I think he's quite a bit worse than Quinn, actually. Quinn has some really stompy lane matchups and is an effective pseudo-assassin late.
Lucian has poor laning. He's not unsalvageable but more matchups are against him than are for him. He simply can't trade with most of the stronger laning ADCs and is only effective if he's allowed to hit his Q or his double ups in favorable trades, which are entirely in his opponent's control.
He's decent in skirmishes and practically untouchable in team fights - but worse at both of these things than Ezreal is, and Ezreal is not game-breakingly powerful in either situation. And in team fights, if you leave him unmolested and he's not hideously fed, he's one of the safest ADCs in the game to ignore. He simply doesn't do enough damage to stop the enemy team from just picking on someone else and winning the teamfight that way. It's not like he's going to threaten your back line while staying safe in a team fight or anything.
He's in a terrible spot, but he's an awesomely fun to play champ with a kit that makes for some really fluid gameplay and really cool plays, so people like playing him and perceive him as having high impact when the fact is that another ADC would have done his job better. He's the LoL equivalent to topdecking a cool but weak magic card and winning off it, then using that as an argument that the card is actually good, because you're disregarding the opportunity cost you had to give up to put that card in your deck at all.
For what it's worth, he has a 48% win rate in normals, a 47% win rate in ranked in general, a 48% win rate at diamond tier, a 47% win rate at plat tier, and a 47% win rate at gold tier. The only tier he has a better than 50% win rate at is challenger, and his challenger tier sample is too small to be statistically significant. This is not just my subjective opinion that he's too weak - the data bears it out, including at skill levels too high to just say, "People are terrible with him."
I just came to the conclusion that top lane is worthless. It doesn't have any real outcome of the game. This game is designed upon whose mid and adc don't screw up more. I honestly can not remember the last time I've seen a top laner carry the game.
What kind of terrible Lucians have you been playing with? I think he's incredible. He has good laning, he's good in skirmishes, he's practically untouchable in teamfights. Plus, he's really fun and feels super smooth to play.
They aren't terrible players because they're doing everything expected of them as ADCs.
The problem lies in Lucian's item choices and when Lucian is strongest. Lucian has potential in the early game but requires super expensive items to carry him into the late game. Many of you guys are saying Triforce is a good buy. Well, you're spending 3628 on it which means by the time you hit that item, you're well into the mid game (even later if you got the Brut before Triforce). Considering the fact that Triforce spreads the stats out, it's not really helpful as say Botrk for dueling or BT for raw damage in mid game fights.
Meanwhile his kit is fairly awkward. His skills scale well with AD which leads people to rush BT but at the same time, his playstyle is akin to Vayne, a duelist, which calls for Botrk. Either way, his mid game is very rough and good players will easily take advantage of that fact by rushing objectives in the mid game and playing it safe in the early game
I just came to the conclusion that top lane is worthless. It doesn't have any real outcome of the game. This game is designed upon whose mid and adc don't screw up more. I honestly can not remember the last time I've seen a top laner carry the game.
I see it a lot in competitive games, a lot less in solo queue. Because yea, it's really easy to snowball off of dragon control in particular.
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we had a nunu who disconnected dominion game so we sorta lost because of that...
But ADC Ahri is fun just need to work on the build so far. Got fed really early on, but fell back late game...
get to play Vlad tomorrow, can't wait
They aren't terrible players because they're doing everything expected of them as ADCs.
The problem lies in Lucian's item choices and when Lucian is strongest. Lucian has potential in the early game but requires super expensive items to carry him into the late game. Many of you guys are saying Triforce is a good buy. Well, you're spending 3628 on it which means by the time you hit that item, you're well into the mid game (even later if you got the Brut before Triforce). Considering the fact that Triforce spreads the stats out, it's not really helpful as say Botrk for dueling or BT for raw damage in mid game fights.
