FTR I've been logging into this site every day since Faraday told me that a replacement *might* be needed.
Anyway,
vote: nachomamma
If you're town, can you please do that really passionate thing you sometimes do so that I don't have to wait until day three to get a read on you? You'll read me as town, cuz hi!, and if I can read you early we can rip this game apart. (This goes for Llamarble too, but instead of passionate, you need to be adorable.)
I'll probably end up drunkposting a ****ton in this game, so there will probably be a lot of passion everywhere in this game.
This is awesome I actually get to cast the first manly vote.
Vote: Nachomama
I'd also honestly be slightly game for doing Iso for holding onto the DYH meaningless vote when he's actually trying to look like he's hunting Vi. That said, i actually have reasonable faith in Tammy to read Nacho, and I have faith that, as usual, they'll both town read me, so I can just make an insta town block this way.
Then we can all vote Iso.
Win/Win.
I'm a nice guy like that.
Orrr me and Tammy can make a townblock and you can totally not be invited!
I'm more upset that she's considering an easy awesome Town bloc and I'm not in it.
Actually I'm acting out on fermented frustration over how she voted me instead of scum in our last game together because god-knows-why since I was clearly Town and the scum in question was CES not being clearly Town (moving "clearly" two words forward could be debated).
Do you really think you're that easy for me to read early? Even if stars align?
Also, I'm pretty sure I voted you for not reading a wall I wrote as a joke and so it was there as a place holder while I waffled like hell over which one of you was scum.
But, if you're town, you could town tell and we could all be awesome!
I can read Vi! She did call me the master of Vi meta last game.
Why is Vi being scummy? Because he accused you of reaching even though your meta says that you reach a lot early game?
Quick question; do you think "reaching" is a valid tell to even bother bringing up during RVS?
Because if no - why are you asking me this?
And if yes - can you explain that further and how it works?
I don't think it's a valid tell, but it's a perfectly valid response. What is Vi doing in his case on you if it's not called reaching?
Her calling you out for reaching wasn't a reach in and of itself; it was a valid observation, even thought it doesn't have much to do with your alignment based on your style of play.
He's voting you for the offer to work together, and I rather liked that vote.
From you in particular, why?
Cyan seems the type of person who gets paranoid when people are trying to buddy up to him, while I don't think he would be afraid to buddy up to you if he was scum. So, the fact that his response is to immediately leash out at a potential ally tells me he doesn't give a **** about making allies.
Cyan seems the type of person who gets paranoid when people are trying to buddy up to him, while I don't think he would be afraid to buddy up to you if he was scum. So, the fact that his response is to immediately leash out at a potential ally tells me he doesn't give a **** about making allies.
I can buy the last part as in character, though to be honest the idea that I can be scum is absurd so I'm a little lost on the part before.
And the rest of Cyan's play?
I can see why he wouldn't be reading you as town yet.
The rest of Cyan's play is decent, although attacking KoL for her bussing comment is dumb when he didn't do that last game.
I'm sure there's a reason for that, and I'm sure it doesn't hold water. You can save everyone some time and put your vote elsewhere.
He's voting you for the offer to work together, and I rather liked that vote.
Hey Mister Meta Master, I know why you liked the vote on him (I even knew it before you explained it to Vi...I'm that good.) but what do you think of Vi?
Initial townread, but not TOWN BEYOND TOWN yet.
HEY I'm experimenting with quote stripes! Do they look good on me Nacho? I think they make me look fat
Not as good as they look on me. Quotestripes are better for people with more of a cold, calculated pew pew pew style as opposed to your ranty/lecturey style.
It's enough for me because I don't think questioning him on it is going to bring anything interesting. I can't ask him why because I know why, and I don't think a speech on why reachouts in our site meta are normally townier than not will help things much.
The reaction that he had seemed to fit the town personality of the curmudgeon that I got from last game. That doesn't mean I've written him off; it means that he made a townish-looking move early and hasn't done anything else too alignment indicative. Are you reading him as scummy?
Given your comments about your pride on playing the same way as either alignment I'm not swayed by ~meta~ (besides that, I can't think of a game where we were the same alignment, so all the significant meta I have on you is "where's the mute button").
1. I didn't bring up my meta, you and/or Nacho did.
2. Also, you want to "mute" me...so your plan is to call me out immediately...?
3. Isn't that almost like your Iso point, except changing the names of the players involved?
2. You usually duck under the radar because he doesn't pay attention to you, so it makes a bit of sense for him to interact with you a bit more than he usually would, doesn't it?
You clearly don't think reaching is a valid tell, so I was wondering what you thought Vi was doing.
Applying a scumtell without caring about the current gamestate and how it affects said tell.
I sort of thought I said that when I called her out for doing so.
You probably did. I don't know why this is a big deal, considering the current gamestate is something that usually causes people to push hard on little things. Got anything thing else?
3. Isn't that almost like your Iso point, except changing the names of the players involved?
To an extent, though the context is rather different. You tried to mislynch Iso several times in the previous game. Wouldn't that cause any hesitation at all on page 1?
The reaction that he had seemed to fit the town personality of the curmudgeon that I got from last game. That doesn't mean I've written him off; it means that he made a townish-looking move early and hasn't done anything else too alignment indicative. Are you reading him as scummy?
I don't know. I find it odd that he made that vote based on the post made during confirmations and then didn't comment on anything else until Vi commented on the vote. Even if he thought the posts between Thor, kami and I were uninspiring, Vi had made posts as well, but there was nothing. It also really doesn't fit with his whole "I want Vi to be the focus of the day" schtick.
I looked back at the beginning of the last game and he did do an early "iso is scum" thing but he wasn't so stodgy and was a bit more interactive overall.
Mostly I'm trying to get a feel for you though.
I'm guessing him interacting more has something to do with him going a bit easier on the MSers, which is something he talked about somewhere in last game.
2. You usually duck under the radar because he doesn't pay attention to you, so it makes a bit of sense for him to interact with you a bit more than he usually would, doesn't it?
Maybe - are you answering for her now?
Because...whut?
You probably did. I don't know why this is a big deal, considering the current gamestate is something that usually causes people to push hard on little things. Got anything thing else?
If I did I would have said it.
Do YOU have anything else, because I'm not sure where you're going with this.
Yes, the gamestate is one wherein people push hard on little things.
Vi decided it was bad that I was pushing hard on little things.
I decided it was bad that she was using a gamestate situation as a scumtell.
So...whassup Nacho? You're supposed to advance the line of questioning or draw a conclusion, not keep going in circles.
Where I'm going with this is that your exchange seems horribly, horribly boring and not very conclusive.
What about it? Unless Vi wishes to endorse that stance I see little value in debating the alignment conclusion I would draw from it.
Where are you going with this?
I was hoping I was able to get you to realize that "He always ignores me = now this game he is interacting with me" is actually a good thing.
Where I'm going with this is that your exchange seems horribly, horribly boring and not very conclusive.
Mah bad, was I supposed to draw a conclusion to my question before hearing the answers to them?
That doesn't actually make any sense at all.
Justify this garble-speak please.
No, I was seeing if you had an interesting reason for your vote. You didn't.
Conclusiveness and interesting are pretty much the same thing in my mind. Interesting things are things that are good points, conclusive things are things that are smoking guns and very sheepable. What I learned is that neither side of this argument seems very sheepable.
Conclusiveness and interesting are pretty much the same thing in my mind. Interesting things are things that are good points, conclusive things are things that are smoking guns and very sheepable. What I learned is that neither side of this argument seems very sheepable.
