@Nacho - I already did. Though will admit I'm changing my lineup at this stage.
If you think you see a specific excitement, then ask me about it. If you think I dodged something, ask me about it. But I didn't,a nd I actually doubt you are really doing more than faking the scumhunting here.
===================================
@Godfather theory
The reason I really decided to rob myself of sleep and log in here was I had this consideration as I was driving back to my hotel.
The GF theory actually doesn't make a lot of sense.
Seriously.
Okay, let's just say, for the sake of lulz, that I am scum, I have a partner who is a godfather, and we decided to kill the Vig rather than the cop because the Vig was a bigger threat to us.
For that to be legit, that means that we had to think two things;
1. That I was a decently unlikely cop investigation (which, if Nacho wasn't scum he would tell you that I have an abiding issue with cops when i am scum and hold them responsible for a large amount of my scum losses because I find I am a high priority cop investigation)
2. The Godfather would have to look scummy enough to be a likely Vig shot while still having a decent chance of being investigated as compared to me.
So, you have Thor, one of the *most* suspected people in the game.
You have Cy, also one of the most.
DYH...apparently a chosen mislynch for scum and pretty painfully not Thor's scumbuddy.
And you have...who...who is next there?
Vi was thought of as town by most. So was Cyan. So was Nacho. So, you have scum with a set of three optimal targets for the Vig and Cop *none* of which are good for them in any combination.
So why kill
Gah, i actually managed to answer that myself in my own head.
No theory late at night.
Whatever, i *still* think it's dumb to suggest this was a gambit at least with the idea of getting a theory GF investigated unless you think the theory GF is DYH - which makes no fething sense at all.
Functionally theory scum killed the Vig because theory non-limited Vig is a threat if they want a win in lylo via speed hammer - so actually the Vig kill makes sense in a universe without Godfathers (but if they have a roleblocker it also makes no sense *unless the Cop is lying*
So, at least I submit my theory roleblocker argument is equal to the theory GF one, if not provably superior.
That said, the theory GF thing is still a derp reason to lynch me, and if I waas scum I totally would have killed a cop and *also* wouldn't have been demanding clarification of the soft claim mush he did yesterday.
Actually - that does work.
Okay, say I'm on a scum team with a GF and someone claims "some variety of investigative" Why would I bother fishing for clarification? With a GF in play I already know he's an investigation role that will not hurt our GF, so I don't need to know anything else about him, I'd stay quiet.
Instead scum Thor who *isn't* the GF paints a bulls-eye on himself for the cop?
that makes no sense.
Boo-yah! Theory at late night in your faces!
Thor is conf. town.
Voxx is conf. scum.
You may sheep me now.
And then tomorrow pay attention to Nacho and actually make him answer my questions that he's hand waving today.
As far as me ripping people apart. please show me he interaction where I didn't call people derp for buying this claim. Please show me the timeframe besides right now when I actually last had a chance for a back and forth.
Riiiiight.
I'm looking for you to go "x is scum because y."
Explaining Voxx scum because he fakeclaimed is cool and all, but talking about why players aren't his partner and why they are scum on their own merits is way, way cooler.
Oh, you mean like all the "town" here are doing with me?
Derp.
Okay, sure, I will do this once I am back at my computer because I am not doing it on a pad.
this is what I want answered, Thor.
or is all of this posting still coming from a pad?
...of course you are. Cyan's ISO is quoted in one spoiler in-thread, i don't think it would be too much trouble if you gave me the highlights of Cyan-town using that, iPad or no iPad.
And also explain why me ignoring specific points of yours is a huge problem (considering that we have discussed pretty much all of them to some extent) while Cyan ignores specific points from me for no reason and you know that I have a tendency to be dismissive of things (demonstrated in your first post of the game and me ignoring the hell out of you in No Lynching town).
To answer Thor's question - for better or worse, Nacho's last-minute push is kind of working. I'm kind of lost on what Cyan is doing as Town at this point, because what I see is someone who disappears as soon as someone asks a hard-hitting question.
And also explain why me ignoring specific points of yours is a huge problem (considering that we have discussed pretty much all of them to some extent) while Cyan ignores specific points from me for no reason and you know that I have a tendency to be dismissive of things (demonstrated in your first post of the game and me ignoring the hell out of you in No Lynching town).
Misrep.
You were called out for suggesting the case on you was dumb and saying why, and I said I did the same sort of stuff and knew you did too.
That's different from posting "laughs at case" which is what you did. That's *avoiding* discussing why the case is dumb and praying that people presume it is provably dumb without you having to try to explain why it is so.
The case is not dumb, and I caught you, and then caught you trying to dodge dealing with it.
To answer Thor's question - for better or worse, Nacho's last-minute push is kind of working. I'm kind of lost on what Cyan is doing as Town at this point, because what I see is someone who disappears as soon as someone asks a hard-hitting question.
I agree that Cyan is derping out.
So is Voxx.
So is DYH.
I'm pretty sure that is not *all* scum.
I'm guessing you're intentionally refusing to address the Voxx issue till he un-derps. Okay, but I will want your input thereafter. If you're not, then I'd like you to address that point now.
The Nacho point I still want you to field though is this;
Why would Nacho, who is suggesting the game balance is perfectly fine (and feel free to weigh in on if you think roleblocker = rolecop balance wise) would use the phrase "it's not too horrible" to describe the setup. That is coming from a mindset of someone aware the setup is "horrible" but is arguing that it is not *too* horrible. That i a different mental place than he has presented in any of his other commentary about the setup, and came from, I submit, a legit mental slip wherein he's aware he's presenting a false stance but is trying to soften it through anyway.
Please address that, because the language is screwy, and Nacho's response to being called on it looks awkward too - I think that is a direct hit.
Aight, sorry for absence - got a mix of super busy and sick that wasn't terribly conducive for doing mafia things.
Hm.
I'm still pretty sure we're looking at Nacho as Thor's buddy.
Cyan's been lacking aggression, confidence and activity this game compared to his town games, but... also compared to his scum games. I think it's almost certain that we're looking at mildly apathetic Town!Cyan here, because he just... hasn't made any pushes that would make himself look favorable. The 'whatever maybe I was wrong about Fate' thing just isn't something I can see Cyan doing as scum - he'd have made sure he looked better than that with Fate the clear lynch at that juncture.
Kind of like Thor did, with blatantly refusing to vote Fate, rather than toss a weak finishing vote on him.
Hm.
I can see Vi scum, but Vi/Nacho was a better fit than Vi/Thor.
From a purely behavioral standpoint, ignoring interactions, Nacho's early game play is by far the scummiest thing in the game - when you add on Thor doing the whole 'Yeah, Voxx is itching my paranoia to switch, but nahh, Nacho is just like that', and the Cyouni wagon opposite the Nacho wagon on D1 (with Thor, Fate and Nacho all pushing Cyouni, with 4-5 town on Nacho), it's just the best fit, and I'm pretty confident in it.
I realize there's some confirmation bias at work, but his case on Cyan just feels like setting up a mislynch, tomorrow.
I know that's not exactly the pinnacle of analysis, and I can't pinpoint it, but it just feels manufactured and dishonest. Vi, please take the time tomorrow and look back through Nacho's posts in the early game - the case I made on him, his dismissal of it, and then him Town!Posting after I called him out on the comparison between this game and House Mafia.
