I haven't been following Standard all that closely, but when I looked at the SCG Open results from this weekend, I noticed something about the top 8: the number of rares and mythics seemed abnormally high.
Standard decks often run multiple rare lands and a few mythics, so those aren't surprising. What seems to be pushing the rare count to the extreme is the amount of efficient removal that is printed at rare instead of common and uncommon. Generally, cards like Lightning Bolt, Doom Blade, Duress, Path to Exile, Pyroclasm, and Oblivion Ring are among the most powerful removal spells around and are printed at common or uncommon.
Now, all of the good removal seems to be at rare: Mizzium Mortars, Detention Sphere, Anger of the Gods, Thoughtseize, Dreadbore, Chained to the Rocks, Hero's Downfall, etc. When most of the best threats are rare, all of the best lands are rare, and now the removal is rare? That seems like it leads to very unbalanced deck construction.
Is this a problem or not?
By the way, here is a quick break down of the SCG top 8 I mentioned:
W/R Aggro main
6 common
16 uncommon
25 rare
3 mythic
10 basics
This has been true for a long time now. Staple removal is moving up in rarity, the most efficient creature are put at rare so "they don't ruin limited" and of course the invention of planeswalkers, all of whom are at mythic ensure that standard is played with x-hundred dollar decks
I disagree with 99.9999% of these type of threads, but this one is actually legit. I miss the days when the other 14 cards in the pack mattered for constructed.
I agree. I buy my boosters, take the value, and then give away the rest. There are a lot if guys that play that do the same thing. Once I have my playset of commons and uncommons, I just give anything else away to my LGS or younger players that need more cards.
So it's not surprising that it is like that. It may have to do with Theros still being the newest set. I dunno though...
People at my local Fnm will literally give away All the nonrares from pretty much any pack they pull. Entry to FNM gets you 1 pack and lots of the time there will be a table with piles of commons up anyone who wants them. Even I have gotten in the habit of looking at the rare first when i crack a pack, because the rest usually doesn't attribute to much.
If it makes you feel better, arguably the best card in Mono Black devotion (Gray Merchant) is a common.
Quote from "FlopItOut" »
the most efficient creature are put at rare so "they don't ruin limited"
So because they don't want to ruin a format that a hefty number of people enjoy, you're crying foul because you have to pay some more for your Standard deck? You don't HAVE to buy singles if it's that bad. More people play the game, which means more people are going to want tournament winning singles now which means stores are going to charge more.
Also you have to look at WHY the removal is rare before you complain about some Hasbro conspiracy theory. Downfall and Dreadbore hit Planeswalkers, Detention Sphere can take down multiple cards at once, Mortars gives you the option of pinpoint cheap removal OR a board wipe, Abrupt can't be countered and hits any non-land 3cmc permanents for just a measly BG.
Compare your examples to their rare counterparts and you see why they are rare, because they are better, and better means they shouldn't be as common right? Thoughtseize > Duress, Hero's Downfall > Murder, etc.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Devotion is quiet boring mechanic that ruin mtg now. No one care what that creature do they care only mana symbol in its cmc. Quite ridiculous if you ask me.
If it makes you feel better, arguably the best card in Mono Black devotion (Gray Merchant) is a common.
So because they don't want to ruin a format that a hefty number of people enjoy, you're crying foul because you have to pay some more for your Standard deck? You don't HAVE to buy singles if it's that bad. More people play the game, which means more people are going to want tournament winning singles now which means stores are going to charge more.
Also you have to look at WHY the removal is rare before you complain about some Hasbro conspiracy theory. Downfall and Dreadbore hit Planeswalkers, Detention Sphere can take down multiple cards at once, Mortars gives you the option of pinpoint cheap removal OR a board wipe, Abrupt can't be countered and hits any non-land 3cmc permanents for just a measly BG.
Compare your examples to their rare counterparts and you see why they are rare, because they are better, and better means they shouldn't be as common right? Thoughtseize > Duress, Hero's Downfall > Murder, etc.
This is the problem. Right here. The idea that better=rare. It was not always the case, but it sure is now. Glad I don't play standard.
