The WB aggro deck is a very nice deck.. However the WR version is actually better simply due to the fact that it answers Blood Baron better with Mizzium Mortar. And Judges Familiar is actually better than the Dryad Militant. A turn one Familiar can always protect a turn two precinct captain or imposing sovereign
Wr may be comparable to Wb but it is by no stretch of the imagination better. The decks combat two different metas, Wb is much better vs mono blue and creature based strategies while Wr is marginally better vs. UWx control decks.
Familiar can be better than Militant at times though it makes for less explosive starts and makes the deck more synergy based. Granted, the dryad can be tapped down by Tidebender Mage which is mildly annoying though the added aggression easily makes up for it.
Wr may be comparable to Wb but it is by no stretch of the imagination better. The decks combat two different metas, Wb is much better vs mono blue and creature based strategies while Wr is marginally better vs. UWx control decks.
Familiar can be better than Militant at times though it makes for less explosive starts and makes the deck more synergy based. Granted, the dryad can be tapped down by Tidebender Mage which is mildly annoying though the added aggression easily makes up for it.
Ill give you credit on the aggression however... Throughout the course of the game you will find that the Familiar actually matches the Militant if not out right beats it in damage dealt mostly due to its evasion. It also triggers the battalion of the Elite and Skyjek easier and without as many risks... The WR base handles the Mono-Blue match up very easily considering the Banisher Priests and the 4x Last Breath's in the sideboard... Even Chris VanMeter has went on record numerous times talking about how he likes the WR version better than the WB... Both are very good the only difference is that the WB is the flavor of the week right now but in the end is only almost as good as the WR.
I've been thinking about W/B lately since the sideboard that black allows is insanely strong, and Orzhov charm in game 1 is just an all-star. I think this list is super strong, and DAT PROFIT // LOSS so legit lel. This deck is way slower than my current deck though.
Any thoughts on how to efficiently convert a Fortify deck into B/W? Running 16 1-drops, 8 of which aren't humans in addition to Xathrid Necromancer doesn't seem too amazing, but I can't imagine not running Fortify in white weenie right now.
I'm thinking I need to be a bit faster than the W/B deck posted above, but more resilient than my current deck. Thanks for any feedback ahead of time <3.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, the above W/B deck only runs 11 lands that allow a t1 1-drop, which is super inconsistent with the current deck I'm running. Seems like it'll be quite difficult to find a medium between the two that even allows mutavault to be included. I suppose that's the price we pay for wanting to play more powerful cards; dat consistency.
Alright, I am just ruining 2-mans with this deck. I went 7-1 in matches yesterday, Beat Mono B twice, Boros Devotion, Mono U twice, Orzhov White Weenie, and W/U control. Sole loss was to Mono U devotion that hit me with an overloaded rift in each game.
By turn 3 you usually know if you're going to win or not, and the decks average kill turn is 5 (not goldfishing kills, actual game kills). If your opponents stumble early whatsoever, turn 4 is the norm.
I'm busy all week starting today with Xmas, but someone needs to run this in DEs this week.
The deck is a pretty big gamble, flood is a death sentence, and if the game goes longer than turn 6 or 7, you're probably toast, but its remarkably consistent in being able to establish a board turns 1 and 2, drop an anthem turn 3, and follow up with BTE protection while dropping more threats after that.
This deck is also much faster than the other WW/Orzhov weenie decks, and (usually) outraces them easily. 7 Anthem effects, Judges familiar, and Ethereal Armor basically gets it done, but both of you are going to play the BTE game and leave a W open no matter what.
Concerning the WB list, I'm trying to understand why Xathrid Necromancer is used.
It's clearly not a silver bullet, but it's not good enough to regularly even be a 3 of, it doesn't allow for an alpha strike.
I can see why it works, and that it's good for the MBD matchup, but it just strikes me as a sideboard card.
Why not just Thoughtseize?
Ill give you credit on the aggression however... Throughout the course of the game you will find that the Familiar actually matches the Militant if not out right beats it in damage dealt mostly due to its evasion. It also triggers the battalion of the Elite and Skyjek easier and without as many risks... The WR base handles the Mono-Blue match up very easily considering the Banisher Priests and the 4x Last Breath's in the sideboard... Even Chris VanMeter has went on record numerous times talking about how he likes the WR version better than the WB... Both are very good the only difference is that the WB is the flavor of the week right now but in the end is only almost as good as the WR.
I've played with familiar and wasn't all that impressed. Currently, the best decks are:
Control: It's evasion is useless, and the ability has rarely been relevant for me - if you're playing it T1, then you don't have a fast enough clock to put pressure on, or you drop two more creatures and overextend into verdict.
Mono Blue: The ability is useless, and they play enough flyers to make the evasion useless too. Militant can trade with a raptor evolved once and if pumped trade with a spectre, something familiar can't.
Mono black: It again is nullified by the spectre, although it can be good here due to hero's downfall.
Other aggro: If they're blocking, you've already won. It's just a 1/1 for 1 here.
It just isn't agressive enough for the deck and can't do anything if they have a flying blocker.