Meanwhile his kit is fairly awkward. His skills scale well with AD which leads people to rush BT but at the same time, his playstyle is akin to Vayne, a duelist, which calls for Botrk. Either way, his mid game is very rough and good players will easily take advantage of that fact by rushing objectives in the mid game and playing it safe in the early game
He doesn't need the full Triforce to wreck Sheen alone will give him plenty of lane dominance meaning you can grab it and then go into Botrk, my preferance on him, or brut or BT or whatever and be reasonably strong in mid game. Hell sheen alone on him makes it very easy to win trades if anyone tries and his mobility makes it even easier for him to force engagements when he wants when paired with a decent support with strong CC, right now Nami looks amazing with him with all the speeds buffs poke/sustain and CC. Leona could also be strong as once he has jumped someone and landed his W with an AA they really are not getting away.
While there is still a good bit of testing left for him I think its way to early to call a champ with all the possible build paths, champ combinations, and playstyle bad weak orneven OP so soon, he isn't like Zac or Jayce who's OPness was glaringly obvious within the first 10 minutes of playing a single game against them.
He doesn't need the full Triforce to wreck Sheen alone will give him plenty of lane dominance meaning you can grab it and then go into Botrk, my preferance on him, or brut or BT or whatever and be reasonably strong in mid game.
The standard for midgame adc is to have one completed core item. For vayne its BoTRK, for Graves its usually BT, etc etc.
That's where the problem lies for Lucian, he needs the core item + something else by mid game to be good.
I just came to the conclusion that top lane is worthless. It doesn't have any real outcome of the game. This game is designed upon whose mid and adc don't screw up more. I honestly can not remember the last time I've seen a top laner carry the game.
Run teleport. If your bot lane wards in bot lane brush you can pull off strong teleport ganks. In essence you are a psuedo jungler every couple of minutes. You can also join in dragon that way.
Plus top tower down going down isn't that big of a deal compared to mid or bot, so you directly impact those lanes for little risk.
srs why i keep angry all the times, even playing with friend i still rage at them
just had a noc top feed lee sin to 24/3/2, then i was 5/0/0, then went 6/5/4 because of that 0/10 feeder and we lose,
i think i played too much tryhard ranked, still every game even aram i will get mad if some1 feed and troll how to clam my self down
I just came back in a game down 10 kills and 5 towers at 25 minutes. I promise you that if I had started raging, we'd have lost.
You talk about raging a LOT in this thread. You need to get control over that. Bad things will happen in just about every game. If you can't control yourself, you should really find another hobby.
The standard for midgame adc is to have one completed core item. For vayne its BoTRK, for Graves its usually BT, etc etc.
That's where the problem lies for Lucian, he needs the core item + something else by mid game to be good.
Except he doesn't. If he has a BoTRK he's fine, if he has Triforce he's fine, if its BT again he's fine. He has a flexability in his builds that you don't see in most adc, other than Ezreal, that enables him to still be good. I am not really sure where you got the idea he needed a core item+something else just from us piinting out he could but something like a sheen to stomp a lane and then build core. It really just comes down to dynamic building based on your situation...
Enemy making plenty of mistakes you can punish? Grab a quick sheen and get fed. Just playing farmville bot lane but others are building HP? Get a BoTRK and go nuts. Gonna have to resort more to spells that AAs due to an early randuins/frozen heart? Bloodthirster it is. He has tons of flexability to do this kind of thing based on the situation presented to him, more than most, and that is a serious credit to his strength.
Don't draw any conclusions on this guy yes. Maybe it will come back you where right and and he is trash, maybe he's secret OP once people figure him out, hell I remember Varus and Aatrox being called pretty crap at release, well aside for the few who didn't know how to handle Aatrox sustain, and yet both of them are ripping it up at high levels of play rather consistantly now. Let's see what Lucian will bring given enough time.
First time I've seen a real comeback in LoL, and it was more the other team just not ending. Don't know exactly how large the comeback was, but we were 4k gold and 14 kills behind when they conceded. I think we were behind by over 25 kills at one point. 58 minute game and the only reason we won was because the other team ignored Nashor and had a Nasus and Pantheon that didn't contribute anything in teamfights.