You have an interesting way of defining conclusive.
I'm not sure I'm excited by the dancing.
I'm going to call you scummy now.
What definition of conclusive did you think I was operating under?
Most of my questions are trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about. Right now, I'm apparently scummy for bringing in the definition of sheepable into my definition of conclusive because you don't think that my interaction with you would have a significant chance of changing my opinion?
Tammy has been town since her opening; her play versus me as scum is not confrontational, and usually ends up as something that is as limited in her interactions with me as possible while still trying to look town and scumhunt. I have trouble imagining her as scum opening up so aggressively, especially when she doesn't have the same confidence in her scumgame as she does in her towngame. I liked her reachout to KoL because it felt like she was building up cred in being able to read me since her reads on me are usually more based on gut/tone than more tangible/easy to explain things. I also liked how her questioning of cyan/vote on cyouni played out; if she were scum, it looked like she was posturing to vote cyan in order to chainsaw Vi, but the end result ended up being a vote on an offshoot (and probably the best vote in the thread, so that's a bonus!).
Vierni's initial reach out to Cyan was pretty town to me; I understood the original reach out as a bit of an attempt to get him engaged early, but the explanation in #123 make more sense and is more Vi-ish. The target makes even less sense as scum, though; a reachout to me or Tammy is something that would more obviously be taken well, while a reachout to Cyan could ping him weird since he's not familiar with them in his site meta and seems curmudgeon-y, and could also be construed as trying to avoid reaching out to the more obvious targets. I also liked the question to me at the end of #74, which makes sense based on HunterxHunter (Vi reaches out to scum, scum ignores reach out, pretty much caught scum), like the extra :effort: early. I didn't really like the response to Goofball in #98 because I expected a similar effort to sort like Vi's currently attempting to sort Thor, but it isn't really alignment indicative.
I can't see Cyan rejecting a reach-out from Vi as scum. I don't think he would be afraid of the implications, and I don't think he would mind taking Vi on as a potential ally as scum; it makes a lot more sense than "tunnel potential ally when they say 'let's work together'", in any case. The conviction in his tunnel on Vi seems very real to me (mostly because it seems strange for him to choose to tunnel on the player on the MS side who probably performed the strongest last game as town), but scumvenience makes that conviction a little more sketchy than it would be otherwise. I do like how he guards his image in #97 ("you're trying to discredit my effort in getting Vierni lynched so I don't have to be obvtown after she flips scum" in particular strikes me as something scum is very unlikely to say), and I liked how he thought Vi was trying to keep him pacified because he was disgruntled.
Kami's "trust my reads on Thor and Iso this time!" felt genuine to me, as did the DEAL exchange with Tammy. I feel like her scum play is similar to Thor's in the sense that she's going to thrive the most because no one is very familiar with her, so the fact she was reaching out early was a good sign.
Thor's opening was oddly reminiscent of his opening last game (buddying me and throwing suspicion on Iso), which sort of made me lean town on it, since I think as scum he's try to play noticeably different from last game so that people with that one-game meta experience would townread him. Push on KoL for not justifying the townread on him thoroughly enough sucks because KoL usually doesn't justify things a lot, his push on Vi sucks because he's attacking him for applying a reaching tell too early in a gamestate where most tells are applied too early, and I have no idea what he's doing with his push on me.
Then, there's a bunch of people who haven't posted much. Cyouni seems to be playing a very similar "explain" game to last time, but I never meta'ed him so I have no idea whether this is something he also does as scum (although I can't imagine him not doing it as scum).
I don't feel like making 150 posts' worth of quotewalls, so:
Unvote, Vote Vierni
Scumteam is Vi, Thor, and Cyan.
The intensity at which Thor is pushing Vi makes me hesitate on the Thor slot, but if that's the case, I'd likely assign a nonentity to it (llama, Voxx). No one else is really pinging me so far.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Most of my questions are trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about. Right now, I'm apparently scummy for bringing in the definition of sheepable into my definition of conclusive because you don't think that my interaction with you would have a significant chance of changing my opinion?
Oh, snap, I called that a scumtell, how dastardly of me!
Nervous much?
Because, y'know, I didn't.
Thor's opening was oddly reminiscent of his opening last game (buddying me and throwing suspicion on Iso), which sort of made me lean town on it, since I think as scum he's try to play noticeably different from last game so that people with that one-game meta experience would townread him.
What, in any of your experiences or information about me would make you think this?
Not ignoring you and attempting to parley with you are two rather different things. :smug:
I also call Smurfhooey on this as well - you literally just said that I had seemed more reasonable or talkative post game and used that to justify your decision to not ignore me.
If your goal was *not* to have reasonable talk - then mission accomplished, but why did you then bring up this point at all and how does it matter in your decision not to ignore me?
If you did want reasonable talk, than my initial question to you about why would you attack me as the opener then holds firm, and you are dodging answering it, why?
I am actually feeling really sold on you as scum now due to this answer.
The intensity at which Thor is pushing Vi makes me hesitate on the Thor slot
Why not Cyan's attack on Vi?
Or Vi's attack on Cyan?
Or even Vi's attack on me?
Am I the only one of all of those that looks remotely legit?
And what even makes us scum as a team?
Most of my questions are trying to figure out what the hell you're talking about. Right now, I'm apparently scummy for bringing in the definition of sheepable into my definition of conclusive because you don't think that my interaction with you would have a significant chance of changing my opinion?
Oh, snap, I called that a scumtell, how dastardly of me!
Nervous much?
Because, y'know, I didn't.
Thor's opening was oddly reminiscent of his opening last game (buddying me and throwing suspicion on Iso), which sort of made me lean town on it, since I think as scum he's try to play noticeably different from last game so that people with that one-game meta experience would townread him.
What, in any of your experiences or information about me would make you think this?
None of it. It seems like a natural impulse to me.
The intensity at which Thor is pushing Vi makes me hesitate on the Thor slot
1. Why not Cyan's attack on Vi?
2. Or Vi's attack on Cyan?
3. Or even Vi's attack on me?
4. Am I the only one of all of those that looks remotely legit?
5. And what even makes us scum as a team?
1. Looks like busing.
2. Looks like busing.
3. I must've skimmed over this. Post(s) you are referencing?
4. Yeah, pretty much. And I'm doubtful about that because I feel like this is exactly how you approached me at the start of the first game.
5. things
5(seriousanswer). Vian look like they're busing each other (because, let's face it, that worked splendidly for DYH last game), and you all read scum to me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
None of it. It seems like a natural impulse to me.
How much of the stuff in your cases on other players was sort of presented like psuedo-meta while actually just being you projecting your playstyle onto them?
Expecting them to do their job doesn't make sense because they usually don't do their job.
Yes.
Which would matter if I had claimed her not presenting that info was scummy of her and tried to sell other people that it was weird.
However, you called me out for *pushing* on her to do so.
Yes, I understand it's not something she normally does.
Does that *really* mean that, in your opinion, it is weird of us to ask her for it anyway?
Because...that seems incredibly...dumb.
1. Looks like busing.
2. Looks like busing.
3. I must've skimmed over this. Post(s) you are referencing?
4. Yeah, pretty much. And I'm doubtful about that because I feel like this is exactly how you approached me at the start of the first game.
5. things
5(seriousanswer). Vian look like they're busing each other (because, let's face it, that worked splendidly for DYH last game), and you all read scum to me.