Against mono blue, you need as many removal spells as you can get. Having an extra 3 from charms, plus the doom blades in addition to the last breaths helps quite a bit.
I've played with familiar and wasn't all that impressed. Currently, the best decks are:
Control: It's evasion is useless, and the ability has rarely been relevant for me - if you're playing it T1, then you don't have a fast enough clock to put pressure on, or you drop two more creatures and overextend into verdict.
Mono Blue: The ability is useless, and they play enough flyers to make the evasion useless too. Militant can trade with a raptor evolved once and if pumped trade with a spectre, something familiar can't.
Mono black: It again is nullified by the spectre, although it can be good here due to hero's downfall.
Other aggro: If they're blocking, you've already won. It's just a 1/1 for 1 here.
It just isn't agressive enough for the deck and can't do anything if they have a flying blocker.
Against mono blue, you need as many removal spells as you can get. Having an extra 3 from charms, plus the doom blades in addition to the last breaths helps quite a bit.
Huh, I've only been impressed by Judge's familiar. I run the 16 1-drop version though, so I want him anyway. He's great against mono black, and I think he's decent enough against control in that he makes their azorius charm play difficult (at the very least). I mean stopping an azorius charm early game is super powerful in a deck like this (much better than topping your precinct captain or boros elite).
The 16 one drop version of the deck likes Familiar a lot more than the higher curve versions as they want to make the opponent play as little removal as possible while they flood the board. Here is how Judges Familiar preforms vs the popular decks in the format:
Mono Blue- gets outclassed in the air by half their creatures and does little more than hold off an overloaded Cyclonic Rift.
Mono Black- does a fine job of holding off removal and giving us extra time, the matchup is already quite good and and the extra aggression of the other viable onedrops is missed.
Esper/UW control- The evasion is not at all useful since they don't play and creatures and you always wish for the extra power or the other onedrops, sometimes you can hold off early removal but it does nothing to stop Jace or Verdict.
Red based Devotion- Can fly over to peck the opponent and help with battalion but is a lot worse in a race; holds off Mizzium Mortars for a turn, sometimes.
Colossal Gruul- The flying and ability to turn on devotion is actually fairly good here, though it doesn't have anything to counter and is a worse early game threat.
Red aggro- strictly worse than the extra power of other guys, sometimes holds of a burn spell though they can just cast another threat instead.
The only thing I'm not sure on is whether or not I'll play any Xathrid Necromancers main, I'm thinking not right now but if the meta seem control heavy I may. Azourius control is a killer matchup and the only one I'm not more than 50% against in testing so that may merit necromancers in the main.
I played against Gw aggro, Colossal Gruul Devotion, Rug Devotion, and Gruul monsters. I also ID'd the last round because I was in no matter what. Overall the deck over performed and I will most likely run it back at another GPT next weekend.
The "(X/5)" next to each deck type is how I feel the deck ran in our testing, the higher number being better.
This deck is best against Control decks and Mono color decks.
Ramp devotion decks like G/R and R/W are kind of just a matter of who wins the die roll.
I've yet to test the aggro decks that don't use devotion (unlike Mono Blue) such as RDW and White Weenie.
This is just my findings through testing. If you guys feel I need to board differently or that I am underestimating/ overestimating any decks, then let me know.
P.S. I'd rather not even talk about the B/W "Control" matchup....
The "(X/5)" next to each deck type is how I feel the deck ran in our testing, the higher number being better.
This deck is best against Control decks and Mono color decks.
Ramp devotion decks like G/R and R/W are kind of just a matter of who wins the die roll.
I've yet to test the aggro decks that don't use devotion (unlike Mono Blue) such as RDW and White Weenie.
This is just my findings through testing. If you guys feel I need to board differently or that I am underestimating/ overestimating any decks, then let me know.
P.S. I'd rather not even talk about the B/W "Control" matchup....
I can understand why you would want Celestial Flare but I simply don't see it being a useful choice, especially here where it appears to be performing more silver bullet-esque roles. I like the card and think it is good however I'm sure that there are better choices.
For example, why not more Thoughtseize?
The "(X/5)" next to each deck type is how I feel the deck ran in our testing, the higher number being better.
This deck is best against Control decks and Mono color decks.
Ramp devotion decks like G/R and R/W are kind of just a matter of who wins the die roll.
I've yet to test the aggro decks that don't use devotion (unlike Mono Blue) such as RDW and White Weenie.
This is just my findings through testing. If you guys feel I need to board differently or that I am underestimating/ overestimating any decks, then let me know.
P.S. I'd rather not even talk about the B/W "Control" matchup....
Few points...
I'm not sure boarding out all your Brave the Elements is ever correct. Next to Mutavault, it's probably the best card in the deck. Especially against a deck like Mono Black with all targeted removal, blanking their entire third turn with a wasted Hero's Downfall is full of win. And if they ever get Pack Rat on board, Brave is about the only way you're going to get anything through. Also for Mono Black, Imposing Sovereign is still good just to minimize the effectiveness of Pack Rat tokens, keeping up pressure as well as drawing opponent's removal. It is correct to keep Spear in this matchup as you noted so you don't get blown out by Shrivel.