Thor's obviously trapped scum that is taking the only avenue of attack he can, and isn't even worth acknowledging.
Trying to pass a basic setup on this site off as only having two power roles, and no investigative ones is just...comical.
My guess would be rolecop + bulletproof, but that still isn't a great counter to the gunsmith + doctor.
It's also possible Thor was confident enough to not roleblock me, and try to push the mislynch on me today. Which obviously would be a terrible idea, but plausible if he hadn't done any research on setups over here, I guess.
But it ultimately just...doesn't matter. The only people that know what the scum have available are the scum themselves (And Zionite).
I'll pull up some Nacho things in the morning, and am fine with moving forwards after I do that.
@Vi, Cyan - if either of you have any questions for me, fire away, either on my play, or on the Nacho read. But please re-read in depth over the night phase/next day.
Even Voxx is admitting that the setup is a little wonky considering what scum did, and his defense is BP scum (to defend from the 2 shot limited Vig...yeah...) No, he's sweating.
Also, trying to paint a Thor/Nacho team is pretty ruddy laughable at this stage. All he's got for that is "Thor and Nacho are aware of each other's meta and react thusly"
By that logic his defense of Cyan is just as incriminating - it's an illogical connection to make. But it *sounds* like scumhunting, which is the point.
Frankly I think he's doing it because I pegged the scumteam right and he's just admitting he knows that nacho looks like scum, but oh gawrsh guys, can't we lynch Thor first.
Rather than, y'know, screaming loudly about how he has a guilty on me and I need death immediately.
And lso, that was his 'don't risk Thor self-hammer' spiel he had to get out?
I don't buy it, it's weak analysis and functionally all of it is about stuff that happened after he asked for a lack of L-1.
He did that all to fake not looking scummy, and hasn't aided the town at all with the post.
And it just occured to me his claimed scum team includes all of us pushing on Cyouni Day 1, and he admits this, and still acts like he is working a valid angle.
Cyan's been lacking aggression, confidence and activity this game compared to his town games, but... also compared to his scum games. I think it's almost certain that we're looking at mildly apathetic Town!Cyan here, because he just... hasn't made any pushes that would make himself look favorable. The 'whatever maybe I was wrong about Fate' thing just isn't something I can see Cyan doing as scum - he'd have made sure he looked better than that with Fate the clear lynch at that juncture.
If Cyan is behaving unlike he normally does like either alignment, why does that make him town? What do you think of his stance changes? Do you really think that they are likely to be coming from town? I seriously don't understand why he wants to save actually sorting the game out or discussing anything until tomorrow. Do you?
I'll wait until you pull up your Nacho things to respond to them.
And it just occured to me his claimed scum team includes all of us pushing on Cyouni Day 1, and he admits this, and still acts like he is working a valid angle.
Don't sleepwalk this people.
What does this argument even mean? You seem to be arguing that you couldn't all 3 be scum because you were all anti-Cyouni Day 1. But that makes fully zero sense, so I assuming you must mean something else and Im just not getting it.
And the MTGS side is not 'derping out'. Voxx claimed a scum investigation on you. I believe him(although his lack of activity and DYH' complete lack of even bearing here are making me waver again). What else is there? I mean, obviously there is another scum, but why do we need to try to figure that out now? And if you're NOT scum, no one really believes you and the game is over, so the same point remains.
I think that Voxx completely faked Thor out with his post to me near the end of Day 2 where he's asking me to reassess my read on him, giving Thor a comfort level that he wouldn't need to worry about being inspected. Additionally, Voxx then mentioned wanting Nacho and Cyouni dead, which leads me to believe either Nacho may not be his partner after all, or he's a Godfather. Helpful, I know.
So instead, I think Thor felt he had more to fear from site-mate, and universally considered town, Llamarble who had indicated he wasn't going to shoot during yesterDay. (He lied, but that wasn't revealed until the day start.)
This meant they could kill Llamarble overnight without risk of dying, which might have seemed safer than shooting the MTGS mystery-investigative-not-a-cop-role who didn't seem to be looking their way. Devil you know versus the one you don't.
Also, there was zero chance Llamarble was going to be mislynched - that possibility at least existed for Voxx.
@Cyan: I understand why you feel the way you do (why waste the effort if this ends up being a gambit), but it makes better sense to get your opinions on the table today with more people to evaluate and discuss them than it does to wait on that off-chance.
What does this argument even mean? You seem to be arguing that you couldn't all 3 be scum because you were all anti-Cyouni Day 1. But that makes fully zero sense, so I assuming you must mean something else and Im just not getting it.
If the three of us are scum our vote advances over the course of the day make no sense. We all hard pushed both Iso *and* Cyourni constantly and with each other, and I blatant defended both of my buddies (self-meta; doesn't happen) and Fate, the lulz busser defended both of his scumbuddies and didn't bus anyone.
Also, today, I apparently decided halfway through my death spiral to finally start distancing as opposed to, y'know, at any other time.
Tell me again how that group looks remotely like scumbuddies except if you buy into Voxx's awkward bus of Nacho and fake claim on me?
And the MTGS side is not 'derping out'. Voxx claimed a scum investigation on you. I believe him(although his lack of activity and DYH' complete lack of even bearing here are making me waver again). What else is there? I mean, obviously there is another scum, but why do we need to try to figure that out now? And if you're NOT scum, no one really believes you and the game is over, so the same point remains.
Voxx's "lack of activity" reads scummy to you.
And you say that it is not "derp out" from the MtGS crowd because it is legit to go quiet...
Whut?
That doesn't make sense, either one side or the other of that equation is legit, not both. Either it's fine to go quiet, or Voxx going quiet is suspect, whassup?
I think that Voxx completely faked Thor out with his post to me near the end of Day 2 where he's asking me to reassess my read on him, giving Thor a comfort level that he wouldn't need to worry about being inspected. Additionally, Voxx then mentioned wanting Nacho and Cyouni dead, which leads me to believe either Nacho may not be his partner after all, or he's a Godfather. Helpful, I know.
So instead, I think Thor felt he had more to fear from site-mate, and universally considered town, Llamarble who had indicated he wasn't going to shoot during yesterDay. (He lied, but that wasn't revealed until the day start.)
This meant they could kill Llamarble overnight without risk of dying, which might have seemed safer than shooting the MTGS mystery-investigative-not-a-cop-role who didn't seem to be looking their way. Devil you know versus the one you don't.
That's cute and all.
Justify why Thor, with a Godfather buddy, would act confused by the cop claim, since he'd already know;
1. That there was an investigative alignment role
and
2. That he would rather it target his buddy and not him presuming they don't kill it, so it doesn't benefit to cast doubt on the cop.
You can't.
Therefore it strongly suggests
1. There is no GF Thor scumbuddy
2. Thor is not scum inherently
Both cast doubt on why you're buying Voxx's claim in lylo at this point.
Look out of the tunnel for a second man, this isn't crazy talk and just because I'm a **** at times doesn't mean I am always pulling scum role PMs or that I can't spot a fake claim...though it helps when I'm the target, natch, but the logic doesn't pan out.
Though, actually the lulz bussing of Fate was meta advanced by Nacho...that might have been strategic.
Meh, I certainly think Fate busses though, whether it is lulzy or not, so my point stands as presented, but I'm not actually claiming the lulz bussing method - e's just an aggressive busser in my opinion.