3. Her Iso isn't that big, and your iso feature sucks. You can go find it yourself.
4. Are you saying that I'm approaching her like I approached oyu, or that I'm approaching you like I approached you. And also, why shouldn't I? I do play my scum game to resemble my town game after all - I'd be kind of a ponce if I didn't.
5. Why do they and I read scum outside of all of our obvious bussing? Or is it just the bussing making us scum...which would seem a little Catch-22.
3. nah
4. I'm saying you approached her like you approached me [in game 1]. And seeing as that's the case, it was how I caught you [in game 1] so I'm going to use it as proof you're scum [in this game].
5. Well I've explained my scumThor read above; as for the rest, Vi didn't answer my question early on, her response to Cyan's vote was poor, and I'm completely uncompelled by what I've seen from her play so far. Additionally, Cyan's a crafty scum; he could probably sense a Vi wagon was going to develop and jumped on before it seemed like there was blood in the water to avert suspicion (it's what I would do), and something about him feels off so far in this game. I've been duped by scumCyan before (Redux 2, though the town ultimately won that when ZDS, AE, and I lynched Cyan at endgame) and I'm not eager to have that performance repeat itself [in regards to my read on Cyan].
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
None of it. It seems like a natural impulse to me.
How much of the stuff in your cases on other players was sort of presented like psuedo-meta while actually just being you projecting your playstyle onto them?
Probably the same ratio as it is normally. Normally when an action feels town to me, it feels town because it strikes me as something I couldn't see scum doing easily/smoothly.
Expecting them to do their job doesn't make sense because they usually don't do their job.
Yes.
Which would matter if I had claimed her not presenting that info was scummy of her and tried to sell other people that it was weird.
However, you called me out for *pushing* on her to do so.
Yes, I understand it's not something she normally does.
Does that *really* mean that, in your opinion, it is weird of us to ask her for it anyway?
Because...that seems incredibly...dumb.
You're calling her out for a read on you that you don't understand, and push on her to explain it when you know she most likely won't. It's a useless line of questioning that won't get you anywhere.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Expecting them to do their job doesn't make sense because they usually don't do their job.
Yes.
Which would matter if I had claimed her not presenting that info was scummy of her and tried to sell other people that it was weird.
However, you called me out for *pushing* on her to do so.
Yes, I understand it's not something she normally does.
Does that *really* mean that, in your opinion, it is weird of us to ask her for it anyway?
Because...that seems incredibly...dumb.
You're calling her out for a read on you that you don't understand, and push on her to explain it when you know she most likely won't. It's a useless line of questioning that won't get you anywhere.
Looking back, your KoL push was also weird because you started the push with a lose-lose situation; either KoL was townreading you for something that she usually scumreads you for, or she was townreading you for no reason.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Considering I haven't moved my vote to Cyan, yes. You even win an e-cookie for pointing out why I voted him; trying to push me onto Tammy was extra.
To answer your next question, I think that DYH 59 is an important question for anyone accusing Goofball at this time, and I think that the anyone accusing Goofball at this time is willfully ignoring it.
Mm. Fair enough. That's a bit more of what I was looking for, really.
....mm? Making a run at the exact same person you made a run at last game?
I don't recall doing so, but, sure, if I did then I was here too.
...are you actually implying that means something? Or are you...just...really...excited...by...ellipses...?
...yes...I...like...ellipses.
But beyond that fact, I don't believe you can have forgotten that you were against Iso for most of day 1.
You probably did. I don't know why this is a big deal, considering the current gamestate is something that usually causes people to push hard on little things. Got anything thing else?
If I did I would have said it.
Do YOU have anything else, because I'm not sure where you're going with this.
Yes, the gamestate is one wherein people push hard on little things.
Vi decided it was bad that I was pushing hard on little things.
I decided it was bad that she was using a gamestate situation as a scumtell.
So...whassup Nacho? You're supposed to advance the line of questioning or draw a conclusion, not keep going in circles.
I'm not comfortable with this kind of response, because that's pretty much most of what you were doing last game. Pushing the onus of 'having a point' onto the people accusing you, and thus avoiding actually giving any kind of response. At first glance it looks like town wondering what the heck these guys are smoking, but last game revisited with the knowledge of you being scum puts a rather different spin on this pattern of behaviour.
The intensity at which Thor is pushing Vi makes me hesitate on the Thor slot
1. Why not Cyan's attack on Vi?
2. Or Vi's attack on Cyan?
3. Or even Vi's attack on me?
4. Am I the only one of all of those that looks remotely legit? 5. And what even makes us scum as a team?
1. Looks like busing.
2. Looks like busing.
3. I must've skimmed over this. Post(s) you are referencing?
4. Yeah, pretty much. And I'm doubtful about that because I feel like this is exactly how you approached me at the start of the first game.
5. things
5(seriousanswer). Vian look like they're busing each other (because, let's face it, that worked splendidly for DYH last game), and you all read scum to me.
3. Her Iso isn't that big, and your iso feature sucks. You can go find it yourself.
4. Are you saying that I'm approaching her like I approached oyu, or that I'm approaching you like I approached you. And also, why shouldn't I? I do play my scum game to resemble my town game after all - I'd be kind of a ponce if I didn't.
5. Why do they and I read scum outside of all of our obvious bussing? Or is it just the bussing making us scum...which would seem a little Catch-22.
...you know, it's rather strange. Strange that, as far as the bolded line of questioning goes, you didn't make the obvious retort - that you and DYH weren't 'bussing each other' last game, because you had no idea that DYH was scum, and DYH knew you had no idea he was scum. So his whole simile is flawed. But... you don't make that exceedingly obvious response.
Here's the thing, Thor. In your chain of (high noise-to-content ratio) responses to Vierni, you more or less said you were encouraging pressure on Iso because he had a vote on DYH while pressuring someone else, and the implication appears to be you were at least somewhat serious about that. Ignoring the fact it was RVS, even, I fail to see what was different between what you say Iso was questionable for, and what (a) you yourself were doing by voting one person while encouraging pressure on Iso, and (b) what I did by leaving my vote on Voxxicus while largely questioning you and Vierni. And you said not a word about me.
Double standards much?
Unvote: Voxxicus
Vote: Thor665
...that being said, I'm not exactly fond of Iso's post in which he throws together Cyan/you/Vierni as scum. Something sounds off about the whole timing of that post.
I'm more upset that she's considering an easy awesome Town bloc and I'm not in it.
Actually I'm acting out on fermented frustration over how she voted me instead of scum in our last game together because god-knows-why since I was clearly Town and the scum in question was CES not being clearly Town (moving "clearly" two words forward could be debated).
I think you're overstating how much of this is strategic vs. petty personal issues.
Also even if I did have confidence in her ability to read me I still wouldn't vote her for that post. This really hasn't been a good faking-Town game for you so far.
@Cyan: What would you say that KoL is doing differently this game than what she did last game?
All of the above deserve a raised eyebrow. Albeit especially the bolded.
Why did those responses raise your eyebrow? I especially would like to know why the first one was problematic, as I'm not in agreement with DGB that Vi looks comfortable at all. He's responding to me about something in the last game we played together where I *did* have a hard time reading him and it should have been more obvious about it than it was and I should have relied more on my gut for which of the pair was actually scum.
Why does DYH's question bother you? It seems a relevant observation and is going to try to figure out where Cyan's head is at right now.
To whit:
The first quote: sounded like a pre-emptive excuse and/or justification.
The second quote: the bolded sounded way too sure. It's an issue I also have with Cyan at the moment - both seemed entirely too sure of someone else's alignment very early in the day.