Against UWB/UW control decks, Brave is still good against Detention Sphere, Azorius Charm, Last Breath, Hero's Downfall, Doom Blade, Cyclonic Rift as well as getting past Elspeth tokens.
I can see taking out some number of it but usually I never board out more than 2x. Obviously all your Xathrid Necro's come in for these matchups. I like 2 Brave/4 Necro's usually for this matchup just cause with more Necro's, Brave gets slightly worse.
Also against RW Devotion, I don't think Celestial Flare is worth the addition (or anywhere in your 75 for that matter). I assume it's there for Stormbreath here? In my experience, Stormbreath isn't the thing that really kills you, it's the fast start with Ash Zealot, BTE, Frostburn Weird into a Fanatic of Mogis. Most times a RW devotion player doesn't need to attack to win...and most times you see them bust out two creatures and a Fanatic in one turn which gives you no time to use the Flare.
And actually Xathrid Necromancer at least stays in if not more added to combat an overloaded Mortars which is easy to pull off in that deck. Sure, Anger of the Gods can still get you, but that's why Brave stays in. I agree with the Doom Blade/Orzhov Charm switch. I don't agree with taking out all of your Spears though. Chandra Pyromaster absolutely WRECKS this deck and Spear is your best answer for her.
If you're looking for a card that does what Celestial Flare does but is more versatile, I would suggest Renounce the Guilds. Its main use is against Blood Baron of V...another card that wrecks this deck. Against Stormbreath decks, you already have Doom Blade, but Renounce is good in this matchup too because you need to keep their devotion count as low as possible. Getting a BTE, Reckoner, or Weird off the board is very important. In this matchup, it reads "Opponent sacs a creature and you gain up to 3 life." I play 2x in the board and usually board out a Dryad Militant or 2 for it.
One thing this deck as problems with also is a turn two Domri Rade and Renounce takes care of that card nicely.
EDIT: for reference my maindeck is identical to yours. My sideboard contains a few changes...Renounce the Guilds obviously and also includes Fiendslayer Paladin against red deck wins and mono black.
This is my first post in the competitive forum. I read the rules and I hope it's OK for me to post here. I have PT experience (but never made day 2). However, I just started playing again (about a month ago) after almost 15 years off. So I am kind of green right now, please bear with me. But, my interest in magic is, and was in the past, solely for the competitive aspect, so I have been lurking this forum for quite some time.
I am wondering if anyone else is still running mono white. I started out running Clownstabber's mono white fortify deck (in the budget forum), and it was very successful. Since then, I have dropped the "budget" aspect, and have also built the WW/r and WW/b decks, which I know are more often seen in the meta, especially WW/b recently.
I have played several matches with each deck, and I am just getting better records with mono white. The mono white deck is extremely consistent with the only matchups giving me grief being red (in which I side in fiendslayer paladin .. and maybe renounce the guilds if he is running a full suite of frostburns/reckoners) and mono black (actually a ~50% win rate against mono black, but it's a matchup I fear for some reason).
I initially was attracted to WW/b because I was very scared of supreme verdict when I started playing this deck and I saw Xathid as a way around that. But, I don't find it to be too much of a problem with this deck as long as we don't overextend. Azorious control is pretty much like a bye, and Esper Control is a good matchup round 1 and even better after siding in Renounce (gets dsphere and blood baron). And the other mass removal spells that are actually played (AoTG, overloaded mortars, sometimes electrickery) can be stopped by Brave (and even Xathrid can't stop AoTG).
WW/b offers a whole lot of removal options but I'm just not sure if they help enough to have to deal with lands coming into play tapped.
Then I looked at WW/r because of reach. I had great results with the old Type 1.X PT Jank deck (WW with lightning bolts) back in 1997-1998 (did I mention I'm old?) and this deck is a similar concept. But I could never get the beatdown consistency that mono white offers. And reach doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, despite what it looks like on paper. We have a number of ways of getting a late game swing in, even in mono white: Brave, Skyjeks, Fortify (though I have stopped playing it), Ajani, sometimes even Banisher Priest.
Anyway my own experiences are telling me that mono white is working out as good or better, but the splashes are much more popular at competitive levels. Am I off base here, or has anyone else had the same experience?
FWIW, right now I play on MTGO (2-man tournaments and dailies) mainly so it's a bit of an "everything" meta, but there is a whole lot of Mono B or Mono U devotion. I will enter this in a $1,000 standard tournament, an IQ, and some MTGO premiers in the very near future, so I should be able to get some good data.
This is my first post in the competitive forum. I read the rules and I hope it's OK for me to post here. I have PT experience (but never made day 2). However, I just started playing again (about a month ago) after almost 15 years off. So I am kind of green right now, please bear with me. But, my interest in magic is, and was in the past, solely for the competitive aspect, so I have been lurking this forum for quite some time.
I am wondering if anyone else is still running mono white. I started out running Clownstabber's mono white fortify deck (in the budget forum), and it was very successful. Since then, I have dropped the "budget" aspect, and have also built the WW/r and WW/b decks, which I know are more often seen in the meta, especially WW/b recently.
