Yeah. He was even better. 80% AS Steroid from Spray and Pray and 100% AS Steroid from Ambush, same true damage dot and a 5 second slow. And to top it off Last Whisper gave 40% AS instead of AD instead of 40 AD. Twitch's dueling power was obscene.
Cait and MF were never really nerfed. Caits base AS was lowered but her AS growth per level was increased to 4% which is the highest in the game.
MF's W just had 2 damage taken of at early ranks but increased stack damage of it at levels 4 and 5. There's no real difference.
So, two things.
One - base AS is the most important base stat for an ADC - it determines how effective % AS will be. % AS is % more attacks per second. Base AS is the answer to the question, "more attacks per second than what?"
It works out to a noticeable but not enormous nerf for her. Her dps is lower at all points in the game as a result.
Then, don't forget that they also stripped out Cait's ability to stack her passive on turrets - that was a much larger nerf than it sounds like. Her lane dominance came from both the fact that she outranges you with multiple zoning tools and from the fact that once she does get you pushed into your tower, she can severely punish you for tower last hitting via her passive + Q + ult, and if you both back, she can almost always come back to lane with a charged passive. It doesn't sound like a huge change, but this was one of the biggest reasons why if an ADC fell behind in lane vs Caitlyn, they couldn't really come back if the Cait knew what she was doing. She's still strong in lane but she scales less well now and can't completely shut down an opponent the way she used to be able to.
As for MF, it wasn't a devastating nerf, but it was coupled with a BC nerf for a double whammy that took her from god tier to really good tier. She's still very strong (she's my main, actually!), just not quite as strong as she was early in the season.
MF's ult ratio was nerfed from .35 to .25, thats pretty significant
Also,
New Trinity force is sick, 200% AD proc is insane
Tried it on Hecarim, seemed good, though I died a lot that game (it was a win - I just got focused in fights a lot, which is a win for my team considering I had built multiple tanky items). Sivir should use it well, as should Lucian. And I think many bruisers will want to switch off of BoRK for it.
Yea, the main reason twitch became the hugely lane-fight dominant ADC that he was was the draven passive nerf. Corki hasn't had nerfs recently but he hasn't been strong recently either.
Corki and Graves really were the two who led off the current era of ADC nerfage - dates back all the way to the end of last season. But yeah haven't seen a lot of them this season, because the nerfs were so severe. Corki's most recent change was actually a buff.
Hey you're in my league
We totally gotta duo sometime
Edit: And goodbye Gold V. Somehow my mmr has hit the stratosphere. I'm getting about 30 LP per win flat, and the last three games have all had plats in them (when you're trying to do your gold V -> gold IV series this is really obnoxious). I don't mind, but I don't really understand how it took 6-8 months to break silver 1, but now gold is just flying by.
Today was playing GP top, then I was 1v1 Jayce, enemy team 3 man comes to top and ganked me, has this happend to any1 yet? suddenly 4 man comes to a single line all gank at once, waste all ultimate and summoner spell just to kill 1 champ wow...
1st--Triforce is absolutely amazing on him especially after the remake on Phage. With Triforce+his W I was getting 501 move speed and with BoTRK active his kiting just gets insane, I would say one of the best if not the best in the game even without CC. His burst potential with the Sheen part+his passive is rather nuts. I still think BoTRK is the better rush, for obvious reasons, but getting a Sheen and then rushing BoTRK can give you some pretty strong lane dominance. A sheen with his passive is effectively 2 attacks so E+AA into range, followed by Q+AA and W+AA is basically 6 attacks in 2-3 seconds without any attack speed on top of the damage from your Q and W. Really strong trading in lane.
2nd--And I can't believe I'm going to say this, and I certainly wouldn't get it until after Triforce+BoTRK is complete on him, but Lucian REALLY loves Statikk Shiv. Compared to so many other ADCs I've seen build it and only get 1-2 procs from it during a team fight I've seen 3-6 procs in a single team fight just because of how mobile Lucian is coupled with it getting multiple stacks from his passive, it still counts as an AA that will add additional charges.
