You know what disgusts me ? That you can live in a country where it's acceptable for companies to pay less than minimum wage and think it's ok as long as they pass off the wage costs on consumers.
Over here EVERYONE gets minimum wage no matter what, hence why it's called minimum wage , so a tip is exactly what it should be not a wage supplement.
I could also say there is no excuse for poor or even average service, when I receive good service I tip way more than 20% sometimes as high as 50% because I believe in awarding great service.
Yes, this is basically what runs through my head every time I tip.
Funny too, because at the university I attend, the local delivery places charges both a delivery charge and expects gratuity which confuses the utter **** out of me. I can sort of understand using tips as a polite way of saying service/delivery charge but these places charge both.
Not sure if you realize this or not....but that "Delivery Charge" doesnt usually go to the drivers. The company pockets that money.
A portion of the delivery charge does, I've known plenty of people who worked as delivery drivers, they may only get .75 or $1 of that $2.50-$3, but they do get a portion of every delivery charge (at least everyone of the dozens of people I know here in Oregon that have worked such jobs have).
Inevitably though, I am not made of money, I cannot afford to pay $10 for that pizza, plus another $3 for delivery, and another $2 tip on top of that. I would rather just go pick it up myself, or eat a frozen pizza if I have to pay another $5 to have a $10 pizza delivered, that's just ridiculous. While I feel for the delivery drivers, the ones here still make minimum wage or higher before tips, and their portion of the delivery charge. I rarely eat out, or order anything for delivery, because honestly it tends to be just ridiculously expensive these days, unless some place as a special advertised or its for a special occasion (like a birthday or something).
Honestly I think its just ridiculous how much some of these pizza delivery places charge for delivery. Back when it was $1 or $1.50, I considered that reasonable, and gave me room to leave a tip without breaking my own tightly controlled budget. When the delivery charge becomes $2.50-$3, then yeah, that's going to eat into any potential tip they are likely to get. Its not the delivery drivers fault, but there is a limit to how much I can spend on something like a delivered pizza.
Personally I find the best method for delivery charges to be how Jimmy Johns does it. They charge .25 per item for delivery, and they get the food to you within 10 minutes. Good delivery charge, fantastic service, and gives me plenty of room and incentive to give them that larger tip. I wish more places would do something like this, seems like it would make everyone happier in general.
You know what disgusts me ? That you can live in a country where it's acceptable for companies to pay less than minimum wage and think it's ok as long as they pass off the wage costs on consumers.
Over here EVERYONE gets minimum wage no matter what, hence why it's called minimum wage , so a tip is exactly what it should be not a wage supplement.
I could also say there is no excuse for poor or even average service, when I receive good service I tip way more than 20% sometimes as high as 50% because I believe in awarding great service.
Wage costs are already passed onto consumers, for every consumer-based businesses in existence.
Wages up go, costs on consumers go up.
Your anger at this makes no sense whatsoever, seeing as how if you removed tipping, then food that costs me 8 USD to eat may go up to as high as 14-15 USD (number pulled out of my ass, but businesses tend to be *******s so I wouldn't be surprised).
Wage costs are already passed onto consumers, for every consumer-based businesses in existence.
Wages up go, costs on consumers go up.
Your anger at this makes no sense whatsoever, seeing as how if you removed tipping, then food that costs me 8 USD to eat may go up to as high as 14-15 USD (number pulled out of my ass, but businesses tend to be *******s so I wouldn't be surprised).
The current tipping system passes of the costs to customers unequally since it's dependent on the customer's discretion. Given the "customary tipping culture" costs are increased with the 20% tip anyway.
If it's just total cost, an automatic 15 percent surcharge on top of minimum wage should keep costs fair to everyone. A generous customer and a cheap customer will be obliged to pay the same amount, since after all they're receiving the same goods and services. The waiters need not worry about whether this customer will give a tip or not at the back of their mind every single minute.
If it's just giving incentive for good work, no one's stopping customers from giving the staff members additional tip on top of their 15%.