I have played several matches with each deck, and I am just getting better records with mono white. The mono white deck is extremely consistent with the only matchups giving me grief being red (in which I side in fiendslayer paladin .. and maybe renounce the guilds if he is running a full suite of frostburns/reckoners) and mono black (actually a ~50% win rate against mono black, but it's a matchup I fear for some reason).
I initially was attracted to WW/b because I was very scared of supreme verdict when I started playing this deck and I saw Xathid as a way around that. But, I don't find it to be too much of a problem with this deck as long as we don't overextend. Azorious control is pretty much like a bye, and Esper Control is a good matchup round 1 and even better after siding in Renounce (gets dsphere and blood baron). And the other mass removal spells that are actually played (AoTG, overloaded mortars, sometimes electrickery) can be stopped by Brave (and even Xathrid can't stop AoTG).
WW/b offers a whole lot of removal options but I'm just not sure if they help enough to have to deal with lands coming into play tapped.
Then I looked at WW/r because of reach. I had great results with the old Type 1.X PT Jank deck (WW with lightning bolts) back in 1997-1998 (did I mention I'm old?) and this deck is a similar concept. But I could never get the beatdown consistency that mono white offers. And reach doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, despite what it looks like on paper. We have a number of ways of getting a late game swing in, even in mono white: Brave, Skyjeks, Fortify (though I have stopped playing it), Ajani, sometimes even Banisher Priest.
Anyway my own experiences are telling me that mono white is working out as good or better, but the splashes are much more popular at competitive levels. Am I off base here, or has anyone else had the same experience?
FWIW, right now I play on MTGO (2-man tournaments and dailies) mainly so it's a bit of an "everything" meta, but there is a whole lot of Mono B or Mono U devotion. I will enter this in a $1,000 standard tournament, an IQ, and some MTGO premiers in the very near future, so I should be able to get some good data.
I've been playing some form of white weenie for the past couple of months. Started with the W/r splash and am now on the W/b splash which I believe is much more versatile, yet slightly less powerful. However, it's got a much better matchup against control which I've been seeing more of in my meta.
I would say that there is really no downside to having a splash...in fact, I would say you're just limiting yourself without a splash of either black or red. Basically the two colors with an on-color Temple land. Even though they come into play tapped, the scry ability is very much worth it. The reason why you won't have any issue here is our curve is so low, you shouldn't run into any issues with a tapped land on turns 1-3. Obviously you play the Temple land on turn 1 if you don't have a one drop, but most times you do and it's correct to play it on turn 1 always. Then most of the time you can hold your tap land as your third or fourth land to ensure you draw more gas.
I would seriously consider a splash color also just for the added options it opens up for your sideboard.
I've noticed the main difference in most lists is to ajani or not to ajani. I've yet to use him, though i see the merits of both sides. Has anyone tested both ways and if so how have results been?
I've noticed the main difference in most lists is to ajani or not to ajani. I've yet to use him, though i see the merits of both sides. Has anyone tested both ways and if so how have results been?
I've tested both with in without ajani and I think he helps in most matches though he is a bit slow at times. I usually play 1 or 2 depending on how aggressive I want to be. I would not recommend more than two as having too many three drops will mess up you're curve and you don't usually want to draw more than 1.
I've noticed the main difference in most lists is to ajani or not to ajani. I've yet to use him, though i see the merits of both sides. Has anyone tested both ways and if so how have results been?
I run the Wb list and I've used ajani in the main before and necromancer in the side. He was good, but not really needed because the deck has a lot more ways to push through damage because of its removal suite. He does have his merits though against green decks and control.
I've noticed the main difference in most lists is to ajani or not to ajani. I've yet to use him, though i see the merits of both sides. Has anyone tested both ways and if so how have results been?
After playing many versions of the deck, U can say I prefer Ajani over Spear in certain situations.
-A RG devotion, WB Midrange or Mono Blue devotion heavy meta
-If both Boros Elite and Precinct Captain are in the list (I have played with both, neither and each individually).
-If Judge's Familiar isn't in the list.
-If Frontline Medic or less than 12 1 drops are in the list.
Spear works better against Control/Midrange, with a lower curve, when Shrivel applies, or in the mirror.
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Wr may be comparable to Wb but it is by no stretch of the imagination better. The decks combat two different metas, Wb is much better vs mono blue and creature based strategies while Wr is marginally better vs. UWx control decks.
Familiar can be better than Militant at times though it makes for less explosive starts and makes the deck more synergy based. Granted, the dryad can be tapped down by Tidebender Mage which is mildly annoying though the added aggression easily makes up for it.
He's going to have to play lands to win - Paul Cheon
Decks:
Standard:
WBWb Weenie/Almost Orzhov AggroWB
UWUW ControlUW
Modern:
UWRUWR ControlUWR
Ill give you credit on the aggression however... Throughout the course of the game you will find that the Familiar actually matches the Militant if not out right beats it in damage dealt mostly due to its evasion. It also triggers the battalion of the Elite and Skyjek easier and without as many risks... The WR base handles the Mono-Blue match up very easily considering the Banisher Priests and the 4x Last Breath's in the sideboard... Even Chris VanMeter has went on record numerous times talking about how he likes the WR version better than the WB... Both are very good the only difference is that the WB is the flavor of the week right now but in the end is only almost as good as the WR.