Edit: I broke a rule about ongoings on MS, I am breaking another to edit this, but I consider that the lesser crime. Destroy me if you must.
Already asked for this post to be deleted, yadda, yadda.
Yeah, to clarify the above post which I edited. I basically revealed something I shouldn't of.
So I freaked out and sent Zionite a PM asking for it to be taken care and also alerted the mod in question over at MS.
Then I started thinking about Zionite's spotty reaction times, so I sent in a general alert about the post.
Then I was just like "well, worst case is, if I edit it here I get booted from this game, but worst case if I don't edit it is I potentially spoil stuff in the other game"
So, basically I decided this was the lesser evil and am taking my odds on it.
I blame a bit of personal stupidity, my derp hours right now, and a few other distractions - but that's what went down.
Sorry if I gak this one up, and early apologies to any theory replacement having to deal with this derp situation as a replacee.
I hope I don't need to be replaced, though throw myself on the mercy of whatever the rules are here for that one. But, the edit was due to idiocy, and you at least have my word that no game information relevant to *this* game was lost.
The most annoying part of this is waiting to see what happens and recognizing it won't turn up until near the very end of my shift when I'm the busiest.
I feel I've already done that.
The only way the setup works with the night actions and PRs it requires is if I am one of the worst players around who decided to paint a target on myself by checking how well the claimed investigative role works on Godfathers...because, y'know, with a GF as my scumbuddy I'd have doubts about that *and* would want to attract attention to me and not him.
Yet, oddly, making sense is that Voxx is fakeclaiming scum and Nacho is his buddy selling a tainted bill of goods.
Shocking.
Feel free to sheep any century.
For added fun you can try to justify Thor/Fate possibly being a team.
Or Thor/Vi
Or Thor/Nacho
Or Thor/DYH
There's a reason i don't look like anyone is my scumbuddy.
It's because I don't have any scumbuddies.
I'm just going to re-read the entire game. There has to be some way to make one side of this situation look better. There just has to.
Actually, it's the other way around. This should be open-and-shut in Voxxicus' favor. Voxxicus has been leading up to a Gunsmith claim since at least the beginning of Day 2 and even telegraphed a Thor investigation while chatting it up with Llamarble. The major reason that dissent looks attractive at all is because Voxxicus has dropped the ball on looking Town and DYH is still halfheartedly looking for the Townball he dropped a long time ago. Like, Voxxicus on page 83 looks superTown. Now it looks like he's deliberately stalling because for some reason Day 3 isn't over yet. Similarly half of Thor's initial couple of pages of spamming the thread looks obvscum and at least half of it's just bad but at least he's hitting the pavement to get things done. I don't have any particular reason to believe Thor couldn't talk his way out of a scum investigation like this; I'm looking more at Town and Towner on the M:tGS side.
--
Cyan, is it plausible for a game here to have just a Doctor and a Vig-of-sorts on the Town's side? I understand that some effort may have been made to match up to mafiascum balance, but evidently not a large one considering that the Role PMs everyone will be getting on the other site probably won't nearly be as flavorful. (Plus as mentioned before Role Cop is overkill against just Doc and Vig IMO, but clearly that's not a shared opinion.)
@Vi: No, I don't think Vig/Doc vs. Role Cop is enough for our meta. Adding gunsmith in for the town, I've pondered the other options which come to mind, and it basically has to be a godfather variant - either the bulletproof kind or the investigation-immune kind (and no, Thor, I don't have to explain why you'd "act confused" about the cop role; that's grasping-at-straws level of WIFOM). The former seems less likely because of the llamarble kill, but then again - if he had used the ability and survived to tell the target didn't die, that would have looked awfully suspicious with the town doc dead.
I don't think Roleblocker/Jailer makes sense as they would've blocked Voxx, or even KoL back on N1. Tough guy is an outside possibility, but I think Thor would've been inclined to agree on the No Lynch proposal, and B) that's a lot of killing power in a 12-player game with Llama's role.
@DYH - if you think it is straw grasping, fine. Just tell me why I would do it as scum with a GF...I don't think there is a sane rationale, and that suggests there is no GF, and if there is no GF what is up with living cop? Please at least dance with me on this, it's not as easily dismissible as you think.
@Vi - gah, serious? He was setting up a claim *and* you think he clearly said he would target me and you still think the scum plan of Thor and his theory buddy of no one makes any sense at all? What you're saying is proving my point! Also, just because I can talk my way out of stuff as scum doesn't mean I stop talking when I am town - my case her is vastly more firm than the Voxx fake claim case that is sinking me, there's a reason no one has presented any supporting Thorscum evidence, and that is because it does not exist.
I'll be finished with this work project on the 4th, and I will dedicate that evening to this, properly.
I got busy, sick, and a bit overwhelmed with RL things, and just haven't had the time to put a block of time into going back through the game like I wanted to.
@Vi - I can't see anything happening that would cause me to vote Cyan over Nacho if I were alive tomorrow. It goes Nacho > Vi > Cyan, to me - Cyan is possible scum, but Nacho is more likely. I do want to put up the 'why' behind it for you and Cyan to look at, before we go into night, but a basic re-read focusing on Nacho, and his interactions with Thor and Fate should cement it.
that is just a DISTANCING POST! He is only saying it to be all like 'TOTALLY NOT NACHO'S SCUM BUD!' There's a reason he's talking about reading the thread because it sound s generically town. There is no suggestion there of 'maybe I'll investigate this guy and just totally iron out an unbreakable opinion on him' type thing there. There's even a built in 'lulz, if I'm alive, because if I'm cop and right about GF and help lynch scum Thor...scum totally WON'T kill me!?!?!
I mean, that doesn't even begin to make sense.
If I flip scuma nd the game continues based off GF theory HOW WOULD HE POSSIBLY NOT GET KILLED!?!
Also, he's trying to set up info for you and Cyan, and NOT CONFIRMED TOWN DYH!?!
Voxx should be hard preaching to DYH because anyone who thinks I am scum ought to be able to read the subtle clues of a Thor/DYH pair making no sense at all.
But he's not even trying to build a town alliance of investigation today!
He is just twaddling along saying vague nothing and praying enough town vote me to push this thing through.
AND YOU'RE ALL LETTING HIM DO IT BECAUSE APPARENTLY NOT SAYING GAK DURING LYLO WITH A QUESTIONABLE INVESTIGATION IS ALL THERE IS TO THE GAME!
What is this?
What am I supposed to be working with here?
I'm right, you're blind, and I can't even get the time of day to so much as discuss the issue because "Thor is obv. scum...derp...because...there is a GF and that's why the cop was left alive and unroleblocked going into lylo with 50% of the living scum at risk...derpa!"
NEWSFLASH!
If I was scum I would have killed the cop and danced around yu feebs with ruddy impunity because scumhunting, and debate, and pressure are apparently things you don't even do.Yeah, for that I'd need some scumbuddy confirmed?
The only point from above that really bears paying attention to is this;
1. Voxx is not actually working or talking like a town player who, if everything he's saying is true, will be assuredly dead tomorrow, and who also has to be 99% certain that DYH is town.
If you could just address that and ignore the rest, and pay more attention to the questions in 1381 that would be happy fun-times.