3rd--To the person who asked if Lucian's 2nd attack from his passive can crit, yes I confirmed it earlier it can crit just the same as his regular AAs. Essentially it's treated as any other auto-attack it's just weaker. I actually had a fun moment in my last game where I came out of no where on a Heimerdinger, I had by this point Triforce+BoTRK+Statikk Shiv+IE, and everything crit, my regular AA my passive AA my Statikk Shiv proc, everything and it just insta-gibbed him, I literally started my Q while the AAs where in the air and he died before it even fired crazy lucky but was a pretty awesome moment.
4th--His ult remains very...odd I haven't really gotten down how best to use it while fighting, or frankling how best to aim it. It feels really weird but honestly I don't think you should aim it at the target you are trying to hit. Instead just aim it in a straight line, parallel to the lane, and just position yourself in line to hit him. Any angle on it seems to make it so easy for it to be dodged.
1st--Triforce is absolutely amazing on him especially after the remake on Phage. With Triforce+his W I was getting 501 move speed and with BoTRK active his kiting just gets insane, I would say one of the best if not the best in the game even without CC. His burst potential with the Sheen part+his passive is rather nuts. I still think BoTRK is the better rush, for obvious reasons, but getting a Sheen and then rushing BoTRK can give you some pretty strong lane dominance. A sheen with his passive is effectively 2 attacks so E+AA into range, followed by Q+AA and W+AA is basically 6 attacks in 2-3 seconds without any attack speed on top of the damage from your Q and W. Really strong trading in lane.
2nd--And I can't believe I'm going to say this, and I certainly wouldn't get it until after Triforce+BoTRK is complete on him, but Lucian REALLY loves Statikk Shiv. Compared to so many other ADCs I've seen build it and only get 1-2 procs from it during a team fight I've seen 3-6 procs in a single team fight just because of how mobile Lucian is coupled with it getting multiple stacks from his passive, it still counts as an AA that will add additional charges.
3rd--To the person who asked if Lucian's 2nd attack from his passive can crit, yes I confirmed it earlier it can crit just the same as his regular AAs. Essentially it's treated as any other auto-attack it's just weaker. I actually had a fun moment in my last game where I came out of no where on a Heimerdinger, I had by this point Triforce+BoTRK+Statikk Shiv+IE, and everything crit, my regular AA my passive AA my Statikk Shiv proc, everything and it just insta-gibbed him, I literally started my Q while the AAs where in the air and he died before it even fired crazy lucky but was a pretty awesome moment.
4th--His ult remains very...odd I haven't really gotten down how best to use it while fighting, or frankling how best to aim it. It feels really weird but honestly I don't think you should aim it at the target you are trying to hit. Instead just aim it in a straight line, parallel to the lane, and just position yourself in line to hit him. Any angle on it seems to make it so easy for it to be dodged.
I haven't really been liking Botrk on him, BT rush just feels better if you need a lifesteal item. Lucian scales really well with ad, and BT + Tri makes him a beast. I'm still a fan of rushing an early Brutalizer on him, though it does kinda set him back if you want a BT or Botrk before Tri.
I don't really like Shiv if you've already got Tri. After Botrk/BT + Tri, you should really be going for LW, and building a Shiv after that just seems poor, you should be looking for a defensive item or more damage(IE). I dunno, just seems awkward.
Played a few more games with Brut + Tri Lucian, still undefeated. I'm convinced that Lucian is more powerful than he appears, even if I screw up horribly I still end up carrying like a boss.
So Lucian working out well then? because i might be getting him. I havent gotten a new realesed champ in a while.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sel'rahc, Beneficial Scholar 1WUR
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Haste RU Draw 2 Cards, this creature deals 2 damage to each other creature you control. RW Choose Two - Target Creature gains First Strike, Lifelink, or Haste until end of turn. UW Choose One - Return Target Creature to the top of it's Owner's deck, or Creatures your Opponent controls can't attack this turn. This creature doesn't untap during your next untap step.