Costs shouldn't be written in water. It's the reason why trade laws require that prices be displayed for all customers to see. Ancient usage has shown us that unwritten prices subject the customer to different prices depending on factor beyond their control. It's not about who gets more, it's really just about equality, fairness and fairplay.
The three (customer, employer, and employee) all derive some benefit out of the transaction. All should share a burden. The current setup seems to be only favoring the employer, burdening the customer with a position of "quasi-employer" and the employee the burden of uncertainty.
You know what disgusts me ? That you can live in a country where it's acceptable for companies to pay less than minimum wage and think it's ok as long as they pass off the wage costs on consumers.
Over here EVERYONE gets minimum wage no matter what, hence why it's called minimum wage , so a tip is exactly what it should be not a wage supplement.
I could also say there is no excuse for poor or even average service, when I receive good service I tip way more than 20% sometimes as high as 50% because I believe in awarding great service.
US tipping practice is more of the exception rather than the general rule. That's why European and Asian staff members love serving US guests.
Here tipping is always optional since all of our workers are guaranteed to get minimum wage. In China, Taiwan and Japan we tried to give a tip and they even politely refused saying it's not necessary. In most countries in Europe and South America tipping is likewise optional.
It's really US labor laws that caused these peculiar tipping practices. If you'll look at it black and white it simply makes more sense to codify everything into laws, fixed wages and fixed prices so it's fair to employers, customers and employees. Everyone shares equal burden.
Reegarding tipping plumbers, I give them a tip because of the contingent nature of the work. Besides they don't charge as much here. For a day's work they'd already be incredibly happy with $30 (total price). Regarding waiters here, even if you dine at Marriott or Hyatt the waiters are already happy with a $1 tip. They're already earning minimum wage and your token of appreciation already means a lot to them.
I guess people here are less calculating when it comes to these things. Most of them are already grateful with the fact that they have a job, and you as a customer are keeping the business alive. People here who visit the US all say that US customer service is very objective and impersonal. Very efficient, but impersonal.
I think you can put things into perspective more if you travel to different countries. Small things like tipping are really rooted in one's culture. There's no hard and fast universal rule.
Note: Just to be clear I'm not living in the US
Wow the differences are just insane, here tipping $1 is actually WORSE (at high end establishments) than NOT tipping, its a way of telling the waiter "I thought about tipping you, however your service was SO poor that you don't deserve it but here is a $1 to PROVE I thought about it and didn't forget.
{mikeyG} I have never IN MY LIFE of being a long time Tim's drinker EVER seen a tip jar at a Tim Hortans (from 17 years of drinking tims), nor have I seen or heard of ANYONE ever tipping at a Tims. Star bucks/second cup yes, but NEVER at a Tim's.
I tend to tip based on fix value per head attending, (generally $5 a head) however I "ding" people a quarter for each mistake/rude interaction or slow service. Normally people do between 2-4 with this method, I had one waiter who cluded in and got the full amount, I have had waiters who got down to 0. really depends on the service. (since most meals I go to cap at $20 each it starts as a 25% base)
...a country where it's acceptable for companies to pay less than minimum wage and think it's ok as long as they pass off the wage costs on consumers.
Please don't confuse state and national laws.
When I worked as a server, I made <$2/hour and tips did not push it over minimum wage. They were forced to pay me the difference to reach minimum wage.
It had nothing to do with my being a poor server or customer service. It was managements fault for having 6 servers for lunch when the place would only have 12-15 tables come in...and I get stuck with a 1 and 2 drop.
{mikeyG} I have never IN MY LIFE of being a long time Tim's drinker EVER seen a tip jar at a Tim Hortans (from 17 years of drinking tims), nor have I seen or heard of ANYONE ever tipping at a Tims. Star bucks/second cup yes, but NEVER at a Tim's.
They don't have tip jars, but they absolutely do receive tips. They keep buckets behind the counter to collect all the change and another one by the drive thru window for change from there. In every province I've been in (big cities to small towns), I've known Tim Hortons workers and they all get a cut of the pool, which is usually quite big. I've never known someone to leave a shift at Tim Hortons with less than $35. So you may not be tipping or not noticing others that do, or maybe where you're from everyone's just really cheap and don't tip, but that's not what I've come to expect as the norm for Tim Hortons.