I've been thinking about W/B lately since the sideboard that black allows is insanely strong, and Orzhov charm in game 1 is just an all-star. I think this list is super strong, and DAT PROFIT // LOSS so legit lel. This deck is way slower than my current deck though.
Any thoughts on how to efficiently convert a Fortify deck into B/W? Running 16 1-drops, 8 of which aren't humans in addition to Xathrid Necromancer doesn't seem too amazing, but I can't imagine not running Fortify in white weenie right now.
For reference this is my decklist right now:
3x Banisher Priest
4x Boros Elite
3x Daring Skyjek
3x Dryad Militant
2x Frontline Medic
3x Imposing Sovereign
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Precinct Captain
4x Soldier of the Pantheon
3x Fortify
1x Spear of Heliod
1x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
19 Plains
2 Mutavault
1x Banisher Priest
2x Celestial Flare
2x Glare of Heresy
3x Keening Apparition
2x Last Breath
2x Pacifism
1x Pithing Needle
2x Rootborn Defenses
I'm thinking I need to be a bit faster than the W/B deck posted above, but more resilient than my current deck. Thanks for any feedback ahead of time <3.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, the above W/B deck only runs 11 lands that allow a t1 1-drop, which is super inconsistent with the current deck I'm running. Seems like it'll be quite difficult to find a medium between the two that even allows mutavault to be included. I suppose that's the price we pay for wanting to play more powerful cards; dat consistency.
Standard Budget Decks Link:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/budget-standard/752237-clownstabbers-budget-decks
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Dryad Militant
3x Boros Elite
4x Precinct Captain
4x Banisher Priest
4x Ethereal Armor
4x Path of Bravery
3x Spear of Heliod
4x Brave the Elements
2x Mutavault
1x Renounce the Guilds
2x Heliod, God of The Sun
2x Profit//Loss
2x Sundering Growth
3x Daring Skyjek
1x Glare of Heresy
2x Rootborn Defenses
Alright, I am just ruining 2-mans with this deck. I went 7-1 in matches yesterday, Beat Mono B twice, Boros Devotion, Mono U twice, Orzhov White Weenie, and W/U control. Sole loss was to Mono U devotion that hit me with an overloaded rift in each game.
By turn 3 you usually know if you're going to win or not, and the decks average kill turn is 5 (not goldfishing kills, actual game kills). If your opponents stumble early whatsoever, turn 4 is the norm.
I'm busy all week starting today with Xmas, but someone needs to run this in DEs this week.
The deck is a pretty big gamble, flood is a death sentence, and if the game goes longer than turn 6 or 7, you're probably toast, but its remarkably consistent in being able to establish a board turns 1 and 2, drop an anthem turn 3, and follow up with BTE protection while dropping more threats after that.
This deck is also much faster than the other WW/Orzhov weenie decks, and (usually) outraces them easily. 7 Anthem effects, Judges familiar, and Ethereal Armor basically gets it done, but both of you are going to play the BTE game and leave a W open no matter what.
Standard:
RW Boros devotion/Purphoros combo
RGB Jund Midrange
Modern:
WB Martyr.proc
It's clearly not a silver bullet, but it's not good enough to regularly even be a 3 of, it doesn't allow for an alpha strike.
I can see why it works, and that it's good for the MBD matchup, but it just strikes me as a sideboard card.
Why not just Thoughtseize?
I've played with familiar and wasn't all that impressed. Currently, the best decks are:
Control: It's evasion is useless, and the ability has rarely been relevant for me - if you're playing it T1, then you don't have a fast enough clock to put pressure on, or you drop two more creatures and overextend into verdict.
Mono Blue: The ability is useless, and they play enough flyers to make the evasion useless too. Militant can trade with a raptor evolved once and if pumped trade with a spectre, something familiar can't.
Mono black: It again is nullified by the spectre, although it can be good here due to hero's downfall.
Other aggro: If they're blocking, you've already won. It's just a 1/1 for 1 here.
It just isn't agressive enough for the deck and can't do anything if they have a flying blocker.
Against mono blue, you need as many removal spells as you can get. Having an extra 3 from charms, plus the doom blades in addition to the last breaths helps quite a bit.
Huh, I've only been impressed by Judge's familiar. I run the 16 1-drop version though, so I want him anyway. He's great against mono black, and I think he's decent enough against control in that he makes their azorius charm play difficult (at the very least). I mean stopping an azorius charm early game is super powerful in a deck like this (much better than topping your precinct captain or boros elite).
Standard Budget Decks Link:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/budget-standard/752237-clownstabbers-budget-decks
Mono Blue- gets outclassed in the air by half their creatures and does little more than hold off an overloaded Cyclonic Rift.
Mono Black- does a fine job of holding off removal and giving us extra time, the matchup is already quite good and and the extra aggression of the other viable onedrops is missed.