The third quote: two reasons. The first being that it was, effectively, a leading question. Leading the Cyan/KoL dynamic onto a different track. The second reason being that it felt odd that DYH's thought process would immediately lead into last game, instead of first questioning Cyan about his reasoning process this game. DYH's later post implies he was in fact looking for a particular kind of response, ameliorating that somewhat, but not totally, especially since he hasn't posted since then.
-------------------
I don't like Thor's justifications and current pattern of roundabout non-responses. Vierni looks okay to me at the moment. Not fond of Iso or Cyan. And Nacho should be town.
(Aside @Nacho: Cyouni's posts aren't great at the moment. However, I've come to realize that he always looks bad early game. Reading him is much easier around late day 1/early day 2.)
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
...that being said, I'm not exactly fond of Iso's post in which he throws together Cyan/you/Vierni as scum. Something sounds off about the whole timing of that post.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
...that being said, I'm not exactly fond of Iso's post in which he throws together Cyan/you/Vierni as scum. Something sounds off about the whole timing of that post.
The timing?
Meaning...when I came off of V/LA?
Meh. Fair enough. But why choose to accuse both Thor and Vierni now? Do you actually think this is all a long and convoluted bus process between the two of them?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
"Why choose to accuse all of your scumreads at the same time?"
Because I like solving the game on Day 1.
And duh? Like I said, busing early worked splendidly for DYH in round 1 - I see no reason the scum wouldn't immediately try to distance in this game as a result. After all, Cyan was the only one paranoid enough to call out DYH in the endgame, and he's scum in this game.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I also call Smurfhooey on this as well - you literally just said that I had seemed more reasonable or talkative post game and used that to justify your decision to not ignore me.
If your goal was *not* to have reasonable talk - then mission accomplished, but why did you then bring up this point at all and how does it matter in your decision not to ignore me?
If you did want reasonable talk, than my initial question to you about why would you attack me as the opener then holds firm, and you are dodging answering it, why?
Being able to get through to you was a hope that I forewent as you started making scummy posts. In addition, I'd like to remind you that ignoring you wasn't an option anyway given how well that worked in the previous game, where it took an investigative result to get me to bother to read your posts. Ducking away from your obstinate walls of snark and bluster is unfortunately not a viable option.
Not that I expect this to get through to you, but I feel like responding.
--
desCoures, are Iso's posts on page 11 within his Town meta? I mean, the whole thing about three of the most active players in the game being scum and actively trying to tear each other down* is ludicrous, but this is also the person who said that he had scumreads on the entire mafiascum side in the last game. His posts have a completely different tone from what I remember in the previous game, though.
Also, let's all take a moment to appreciate how flimsy Iso's reasoning for calling me scum is. I didn't explain why I didn't lay a nonsense vote on page 1, and I didn't take Cyan's post that I interpreted as a zero-thought attack on me very well.
*except Thor<->Cyan isn't a thing, so it's really two scummy people attacking an innocent once-a-cloudibird.
Looking back, your KoL push was also weird because you started the push with a lose-lose situation; either KoL was townreading you for something that she usually scumreads you for, or she was townreading you for no reason.
I had a reason, though, and I explained it. Does that change anything?
I know it's easy to feel like we've been snowed by Thor the last round, leading to grudges and incentives to take a hard line with him to show him the business.
I wholeheartedly approve of perstering Thor, inasmuch as everyone is self-aware.
[You're calling her out for a read on you that you don't understand, and push on her to explain it when you know she most likely won't. It's a useless line of questioning that won't get you anywhere.
1. It did get me somewhere.
2. That still doesn't explain why I shouldn't try, even if it doesn't.
3. That, even more, still doesn't explain why it's then *scummy* to try.
Looking back, your KoL push was also weird because you started the push with a lose-lose situation; either KoL was townreading you for something that she usually scumreads you for, or she was townreading you for no reason.
Congratulations on discerning that my questioning of her was to help me figure out her alignment and not for strategic gain.
You have discovered that I am town and then acted confused by it.
Good job.
But beyond that fact, I don't believe you can have forgotten that you were against Iso for most of day 1.
You'd be surprised what I can forget.
That said, I don't see how that likely applies in any way - here would be a scum motive in attacking him just as much as ignoring him. Indeed, if you read Nacho he takes it as a town tell at first. So, in other words (and brace yourself here) it's probably a null tell, since there isn't actually a clear scumvantage for either option.
I'm not comfortable with this kind of response, because that's pretty much most of what you were doing last game. Pushing the onus of 'having a point' onto the people accusing you, and thus avoiding actually giving any kind of response.
I always gave a response, and, yes, I wanted to know what their point was. How terribly scummy of me to seek motivation...?
At first glance it looks like town wondering what the heck these guys are smoking, but last game revisited with the knowledge of you being scum puts a rather different spin on this pattern of behaviour.
That it is what I do as town and therefore emulate it when I'm scum in order to look town? Shocking!
...you know, it's rather strange. Strange that, as far as the bolded line of questioning goes, you didn't make the obvious retort - that you and DYH weren't 'bussing each other' last game, because you had no idea that DYH was scum, and DYH knew you had no idea he was scum. So his whole simile is flawed. But... you don't make that exceedingly obvious response.
Yeah, I didn't.
Probably because it wasn't addressing what was being said.
Whether or not I knew, doesn't change that DYH did know and also that it did work. Therefore it is a scum strategy that does seem to work.
The more relevant dismissal would have been "scum didn't win because of that bus, we won due to town deciding to sheep a PR and turn off scumhunting"
But that's not even what the question was about.
Here's the thing, Thor. In your chain of (high noise-to-content ratio) responses to Vierni, you more or less said you were encouraging pressure on Iso because he had a vote on DYH while pressuring someone else, and the implication appears to be you were at least somewhat serious about that. Ignoring the fact it was RVS, even, I fail to see what was different between what you say Iso was questionable for, and what (a) you yourself were doing by voting one person while encouraging pressure on Iso, and (b) what I did by leaving my vote on Voxxicus while largely questioning you and Vierni. And you said not a word about me.
Double standards much?
All of those were different situations.
Look at the time of the game, the reason for their vote, and the amount of time spent on the secondary suspect.
If you still think all of them look identical let me know.
...that being said, I'm not exactly fond of Iso's post in which he throws together Cyan/you/Vierni as scum. Something sounds off about the whole timing of that post.
I'm more upset that she's considering an easy awesome Town bloc and I'm not in it.
Actually I'm acting out on fermented frustration over how she voted me instead of scum in our last game together because god-knows-why since I was clearly Town and the scum in question was CES not being clearly Town (moving "clearly" two words forward could be debated).
I think you're overstating how much of this is strategic vs. petty personal issues.
Also even if I did have confidence in her ability to read me I still wouldn't vote her for that post. This really hasn't been a good faking-Town game for you so far.
@Cyan: What would you say that KoL is doing differently this game than what she did last game?
All of the above deserve a raised eyebrow. Albeit especially the bolded.
Why did those responses raise your eyebrow? I especially would like to know why the first one was problematic, as I'm not in agreement with DGB that Vi looks comfortable at all. He's responding to me about something in the last game we played together where I *did* have a hard time reading him and it should have been more obvious about it than it was and I should have relied more on my gut for which of the pair was actually scum.
Why does DYH's question bother you? It seems a relevant observation and is going to try to figure out where Cyan's head is at right now.
To whit:
The first quote: sounded like a pre-emptive excuse and/or justification.
The second quote: the bolded sounded way too sure. It's an issue I also have with Cyan at the moment - both seemed entirely too sure of someone else's alignment very early in the day.