Wow the differences are just insane, here tipping $1 is actually WORSE (at high end establishments) than NOT tipping, its a way of telling the waiter "I thought about tipping you, however your service was SO poor that you don't deserve it but here is a $1 to PROVE I thought about it and didn't forget.
{mikeyG} I have never IN MY LIFE of being a long time Tim's drinker EVER seen a tip jar at a Tim Hortans (from 17 years of drinking tims), nor have I seen or heard of ANYONE ever tipping at a Tims. Star bucks/second cup yes, but NEVER at a Tim's.
I tend to tip based on fix value per head attending, (generally $5 a head) however I "ding" people a quarter for each mistake/rude interaction or slow service. Normally people do between 2-4 with this method, I had one waiter who included in and got the full amount, I have had waiters who got down to 0. really depends on the service. (since most meals I go to cap at $20 each it starts as a 25% base)
People here already get minimum wage. Laws also mandate that they get a 13th month pay during Christmas and that includes waiters and dishwashers.
At Marriott there's already a 10% automatic surcharge, so they're already pretty happy with a $1 or $2 tip. The tip's really more of a token of gratitude rather than a living wage, and I think that's the way it should be. Makes service more sincere and personal.
This tipping culture is actually one of the reasons why I don't like customer service in the spas here. Unlike our restaurants, spas here have a similar tipping model to the US, hence the spa personnel are earning less than minimum wage. You can really feel the difference in sincerity of customer service.
i've already seen a couple of discussions about tipping in my year at this site, and it greatly surprises me how users from the US admit to not tipping or tipping bad. i lived in the US most of my life and never knew anyone at any level to not tip. leads me to believe it has something to do with the culture of people that play mtg?
They don't have tip jars, but they absolutely do receive tips. They keep buckets behind the counter to collect all the change and another one by the drive thru window for change from there. In every province I've been in (big cities to small towns), I've known Tim Hortons workers and they all get a cut of the pool, which is usually quite big. I've never known someone to leave a shift at Tim Hortons with less than $35. So you may not be tipping or not noticing others that do, or maybe where you're from everyone's just really cheap and don't tip, but that's not what I've come to expect as the norm for Tim Hortons.
Toronto.... I often to for coffee with people from work, none of them tip, I haven't seen anyone tip at a tims. you would think in 17 years of going to different Tim's 2-3 times a work day, that I would have notice it once. I also have had friends who worked at tim's never once have I heard about tips.... As this is my favorate coffee place I am now currious as to why you feel you need to tip their and how prevailant it is. I would feel quite bad if I have been doing this for years (and my family, and my friends) and never tipped the system when it was normal to do so. I mean I always viewed as like a Mcdonalds I wouldn't tip their either, I pick up the coffee/food then leave....
i've already seen a couple of discussions about tipping in my year at this site, and it greatly surprises me how users from the US admit to not tipping or tipping bad. i lived in the US most of my life and never knew anyone at any level to not tip. leads me to believe it has something to do with the culture of people that play mtg?
I also do not personally know people that tip or tip poorly.
However as someone who has worked as a server and as a bartender there is a microcosm of our society that acts this way too. Frankly, I do not think it has anything to do with MTG players. Generally those who tip poorly try to justify their actions through disagreement with the system as a whole. To be blunt, I believe this is a self-serving action that makes cheap people feel better about themselves.
It is simply a part of this culture, if one does not like it, then don't go to places where tipping is expected.
I hate waiting in line, does that mean when I go to the DMV that I can simply choose to not wait in line and cut in front? This concept of choosing to not participate in this aspect of our culture is arrogance and nothing more. If you really hate it that much, then separate yourself from that aspect of our culture, otherwise play by the rules and stop being a cheap ass.
I also do not personally know people that tip or tip poorly.
However as someone who has worked as a server and as a bartender there is a microcosm of our society that acts this way too. Frankly, I do not think it has anything to do with MTG players. Generally those who tip poorly try to justify their actions through disagreement with the system as a whole. To be blunt, I believe this is a self-serving action that makes cheap people feel better about themselves.