Esper/UW control- The evasion is not at all useful since they don't play and creatures and you always wish for the extra power or the other onedrops, sometimes you can hold off early removal but it does nothing to stop Jace or Verdict.
Red based Devotion- Can fly over to peck the opponent and help with battalion but is a lot worse in a race; holds off Mizzium Mortars for a turn, sometimes.
Colossal Gruul- The flying and ability to turn on devotion is actually fairly good here, though it doesn't have anything to counter and is a worse early game threat.
Red aggro- strictly worse than the extra power of other guys, sometimes holds of a burn spell though they can just cast another threat instead.
He's going to have to play lands to win - Paul Cheon
Decks:
Standard:
WBWb Weenie/Almost Orzhov AggroWB
UWUW ControlUW
Modern:
UWRUWR ControlUWR
4x soldier of the pantheon
4x dryad militant
4x boros elite
4x precinct captain
4x daring skyjek
3x imposing sovereign
4x banisher priest
Spells:
4x brave the elements
2x orzhov charm
3x ajani, caller of the pride
Weapons:
2x spear of Heliod
Lands:
4x godless shrine
4x temple of silence
4x mutavault
9x plains
1x orzhov guildgate
3x doom blade
3x dark betrayal
2x thoughtseize
2x sin collector
2x xathrid necromancer
2x profit/loss
1x orzhov charm
I haven't lost a match or a game with this deck yet and it has been working amazingly. This deck is insane.
Have you tried xathrid necromancers in the maindeck, or did you try it and find they didn't work?
I used to have them mainboard and would always side them out. I still have them in the board for control which isn't very prevelant in my meta.
Ah. It makes sense that the GP list had them in the mainboard because UW and Esper were fairly common.
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
4 Mutavault
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Swamp
8 Plains
Creatures:
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Dryad Militant
4 Boros Elite
3 Imposing Sovereign
4 Daring Skyjek
4 Precinct Captain
4 Banisher Priest
3 Orzhov Charm
2 Spear of Heliod
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
3 Dark Betrayal
2 Thoughtsieze
3 Doom Blade
2 Sin Collector
3 Xathrid Necromancer
2 Profit // Loss
The only thing I'm not sure on is whether or not I'll play any Xathrid Necromancers main, I'm thinking not right now but if the meta seem control heavy I may. Azourius control is a killer matchup and the only one I'm not more than 50% against in testing so that may merit necromancers in the main.
He's going to have to play lands to win - Paul Cheon
Decks:
Standard:
WBWb Weenie/Almost Orzhov AggroWB
UWUW ControlUW
Modern:
UWRUWR ControlUWR
4x soldier of the pantheon
4x dryad militant
4x boros elite
4x precinct captain
4x daring skyjek
3x imposing sovereign
4x banisher priest
2x xathrid necromancer
4x brave the elements
3x orzhov charm
Weapons:
2x spear of Heliod
Lands:
4x godless shrine
4x temple of silence
4x mutavault
8x plains
1x orzhov guildgate
1x overgrown tomb
4x sin collector
4x doom blade
2x dark betrayal
2x thoughtseize
2x xathrid necromancer
1x profit/loss
I played against Gw aggro, Colossal Gruul Devotion, Rug Devotion, and Gruul monsters. I also ID'd the last round because I was in no matter what. Overall the deck over performed and I will most likely run it back at another GPT next weekend.
4 Dryad Militant
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Daring Skyjek
4 Precinct Captain
3 Imposing Sovereign
4 Banisher Priest
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Orzhov Charm
2 Spear of Heliod
8 Plains
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
2 Orzhov Guildgate
4 Mutavault
2 Thoughtseize
2 Dark Betrayal
3 Doom Blade
3 Celestial Flare
1 Orzhov Charm
2 Sin Collector
2 Xathrid Necromancer
I'll see you guys in Indianapolis!
Abzan Midrange
Modern:
Scapeshift
Mono Blue(5/5):
-2 Xathrid Necromancer = +1 Doom Blade +1 Orzhov Charm
Esper Control(5/5):
-4 Brave The Elements -1 Orzhov Charm = +2 Thoughtseize +3 Celestial Flare
-4 Banisher Priest = +2 Sin Collector +2 Xathrid Necromancer
UW Control(4/5):
-4 Brave The Elements = +2 Sin Collector +2 Thoughtseize
-3 Banisher Preist = +1 Orzhov Charm +2 Xathrid Necromancer
Mono Black(3.5/5):
-4 Brave the Elements = +2 Thoughtseize +2 Xathrid Necromancer
-3 Imposing Sovereign = +2 Dark Betrayal +1 Celestial Flare
Red/RW Devotion(3.5/5):
-2 Xathrid Necromancer -2 Spear of Heliod -2 Orzhov Charm = +3 Doom Blade +3 Celestial Flare
G/r Devotion(3/5):
-2 Xathrid Necromancer -2 Spear of Heliod = +3 Doom Blade +1 Orzhov Charm
B/W Control(2/5):
-2 Xathrid Necromancer = +2 Thoughtseize
-2 Spear of Heliod = +2 Dark Betrayal
-4 Banisher Priest = +1 Orzhov Charm +3 Celestial Flare
RDW(?):
-2 Xathrid Necromancer -2 Spear of Heliod = +3 Doom Blade +1 Orzhov Charm
White Weenie(?):
-2 Xathrid Necromancer -2 Banisher Priest = +1 Orzhov Charm +3 Doom Blade
The "(X/5)" next to each deck type is how I feel the deck ran in our testing, the higher number being better.