"So we've been looking for the guy for three days, and he just shows up with his hands palmed?"
"Maybe we should be thanking him for saving us the trouble."
"Or hanging him for wasting our time."
__________
Thor665 has given himself up to the police for his crimes and implication in the Dexter case.
[MS] Thor665 Mafia Goon Peter Backalis
You are Peter Backalis, a small time burglar and alcoholic caught up in a larger conspiracy than you're used to. You're not a murderer, but Willie Garza talked you into it. Now you're in over your head and back on the booze, dependent on Garza to see to your safety.
You may activate your team's kill at night. [Redacted] Mafia Goons do not have any other abilities. [Redacted]
You win when the Town team no longer has the majority of the population.
Thor665 has been modkilled according to the rules stated before the game started:
8. Please do not edit or delete your posts no matter how stupid a mistake you made. This will get you modkilled. This is your only warning.
Because the rule breaking was not done maliciously or with the intention to disrupt the game, he will not receive a modkill penalty to his league score.
It is now Night 3. Do not post. Night ends in 2 days (October 4th).
This is New York's East side. And a former grifter named Frank Niles lives somewhere around here. The Homicide squad wants to talk to him, if they can find him. Nothing to it, boys. Just spot this guy out of half a million people. Lady, ever see a man, looks like this? Mister, ever see a man, looks like this? You go home, you go to bed. You get up, you start all over.
At the 10th Precinct...
"Gonna be a tough day today gentlemen, but don't let that slow you down."
"What's so tough about today? We're close to cracking the Dexter case wide open aren't we?"
"Sure, but Lt. Muldoon didn't show up this morning. We think he might have been attacked last night."
"Muldoon!? You're right; that is tough."
"Only one way to find him..."
__________
Voxxicus didn't report in this morning. His files are now available to the investigative squad in the hopes that he may be found on patrol before it's too late.
[MTGS] Voxxicus Town Gunsmith Detective Lt. Dan Muldoon
You are Detective Lieutenant Dan Muldoon, an Irishman with a calculating mind. With your Homicide squad, you ask the questions at the crime scenes and the squad takes notes and commands. You are the driving force behind the Jean Dexter case, hammering out the lies your suspects throw at you and sending your policemen on the beat to do the legwork. You work in the 10th precinct in the Chelsea district of New York. A rather shabby building on a rather shabby street. Acts of violence in Manhattan are reported to the third floor of this building. Because here, rather quietly, the Homicide squad does it's work.
Due to your reputation, rank, and keen mind, you may investigate a target each night to determine whether they have a killing ability.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
Player List:
[MTGS] DYH
[MTGS] Cyan
[MS] Nachomamma8
[MS] Vierni
It is now Day 4. You may post. With 4 alive, it's 3 to lynch.
Deadline is October 11th at 11:59pm CST.
I'm gonna do this! MS just exploded completely, so this is officially the only game of mafia I'll be playing until its glorious return. I'm not ready to be done with this game, but, as a start, let's see Cyan's case against me and his response to my case against him.
Pretty much everyone on M:tGS seems to agree Cyan is defTown.
And if this is the reason why we ultimately lose, I'm still going to complain a lot and be very very sad because this is not #YOLOville Nacho. Did you do Voxxicus's recommended reading over the night?
Although, and this is the cloud bird being perfectly honest, I was kind of hoping you would enter voting me so that I could make this the official theme of this LyLo.
(I'm now reminded of just how long it's been since I've been in an ensemble.)
The first assumption here is, again, that there is no way that DYH can be scum. If that's wrong, then treat all of the below as a valid criticism of your play and proceed to feel incredibly bad about yourselves.
1) Vote record D2. Literally sheeping me. Admittedly, cloud bird has cottony wings and clumping to me is likely a highly pleasurable experience. While both Nacho and Cyan were on the desCoures wagon at some point, Cyan went off to disregard the Town justification on Cyouni (to be fair, I can sympathize) while Nacho kept his vote where it counted toward the mislynch.
2) Dat quote I just brought up is a scumslip.
3) Both scum defended Nacho when it came down to it. Given that neither of the four players I'm looking at really went after each other (except Cyan-Nacho) I'm inclined to believe that their goal wasn't to bus.
Quote from Thor 407 »
I am not a fan of the Nacho push.
It lacks even more in the "case" department than either the Iso or Cyourni wagons and yet people are acting like there is something there.
wts, over?
Quote from Fate 415 »
What the litearall hell is this talk of a NACHO wagon?
1) While neither Nacho nor Cyan interacted at all with Thor and Fate and vice versa, Nacho's stances were a lot more risky to take as scum - notably here
Quote from Nacho 188 »
i really really don't want to do it, but vi/llamarble/thor are all town and it looks like fate rolled scum again :/
Vote: Aggressive Fate
please make me regret this vote as soon as I make it
Inadequate. You fail to explain why that would make her (?) scum. One would assume that Vi would post like Vi as scum as well.
MY experiences with Vi are with Vi-town, not Vi-scum. When Vi is not feeling like Vi, he's feeling different from my town baseline of her and that's a problem.
There are weird side things to say about this and it could be faked but this seems odd for scum to say.
3) Calling me solid Town at what's basically LyLo is a gigantic (and probably highly unfavorable) risk to take as scum.
Nacho's vote on Iso is bad. Like completely miserably awful. A couple of his posts prior to that aren't much better. Other people from MS, is this normal behavior for him? I still think that Iso is scum, but I would probably switch wagons if Iso weren't already at L-2.
This looks like something I would post as scum.
2)
Quote from Cyan 149 »
And Iso's 'trying a new playstyle' argument doesn't sound sincere. Mostly because, from what I can tell, he is only trying it for this series of 3 games? Call me skeptical that someone would abandon the playstyle that they love for only a few games.
Bullcensored.
3)
Quote from Cyan 433 »
And if Nacho needs one more vote on him to claim, then someone should put a vote on him. There is no doubting that he deserves it.
"deserves"
4)
Quote from "Cyan 599" »
Re: Thor: It's true that he has been posting differently, but now that we know that he is in Vietnam and is posting from an iPad, it makes sense. I don't think that further suspicion is warranted at this time.
In the mean time, more people should be looking at DYH. His attitude toward Thor is dubious at best. He was all up in arms about how Thor's attitude sucks, and then when Thor's posting demeanor changed, DYH used that as a point against him too. This smacks of opportunism. He didn't even bother trying to figure out WHY Thor was suddenly acting so differently. This isn't even consistent with DYH's stance of accepting Iso's 'well I'm trying a different playstyle'.
See also:
Quote from DYH 604 »
Wow, is that completely incorrect.
I've known Thor has been in Vietnam posting from an iPad, he mentioned it quite some time ago - and, as I pointed out - was posting like he did previously while on said iPad. So I don't believe the 'tone shift' is directly related to that. It is, in my opinion - as I clearly expressed in a very recent post - tied to his inability to just disregard the attack on him now that Kami/DGB is involved.
5)
Quote from Cyan 635 »
Do you guys ever actually make detailed, organized cases on each other? I understand why people want to vote for Thor, but that is largely thanks to the effort of DYH(even though I disagree with the case).
But you seem very determined to have people vote for AF, and I have no idea why.
Also, KOL still seems like the scummiest person from MS. And it's not particularly close.