It is simply a part of this culture, if one does not like it, then don't go to places where tipping is expected.
I hate waiting in line, does that mean when I go to the DMV that I can simply choose to not wait in line and cut in front? This concept of choosing to not participate in this aspect of our culture is arrogance and nothing more. If you really hate it that much, then separate yourself from that aspect of our culture, otherwise play by the rules and stop being a cheap ass.
Defending a bad practice for 'cultural' reasons is BS.
I came from a 'culture' that took this practice a few steps further. When my grandmother was dying in the hospital, the nurses and doctors would neglect her because my aunt failed to give them the 'customary' gift that families of the sick gave them to assure that their loves ones would receive proper treatment.
Tipping in the US does not usually take matters that far but I still view it as a corrupt practice. It is described as a 'gratuity' or reward for extra service but it has in essence become a hidden service fee. Businesses make their prices look cheaper and more attractive by neglecting to mention that you are expected to pay 10-20% extra in order to get proper service. People are fooled by it so businesses perpetuate the practice in order to stay competitive.
I also do not personally know people that tip or tip poorly.
However as someone who has worked as a server and as a bartender there is a microcosm of our society that acts this way too. Frankly, I do not think it has anything to do with MTG players. Generally those who tip poorly try to justify their actions through disagreement with the system as a whole. To be blunt, I believe this is a self-serving action that makes cheap people feel better about themselves.
I know several people who are chronic bad/no tippers. They're generally jerks to begin with. The underlying problem is that they are projecting their disdain of the system onto someone who has no control over that system. It's a pretty poorly thought out attitude. This is by no means a reliable cross-section, just my personal anecdote.
I just remember my wife's friend's boyfriend not leaving a tip on the friend's birthday, despite only having to pay for himself and her. The friend's mother ended up leaving the tip in his place. I can't think of anything that shows a more casual disregard for others than something like that, but she's still with him, despite him allowing his soon to be mother-in-law leave his tip for him (it would have been about $6). It's not a heinous crime, but it's a major character flaw. Even if you hate tipping, you don't let your girlfriend's mom pay a tip you refuse to.
Edit: The real test of a person's character is how generous or kind they are when they don't have to be. Poor/No tippers fail that test in my book, and is generally a deal breaker if I'm still getting to know someone.
This is, of course, excluding people who don't know the culture, partly.
Toronto.... I often to for coffee with people from work, none of them tip, I haven't seen anyone tip at a tims. you would think in 17 years of going to different Tim's 2-3 times a work day, that I would have notice it once. I also have had friends who worked at tim's never once have I heard about tips....
You may want to ask them. Though I'd be very, very shocked if they received no tips. I have honestly never heard of a Tim Hortons where customers didn't tip. I'd say it's a regional thing, but I've been across the country twice and never have I seen otherwise. I can't explain why you haven't.
As this is my favorate coffee place I am now currious as to why you feel you need to tip their and how prevailant it is.
I would say it's exceptionally prevalent. To the point that I'd say non-tipped Tims Hortons are a very small exception and not the rule.
As for why I tip, simple courtesy and generosity mixed with food and beverage solidarity. Usually just small change, but I'll toss a bit more for larger and/or more complex orders. I figured that most people did.
As for why I tip, simple courtesy and generosity mixed with food and beverage solidarity. Usually just small change, but I'll toss a bit more for larger and/or more complex orders. I figured that most people did.
So why not tip the guy working at McDonald's? Why the double standard? Or would you tip if you ordered coffee at McDonald's but would not tip if you ordered a burger?
So why not tip the guy working at McDonald's? Why the double standard? Or would you tip if you ordered coffee at McDonald's but would not tip if you ordered a burger?
I don't eat fast food. But as I said before, there isn't a social convention of tipping for fast food, it's not a service society has deemed worth tipping for. You want to equate the two to justify not tipping at one because the other doesn't get tips, but the fact is that they are different jobs with differing skillsets. And as strange and arbitrary as it is, society has made it more commonplace to tip one and commonplace to not tip the other. If the double standard offends you so, I'd suggest leaving change at McDonalds.