Meanwhile his kit is fairly awkward. His skills scale well with AD which leads people to rush BT but at the same time, his playstyle is akin to Vayne, a duelist, which calls for Botrk. Either way, his mid game is very rough and good players will easily take advantage of that fact by rushing objectives in the mid game and playing it safe in the early game
He is not a duelist because he has no steroids. He's just another Ezreal. He has no steroids, no utility, an escape and a bastardized version of MF's ultimate. At least Ezreal can get an AS boost. Also I have only seen him beat Ezreals in lane which doesn't say much because Ezreal is weak and his win rates show it. He loses to everyone else.
Don't draw any conclusions on this guy yes. Maybe it will come back you where right and and he is trash, maybe he's secret OP once people figure him out, hell I remember Varus and Aatrox being called pretty crap at release, well aside for the few who didn't know how to handle Aatrox sustain, and yet both of them are ripping it up at high levels of play rather consistantly now. Let's see what Lucian will bring given enough time.
I believe Varus only started seeing play when the other dominant ADCs got nerfed. I'm not quite sure also where you see Aatrox being used, only region using Aatrox is EU and even there, they don't value him as much, NA briefly encountered him and LPL and OGN has not seen Aatrox yet, not even for a ban.
Lucian isn't one of those champions that can be "discovered" (unlike Jayce), he is fairly straightforward, no secret tech or anything. His playability is pretty much dependent on how hard the other ADCs get nerfed or how much he gets buffed
He is not a duelist because he has no steroids. He's just another Ezreal. He has no steroids, no utility, an escape and a bastardized version of MF's ultimate. At least Ezreal can get an AS boost. Also I have only seen him beat Ezreals in lane which doesn't say much because Ezreal is weak and his win rates show it. He loses to everyone else.
Do you not count his double AA to be a steroid of sorts? If he chains all his spells and AA in between each, it certainly does more damage than just AAing. But the fact that his spell rotation does have a bit of CD in between, he definitely can't do his rotation/AA combo for each champion in a teamfight means his forte is more dueling than teamfight.
The problem with Lucian isn't so much good or bad, but when do you pick him? The only thing he has over other adc is mobility due to W, E, and being able to retreat while ulting. But that isn't enough to pick him.
If you want dueling burst with mobility you are better off with Graves due to him having better AOE, more consistent steroids, and his smokescreen.
The only thing I could think of as a place for him is in a disengage comp to counter a hard engage team where you can keep Lucian in the back and dodge any assassin. But even then you are probably better off with a protect comp.
It's not that I think Lucian is bad, he's not, it's just that I am unsure if he has a place where another adc wouldn't be better.
The problem with Lucian isn't so much good or bad, but when do you pick him? The only thing he has over other adc is mobility due to W, E, and being able to retreat while ulting. But that isn't enough to pick him.
If you want dueling burst with mobility you are better off with Graves due to him having better AOE, more consistent steroids, and his smokescreen.
The only thing I could think of as a place for him is in a disengage comp to counter a hard engage team where you can keep Lucian in the back and dodge any assassin. But even then you are probably better off with a protect comp.
It's not that I think Lucian is bad, he's not, it's just that I am unsure if he has a place where another adc wouldn't be better.
As far as I've been able to tell, he's the best ADC against Nasus if that means anything.
Do you not count his double AA to be a steroid of sorts? If he chains all his spells and AA in between each, it certainly does more damage than just AAing. But the fact that his spell rotation does have a bit of CD in between, he definitely can't do his rotation/AA combo for each champion in a teamfight means his forte is more dueling than teamfight.
No because people are constantly trying to proc his passive he ends up getting huge mana problems early game and by the time mid and late game come around autos will do more dps than abilities for adcs.