Defense of both Thor and Fate simultaneously was a surprisingly common thing in my readthrough. Cyan went on to vote Fate when it was fairly safe to do so and it looked like his own site had caught him.
6)
Quote from Cyan 816 »
Are you asking me who you should vig? I would recommend KoL, assuming that we are lynching Iso. Otherwise, I would recommend Iso.
with
Quote from Cyan 836 »
I agree with Voxx. Doc is a role that appears in virtually every MTGS game. If no one counterclaims KoL, then he is it.
To put these posts in perspective, the Doctor claim was post 777. Given the knowledge in 836, why say KoL should be vigged?
7)
Quote from Cyan 915 »
So...to summarize follow up events. Iso clarifies that he is not, in fact, counter-claiming llamarble. He just completely thinks that Llamarble is scum based on role flavor. And apparently said role flavor is not particularly concrete. Llamarble then partakes in an exercise where he helps Iso legitimize/make sense of this belief.
Honestly, what is going on this game? We're like 6 hours from deadline, and there is almost no solidity as far as whom we should be lynching.
Everyone is unvoting Iso, but somehow they are not voting Llamarble instead. This makes zero sense. If you believe that Iso is town, you should clearly be voting the person that he flatly stated is scum.
"If you believe Iso is Town, then you should be following this logic onto this claimed confirmable power role even though I just said that logic is idiotic."
8)
Quote from Cyan 994 »
I'm not convinced that any scum was going to leave themself sitting on Iso's wagon once it became completely obvious that AF was getting lynched(yes yes, I get the irony of me making this statement). I certainly don't think that this is sufficient valid reasoning for voting Voxxicus.
I mentioned this at the time, but I believe Cyan is projecting his own notions of what looks scummy onto other people here. Of note, the only people other than Cyan whose alignments are in question right now were at the beginning of the Cyan wagon, so this comes across as Cyan trying to justify himself.
I don't think Cyouni makes sense as a scumbuddy the way Fate was talking about the slot. That looks like a chosen mislynch for the day to me.
Two people came in and were voting Cyouni. You say it's the 'chosen mislynch' for the day. Which of them is the scum pushing the mislynch, then? You say that, and then vote...DYH.
The logic doesn't mesh, at all. You think Cyouni is town, you think scum are pushing the lynch on him, but you aren't making any attempt to determine the alignment of Vi/Nacho - who are the only people voting/pushing for that lynch.
Reconcile this.
This seems like the best post I've seen all game. I'm greatly looking forward to seeing it answered.
This post looks exactly like something I would post, right down to the verbiage. As scum.
10)
Quote from Cyan 994 »
I found(and still do) Thor and Vierni to be thoroughly town,
Quote from Vierni 1028 »
I wouldn't know it reading this page.
But aside from asking if you have strong reads at all,
Quote from Cyan 1033 »
Things change? You're still my leading town candidate, but not much beyond that. llamarble is clearly town, but that's not really a 'read'.
I know I'm skimming for a select few peoples' posts but I missed where Thor became a (benign) scum read.
11)
Quote from "Cyan 1040" »
Interesting. DC's analysis is pretty impressive, from an objective standpoint. If I wasn't me, I'd probably think I was scum.
Though I will note that he makes more direct conclusions in that post than he is typically prone toward.
Both lines of this post should be struck with lightning.
12)
Quote from Cyan 1040 »
I also think that, at most, one of DYH/Thor is scum. DYH hinted toward a power role yesterday, and should be expected to deliver on that at some point. If I were him and I had relevant information to share, I'd consider doing so today, because he seems fairly unlikely to survive tonight now that the Doc is already dead.
Dat fishing. If I were a power role and I had relevant information to share, I would consider not being an imbecile about it.
13)
Quote from Cyan 1151 »
If I were scum, I would never have bussed AF there. I gain absolutely nothing out of doing so(you could even argue that I look worse because I gave up the Iso case that I had been on all day). But I did it anyway, because it was the correct play, as town.
Beyond what I said earlier about Cyan projecting what he thinks is scummy, the last two words tip that he's being way too self-aware.
14) Pushing No Lynch and Voxxicus+DYH on Day 3 looks like "I know I can't get away with actively PUSHING for it, but I'd like to float the idea" and when called on it responded with "but I would never do this as scum" and see my earlier thoughts about having some very neatly defined boundaries for what he would do as scum.
With a little research, I suspect I know what Cyan is recalling [a scenario from Redux 2], and that reaction feels genuine and leads me to believe his knee-jerk vote of me is "I-don't-give-a-****" Cyan mode rather than scum-Cyan mode. He's playing completely different from that game or Survival Horror (where he was scum in both).
This coincides nicely with his acceptance of play styles I think he'd otherwise find reprehensible (Thor, Fate), insulting his own "team" (MTGS players), and being inattentive, which is actually most similar to Cyberspace where he was town.
Unvote [Cyan]
Considering the names you mentioned as examples here, please revisit this, DYH.
2)
Quote from Cyan 503 »
The frustration in Iso's last post seems sincere to me, I'm willing to give him a bit more time to see what happens. Unvote, Vote DYH
I'll be in trouble if this wagon doesn't work out, I don't have any other strong scum reads at this moment.
This is a rather self-aware thing to say, and not a good one to admit as scum.
3)
Quote from Cyan 1232 »
My two strongest scumreads are DYH and Thor. This is obviously problematic, because it seems extremely unlikely for them to be scum together.
I need to back and reread Vierni and Nacho and see their various interactions.
There is always the argument that scum wouldn't forget who the claimed clears and power roles are. However, Voxxicus did survive the Night. Who knows if Thor was around to direct the kill or say "sounds good" or even "Voxxicus should only be one-shot with this kind of balance" (Voxxicus never suggested otherwise IIRC).
4) Cyan's reaction to the opening of Day 4 is not entirely implausible as Town if he was planning to vote Nacho. However, casting a vote would be entirely harmless unless it was on himself, unless DYH is scum.
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Continued dodge.
Handwave.
Attempt to justify power equality of rolecop to roleblocker.
If you think you see a specific excitement, then ask me about it. If you think I dodged something, ask me about it. But I didn't,a nd I actually doubt you are really doing more than faking the scumhunting here.
===================================
@Godfather theory
The reason I really decided to rob myself of sleep and log in here was I had this consideration as I was driving back to my hotel.
The GF theory actually doesn't make a lot of sense.
Seriously.
Okay, let's just say, for the sake of lulz, that I am scum, I have a partner who is a godfather, and we decided to kill the Vig rather than the cop because the Vig was a bigger threat to us.
For that to be legit, that means that we had to think two things;
1. That I was a decently unlikely cop investigation (which, if Nacho wasn't scum he would tell you that I have an abiding issue with cops when i am scum and hold them responsible for a large amount of my scum losses because I find I am a high priority cop investigation)
2. The Godfather would have to look scummy enough to be a likely Vig shot while still having a decent chance of being investigated as compared to me.
So, you have Thor, one of the *most* suspected people in the game.
You have Cy, also one of the most.
DYH...apparently a chosen mislynch for scum and pretty painfully not Thor's scumbuddy.
And you have...who...who is next there?
Vi was thought of as town by most. So was Cyan. So was Nacho. So, you have scum with a set of three optimal targets for the Vig and Cop *none* of which are good for them in any combination.