I have tipped at some fast food places (I still do at Subway when I go), but I generally wouldn't because what are all of the staff going to do with splitting the change one person leaves them? Were it a convention and I ate at fast food places, I'm sure I would tip.
Now, this has never come up for me (and hopefully wouldn't) but I'm just curious about something.
Lets say for example that someone only has $10 left until their next paycheck, and they notice a restaurant is running a $9.99 special that sounds good to them. Should that person go and enjoy the $9.99 special with their $10, and just not leave a tip because they don't have the money to be able to do so, or should they just not go because they don't have enough to be able to leave a tip on top of the cost of the food (thus depriving the business of a potential $10 in sales).
In this case, assume that the person does not have access to any other money, and will be dining alone.
Defending a bad practice for 'cultural' reasons is BS.
I came from a 'culture' that took this practice a few steps further. When my grandmother was dying in the hospital, the nurses and doctors would neglect her because my aunt failed to give them the 'customary' gift that families of the sick gave them to assure that their loves ones would receive proper treatment.
Tipping in the US does not usually take matters that far but I still view it as a corrupt practice. It is described as a 'gratuity' or reward for extra service but it has in essence become a hidden service fee. Businesses make their prices look cheaper and more attractive by neglecting to mention that you are expected to pay 10-20% extra in order to get proper service. People are fooled by it so businesses perpetuate the practice in order to stay competitive.
Jesus, you took this to a dark place fast. It's ****ing tipping, man, not life or death. And it ain't exactly "hidden", either. Everybody in America knows what it is. It's not like the restaurants ambush you with it at the end of the meal. It is, in fact, extremely rare (and considered quite rude) for the staff to even mention it. If for some reason you don't know that you're supposed to tip, or you just don't want to, they have to suck up that loss. So who exactly do you think is being "fooled" here?
There is a world of difference between "maybe a little bit unnecessarily quirky" and "corrupt". Get some perspective, dude.
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A few of my jewish friends would know before hand the total price of their meal and would put an above average amount of tip (usually 25% rounded up) in 1 dollar bills on the table. Whenever they feel they were forgotten about, had to wait longer than intended, water glass got empty, etc they would remove a dollar for each event.
Jesus, you took this to a dark place fast. It's ****ing tipping, man, not life or death. And it ain't exactly "hidden", either. Everybody in America knows what it is. It's not like the restaurants ambush you with it at the end of the meal. It is, in fact, extremely rare (and considered quite rude) for the staff to even mention it. If for some reason you don't know that you're supposed to tip, or you just don't want to, they have to suck up that loss. So who exactly do you think is being "fooled" here?
There is a world of difference between "maybe a little bit unnecessarily quirky" and "corrupt". Get some perspective, dude.
but in some places it is life or death. Ignorance is not bliss. What you don't lnow can and will kill you.
Doesn't hurt to ask either (well some have too much pride to do so)
A few of my jewish friends would know before hand the total price of their meal and would put an above average amount of tip (usually 25% rounded up) in 1 dollar bills on the table. Whenever they feel they were forgotten about, had to wait longer than intended, water glass got empty, etc they would remove a dollar for each event.
Yeah, tip less for poor service, but if you're going to make it an exercise in conspicuous passive aggression, you're really just drawing attention to your own problems.
but in some places it is life or death. Ignorance is not bliss. What you don't lnow can and will kill you.
If there is a restaurant in America where you can die if you don't tip, I am fairly confident that will appear prominently in the OpenTable reviews. And police reports.
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It is, as far as I've ever known. As I mentioned before, you're the first person to ever tell me there isn't an expectation there. Google 'barista tipping' and you'll find a great deal of consensus on it. Starbucks supervisors are even entitled to a cut.
See, I've never heard of that.
I would understand barista tipping if you're sitting down in a cafe and someone is bringing the coffee to you after you're done. But I've never heard of it being expected to tip at a Starbucks. I've also worked briefly as a barista, and it was by no means expected that people tip us. People did, it was appreciated, but it wasn't expected in the same sense that a waiter would expect a tip.