"The level of supremacy the enemy has gained is negligble. I have gained advantage though means of intellect."
P/T: 3:3
Just got told by my jungler that I play better support than most of the supports he plays with in diamond 2. I think that it was more we were just winning really hard but still felt really nice to get a compliment as support
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Proving god exists isn't hard. Proving god is God is the tricky part" - Roommate
I wouldn't put your IP into Lucian. He is very weak, even for an ADC
I thought Lucian was ADC. If he's not, what is he good at?
Do you think we'll be getting a new Champ before the end of the year? I know this year has been slow in regards to Riot releasing new champs, especially compared to the quantity of new champion releases they've had in previous years.
How many champs has Riot released this year? To my memory, it's been been Zac and Aatrox...and maybe Lissandra?
Lastly, if you had a choice, would you rather Riot work on releasing a new Champ? Or refining/updating/balancing existing champion?
What champions do you think are MOST in need of an update/rework? (either visually or kit-wise)
I personally would like to see them work on Warwick, since it seems he's rarely ever used and not that efficient when he is.
I havent seen him in action yet so I cant say anything. Though i do like his kit a lot. Though for adcs i am still a big fan of draven.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sel'rahc, Beneficial Scholar 1WUR
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Haste RU Draw 2 Cards, this creature deals 2 damage to each other creature you control. RW Choose Two - Target Creature gains First Strike, Lifelink, or Haste until end of turn. UW Choose One - Return Target Creature to the top of it's Owner's deck, or Creatures your Opponent controls can't attack this turn. This creature doesn't untap during your next untap step.
"The level of supremacy the enemy has gained is negligble. I have gained advantage though means of intellect."
P/T: 3:3
Worded that wrong maybe, correction: He is an ADC, a poor one at that. He can't really do anything else. Kind of like Quinn/Valor
What kind of terrible Lucians have you been playing with? I think he's incredible. He has good laning, he's good in skirmishes, he's practically untouchable in teamfights. Plus, he's really fun and feels super smooth to play.
More on Lucian, Triforce is a must on him, and his ult isn't as useless as people say once you get some armor pen(I got some serious damage from that thing with LW and a Brut). I have yet to find anyone that counters him in lane, every matchup seems good, toughest laning phase I had was against a Lucian/Annie lane(support Annie is mean when you want to brawl, still won that match though). People are calling for a Lucian buff, and honestly, he should probably be nerfed.
Also, i'm still preaching the first item Brut on Lucian, Brut into Tri is so good.
What kind of terrible Lucians have you been playing with? I think he's incredible. He has good laning, he's good in skirmishes, he's practically untouchable in teamfights. Plus, he's really fun and feels super smooth to play.
More on Lucian, Triforce is a must on him, and his ult isn't as useless as people say once you get some armor pen(I got some serious damage from that thing with LW and a Brut). I have yet to find anyone that counters him in lane, every matchup seems good, toughest laning phase I had was against a Lucian/Annie lane(support Annie is mean when you want to brawl, still won that match though). People are calling for a Lucian buff, and honestly, he should probably be nerfed.
Also, i'm still preaching the first item Brut on Lucian, Brut into Tri is so good.
Think I may try out Brut on him next time I get a chance, wont be till tomorrow, but I habe toyed with the idea of what kind of damage you could get with a cdr type adc build designed to abuse his passive. Brut/cdr boots/zephyr perhaps although that may be way to late to really matter when you would need it a lot sooner. This guy really has a lot more potential testing options than most of riots usual releases. You can buildnto abuse the hell out of his passive, my preferance, or you can build to make his ult a terror or try to find a balance between the two.
So many possiblities its gonna be nice to have a bit of a break from ranked for a while to experiment with this guy for a while.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, two things.