The third quote: two reasons. The first being that it was, effectively, a leading question. Leading the Cyan/KoL dynamic onto a different track. The second reason being that it felt odd that DYH's thought process would immediately lead into last game, instead of first questioning Cyan about his reasoning process this game. DYH's later post implies he was in fact looking for a particular kind of response, ameliorating that somewhat, but not totally, especially since he hasn't posted since then.
-------------------
I don't like Thor's justifications and current pattern of roundabout non-responses. Vierni looks okay to me at the moment. Not fond of Iso or Cyan. And Nacho should be town.
(Aside @Nacho: Cyouni's posts aren't great at the moment. However, I've come to realize that he always looks bad early game. Reading him is much easier around late day 1/early day 2.)
Being able to get through to you was a hope that I forewent as you started making scummy posts.
You're still dodging Vi.
Okay, let's say this did happen. When did it happen? Because apparently it happened before you ever responded to me...and in that case why did you ever bring up a motivation for your actions that involved communicating with me, since you never attempted that, because you already thought I was scum.
@Everyone - please go back and follow this conversation thread. Then, y'know, vote appropriately.
It's an issue I also have with Cyan at the moment - both seemed entirely too sure of someone else's alignment very early in the day.
I'm sorry, have we met? Oh wait, we definitely have. This is about as far as possible from being a valid point against me.
*except Thor<->Cyan isn't a thing, so it's really two scummy people attacking an innocent once-a-cloudibird.
Right, so now we are conveniently both scummy, but you're completely innocent. Seeing an experienced player make a statement like this regarding themselves just makes me that much more confident that you are scum.
His posts have a completely different tone from what I remember in the previous game, though.
Yes, because playing a completely different way worked so well for me last game, right?
Quote from Vierni »
Also, let's all take a moment to appreciate how flimsy Iso's reasoning for calling me scum is. I didn't explain why I didn't lay a nonsense vote on page 1
Congratulations on discerning that my questioning of her was to help me figure out her alignment and not for strategic gain.
You have discovered that I am town and then acted confused by it.
Good job.
I'm like, 800% sure you said something almost exactly like this to me in the last game.
If the Thor wagon gets bigger than the Vi wagon, consider my vote on it.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Cyan is doing that thing where he latches on to someone and construes them to be scum for every action they take. This is more likely a good sign that he is town.
Unvote
Thor is acting completely different than he did last game - Kami's comment about him seeming "happier" is totally on the mark.
@dC: My questioning Cyan about last game feeds directly into the question I asked this game. He was so off-the-mark about Kami that I wanted to understand what he saw differently this time that would warrant him to be suspicious again. While he got her gender wrong, I understand the point he was making. That, coupled with his rabid attraction to Vierni has me feeling fine about him.
You and Iso have drastically different reads than me at this point, and that's alarming.
I'm going to fence-sit this Vierni wagon and :munch:.
So..did you just not remember all of this when you were making the following statement:
Quote from Iso »
It's an issue I also have with Cyan at the moment - both seemed entirely too sure of someone else's alignment very early in the day.
I didn't make that statement.
I read this quote, thought to myself, "That doesn't seem like me - I get certain early reads all the time," then read all of my posts again to make sure I didn't just forget I made the post when I was tired; I didn't make that post. Also, I would have capitalized Day.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, Iso, because you and I have this knack for nabbing people early.
desCoures because - while I made up a bunch of crap last game about how "off" his reads were - well, it was just that. Me making stuff up. Which I seem to recall dC saying was exactly what I was doing. What I didn't make up last game is how dC is generally the benchmark for analysts.
So, with that said - I feel good about my reads, but the two of you dissenting says that the likelihood I'm off is higher and/or there's scum amongst you.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm like, 800% sure you said something almost exactly like this to me in the last game.
I probably did.
By what logic is that a scumtell though?
I also asked questions.
Voted people.
And used the word 'derp'
Are any of those scumtells too?
Thor is acting completely different than he did last game
It's things like this that always make me suspect everyone is insane.
I have now had the same action called a town tell and a scum tell, and also my bahvior called similar and completely different.
None of these people are talking to each other.
Many of them are asking me to justify their opinions.
And, probably, people will still wonder why I get snarky.
I'm going to fence-sit this Vierni wagon and :munch:.
Could you at least address her double speak that I am calling out and say whether you think it exists or if I'm making a mountain of a pile of dirt and rock that is smaller than a mountain and may or may not be the dwelling of subterranean mammals?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Okay, let's say this did happen. When did it happen? Because apparently it happened before you ever responded to me...and in that case why did you ever bring up a motivation for your actions that involved communicating with me, since you never attempted that, because you already thought I was scum.
In between games, obviously.
I freely admit to being totally confused about your line of questioning so I'm basically just answering whatever I think it is you're asking because I don't feel compelled not to.
--
Quote from "Cyan 175" »
Right, so now we are conveniently both scummy, but you're completely innocent.
The bolded implies any kind of shift from my previous stance.
--
@Iso: I did forget that you were supposedly playing differently from your norm in the prior game. (You should keep playing like that, though; I liked it better.) (To clarify before someone starts doing stupid things like using what I said to contradict me - I still have little faith in your ability to read people, but the style in which you delivered it was much more entertaining last time. My priorities once again become clear.)
And no, I don't see not answering your silly question as particularly scummy. There is no scum motivation to me not placing a random vote, and again, it's nothing I haven't done before. In fact it stops me from posting ungodly walls of text like this one.
W.R.T. your 177 and DYH's 179 - Interesting. It seems like I gave Cyan far too much credit in the wake of the previous game. If that's the case, then I suppose Cyan is more likely to be Town (at the expense of my respect for him).
--
Quote from "DYH 179" »
I'm going to fence-sit this Vierni wagon and :munch:.
That's an interesting choice of words. Is that what you meant?
Iso was quoting an exchange that occurred between us last game. You know, that other Cross Town game that you were in. And where you had no problem with my behavior.
Vierni is flailing pitifully. He just needs to get lynched already. He is at L-2, which by our standards means that he should be claiming, but who knows whether or not anyone is actually going to follow that this game.
For what my unheeded words are worth, I remember that you bounced between four people D1 as you attempted to find your way around, finally winding up "out of suspects".
But what I really want to post is a vote count, for reasons that should become apparent.
---
Vierni (4) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Iso
Thor665 (2) - Vierni, desCoures
Nachomamma8 (1) - Tammy
Not Voting (4) - Nachomamma8, llamarble, Cyouni, Voxxicus, DYH
@Iso: I did forget that you were supposedly playing differently from your norm in the prior game. (You should keep playing like that, though; I liked it better.) (To clarify before someone starts doing stupid things like using what I said to contradict me - I still have little faith in your ability to read people, but the style in which you delivered it was much more entertaining last time. My priorities once again become clear.)
This way is far more entertaining for myself.
Quote from Vierni »
And no, I don't see not answering your silly question as particularly scummy. There is no scum motivation to me not placing a random vote, and again, it's nothing I haven't done before. In fact it stops me from posting ungodly walls of text like this one.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
They're particularly egregious at the start of this game, given that on the one day that I played the other game, I nailed 2/3 scumzors and asked for an ill-fated extension to have more time to work on a Thorscum lynch.
I actually looked it over during Day 4, and this isn't entirely incorrect. However, you were also throwing enough darts that one or two had to hit.
I'll make a wager right now that your Cyan/Cyouni/Vierni team contains no more than one scum (but a whole lot of vowels).
This feels like a really roundabout way of saying Cyan's scum. Why so cagey about it?