A few of my jewish friends would know before hand the total price of their meal and would put an above average amount of tip (usually 25% rounded up) in 1 dollar bills on the table. Whenever they feel they were forgotten about, had to wait longer than intended, water glass got empty, etc they would remove a dollar for each event.
That's because your friends are jerks.
Flashing displays of wealth, being openly snobbish in front of people, and being passive-aggressive instead of openly communicating problems to the waitstaff/manager like a mature adult would?
I hope they also came in dressed like cavemen and grunted their orders. If you're going to abandon any semblance of manners or social graces, you should at least go full tilt.
Yes, this is basically what runs through my head every time I tip.
Funny too, because at the university I attend, the local delivery places charges both a delivery charge and expects gratuity which confuses the utter **** out of me. I can sort of understand using tips as a polite way of saying service/delivery charge but these places charge both.
A portion of the delivery charge does, I've known plenty of people who worked as delivery drivers, they may only get .75 or $1 of that $2.50-$3, but they do get a portion of every delivery charge (at least everyone of the dozens of people I know here in Oregon that have worked such jobs have).
Inevitably though, I am not made of money, I cannot afford to pay $10 for that pizza, plus another $3 for delivery, and another $2 tip on top of that. I would rather just go pick it up myself, or eat a frozen pizza if I have to pay another $5 to have a $10 pizza delivered, that's just ridiculous. While I feel for the delivery drivers, the ones here still make minimum wage or higher before tips, and their portion of the delivery charge. I rarely eat out, or order anything for delivery, because honestly it tends to be just ridiculously expensive these days, unless some place as a special advertised or its for a special occasion (like a birthday or something).
Honestly I think its just ridiculous how much some of these pizza delivery places charge for delivery. Back when it was $1 or $1.50, I considered that reasonable, and gave me room to leave a tip without breaking my own tightly controlled budget. When the delivery charge becomes $2.50-$3, then yeah, that's going to eat into any potential tip they are likely to get. Its not the delivery drivers fault, but there is a limit to how much I can spend on something like a delivered pizza.
Personally I find the best method for delivery charges to be how Jimmy Johns does it. They charge .25 per item for delivery, and they get the food to you within 10 minutes. Good delivery charge, fantastic service, and gives me plenty of room and incentive to give them that larger tip. I wish more places would do something like this, seems like it would make everyone happier in general.
Wage costs are already passed onto consumers, for every consumer-based businesses in existence.
Wages up go, costs on consumers go up.
Your anger at this makes no sense whatsoever, seeing as how if you removed tipping, then food that costs me 8 USD to eat may go up to as high as 14-15 USD (number pulled out of my ass, but businesses tend to be *******s so I wouldn't be surprised).
The current tipping system passes of the costs to customers unequally since it's dependent on the customer's discretion. Given the "customary tipping culture" costs are increased with the 20% tip anyway.
If it's just total cost, an automatic 15 percent surcharge on top of minimum wage should keep costs fair to everyone. A generous customer and a cheap customer will be obliged to pay the same amount, since after all they're receiving the same goods and services. The waiters need not worry about whether this customer will give a tip or not at the back of their mind every single minute.
If it's just giving incentive for good work, no one's stopping customers from giving the staff members additional tip on top of their 15%.
Costs shouldn't be written in water. It's the reason why trade laws require that prices be displayed for all customers to see. Ancient usage has shown us that unwritten prices subject the customer to different prices depending on factor beyond their control. It's not about who gets more, it's really just about equality, fairness and fairplay.
The three (customer, employer, and employee) all derive some benefit out of the transaction. All should share a burden. The current setup seems to be only favoring the employer, burdening the customer with a position of "quasi-employer" and the employee the burden of uncertainty.
Perfect Quote :nod:, i agreed completely.
Wow the differences are just insane, here tipping $1 is actually WORSE (at high end establishments) than NOT tipping, its a way of telling the waiter "I thought about tipping you, however your service was SO poor that you don't deserve it but here is a $1 to PROVE I thought about it and didn't forget.