Removal got bumped up in rarity to make limited better
I don't get that, at all. How does increasing the rarity of cards make limited more rewarding? I mean, it's luck of the draw - you could either pull something decent or you could get an entire pack of garbage. All increasing the rarity of certain cards does is keep them out of the hands of more people.
With the introduction of "Mythics", naturally the other competitive cards will fall into the "Rare" category with the support cards falling under "Uncommon". This pretty much leaves no place for common cards except for very casual players like school children.
Bumping removal up doesn't make limited better. I find it to be much more frustrating when I open a sealed pool that has a single removal spell compared to how it was not too long ago. Removal is necessary to keep things like a turn 3 Polukranos, World Eater from ruining your day. I know you'll say that he's mythic and all but that hasn't stopped this from happening to me in 3 different sealed events. Staring at that and then seeing the Sip of Hemlock in my hand doesn't make me think, "Gee, limited is so great with these giant undercosted fatties and this horribly overcosted and inefficient removal." Would you think that way?
This is the problem. Right here. The idea that better=rare. It was not always the case, but it sure is now. Glad I don't play standard.
Yeah, I can't help but kind of agree with this. It used to be that back in the day that high complex=rare more often than not. They've definitely changed their philosophies on how rarity works since then. I remembered a time when my favorite cards to use were uncommons filled with efficient creatures and removal. Heck, I remember making pauper decks that did decently back in the day (thank goodness that red is still pretty friendly if you'd be on a budget).
I feel like I am bizarro world at the moment. Cards like Nightveil Specter and Desecration Demon being $10 and more is too much to take in. As soon I noticed I sold them off. This has got to be the slowest standard in years.
If it makes you feel better, arguably the best card in Mono Black devotion (Gray Merchant) is a common.
I'm not necessarily complaining about the situation. But I certainly can't say I'm happy about it either. I see pros and cons to both sides.
Compare your examples to their rare counterparts and you see why they are rare, because they are better, and better means they shouldn't be as common right? Thoughtseize > Duress, Hero's Downfall > Murder, etc.
I definitely disagree with this line of thought. Regarding Thoughtsieze, there is a long history of discard spells at common and uncommon, some quite powerful. Cabal Therapy and Inquisition of Kozilek are good examples. Raven's Crime is another that sees play in some decks.
With regards to pinpoint removal like Hero's Downfall, that's about as basic utility as you can get. "Destroy target X" has been common since Alpha. The fact it says "planeswalker" on the card is a poor reason to make it rare in my opinion.
That's all there is to it. Amazing What excuses the wizards apologists make up to sugar coat this greed.
They even turned duels of the planeswalkers into rubbish this year because it was too affordable
So . . . is it your belief Hasbro should become a not-for-profit company??? I sure hear a lot of people complain when a private company does something to either keep in business or make a profit. Besides the US gov, I don't know very many other organizations that strive to work at a constant loss.
Increasing the rarity of the cards has a purely business purpose. If it's just about making it "fun", then all cards would have been made into commons so it will boil down to deck building skills regardless of your financial capabilities.
Hasbro just wants you to buy more and more booster boxes from them.
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Standard decks often run multiple rare lands and a few mythics, so those aren't surprising. What seems to be pushing the rare count to the extreme is the amount of efficient removal that is printed at rare instead of common and uncommon. Generally, cards like Lightning Bolt, Doom Blade, Duress, Path to Exile, Pyroclasm, and Oblivion Ring are among the most powerful removal spells around and are printed at common or uncommon.
Now, all of the good removal seems to be at rare: Mizzium Mortars, Detention Sphere, Anger of the Gods, Thoughtseize, Dreadbore, Chained to the Rocks, Hero's Downfall, etc. When most of the best threats are rare, all of the best lands are rare, and now the removal is rare? That seems like it leads to very unbalanced deck construction.
Is this a problem or not?