Cyan hadn't even posted at that point in time, so your definition of "present" needs to be explained more.
If "present" is defined as "readily available throughout the game", then how would Nacho be an ideal choice if that's not the case?
Please realize I've had an entire game to determine how often someone is likely to post. Am I the only person who remembers that the previous game ever happened?
Also, Nacho is notorious for lurking right when I need him most. See jilted-lover tingles referenced in previous game.
You also had the entire game to determine how flexible someone is. And yet you chose Cyan despite that.
That still doesn't answer why Nacho would be an ideal choice.
Then, there's a bunch of people who haven't posted much. Cyouni seems to be playing a very similar "explain" game to last time, but I never meta'ed him so I have no idea whether this is something he also does as scum (although I can't imagine him not doing it as scum).
It is, simply because it's what I do as town. There's a blog link you can grab for meta purposes if you so choose.
The intensity at which Thor is pushing Vi makes me hesitate on the Thor slot
1. Why not Cyan's attack on Vi?
2. Or Vi's attack on Cyan?
3. Or even Vi's attack on me?
4. Am I the only one of all of those that looks remotely legit? 5. And what even makes us scum as a team?
1. Looks like busing.
2. Looks like busing.
3. I must've skimmed over this. Post(s) you are referencing?
4. Yeah, pretty much. And I'm doubtful about that because I feel like this is exactly how you approached me at the start of the first game.
5. things
5(seriousanswer). Vian look like they're busing each other (because, let's face it, that worked splendidly for DYH last game), and you all read scum to me.
3. Her Iso isn't that big, and your iso feature sucks. You can go find it yourself.
4. Are you saying that I'm approaching her like I approached oyu, or that I'm approaching you like I approached you. And also, why shouldn't I? I do play my scum game to resemble my town game after all - I'd be kind of a ponce if I didn't.
5. Why do they and I read scum outside of all of our obvious bussing? Or is it just the bussing making us scum...which would seem a little Catch-22.
...you know, it's rather strange. Strange that, as far as the bolded line of questioning goes, you didn't make the obvious retort - that you and DYH weren't 'bussing each other' last game, because you had no idea that DYH was scum, and DYH knew you had no idea he was scum. So his whole simile is flawed. But... you don't make that exceedingly obvious response.
It seems odd that you'd choose this to pick at - that line of logic doesn't really address the point. It's oblique at best.
Say Iso concedes the point - it's not analogous to the situation in the previous game. The whole point about them appearing to be busing still exists. That retort means nothing.
Here's the thing, Thor. In your chain of (high noise-to-content ratio) responses to Vierni, you more or less said you were encouraging pressure on Iso because he had a vote on DYH while pressuring someone else, and the implication appears to be you were at least somewhat serious about that. Ignoring the fact it was RVS, even, I fail to see what was different between what you say Iso was questionable for, and what (a) you yourself were doing by voting one person while encouraging pressure on Iso, and (b) what I did by leaving my vote on Voxxicus while largely questioning you and Vierni. And you said not a word about me.
Double standards much?
All of those were different situations.
Look at the time of the game, the reason for their vote, and the amount of time spent on the secondary suspect.
If you still think all of them look identical let me know.
Obviously he finds the situations identical, since the question's even being asked. I'd like to see your explanation.
Looking back a bit, this seems like an odd thing to say at this point in time. Besides the choice of Cyan as the target, the fact that it was even tacked on is odd.
Being able to get through to you was a hope that I forewent as you started making scummy posts.
You're still dodging Vi.
Okay, let's say this did happen. When did it happen? Because apparently it happened before you ever responded to me...and in that case why did you ever bring up a motivation for your actions that involved communicating with me, since you never attempted that, because you already thought I was scum.
@Everyone - please go back and follow this conversation thread. Then, y'know, vote appropriately.
Vi is talking out of both sides of her mouth.
I'm not seeing the connection here. Clarify it for me.
It seems odd that you'd choose this to pick at - that line of logic doesn't really address the point. It's oblique at best.
Say Iso concedes the point - it's not analogous to the situation in the previous game. The whole point about them appearing to be busing still exists. That retort means nothing.
His argument was that we were bussing because it worked so well in the last game for scum.
Even if we presume that all three of his scumspects are going to base a large amount of their play on the last game they completed together as opposed to their scum play over probably a large number of years having play experience as scum - that still begs the question of why he thinks it is bussing in the first place, and I was asking him if he saw us as scum, and then decided we were bussing - or if he saw us voting, decided it was bussing,a nd then decided we were scum.
It's actually a very direct and important question about what he said he was seeing - how do you not see that and, indeed, see it as a dodge of his point?
Obviously he finds the situations identical, since the question's even being asked. I'd like to see your explanation.
He finds them similar.
I do not and am asking him to justify how they are similar.
Do you find them similar? If so, why, if not, why do you think I should need to try to defend myself from a nonsensical attack?
I'm not seeing the connection here. Clarify it for me.
Timeline
1. Vi says she normally avoids me because Thor iz motormouth lulz!!1!
2. Vi decides not to ignore me this game.
3. She says it was because I actually talked normally at the end of last game, so she thought we could have meaningful conversation instead of usual Thor bluster.
4. I say, if that's what you wanted, why did you open conversation with an attack on me? That would, naturally, make me react negatively, especially since it was a dumb attack.
5. Vi says, well, naw, you looked scummy, so I had to attack.
6. I say, well, since that was your first interaction with me, why are you explaining this idea of pro-town communication with me, since clearly that was *never* a goal.
7. Vi grows a second mouth and starts talking around the point.
8. I decide that she did #3 as a pro town sounding meaningless post, and that she never intended to do that, and therefore she's lying to cover up the truth, and therefore is scum.
9. I call her scum and ask others to look at the interaction.
10. You find it too difficult to do (probably because the Iso feature sucks, and you skimmed all the posts anyway)
11. I write a timeline.
Make sense?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I don't feel like making 150 posts' worth of quotewalls, so:
Unvote, Vote Vierni
Scumteam is Vi, Thor, and Cyan.
The intensity at which Thor is pushing Vi makes me hesitate on the Thor slot, but if that's the case, I'd likely assign a nonentity to it (llama, Voxx). No one else is really pinging me so far.
You're welcome.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh, snap, I called that a scumtell, how dastardly of me!
Nervous much?
Because, y'know, I didn't.
What, in any of your experiences or information about me would make you think this?
And this is one of the silliest things I have ever heard said.
That's like saying 'trying to get that employee to do their job makes no sense because they usually don't do their job.'
I also call Smurfhooey on this as well - you literally just said that I had seemed more reasonable or talkative post game and used that to justify your decision to not ignore me.
If your goal was *not* to have reasonable talk - then mission accomplished, but why did you then bring up this point at all and how does it matter in your decision not to ignore me?
If you did want reasonable talk, than my initial question to you about why would you attack me as the opener then holds firm, and you are dodging answering it, why?
I am actually feeling really sold on you as scum now due to this answer.
So, basically the scumteam of "we hate being scum with Vi"
Got it.
Why not Cyan's attack on Vi?
Or Vi's attack on Cyan?
Or even Vi's attack on me?
Am I the only one of all of those that looks remotely legit?
And what even makes us scum as a team?
...
None of it. It seems like a natural impulse to me.
Expecting them to do their job doesn't make sense because they usually don't do their job.
1. Looks like busing.
2. Looks like busing.
3. I must've skimmed over this. Post(s) you are referencing?
4. Yeah, pretty much. And I'm doubtful about that because I feel like this is exactly how you approached me at the start of the first game.