So why kill
Gah, i actually managed to answer that myself in my own head.
No theory late at night.
Whatever, i *still* think it's dumb to suggest this was a gambit at least with the idea of getting a theory GF investigated unless you think the theory GF is DYH - which makes no fething sense at all.
Functionally theory scum killed the Vig because theory non-limited Vig is a threat if they want a win in lylo via speed hammer - so actually the Vig kill makes sense in a universe without Godfathers (but if they have a roleblocker it also makes no sense *unless the Cop is lying*
So, at least I submit my theory roleblocker argument is equal to the theory GF one, if not provably superior.
That said, the theory GF thing is still a derp reason to lynch me, and if I waas scum I totally would have killed a cop and *also* wouldn't have been demanding clarification of the soft claim mush he did yesterday.
Actually - that does work.
Okay, say I'm on a scum team with a GF and someone claims "some variety of investigative" Why would I bother fishing for clarification? With a GF in play I already know he's an investigation role that will not hurt our GF, so I don't need to know anything else about him, I'd stay quiet.
Instead scum Thor who *isn't* the GF paints a bulls-eye on himself for the cop?
that makes no sense.
Boo-yah! Theory at late night in your faces!
Thor is conf. town.
Voxx is conf. scum.
You may sheep me now.
And then tomorrow pay attention to Nacho and actually make him answer my questions that he's hand waving today.
this is what I want answered, Thor.
or is all of this posting still coming from a pad?
And also explain why me ignoring specific points of yours is a huge problem (considering that we have discussed pretty much all of them to some extent) while Cyan ignores specific points from me for no reason and you know that I have a tendency to be dismissive of things (demonstrated in your first post of the game and me ignoring the hell out of you in No Lynching town).
To answer Thor's question - for better or worse, Nacho's last-minute push is kind of working. I'm kind of lost on what Cyan is doing as Town at this point, because what I see is someone who disappears as soon as someone asks a hard-hitting question.
(All these smileys and no .)
Misrep.
You were called out for suggesting the case on you was dumb and saying why, and I said I did the same sort of stuff and knew you did too.
That's different from posting "laughs at case" which is what you did. That's *avoiding* discussing why the case is dumb and praying that people presume it is provably dumb without you having to try to explain why it is so.
The case is not dumb, and I caught you, and then caught you trying to dodge dealing with it.
Brilliant, whether true or not it is immaterial to the points I have raised.
I agree that Cyan is derping out.
So is Voxx.
So is DYH.
I'm pretty sure that is not *all* scum.
I'm guessing you're intentionally refusing to address the Voxx issue till he un-derps. Okay, but I will want your input thereafter. If you're not, then I'd like you to address that point now.
The Nacho point I still want you to field though is this;
Why would Nacho, who is suggesting the game balance is perfectly fine (and feel free to weigh in on if you think roleblocker = rolecop balance wise) would use the phrase "it's not too horrible" to describe the setup. That is coming from a mindset of someone aware the setup is "horrible" but is arguing that it is not *too* horrible. That i a different mental place than he has presented in any of his other commentary about the setup, and came from, I submit, a legit mental slip wherein he's aware he's presenting a false stance but is trying to soften it through anyway.
Please address that, because the language is screwy, and Nacho's response to being called on it looks awkward too - I think that is a direct hit.
If you're so convinced I'm scum that you're going to blind sheep Voxx, why *not* just theorize based off that like Vi would like you to?
Is there a problem with presenting me as scum and Voxx as town in a theoretical world? Hurm...shocking that...
Methinks we have another disagreement in proper play.
Apparently here the plan is "stop all posting in lylo and...just sort of...stare..."
Hm.
I'm still pretty sure we're looking at Nacho as Thor's buddy.
Cyan's been lacking aggression, confidence and activity this game compared to his town games, but... also compared to his scum games. I think it's almost certain that we're looking at mildly apathetic Town!Cyan here, because he just... hasn't made any pushes that would make himself look favorable. The 'whatever maybe I was wrong about Fate' thing just isn't something I can see Cyan doing as scum - he'd have made sure he looked better than that with Fate the clear lynch at that juncture.
Kind of like Thor did, with blatantly refusing to vote Fate, rather than toss a weak finishing vote on him.
Hm.
I can see Vi scum, but Vi/Nacho was a better fit than Vi/Thor.
From a purely behavioral standpoint, ignoring interactions, Nacho's early game play is by far the scummiest thing in the game - when you add on Thor doing the whole 'Yeah, Voxx is itching my paranoia to switch, but nahh, Nacho is just like that', and the Cyouni wagon opposite the Nacho wagon on D1 (with Thor, Fate and Nacho all pushing Cyouni, with 4-5 town on Nacho), it's just the best fit, and I'm pretty confident in it.
I realize there's some confirmation bias at work, but his case on Cyan just feels like setting up a mislynch, tomorrow.
I know that's not exactly the pinnacle of analysis, and I can't pinpoint it, but it just feels manufactured and dishonest. Vi, please take the time tomorrow and look back through Nacho's posts in the early game - the case I made on him, his dismissal of it, and then him Town!Posting after I called him out on the comparison between this game and House Mafia.
Thor's obviously trapped scum that is taking the only avenue of attack he can, and isn't even worth acknowledging.
Trying to pass a basic setup on this site off as only having two power roles, and no investigative ones is just...comical.
My guess would be rolecop + bulletproof, but that still isn't a great counter to the gunsmith + doctor.
It's also possible Thor was confident enough to not roleblock me, and try to push the mislynch on me today. Which obviously would be a terrible idea, but plausible if he hadn't done any research on setups over here, I guess.
But it ultimately just...doesn't matter. The only people that know what the scum have available are the scum themselves (And Zionite).
I'll pull up some Nacho things in the morning, and am fine with moving forwards after I do that.
@Vi, Cyan - if either of you have any questions for me, fire away, either on my play, or on the Nacho read. But please re-read in depth over the night phase/next day.
Also, trying to paint a Thor/Nacho team is pretty ruddy laughable at this stage. All he's got for that is "Thor and Nacho are aware of each other's meta and react thusly"
By that logic his defense of Cyan is just as incriminating - it's an illogical connection to make. But it *sounds* like scumhunting, which is the point.
Frankly I think he's doing it because I pegged the scumteam right and he's just admitting he knows that nacho looks like scum, but oh gawrsh guys, can't we lynch Thor first.
Rather than, y'know, screaming loudly about how he has a guilty on me and I need death immediately.
And lso, that was his 'don't risk Thor self-hammer' spiel he had to get out?
I don't buy it, it's weak analysis and functionally all of it is about stuff that happened after he asked for a lack of L-1.
He did that all to fake not looking scummy, and hasn't aided the town at all with the post.
i predict no one notices.
Don't sleepwalk this people.
If Cyan is behaving unlike he normally does like either alignment, why does that make him town? What do you think of his stance changes? Do you really think that they are likely to be coming from town? I seriously don't understand why he wants to save actually sorting the game out or discussing anything until tomorrow. Do you?
I'll wait until you pull up your Nacho things to respond to them.
Players needed to lynch: 4
Thor665 - 2 - Voxxicus, Cyan - (L-2)
Voxxicus - 1 - Thor665 - (L-3)
Players not voting: DYH, Nachomamma8, Vierni
What does this argument even mean? You seem to be arguing that you couldn't all 3 be scum because you were all anti-Cyouni Day 1. But that makes fully zero sense, so I assuming you must mean something else and Im just not getting it.