{mikeyG} I have never IN MY LIFE of being a long time Tim's drinker EVER seen a tip jar at a Tim Hortans (from 17 years of drinking tims), nor have I seen or heard of ANYONE ever tipping at a Tims. Star bucks/second cup yes, but NEVER at a Tim's.
I tend to tip based on fix value per head attending, (generally $5 a head) however I "ding" people a quarter for each mistake/rude interaction or slow service. Normally people do between 2-4 with this method, I had one waiter who cluded in and got the full amount, I have had waiters who got down to 0. really depends on the service. (since most meals I go to cap at $20 each it starts as a 25% base)
Please don't confuse state and national laws.
When I worked as a server, I made <$2/hour and tips did not push it over minimum wage. They were forced to pay me the difference to reach minimum wage.
It had nothing to do with my being a poor server or customer service. It was managements fault for having 6 servers for lunch when the place would only have 12-15 tables come in...and I get stuck with a 1 and 2 drop.
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They don't have tip jars, but they absolutely do receive tips. They keep buckets behind the counter to collect all the change and another one by the drive thru window for change from there. In every province I've been in (big cities to small towns), I've known Tim Hortons workers and they all get a cut of the pool, which is usually quite big. I've never known someone to leave a shift at Tim Hortons with less than $35. So you may not be tipping or not noticing others that do, or maybe where you're from everyone's just really cheap and don't tip, but that's not what I've come to expect as the norm for Tim Hortons.
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People here already get minimum wage. Laws also mandate that they get a 13th month pay during Christmas and that includes waiters and dishwashers.
At Marriott there's already a 10% automatic surcharge, so they're already pretty happy with a $1 or $2 tip. The tip's really more of a token of gratitude rather than a living wage, and I think that's the way it should be. Makes service more sincere and personal.
This tipping culture is actually one of the reasons why I don't like customer service in the spas here. Unlike our restaurants, spas here have a similar tipping model to the US, hence the spa personnel are earning less than minimum wage. You can really feel the difference in sincerity of customer service.
Toronto.... I often to for coffee with people from work, none of them tip, I haven't seen anyone tip at a tims. you would think in 17 years of going to different Tim's 2-3 times a work day, that I would have notice it once. I also have had friends who worked at tim's never once have I heard about tips.... As this is my favorate coffee place I am now currious as to why you feel you need to tip their and how prevailant it is. I would feel quite bad if I have been doing this for years (and my family, and my friends) and never tipped the system when it was normal to do so. I mean I always viewed as like a Mcdonalds I wouldn't tip their either, I pick up the coffee/food then leave....
I also do not personally know people that tip or tip poorly.
However as someone who has worked as a server and as a bartender there is a microcosm of our society that acts this way too. Frankly, I do not think it has anything to do with MTG players. Generally those who tip poorly try to justify their actions through disagreement with the system as a whole. To be blunt, I believe this is a self-serving action that makes cheap people feel better about themselves.
It is simply a part of this culture, if one does not like it, then don't go to places where tipping is expected.
I hate waiting in line, does that mean when I go to the DMV that I can simply choose to not wait in line and cut in front? This concept of choosing to not participate in this aspect of our culture is arrogance and nothing more. If you really hate it that much, then separate yourself from that aspect of our culture, otherwise play by the rules and stop being a cheap ass.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10498534#post10498534
Defending a bad practice for 'cultural' reasons is BS.
I came from a 'culture' that took this practice a few steps further. When my grandmother was dying in the hospital, the nurses and doctors would neglect her because my aunt failed to give them the 'customary' gift that families of the sick gave them to assure that their loves ones would receive proper treatment.
Tipping in the US does not usually take matters that far but I still view it as a corrupt practice. It is described as a 'gratuity' or reward for extra service but it has in essence become a hidden service fee. Businesses make their prices look cheaper and more attractive by neglecting to mention that you are expected to pay 10-20% extra in order to get proper service. People are fooled by it so businesses perpetuate the practice in order to stay competitive.
I know several people who are chronic bad/no tippers. They're generally jerks to begin with. The underlying problem is that they are projecting their disdain of the system onto someone who has no control over that system. It's a pretty poorly thought out attitude. This is by no means a reliable cross-section, just my personal anecdote.