5. things
5(seriousanswer). Vian look like they're busing each other (because, let's face it, that worked splendidly for DYH last game), and you all read scum to me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
How much of the stuff in your cases on other players was sort of presented like psuedo-meta while actually just being you projecting your playstyle onto them?
Yes.
Which would matter if I had claimed her not presenting that info was scummy of her and tried to sell other people that it was weird.
However, you called me out for *pushing* on her to do so.
Yes, I understand it's not something she normally does.
Does that *really* mean that, in your opinion, it is weird of us to ask her for it anyway?
Because...that seems incredibly...dumb.
3. Her Iso isn't that big, and your iso feature sucks. You can go find it yourself.
4. Are you saying that I'm approaching her like I approached oyu, or that I'm approaching you like I approached you. And also, why shouldn't I? I do play my scum game to resemble my town game after all - I'd be kind of a ponce if I didn't.
5. Why do they and I read scum outside of all of our obvious bussing? Or is it just the bussing making us scum...which would seem a little Catch-22.
4. I'm saying you approached her like you approached me [in game 1]. And seeing as that's the case, it was how I caught you [in game 1] so I'm going to use it as proof you're scum [in this game].
5. Well I've explained my scumThor read above; as for the rest, Vi didn't answer my question early on, her response to Cyan's vote was poor, and I'm completely uncompelled by what I've seen from her play so far. Additionally, Cyan's a crafty scum; he could probably sense a Vi wagon was going to develop and jumped on before it seemed like there was blood in the water to avert suspicion (it's what I would do), and something about him feels off so far in this game. I've been duped by scumCyan before (Redux 2, though the town ultimately won that when ZDS, AE, and I lynched Cyan at endgame) and I'm not eager to have that performance repeat itself [in regards to my read on Cyan].
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Probably the same ratio as it is normally. Normally when an action feels town to me, it feels town because it strikes me as something I couldn't see scum doing easily/smoothly.
You're calling her out for a read on you that you don't understand, and push on her to explain it when you know she most likely won't. It's a useless line of questioning that won't get you anywhere.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Looking back, your KoL push was also weird because you started the push with a lose-lose situation; either KoL was townreading you for something that she usually scumreads you for, or she was townreading you for no reason.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Mm. Fair enough. That's a bit more of what I was looking for, really.
@Thor665
...yes...I...like...ellipses.
But beyond that fact, I don't believe you can have forgotten that you were against Iso for most of day 1.
I'm not comfortable with this kind of response, because that's pretty much most of what you were doing last game. Pushing the onus of 'having a point' onto the people accusing you, and thus avoiding actually giving any kind of response. At first glance it looks like town wondering what the heck these guys are smoking, but last game revisited with the knowledge of you being scum puts a rather different spin on this pattern of behaviour.
...you know, it's rather strange. Strange that, as far as the bolded line of questioning goes, you didn't make the obvious retort - that you and DYH weren't 'bussing each other' last game, because you had no idea that DYH was scum, and DYH knew you had no idea he was scum. So his whole simile is flawed. But... you don't make that exceedingly obvious response.
Here's the thing, Thor. In your chain of (high noise-to-content ratio) responses to Vierni, you more or less said you were encouraging pressure on Iso because he had a vote on DYH while pressuring someone else, and the implication appears to be you were at least somewhat serious about that. Ignoring the fact it was RVS, even, I fail to see what was different between what you say Iso was questionable for, and what (a) you yourself were doing by voting one person while encouraging pressure on Iso, and (b) what I did by leaving my vote on Voxxicus while largely questioning you and Vierni. And you said not a word about me.
Double standards much?
Unvote: Voxxicus
Vote: Thor665
...that being said, I'm not exactly fond of Iso's post in which he throws together Cyan/you/Vierni as scum. Something sounds off about the whole timing of that post.
@Tammy
To whit:
The first quote: sounded like a pre-emptive excuse and/or justification.
The second quote: the bolded sounded way too sure. It's an issue I also have with Cyan at the moment - both seemed entirely too sure of someone else's alignment very early in the day.
The third quote: two reasons. The first being that it was, effectively, a leading question. Leading the Cyan/KoL dynamic onto a different track. The second reason being that it felt odd that DYH's thought process would immediately lead into last game, instead of first questioning Cyan about his reasoning process this game. DYH's later post implies he was in fact looking for a particular kind of response, ameliorating that somewhat, but not totally, especially since he hasn't posted since then.
-------------------
I don't like Thor's justifications and current pattern of roundabout non-responses. Vierni looks okay to me at the moment. Not fond of Iso or Cyan. And Nacho should be town.
(Aside @Nacho: Cyouni's posts aren't great at the moment. However, I've come to realize that he always looks bad early game. Reading him is much easier around late day 1/early day 2.)
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
The timing?
Meaning...when I came off of V/LA?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Meh. Fair enough. But why choose to accuse both Thor and Vierni now? Do you actually think this is all a long and convoluted bus process between the two of them?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Because I like solving the game on Day 1.
And duh? Like I said, busing early worked splendidly for DYH in round 1 - I see no reason the scum wouldn't immediately try to distance in this game as a result. After all, Cyan was the only one paranoid enough to call out DYH in the endgame, and he's scum in this game.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Not that I expect this to get through to you, but I feel like responding.
--
desCoures, are Iso's posts on page 11 within his Town meta? I mean, the whole thing about three of the most active players in the game being scum and actively trying to tear each other down* is ludicrous, but this is also the person who said that he had scumreads on the entire mafiascum side in the last game. His posts have a completely different tone from what I remember in the previous game, though.
Also, let's all take a moment to appreciate how flimsy Iso's reasoning for calling me scum is. I didn't explain why I didn't lay a nonsense vote on page 1, and I didn't take Cyan's post that I interpreted as a zero-thought attack on me very well.
*except Thor<->Cyan isn't a thing, so it's really two scummy people attacking an innocent once-a-cloudibird.
I had a reason, though, and I explained it. Does that change anything?
I wholeheartedly approve of perstering Thor, inasmuch as everyone is self-aware.
1. It did get me somewhere.
2. That still doesn't explain why I shouldn't try, even if it doesn't.
3. That, even more, still doesn't explain why it's then *scummy* to try.
Congratulations on discerning that my questioning of her was to help me figure out her alignment and not for strategic gain.
You have discovered that I am town and then acted confused by it.
Good job.
You'd be surprised what I can forget.
That said, I don't see how that likely applies in any way - here would be a scum motive in attacking him just as much as ignoring him. Indeed, if you read Nacho he takes it as a town tell at first. So, in other words (and brace yourself here) it's probably a null tell, since there isn't actually a clear scumvantage for either option.
I always gave a response, and, yes, I wanted to know what their point was. How terribly scummy of me to seek motivation...?
That it is what I do as town and therefore emulate it when I'm scum in order to look town? Shocking!
Yeah, I didn't.
Probably because it wasn't addressing what was being said.
Whether or not I knew, doesn't change that DYH did know and also that it did work. Therefore it is a scum strategy that does seem to work.
The more relevant dismissal would have been "scum didn't win because of that bus, we won due to town deciding to sheep a PR and turn off scumhunting"
But that's not even what the question was about.
All of those were different situations.
Look at the time of the game, the reason for their vote, and the amount of time spent on the secondary suspect.
If you still think all of them look identical let me know.
You're still dodging Vi.
