losing Jitte's decent race potential hurts. Losing SFM into Batterskull's 5 power on Turn 3 hurts. Even the loss of the ThopterSword and ThesDepths combos hurt because both of them can outrace a lone Nemesis once assembled.
Probably some of the few gains against Nemesis Modern gets include Tron decks that are way more popular than Legacy 12-Post (their fatties can outrace Nemesis). (I'd call Modern losing Combo Elves but gaining infinite combo-packing, creature-dense Pod decks a wash.)
I'd suspect that Nemesis would warp Modern more than Legacy because of the above and also because its combo decks tend to go off on Turn 4 instead of Legscy's Turns 1-3. Potential Nemesis decks in Modern would thus have more chances to draw into combo disruption.
As for Scavenging Ooze, it probably did keep Melira Pod from winning 4 Modern GPs in a row (though it didn't stop its 3rd, just warped the winning decklist), but it hasn't made Melira Pod less popular than its rival Twin Pod on MTGO. Jund was still one of the most popular Modern decks on MTGO post-Ooze before Wizards pulled the Dailies, and the success of its BGx Midrange cousins such as BG(w) Rock and arguably White Splash Jund doesn't help. It was popular enough that I saw it rack up the complaints in GP discussion threads during the Melira Pod streak, and I think 6 BGx Midrange decks made the Top 8 of one such GP.
RUG
Enchantress
Not only is it one of the best cards you can have against non-Brainstorm/Force of Will decks, but its existence really warps the format against non-Brainstorm/FoW decks. Everyone is going to start playing 1-toughness sweepers to deal with it, which is really bad for decks running 1-toughness creatures. (read: All non-Brainstorm/FoW decks) Its existence also incentivizes playing combo, since combo doesn't care about it, which is also bad for non-Brainstorm/FoW decks because with a few matchup-specific exceptions, combo is an autoloss if you don't have Brainstorm and Force of Will.
Its a good card, but it won't turn a bad deck into a good deck just because you start running it.
I think this card obsoletes/blanks some decks that were already gone; like Zoo; which is sad but hardly game changing.
What he screws up (and why he's showing marks) are those decks overly reliant on Goyf, Skull, KotR etc and run no black; where their removal can't likely hit him and they rely on one big/dumb, non-trampling, non-evasive beaters.
Look, Fetch, Draw, Look
Draw
Fetch
Look
Currently Playing:
Retired
That reminds me of abrupt decay and DRS, just saying.
/flashback
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What makes it so amazing is it can just be nuts against fair decks. You can block their creatures for days and once you equip it with Jitte or Batterskull it's game over.
It's so good against fair decks in fact that it frees up more spots to put additional counterspells. I can run a full complement of Forces, Daze, and Spell Pierce. The result is that my deck is must stronger against combo decks as well.
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2nd this. If you look at Owen Turtenwald's decklist for example, dear lord is that sideboard geared towards combo due to how powerful TNN is against fair decks so now the only problem matchup is combo but look we can just sideboard infinite cards and solve the problem.
Deathrite and decay are fair cards. I have no problem with deathrite existing same with decay. They aren't close to what TNN poses in regards to the metagame at large and what it will do in legacy over the long haul. So fair decks aren't going to exist as long as TNN is in the format. Card is terribly designed and it's a mystery as to why they printed it (then again its the same people who consciously printed griselbrand and thought it might make for good experiences in formats. The only good experience I've had with griselbrand is when I hardcast it off of gilded lotus in standard but then immediately die due to act of treason stealing griselbrand. Everywhere else it's just oops I win because I got the flying lifelink bargain in play wooooo.)
Currently Playing:
Retired
It makes non-blue fair decks basically unplayable...
My two friends who play legacy as well, originally put in two a piece, Two in Merfolk & Two in U/R Delver.
Now they both have a play set.
They're now all about TNN.
Before this card I would easily stomp the Delver deck (usually) and Merfolk was about 50-50.... Now pre-board it's impossible for me to win if they resolve him.
The only thing I have is edicts that can kill them but they don't work. (Counterspells and Young Pyromancer tokens out of Delver)
Yes, you can inquisition or hymn out them but if they topdeck it, you're screwed!
So I have to run a play set of Golgari Charm in the board and hope that works.
And I know I'm just complaining but this doesn't feel good for the meta.
It's going to wind up as "are you playing with him or against him" aka blue decks with TNN or combo.
1. Add more Golgari Charm to sideboard
2. ?????
3. PROFIT!!!
Sure, this is off the top of my head but I think its right.....
12 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mutavault
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Cursecatcher
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Æther Vial
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Merrow Reejerey
3 Coralhelm Commander
3 Standstill
3 Silvergill Adept