I just remember my wife's friend's boyfriend not leaving a tip on the friend's birthday, despite only having to pay for himself and her. The friend's mother ended up leaving the tip in his place. I can't think of anything that shows a more casual disregard for others than something like that, but she's still with him, despite him allowing his soon to be mother-in-law leave his tip for him (it would have been about $6). It's not a heinous crime, but it's a major character flaw. Even if you hate tipping, you don't let your girlfriend's mom pay a tip you refuse to.
Edit: The real test of a person's character is how generous or kind they are when they don't have to be. Poor/No tippers fail that test in my book, and is generally a deal breaker if I'm still getting to know someone.
This is, of course, excluding people who don't know the culture, partly.
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You may want to ask them. Though I'd be very, very shocked if they received no tips. I have honestly never heard of a Tim Hortons where customers didn't tip. I'd say it's a regional thing, but I've been across the country twice and never have I seen otherwise. I can't explain why you haven't.
I would say it's exceptionally prevalent. To the point that I'd say non-tipped Tims Hortons are a very small exception and not the rule.
As for why I tip, simple courtesy and generosity mixed with food and beverage solidarity. Usually just small change, but I'll toss a bit more for larger and/or more complex orders. I figured that most people did.
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Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
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So why not tip the guy working at McDonald's? Why the double standard? Or would you tip if you ordered coffee at McDonald's but would not tip if you ordered a burger?
I don't eat fast food. But as I said before, there isn't a social convention of tipping for fast food, it's not a service society has deemed worth tipping for. You want to equate the two to justify not tipping at one because the other doesn't get tips, but the fact is that they are different jobs with differing skillsets. And as strange and arbitrary as it is, society has made it more commonplace to tip one and commonplace to not tip the other. If the double standard offends you so, I'd suggest leaving change at McDonalds.
I have tipped at some fast food places (I still do at Subway when I go), but I generally wouldn't because what are all of the staff going to do with splitting the change one person leaves them? Were it a convention and I ate at fast food places, I'm sure I would tip.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Lets say for example that someone only has $10 left until their next paycheck, and they notice a restaurant is running a $9.99 special that sounds good to them. Should that person go and enjoy the $9.99 special with their $10, and just not leave a tip because they don't have the money to be able to do so, or should they just not go because they don't have enough to be able to leave a tip on top of the cost of the food (thus depriving the business of a potential $10 in sales).
In this case, assume that the person does not have access to any other money, and will be dining alone.
[Clan Flamingo]
Jesus, you took this to a dark place fast. It's ****ing tipping, man, not life or death. And it ain't exactly "hidden", either. Everybody in America knows what it is. It's not like the restaurants ambush you with it at the end of the meal. It is, in fact, extremely rare (and considered quite rude) for the staff to even mention it. If for some reason you don't know that you're supposed to tip, or you just don't want to, they have to suck up that loss. So who exactly do you think is being "fooled" here?
There is a world of difference between "maybe a little bit unnecessarily quirky" and "corrupt". Get some perspective, dude.
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I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
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Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
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but in some places it is life or death. Ignorance is not bliss. What you don't lnow can and will kill you.
Doesn't hurt to ask either (well some have too much pride to do so)
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
If there is a restaurant in America where you can die if you don't tip, I am fairly confident that will appear prominently in the OpenTable reviews. And police reports.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
See, I've never heard of that.
I would understand barista tipping if you're sitting down in a cafe and someone is bringing the coffee to you after you're done. But I've never heard of it being expected to tip at a Starbucks. I've also worked briefly as a barista, and it was by no means expected that people tip us. People did, it was appreciated, but it wasn't expected in the same sense that a waiter would expect a tip.
That's because your friends are jerks.
Flashing displays of wealth, being openly snobbish in front of people, and being passive-aggressive instead of openly communicating problems to the waitstaff/manager like a mature adult would?
I hope they also came in dressed like cavemen and grunted their orders. If you're going to abandon any semblance of manners or social graces, you should at least go full tilt.
As is the original poster who inferred that their faith was a cause for their actions.