One - base AS is the most important base stat for an ADC - it determines how effective % AS will be. % AS is % more attacks per second. Base AS is the answer to the question, "more attacks per second than what?"
It works out to a noticeable but not enormous nerf for her. Her dps is lower at all points in the game as a result.
Then, don't forget that they also stripped out Cait's ability to stack her passive on turrets - that was a much larger nerf than it sounds like. Her lane dominance came from both the fact that she outranges you with multiple zoning tools and from the fact that once she does get you pushed into your tower, she can severely punish you for tower last hitting via her passive + Q + ult, and if you both back, she can almost always come back to lane with a charged passive. It doesn't sound like a huge change, but this was one of the biggest reasons why if an ADC fell behind in lane vs Caitlyn, they couldn't really come back if the Cait knew what she was doing. She's still strong in lane but she scales less well now and can't completely shut down an opponent the way she used to be able to.
As for MF, it wasn't a devastating nerf, but it was coupled with a BC nerf for a double whammy that took her from god tier to really good tier. She's still very strong (she's my main, actually!), just not quite as strong as she was early in the season.
Tried it on Hecarim, seemed good, though I died a lot that game (it was a win - I just got focused in fights a lot, which is a win for my team considering I had built multiple tanky items). Sivir should use it well, as should Lucian. And I think many bruisers will want to switch off of BoRK for it.
Corki and Graves really were the two who led off the current era of ADC nerfage - dates back all the way to the end of last season. But yeah haven't seen a lot of them this season, because the nerfs were so severe. Corki's most recent change was actually a buff.
Hey you're in my league
We totally gotta duo sometime
Edit: And goodbye Gold V. Somehow my mmr has hit the stratosphere. I'm getting about 30 LP per win flat, and the last three games have all had plats in them (when you're trying to do your gold V -> gold IV series this is really obnoxious). I don't mind, but I don't really understand how it took 6-8 months to break silver 1, but now gold is just flying by.
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
1st--Triforce is absolutely amazing on him especially after the remake on Phage. With Triforce+his W I was getting 501 move speed and with BoTRK active his kiting just gets insane, I would say one of the best if not the best in the game even without CC. His burst potential with the Sheen part+his passive is rather nuts. I still think BoTRK is the better rush, for obvious reasons, but getting a Sheen and then rushing BoTRK can give you some pretty strong lane dominance. A sheen with his passive is effectively 2 attacks so E+AA into range, followed by Q+AA and W+AA is basically 6 attacks in 2-3 seconds without any attack speed on top of the damage from your Q and W. Really strong trading in lane.
2nd--And I can't believe I'm going to say this, and I certainly wouldn't get it until after Triforce+BoTRK is complete on him, but Lucian REALLY loves Statikk Shiv. Compared to so many other ADCs I've seen build it and only get 1-2 procs from it during a team fight I've seen 3-6 procs in a single team fight just because of how mobile Lucian is coupled with it getting multiple stacks from his passive, it still counts as an AA that will add additional charges.
3rd--To the person who asked if Lucian's 2nd attack from his passive can crit, yes I confirmed it earlier it can crit just the same as his regular AAs. Essentially it's treated as any other auto-attack it's just weaker. I actually had a fun moment in my last game where I came out of no where on a Heimerdinger, I had by this point Triforce+BoTRK+Statikk Shiv+IE, and everything crit, my regular AA my passive AA my Statikk Shiv proc, everything and it just insta-gibbed him, I literally started my Q while the AAs where in the air and he died before it even fired crazy lucky but was a pretty awesome moment.
4th--His ult remains very...odd I haven't really gotten down how best to use it while fighting, or frankling how best to aim it. It feels really weird but honestly I don't think you should aim it at the target you are trying to hit. Instead just aim it in a straight line, parallel to the lane, and just position yourself in line to hit him. Any angle on it seems to make it so easy for it to be dodged.