Master Yi has the same strike twice abilitiy except his requires him to auto attack so he doesn't get a DPS loss. Cait's headshot does the same thing except she is required to right click so she doesn't get a DPS loss as well. Lucian is the opposite.
No because people are constantly trying to proc his passive he ends up getting huge mana problems early game and by the time mid and late game come around autos will do more dps than abilities for adcs.
It's a good thing his passive scales off of his auto attack then. It's a steroid, the mana thing is a valid point but it's still a steroid.
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so happy can'y wait to try him out
Thanks Argentleman;)
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MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
Lucian has poor laning. He's not unsalvageable but more matchups are against him than are for him. He simply can't trade with most of the stronger laning ADCs and is only effective if he's allowed to hit his Q or his double ups in favorable trades, which are entirely in his opponent's control.
He's decent in skirmishes and practically untouchable in team fights - but worse at both of these things than Ezreal is, and Ezreal is not game-breakingly powerful in either situation. And in team fights, if you leave him unmolested and he's not hideously fed, he's one of the safest ADCs in the game to ignore. He simply doesn't do enough damage to stop the enemy team from just picking on someone else and winning the teamfight that way. It's not like he's going to threaten your back line while staying safe in a team fight or anything.
He's in a terrible spot, but he's an awesomely fun to play champ with a kit that makes for some really fluid gameplay and really cool plays, so people like playing him and perceive him as having high impact when the fact is that another ADC would have done his job better. He's the LoL equivalent to topdecking a cool but weak magic card and winning off it, then using that as an argument that the card is actually good, because you're disregarding the opportunity cost you had to give up to put that card in your deck at all.
For what it's worth, he has a 48% win rate in normals, a 47% win rate in ranked in general, a 48% win rate at diamond tier, a 47% win rate at plat tier, and a 47% win rate at gold tier. The only tier he has a better than 50% win rate at is challenger, and his challenger tier sample is too small to be statistically significant. This is not just my subjective opinion that he's too weak - the data bears it out, including at skill levels too high to just say, "People are terrible with him."
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Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
They aren't terrible players because they're doing everything expected of them as ADCs.
The problem lies in Lucian's item choices and when Lucian is strongest. Lucian has potential in the early game but requires super expensive items to carry him into the late game. Many of you guys are saying Triforce is a good buy. Well, you're spending 3628 on it which means by the time you hit that item, you're well into the mid game (even later if you got the Brut before Triforce). Considering the fact that Triforce spreads the stats out, it's not really helpful as say Botrk for dueling or BT for raw damage in mid game fights.
Meanwhile his kit is fairly awkward. His skills scale well with AD which leads people to rush BT but at the same time, his playstyle is akin to Vayne, a duelist, which calls for Botrk. Either way, his mid game is very rough and good players will easily take advantage of that fact by rushing objectives in the mid game and playing it safe in the early game
we had a nunu who disconnected dominion game so we sorta lost because of that...
But ADC Ahri is fun just need to work on the build so far. Got fed really early on, but fell back late game...
get to play Vlad tomorrow, can't wait
Thanks Argentleman;)
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MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
He doesn't need the full Triforce to wreck Sheen alone will give him plenty of lane dominance meaning you can grab it and then go into Botrk, my preferance on him, or brut or BT or whatever and be reasonably strong in mid game. Hell sheen alone on him makes it very easy to win trades if anyone tries and his mobility makes it even easier for him to force engagements when he wants when paired with a decent support with strong CC, right now Nami looks amazing with him with all the speeds buffs poke/sustain and CC. Leona could also be strong as once he has jumped someone and landed his W with an AA they really are not getting away.
While there is still a good bit of testing left for him I think its way to early to call a champ with all the possible build paths, champ combinations, and playstyle bad weak orneven OP so soon, he isn't like Zac or Jayce who's OPness was glaringly obvious within the first 10 minutes of playing a single game against them.
The standard for midgame adc is to have one completed core item. For vayne its BoTRK, for Graves its usually BT, etc etc.