This deck is best against Control decks and Mono color decks.
Ramp devotion decks like G/R and R/W are kind of just a matter of who wins the die roll.
I've yet to test the aggro decks that don't use devotion (unlike Mono Blue) such as RDW and White Weenie.
This is just my findings through testing. If you guys feel I need to board differently or that I am underestimating/ overestimating any decks, then let me know.
P.S. I'd rather not even talk about the B/W "Control" matchup....
Abzan Midrange
Modern:
Scapeshift
I can understand why you would want Celestial Flare but I simply don't see it being a useful choice, especially here where it appears to be performing more silver bullet-esque roles. I like the card and think it is good however I'm sure that there are better choices.
For example, why not more Thoughtseize?
Esper/UW control:
-4 Banisher Priest
-3 Orzhov Charm
+3 Xathrid Necromancer
+2 Thoughseize
+2 Sin Collector
Mono Blue:
-4 Dryad Militant
-1 Xathrid Necromancer
+3 Doom Blade
+2 Profit // Loss
Mono Red Devotion/Rw Devotion
-1 Xathrid Necromancer
-2 Boros Elite
+3 Doom Blade
Mono Black Devotion:
-4 Banisher Priest
-2 Daring Skyjek
+3 Dark Betrayal
+3 Xathrid Necromancer
This is not at all a sideboarding guide, it's just what has worked for me. Any suggestions are certainly welcome.
He's going to have to play lands to win - Paul Cheon
Decks:
Standard:
WBWb Weenie/Almost Orzhov AggroWB
UWUW ControlUW
Modern:
UWRUWR ControlUWR
Few points...
I'm not sure boarding out all your Brave the Elements is ever correct. Next to Mutavault, it's probably the best card in the deck. Especially against a deck like Mono Black with all targeted removal, blanking their entire third turn with a wasted Hero's Downfall is full of win. And if they ever get Pack Rat on board, Brave is about the only way you're going to get anything through. Also for Mono Black, Imposing Sovereign is still good just to minimize the effectiveness of Pack Rat tokens, keeping up pressure as well as drawing opponent's removal. It is correct to keep Spear in this matchup as you noted so you don't get blown out by Shrivel.
Against UWB/UW control decks, Brave is still good against Detention Sphere, Azorius Charm, Last Breath, Hero's Downfall, Doom Blade, Cyclonic Rift as well as getting past Elspeth tokens.
I can see taking out some number of it but usually I never board out more than 2x. Obviously all your Xathrid Necro's come in for these matchups. I like 2 Brave/4 Necro's usually for this matchup just cause with more Necro's, Brave gets slightly worse.
Also against RW Devotion, I don't think Celestial Flare is worth the addition (or anywhere in your 75 for that matter). I assume it's there for Stormbreath here? In my experience, Stormbreath isn't the thing that really kills you, it's the fast start with Ash Zealot, BTE, Frostburn Weird into a Fanatic of Mogis. Most times a RW devotion player doesn't need to attack to win...and most times you see them bust out two creatures and a Fanatic in one turn which gives you no time to use the Flare.
And actually Xathrid Necromancer at least stays in if not more added to combat an overloaded Mortars which is easy to pull off in that deck. Sure, Anger of the Gods can still get you, but that's why Brave stays in. I agree with the Doom Blade/Orzhov Charm switch. I don't agree with taking out all of your Spears though. Chandra Pyromaster absolutely WRECKS this deck and Spear is your best answer for her.
If you're looking for a card that does what Celestial Flare does but is more versatile, I would suggest Renounce the Guilds. Its main use is against Blood Baron of V...another card that wrecks this deck. Against Stormbreath decks, you already have Doom Blade, but Renounce is good in this matchup too because you need to keep their devotion count as low as possible. Getting a BTE, Reckoner, or Weird off the board is very important. In this matchup, it reads "Opponent sacs a creature and you gain up to 3 life." I play 2x in the board and usually board out a Dryad Militant or 2 for it.
One thing this deck as problems with also is a turn two Domri Rade and Renounce takes care of that card nicely.
EDIT: for reference my maindeck is identical to yours. My sideboard contains a few changes...Renounce the Guilds obviously and also includes Fiendslayer Paladin against red deck wins and mono black.
This is my first post in the competitive forum. I read the rules and I hope it's OK for me to post here. I have PT experience (but never made day 2). However, I just started playing again (about a month ago) after almost 15 years off. So I am kind of green right now, please bear with me. But, my interest in magic is, and was in the past, solely for the competitive aspect, so I have been lurking this forum for quite some time.