And the MTGS side is not 'derping out'. Voxx claimed a scum investigation on you. I believe him(although his lack of activity and DYH' complete lack of even bearing here are making me waver again). What else is there? I mean, obviously there is another scum, but why do we need to try to figure that out now? And if you're NOT scum, no one really believes you and the game is over, so the same point remains.
So instead, I think Thor felt he had more to fear from site-mate, and universally considered town, Llamarble who had indicated he wasn't going to shoot during yesterDay. (He lied, but that wasn't revealed until the day start.)
This meant they could kill Llamarble overnight without risk of dying, which might have seemed safer than shooting the MTGS mystery-investigative-not-a-cop-role who didn't seem to be looking their way. Devil you know versus the one you don't.
Also, there was zero chance Llamarble was going to be mislynched - that possibility at least existed for Voxx.
@Cyan: I understand why you feel the way you do (why waste the effort if this ends up being a gambit), but it makes better sense to get your opinions on the table today with more people to evaluate and discuss them than it does to wait on that off-chance.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
If the three of us are scum our vote advances over the course of the day make no sense. We all hard pushed both Iso *and* Cyourni constantly and with each other, and I blatant defended both of my buddies (self-meta; doesn't happen) and Fate, the lulz busser defended both of his scumbuddies and didn't bus anyone.
Also, today, I apparently decided halfway through my death spiral to finally start distancing as opposed to, y'know, at any other time.
Tell me again how that group looks remotely like scumbuddies except if you buy into Voxx's awkward bus of Nacho and fake claim on me?
Voxx's "lack of activity" reads scummy to you.
And you say that it is not "derp out" from the MtGS crowd because it is legit to go quiet...
Whut?
That doesn't make sense, either one side or the other of that equation is legit, not both. Either it's fine to go quiet, or Voxx going quiet is suspect, whassup?
That's cute and all.
Justify why Thor, with a Godfather buddy, would act confused by the cop claim, since he'd already know;
1. That there was an investigative alignment role
and
2. That he would rather it target his buddy and not him presuming they don't kill it, so it doesn't benefit to cast doubt on the cop.
You can't.
Therefore it strongly suggests
1. There is no GF Thor scumbuddy
2. Thor is not scum inherently
Both cast doubt on why you're buying Voxx's claim in lylo at this point.
Look out of the tunnel for a second man, this isn't crazy talk and just because I'm a **** at times doesn't mean I am always pulling scum role PMs or that I can't spot a fake claim...though it helps when I'm the target, natch, but the logic doesn't pan out.
Meh, I certainly think Fate busses though, whether it is lulzy or not, so my point stands as presented, but I'm not actually claiming the lulz bussing method - e's just an aggressive busser in my opinion.
So maybe I need to make less fun of the meta here.
Maybe...
I hate having to have conversations from the wrong side of the activity cycle.
Already asked for this post to be deleted, yadda, yadda.
So I freaked out and sent Zionite a PM asking for it to be taken care and also alerted the mod in question over at MS.
Then I started thinking about Zionite's spotty reaction times, so I sent in a general alert about the post.
Then I was just like "well, worst case is, if I edit it here I get booted from this game, but worst case if I don't edit it is I potentially spoil stuff in the other game"
So, basically I decided this was the lesser evil and am taking my odds on it.
I blame a bit of personal stupidity, my derp hours right now, and a few other distractions - but that's what went down.
Sorry if I gak this one up, and early apologies to any theory replacement having to deal with this derp situation as a replacee.
I hope I don't need to be replaced, though throw myself on the mercy of whatever the rules are here for that one. But, the edit was due to idiocy, and you at least have my word that no game information relevant to *this* game was lost.
I'm just going to re-read the entire game. There has to be some way to make one side of this situation look better. There just has to.
The only way the setup works with the night actions and PRs it requires is if I am one of the worst players around who decided to paint a target on myself by checking how well the claimed investigative role works on Godfathers...because, y'know, with a GF as my scumbuddy I'd have doubts about that *and* would want to attract attention to me and not him.
Yet, oddly, making sense is that Voxx is fakeclaiming scum and Nacho is his buddy selling a tainted bill of goods.
Shocking.
Feel free to sheep any century.
For added fun you can try to justify Thor/Fate possibly being a team.
Or Thor/Vi
Or Thor/Nacho
Or Thor/DYH
There's a reason i don't look like anyone is my scumbuddy.
It's because I don't have any scumbuddies.
--
Cyan, is it plausible for a game here to have just a Doctor and a Vig-of-sorts on the Town's side? I understand that some effort may have been made to match up to mafiascum balance, but evidently not a large one considering that the Role PMs everyone will be getting on the other site probably won't nearly be as flavorful. (Plus as mentioned before Role Cop is overkill against just Doc and Vig IMO, but clearly that's not a shared opinion.)
I don't think Roleblocker/Jailer makes sense as they would've blocked Voxx, or even KoL back on N1. Tough guy is an outside possibility, but I think Thor would've been inclined to agree on the No Lynch proposal, and B) that's a lot of killing power in a 12-player game with Llama's role.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
@Vi - gah, serious? He was setting up a claim *and* you think he clearly said he would target me and you still think the scum plan of Thor and his theory buddy of no one makes any sense at all? What you're saying is proving my point! Also, just because I can talk my way out of stuff as scum doesn't mean I stop talking when I am town - my case her is vastly more firm than the Voxx fake claim case that is sinking me, there's a reason no one has presented any supporting Thorscum evidence, and that is because it does not exist.
I got busy, sick, and a bit overwhelmed with RL things, and just haven't had the time to put a block of time into going back through the game like I wanted to.
@Vi - I can't see anything happening that would cause me to vote Cyan over Nacho if I were alive tomorrow. It goes Nacho > Vi > Cyan, to me - Cyan is possible scum, but Nacho is more likely. I do want to put up the 'why' behind it for you and Cyan to look at, before we go into night, but a basic re-read focusing on Nacho, and his interactions with Thor and Fate should cement it.
"Since I don't have any ability that might cause me to suddenly shift my read on a player."
I want to reach through my screen and throttle everyone in this game.
that is just a DISTANCING POST! He is only saying it to be all like 'TOTALLY NOT NACHO'S SCUM BUD!' There's a reason he's talking about reading the thread because it sound s generically town. There is no suggestion there of 'maybe I'll investigate this guy and just totally iron out an unbreakable opinion on him' type thing there. There's even a built in 'lulz, if I'm alive, because if I'm cop and right about GF and help lynch scum Thor...scum totally WON'T kill me!?!?!
I mean, that doesn't even begin to make sense.
If I flip scuma nd the game continues based off GF theory HOW WOULD HE POSSIBLY NOT GET KILLED!?!
Also, he's trying to set up info for you and Cyan, and NOT CONFIRMED TOWN DYH!?!
Gah!
You are all terrible at this.
But he's not even trying to build a town alliance of investigation today!
He is just twaddling along saying vague nothing and praying enough town vote me to push this thing through.
AND YOU'RE ALL LETTING HIM DO IT BECAUSE APPARENTLY NOT SAYING GAK DURING LYLO WITH A QUESTIONABLE INVESTIGATION IS ALL THERE IS TO THE GAME!