That's where the problem lies for Lucian, he needs the core item + something else by mid game to be good.
Run teleport. If your bot lane wards in bot lane brush you can pull off strong teleport ganks. In essence you are a psuedo jungler every couple of minutes. You can also join in dragon that way.
Plus top tower down going down isn't that big of a deal compared to mid or bot, so you directly impact those lanes for little risk.
just had a noc top feed lee sin to 24/3/2, then i was 5/0/0, then went 6/5/4 because of that 0/10 feeder and we lose,
i think i played too much tryhard ranked, still every game even aram i will get mad if some1 feed and troll how to clam my self down
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
I just came back in a game down 10 kills and 5 towers at 25 minutes. I promise you that if I had started raging, we'd have lost.
You talk about raging a LOT in this thread. You need to get control over that. Bad things will happen in just about every game. If you can't control yourself, you should really find another hobby.
Except he doesn't. If he has a BoTRK he's fine, if he has Triforce he's fine, if its BT again he's fine. He has a flexability in his builds that you don't see in most adc, other than Ezreal, that enables him to still be good. I am not really sure where you got the idea he needed a core item+something else just from us piinting out he could but something like a sheen to stomp a lane and then build core. It really just comes down to dynamic building based on your situation...
Enemy making plenty of mistakes you can punish? Grab a quick sheen and get fed. Just playing farmville bot lane but others are building HP? Get a BoTRK and go nuts. Gonna have to resort more to spells that AAs due to an early randuins/frozen heart? Bloodthirster it is. He has tons of flexability to do this kind of thing based on the situation presented to him, more than most, and that is a serious credit to his strength.
Don't draw any conclusions on this guy yes. Maybe it will come back you where right and and he is trash, maybe he's secret OP once people figure him out, hell I remember Varus and Aatrox being called pretty crap at release, well aside for the few who didn't know how to handle Aatrox sustain, and yet both of them are ripping it up at high levels of play rather consistantly now. Let's see what Lucian will bring given enough time.
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WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
I believe Varus only started seeing play when the other dominant ADCs got nerfed. I'm not quite sure also where you see Aatrox being used, only region using Aatrox is EU and even there, they don't value him as much, NA briefly encountered him and LPL and OGN has not seen Aatrox yet, not even for a ban.
Lucian isn't one of those champions that can be "discovered" (unlike Jayce), he is fairly straightforward, no secret tech or anything. His playability is pretty much dependent on how hard the other ADCs get nerfed or how much he gets buffed
Do you not count his double AA to be a steroid of sorts? If he chains all his spells and AA in between each, it certainly does more damage than just AAing. But the fact that his spell rotation does have a bit of CD in between, he definitely can't do his rotation/AA combo for each champion in a teamfight means his forte is more dueling than teamfight.
If you want dueling burst with mobility you are better off with Graves due to him having better AOE, more consistent steroids, and his smokescreen.
The only thing I could think of as a place for him is in a disengage comp to counter a hard engage team where you can keep Lucian in the back and dodge any assassin. But even then you are probably better off with a protect comp.
It's not that I think Lucian is bad, he's not, it's just that I am unsure if he has a place where another adc wouldn't be better.
As far as I've been able to tell, he's the best ADC against Nasus if that means anything.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
No because people are constantly trying to proc his passive he ends up getting huge mana problems early game and by the time mid and late game come around autos will do more dps than abilities for adcs.
Master Yi has the same strike twice abilitiy except his requires him to auto attack so he doesn't get a DPS loss. Cait's headshot does the same thing except she is required to right click so she doesn't get a DPS loss as well. Lucian is the opposite.
That's Trist and Vayne. They have knockbacks, escapes and get BOTRK.
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UBR FaerieStalker UBR
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Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
When Lucian uses an ability, his next attack becomes a double-shot.
Because he has to spam his abilities every adc will out DPS him. Arguing against this is pointless.
So in the end he's ranged caster, not an adc.
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
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Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)