Doran
Greaves
Botkr
IE
LW
PD
I think IE is 3rd or 4th item, if enemy no armour stack and ur roaming then IE.
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
You're Diamond friend is rather OP if he is building champions as items
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
I haven't really been liking Botrk on him, BT rush just feels better if you need a lifesteal item. Lucian scales really well with ad, and BT + Tri makes him a beast. I'm still a fan of rushing an early Brutalizer on him, though it does kinda set him back if you want a BT or Botrk before Tri.
I don't really like Shiv if you've already got Tri. After Botrk/BT + Tri, you should really be going for LW, and building a Shiv after that just seems poor, you should be looking for a defensive item or more damage(IE). I dunno, just seems awkward.
Played a few more games with Brut + Tri Lucian, still undefeated. I'm convinced that Lucian is more powerful than he appears, even if I screw up horribly I still end up carrying like a boss.
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Haste
RU Draw 2 Cards, this creature deals 2 damage to each other creature you control.
RW Choose Two - Target Creature gains First Strike, Lifelink, or Haste until end of turn.
UW Choose One - Return Target Creature to the top of it's Owner's deck, or Creatures your Opponent controls can't attack this turn. This creature doesn't untap during your next untap step.
"The level of supremacy the enemy has gained is negligble. I have gained advantage though means of intellect."
P/T: 3:3
I wouldn't put your IP into Lucian. He is very weak, even for an ADC
I thought Lucian was ADC. If he's not, what is he good at?
Do you think we'll be getting a new Champ before the end of the year? I know this year has been slow in regards to Riot releasing new champs, especially compared to the quantity of new champion releases they've had in previous years.
How many champs has Riot released this year? To my memory, it's been been Zac and Aatrox...and maybe Lissandra?
Lastly, if you had a choice, would you rather Riot work on releasing a new Champ? Or refining/updating/balancing existing champion?
What champions do you think are MOST in need of an update/rework? (either visually or kit-wise)
I personally would like to see them work on Warwick, since it seems he's rarely ever used and not that efficient when he is.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=409478
Worded that wrong maybe, correction: He is an ADC, a poor one at that. He can't really do anything else. Kind of like Quinn/Valor
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Haste
RU Draw 2 Cards, this creature deals 2 damage to each other creature you control.
RW Choose Two - Target Creature gains First Strike, Lifelink, or Haste until end of turn.
UW Choose One - Return Target Creature to the top of it's Owner's deck, or Creatures your Opponent controls can't attack this turn. This creature doesn't untap during your next untap step.
"The level of supremacy the enemy has gained is negligble. I have gained advantage though means of intellect."
P/T: 3:3
She is ok against right click champions. I'd take Teemo over Quinn any day of the week
What kind of terrible Lucians have you been playing with? I think he's incredible. He has good laning, he's good in skirmishes, he's practically untouchable in teamfights. Plus, he's really fun and feels super smooth to play.
More on Lucian, Triforce is a must on him, and his ult isn't as useless as people say once you get some armor pen(I got some serious damage from that thing with LW and a Brut). I have yet to find anyone that counters him in lane, every matchup seems good, toughest laning phase I had was against a Lucian/Annie lane(support Annie is mean when you want to brawl, still won that match though). People are calling for a Lucian buff, and honestly, he should probably be nerfed.
Also, i'm still preaching the first item Brut on Lucian, Brut into Tri is so good.
Think I may try out Brut on him next time I get a chance, wont be till tomorrow, but I habe toyed with the idea of what kind of damage you could get with a cdr type adc build designed to abuse his passive. Brut/cdr boots/zephyr perhaps although that may be way to late to really matter when you would need it a lot sooner. This guy really has a lot more potential testing options than most of riots usual releases. You can buildnto abuse the hell out of his passive, my preferance, or you can build to make his ult a terror or try to find a balance between the two.
So many possiblities its gonna be nice to have a bit of a break from ranked for a while to experiment with this guy for a while.