Okay, let's say this did happen. When did it happen? Because apparently it happened before you ever responded to me...and in that case why did you ever bring up a motivation for your actions that involved communicating with me, since you never attempted that, because you already thought I was scum.
@Everyone - please go back and follow this conversation thread. Then, y'know, vote appropriately.
Vi is talking out of both sides of her mouth.
I'm sorry, have we met? Oh wait, we definitely have. This is about as far as possible from being a valid point against me.
Right, so now we are conveniently both scummy, but you're completely innocent. Seeing an experienced player make a statement like this regarding themselves just makes me that much more confident that you are scum.
Yes, because playing a completely different way worked so well for me last game, right?
And you don't think that's scummy?
I'm like, 800% sure you said something almost exactly like this to me in the last game.
If the Thor wagon gets bigger than the Vi wagon, consider my vote on it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Surely you didn't forget this discussion early Day 1, Vi:
?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So..did you just not remember all of this when you were making the following statement:
Unvote
Thor is acting completely different than he did last game - Kami's comment about him seeming "happier" is totally on the mark.
@dC: My questioning Cyan about last game feeds directly into the question I asked this game. He was so off-the-mark about Kami that I wanted to understand what he saw differently this time that would warrant him to be suspicious again. While he got her gender wrong, I understand the point he was making. That, coupled with his rabid attraction to Vierni has me feeling fine about him.
You and Iso have drastically different reads than me at this point, and that's alarming.
I'm going to fence-sit this Vierni wagon and :munch:.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I didn't make that statement.
I read this quote, thought to myself, "That doesn't seem like me - I get certain early reads all the time," then read all of my posts again to make sure I didn't just forget I made the post when I was tired; I didn't make that post. Also, I would have capitalized Day.
Why?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Found it. While I'm flattered you'd mistake me for dC, I'd still like an explanation.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
desCoures because - while I made up a bunch of crap last game about how "off" his reads were - well, it was just that. Me making stuff up. Which I seem to recall dC saying was exactly what I was doing. What I didn't make up last game is how dC is generally the benchmark for analysts.
So, with that said - I feel good about my reads, but the two of you dissenting says that the likelihood I'm off is higher and/or there's scum amongst you.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
@DYH: So, which is more likely, in your opinion?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I probably did.
By what logic is that a scumtell though?
I also asked questions.
Voted people.
And used the word 'derp'
Are any of those scumtells too?
It's things like this that always make me suspect everyone is insane.
I have now had the same action called a town tell and a scum tell, and also my bahvior called similar and completely different.
None of these people are talking to each other.
Many of them are asking me to justify their opinions.
And, probably, people will still wonder why I get snarky.
Could you at least address her double speak that I am calling out and say whether you think it exists or if I'm making a mountain of a pile of dirt and rock that is smaller than a mountain and may or may not be the dwelling of subterranean mammals?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm still looking for the logic of how it is a scumtell.
I freely admit to being totally confused about your line of questioning so I'm basically just answering whatever I think it is you're asking because I don't feel compelled not to.
--
The bolded implies any kind of shift from my previous stance.
--
@Iso: I did forget that you were supposedly playing differently from your norm in the prior game. (You should keep playing like that, though; I liked it better.) (To clarify before someone starts doing stupid things like using what I said to contradict me - I still have little faith in your ability to read people, but the style in which you delivered it was much more entertaining last time. My priorities once again become clear.)
And no, I don't see not answering your silly question as particularly scummy. There is no scum motivation to me not placing a random vote, and again, it's nothing I haven't done before. In fact it stops me from posting ungodly walls of text like this one.
W.R.T. your 177 and DYH's 179 - Interesting. It seems like I gave Cyan far too much credit in the wake of the previous game. If that's the case, then I suppose Cyan is more likely to be Town (at the expense of my respect for him).
--
That's an interesting choice of words. Is that what you meant?
|>
|
Iso was quoting an exchange that occurred between us last game. You know, that other Cross Town game that you were in. And where you had no problem with my behavior.
Vierni is flailing pitifully. He just needs to get lynched already. He is at L-2, which by our standards means that he should be claiming, but who knows whether or not anyone is actually going to follow that this game.
But what I really want to post is a vote count, for reasons that should become apparent.
---
Vierni (4) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Iso
Thor665 (2) - Vierni, desCoures
Nachomamma8 (1) - Tammy
Not Voting (4) - Nachomamma8, llamarble, Cyouni, Voxxicus, DYH
Let's not claim before I do stuff, well though that may have worked in Wingate.
From my utterly cursory glances at things, the Vi wagon seems like something I may have helped start were I actually doing stuff.
This way is far more entertaining for myself.
Cool, I disagree, you're scum, etc.
To point out that your buddies are really committed to busing you?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Vierni (4) - Cyan, Thor665, Kami of Lunacy, Iso
Thor665 (2) - Vierni, desCoures
Cyouni (1) - Tammy
Not Voting (5) - Nachomamma8, llamarble, Cyouni, Voxxicus, DYH
With 12 still alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I'm going to try to get got caught up tonight, but if I don't post anything else tonight I fell asleep while reading and will get to this tomorrow.
unvote
Vote cyouni
Why are you stalling it, then? You know we will be distracted by squirrels.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You also had the entire game to determine how flexible someone is. And yet you chose Cyan despite that.
That still doesn't answer why Nacho would be an ideal choice.
Alright, I can see that.
It is, simply because it's what I do as town. There's a blog link you can grab for meta purposes if you so choose.
It seems odd that you'd choose this to pick at - that line of logic doesn't really address the point. It's oblique at best.
Say Iso concedes the point - it's not analogous to the situation in the previous game. The whole point about them appearing to be busing still exists. That retort means nothing.
Obviously he finds the situations identical, since the question's even being asked. I'd like to see your explanation.
Looking back a bit, this seems like an odd thing to say at this point in time. Besides the choice of Cyan as the target, the fact that it was even tacked on is odd.
I'm not seeing the connection here. Clarify it for me.
His argument was that we were bussing because it worked so well in the last game for scum.
Even if we presume that all three of his scumspects are going to base a large amount of their play on the last game they completed together as opposed to their scum play over probably a large number of years having play experience as scum - that still begs the question of why he thinks it is bussing in the first place, and I was asking him if he saw us as scum, and then decided we were bussing - or if he saw us voting, decided it was bussing,a nd then decided we were scum.
It's actually a very direct and important question about what he said he was seeing - how do you not see that and, indeed, see it as a dodge of his point?
He finds them similar.
I do not and am asking him to justify how they are similar.
Do you find them similar? If so, why, if not, why do you think I should need to try to defend myself from a nonsensical attack?
Timeline
1. Vi says she normally avoids me because Thor iz motormouth lulz!!1!
2. Vi decides not to ignore me this game.
3. She says it was because I actually talked normally at the end of last game, so she thought we could have meaningful conversation instead of usual Thor bluster.
4. I say, if that's what you wanted, why did you open conversation with an attack on me? That would, naturally, make me react negatively, especially since it was a dumb attack.
5. Vi says, well, naw, you looked scummy, so I had to attack.
6. I say, well, since that was your first interaction with me, why are you explaining this idea of pro-town communication with me, since clearly that was *never* a goal.
7. Vi grows a second mouth and starts talking around the point.
8. I decide that she did #3 as a pro town sounding meaningless post, and that she never intended to do that, and therefore she's lying to cover up the truth, and therefore is scum.
9. I call her scum and ask others to look at the interaction.
10. You find it too difficult to do (probably because the Iso feature sucks, and you skimmed all the posts anyway)
11. I write a timeline.
Make sense?