I am wondering if anyone else is still running mono white. I started out running Clownstabber's mono white fortify deck (in the budget forum), and it was very successful. Since then, I have dropped the "budget" aspect, and have also built the WW/r and WW/b decks, which I know are more often seen in the meta, especially WW/b recently.
I have played several matches with each deck, and I am just getting better records with mono white. The mono white deck is extremely consistent with the only matchups giving me grief being red (in which I side in fiendslayer paladin .. and maybe renounce the guilds if he is running a full suite of frostburns/reckoners) and mono black (actually a ~50% win rate against mono black, but it's a matchup I fear for some reason).
I initially was attracted to WW/b because I was very scared of supreme verdict when I started playing this deck and I saw Xathid as a way around that. But, I don't find it to be too much of a problem with this deck as long as we don't overextend. Azorious control is pretty much like a bye, and Esper Control is a good matchup round 1 and even better after siding in Renounce (gets dsphere and blood baron). And the other mass removal spells that are actually played (AoTG, overloaded mortars, sometimes electrickery) can be stopped by Brave (and even Xathrid can't stop AoTG).
WW/b offers a whole lot of removal options but I'm just not sure if they help enough to have to deal with lands coming into play tapped.
Then I looked at WW/r because of reach. I had great results with the old Type 1.X PT Jank deck (WW with lightning bolts) back in 1997-1998 (did I mention I'm old?) and this deck is a similar concept. But I could never get the beatdown consistency that mono white offers. And reach doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, despite what it looks like on paper. We have a number of ways of getting a late game swing in, even in mono white: Brave, Skyjeks, Fortify (though I have stopped playing it), Ajani, sometimes even Banisher Priest.
Anyway my own experiences are telling me that mono white is working out as good or better, but the splashes are much more popular at competitive levels. Am I off base here, or has anyone else had the same experience?
FWIW, right now I play on MTGO (2-man tournaments and dailies) mainly so it's a bit of an "everything" meta, but there is a whole lot of Mono B or Mono U devotion. I will enter this in a $1,000 standard tournament, an IQ, and some MTGO premiers in the very near future, so I should be able to get some good data.
Here's the list:
4 Boros Elite
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Judges Familiar
4 Daring Skyjek
2 Imposing Sovereign
4 Banisher Priest
2 Spear of Heliod
4 Brave the Elements
4 Mutavault
18 Plains
(I switch between 2 spear, 2 sovereign and 3 spear, 1 sovereign constantly, but I think the above list curves better and offers more consistency)
3 Celestial Flare
3 Renounce the Guilds
3 Glare of Heresy
2 Pithing Needle
Welcome back to the game!
I've been playing some form of white weenie for the past couple of months. Started with the W/r splash and am now on the W/b splash which I believe is much more versatile, yet slightly less powerful. However, it's got a much better matchup against control which I've been seeing more of in my meta.
I would say that there is really no downside to having a splash...in fact, I would say you're just limiting yourself without a splash of either black or red. Basically the two colors with an on-color Temple land. Even though they come into play tapped, the scry ability is very much worth it. The reason why you won't have any issue here is our curve is so low, you shouldn't run into any issues with a tapped land on turns 1-3. Obviously you play the Temple land on turn 1 if you don't have a one drop, but most times you do and it's correct to play it on turn 1 always. Then most of the time you can hold your tap land as your third or fourth land to ensure you draw more gas.
I would seriously consider a splash color also just for the added options it opens up for your sideboard.
Here is my list:
4 Dryad Militant
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Daring Skyjek
4 Precinct Captain
3 Imposing Sovereign
4 Banisher Priest
2 Xathrid Necromancer
3 Orzhov Charm
2 Spear of Heliod
8 Plains
4 Godless Shrine
4 Temple of Silence
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Orzhov Guildgate
4 Mutavault
2 Thoughtseize
1 Dark Betrayal
2 Doom Blade
2 Renounce the Guilds
2 Profit // Loss
2 Fiendslayer Paladin
2 Sin Collector
2 Xathrid Necromancer
I've tested both with in without ajani and I think he helps in most matches though he is a bit slow at times. I usually play 1 or 2 depending on how aggressive I want to be. I would not recommend more than two as having too many three drops will mess up you're curve and you don't usually want to draw more than 1.
He's going to have to play lands to win - Paul Cheon
Decks:
Standard:
WBWb Weenie/Almost Orzhov AggroWB
UWUW ControlUW
Modern:
UWRUWR ControlUWR
I run the Wb list and I've used ajani in the main before and necromancer in the side. He was good, but not really needed because the deck has a lot more ways to push through damage because of its removal suite. He does have his merits though against green decks and control.
After playing many versions of the deck, U can say I prefer Ajani over Spear in certain situations.
-A RG devotion, WB Midrange or Mono Blue devotion heavy meta
-If both Boros Elite and Precinct Captain are in the list (I have played with both, neither and each individually).
-If Judge's Familiar isn't in the list.
-If Frontline Medic or less than 12 1 drops are in the list.
Spear works better against Control/Midrange, with a lower curve, when Shrivel applies, or in the mirror.