What is this?
What am I supposed to be working with here?
I'm right, you're blind, and I can't even get the time of day to so much as discuss the issue because "Thor is obv. scum...derp...because...there is a GF and that's why the cop was left alive and unroleblocked going into lylo with 50% of the living scum at risk...derpa!"
NEWSFLASH!
If I was scum I would have killed the cop and danced around yu feebs with ruddy impunity because scumhunting, and debate, and pressure are apparently things you don't even do.Yeah, for that I'd need some scumbuddy confirmed?
Bollocks.
1. Voxx is not actually working or talking like a town player who, if everything he's saying is true, will be assuredly dead tomorrow, and who also has to be 99% certain that DYH is town.
If you could just address that and ignore the rest, and pay more attention to the questions in 1381 that would be happy fun-times.
"So we've been looking for the guy for three days, and he just shows up with his hands palmed?"
"Maybe we should be thanking him for saving us the trouble."
"Or hanging him for wasting our time."
__________
Thor665 has given himself up to the police for his crimes and implication in the Dexter case.
Mafia Goon Peter Backalis
You are Peter Backalis, a small time burglar and alcoholic caught up in a larger conspiracy than you're used to. You're not a murderer, but Willie Garza talked you into it. Now you're in over your head and back on the booze, dependent on Garza to see to your safety.
You may activate your team's kill at night. [Redacted] Mafia Goons do not have any other abilities. [Redacted]
You win when the Town team no longer has the majority of the population.
Because the rule breaking was not done maliciously or with the intention to disrupt the game, he will not receive a modkill penalty to his league score.
At the 10th Precinct...
"Gonna be a tough day today gentlemen, but don't let that slow you down."
"What's so tough about today? We're close to cracking the Dexter case wide open aren't we?"
"Sure, but Lt. Muldoon didn't show up this morning. We think he might have been attacked last night."
"Muldoon!? You're right; that is tough."
"Only one way to find him..."
__________
Voxxicus didn't report in this morning. His files are now available to the investigative squad in the hopes that he may be found on patrol before it's too late.
[MTGS] Voxxicus
Town Gunsmith Detective Lt. Dan Muldoon
You are Detective Lieutenant Dan Muldoon, an Irishman with a calculating mind. With your Homicide squad, you ask the questions at the crime scenes and the squad takes notes and commands. You are the driving force behind the Jean Dexter case, hammering out the lies your suspects throw at you and sending your policemen on the beat to do the legwork.
You work in the 10th precinct in the Chelsea district of New York. A rather shabby building on a rather shabby street. Acts of violence in Manhattan are reported to the third floor of this building. Because here, rather quietly, the Homicide squad does it's work.
Due to your reputation, rank, and keen mind, you may investigate a target each night to determine whether they have a killing ability.
You win when the Mafia team is wiped out.
Deadline is October 11th at 11:59pm CST.
In the absence of any plausible suggestions of what can actually cause a false Gunsmith negative, DYH is off.
Pretty much everyone on M:tGS seems to agree Cyan is defTown.
For the sake of completeness, everyone with reads worth paying attention to on the mafiascum side (Nacho and Llamarble) vouch for me.
And because it's 4P LyLo, I can do this.
Vote: Nachomamma8 (L-2)
I'm ready to be done with this game.
I'm gonna do this! MS just exploded completely, so this is officially the only game of mafia I'll be playing until its glorious return. I'm not ready to be done with this game, but, as a start, let's see Cyan's case against me and his response to my case against him.
And if this is the reason why we ultimately lose, I'm still going to complain a lot and be very very sad because this is not #YOLOville Nacho. Did you do Voxxicus's recommended reading over the night?
Hmmm.
This is really not what I thought was going to happen, and now I have to wonder about you. Time to re-read some more things.
(I'm now reminded of just how long it's been since I've been in an ensemble.)
Separately, what does this site have against putting the last quote tag on nested quotes?
Unvote: Nachomamma8
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The first assumption here is, again, that there is no way that DYH can be scum. If that's wrong, then treat all of the below as a valid criticism of your play and proceed to feel incredibly bad about yourselves.
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Here's why we should lynch Nacho.
1) Vote record D2. Literally sheeping me. Admittedly, cloud bird has cottony wings and clumping to me is likely a highly pleasurable experience. While both Nacho and Cyan were on the desCoures wagon at some point, Cyan went off to disregard the Town justification on Cyouni (to be fair, I can sympathize) while Nacho kept his vote where it counted toward the mislynch.
2) Dat quote I just brought up is a scumslip.
3) Both scum defended Nacho when it came down to it. Given that neither of the four players I'm looking at really went after each other (except Cyan-Nacho) I'm inclined to believe that their goal wasn't to bus.
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Here's why we shouldn't lynch Nacho.
1) While neither Nacho nor Cyan interacted at all with Thor and Fate and vice versa, Nacho's stances were a lot more risky to take as scum - notably here
2) There are weird side things to say about this and it could be faked but this seems odd for scum to say.
3) Calling me solid Town at what's basically LyLo is a gigantic (and probably highly unfavorable) risk to take as scum.
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Why Cyan should be lynched:
1) This looks like something I would post as scum.
2) Bullcensored.
3) "deserves"
4) See also:
5) Defense of both Thor and Fate simultaneously was a surprisingly common thing in my readthrough. Cyan went on to vote Fate when it was fairly safe to do so and it looked like his own site had caught him.
6) with To put these posts in perspective, the Doctor claim was post 777. Given the knowledge in 836, why say KoL should be vigged?
7) "If you believe Iso is Town, then you should be following this logic onto this claimed confirmable power role even though I just said that logic is idiotic."
8) I mentioned this at the time, but I believe Cyan is projecting his own notions of what looks scummy onto other people here. Of note, the only people other than Cyan whose alignments are in question right now were at the beginning of the Cyan wagon, so this comes across as Cyan trying to justify himself.
9) This post looks exactly like something I would post, right down to the verbiage. As scum.
10) I know I'm skimming for a select few peoples' posts but I missed where Thor became a (benign) scum read.
11) Both lines of this post should be struck with lightning.
12) Dat fishing. If I were a power role and I had relevant information to share, I would consider not being an imbecile about it.
13) Beyond what I said earlier about Cyan projecting what he thinks is scummy, the last two words tip that he's being way too self-aware.
14) Pushing No Lynch and Voxxicus+DYH on Day 3 looks like "I know I can't get away with actively PUSHING for it, but I'd like to float the idea" and when called on it responded with "but I would never do this as scum" and see my earlier thoughts about having some very neatly defined boundaries for what he would do as scum.
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Why we shouldn't lynch Cyan:
1) Considering the names you mentioned as examples here, please revisit this, DYH.
2) This is a rather self-aware thing to say, and not a good one to admit as scum.
3) There is always the argument that scum wouldn't forget who the claimed clears and power roles are. However, Voxxicus did survive the Night. Who knows if Thor was around to direct the kill or say "sounds good" or even "Voxxicus should only be one-shot with this kind of balance" (Voxxicus never suggested otherwise IIRC).
4) Cyan's reaction to the opening of Day 4 is not entirely implausible as Town if he was planning to vote Nacho. However, casting a vote would be entirely harmless unless it was on himself, unless DYH is scum.