By the way, here is a quick break down of the SCG top 8 I mentioned:
W/R Aggro main
6 common
16 uncommon
25 rare
3 mythic
10 basics
side
1 common
7 uncommon
7 rare
------------------
R/W Devotion
6 common
12 uncommon
27 rare
4 mythic
11 basics
side
4 uncommon
10 rare
1 mythic
------------------
Esper Control
2 common
7 uncommon
33 rare
11 mythic
7 basics
side
4 common
6 uncommon
1 rare
4 mythic
------------------
G/W Aggro
6 common
8 uncommon
24 rare
6 mythic
16 basics
side
6 common
3 uncommon
3 rare
3 mythic
------------------
B/R/W Midrange
1 common
3 uncommon
45 rare
5 mythic
6 basics
side
3 common
4 uncommon
6 rare
2 mythic
------------------
Mono-Red Aggro
18 common
12 uncommon
12 rare
18 basics
side
3 common
7 uncommon
5 rare
------------------
Mono-Blue Devotion
8 common
5 uncommon
18 rare
10 mythic
19 basics
side
2 common
4 uncommon
7 rare
2 mythic
------------------
Naya Control
6 uncommon
40 rare
9 mythic
5 basics
side
3 uncommon
12 rare
Emille, Seven-Sting Dancer Shalin Nariya
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
That B/R/W Midrange deck runs FIFTY rares and mythics in the main with 8 more in the side.
Its been particularly pronounced with how removal is printed at the moment. look at dreadbore, hero's downfall, mizzium mortars, detention sphere, abrupt decay etc
Niv-Mizzet Ramp 'n' Wheel
Godo: Strap him up and turn him sideways!
Considering how awesome Theros limited is I'm more than fine with this
Also this is a recent change so it might take a few years for WotC to figure out how to make more Constructed worthy un/commons that are not removal
So it's not surprising that it is like that. It may have to do with Theros still being the newest set. I dunno though...
It was not this bad for a while after the takeover.
It has gotten worse since the advent of mythics.
So because they don't want to ruin a format that a hefty number of people enjoy, you're crying foul because you have to pay some more for your Standard deck? You don't HAVE to buy singles if it's that bad. More people play the game, which means more people are going to want tournament winning singles now which means stores are going to charge more.
Also you have to look at WHY the removal is rare before you complain about some Hasbro conspiracy theory. Downfall and Dreadbore hit Planeswalkers, Detention Sphere can take down multiple cards at once, Mortars gives you the option of pinpoint cheap removal OR a board wipe, Abrupt can't be countered and hits any non-land 3cmc permanents for just a measly BG.
Compare your examples to their rare counterparts and you see why they are rare, because they are better, and better means they shouldn't be as common right? Thoughtseize > Duress, Hero's Downfall > Murder, etc.
I think it is a time now.
Devotion is quiet boring mechanic that ruin mtg now. No one care what that creature do they care only mana symbol in its cmc. Quite ridiculous if you ask me.
This is the problem. Right here. The idea that better=rare. It was not always the case, but it sure is now. Glad I don't play standard.
I don't get that, at all. How does increasing the rarity of cards make limited more rewarding? I mean, it's luck of the draw - you could either pull something decent or you could get an entire pack of garbage. All increasing the rarity of certain cards does is keep them out of the hands of more people.
Hasbro simply wants to make more money.
Wont be long before common and uncommons will never be seen in standard decks. 100% rares and mythics.
That's all there is to it. Amazing What excuses the wizards apologists make up to sugar coat this greed.
They even turned duels of the planeswalkers into rubbish this year because it was too affordable
aka Prey Upon
Yeah, I can't help but kind of agree with this. It used to be that back in the day that high complex=rare more often than not. They've definitely changed their philosophies on how rarity works since then. I remembered a time when my favorite cards to use were uncommons filled with efficient creatures and removal. Heck, I remember making pauper decks that did decently back in the day (thank goodness that red is still pretty friendly if you'd be on a budget).
I feel like I am bizarro world at the moment. Cards like Nightveil Specter and Desecration Demon being $10 and more is too much to take in. As soon I noticed I sold them off. This has got to be the slowest standard in years.
I'm not necessarily complaining about the situation. But I certainly can't say I'm happy about it either. I see pros and cons to both sides.
I definitely disagree with this line of thought. Regarding Thoughtsieze, there is a long history of discard spells at common and uncommon, some quite powerful. Cabal Therapy and Inquisition of Kozilek are good examples. Raven's Crime is another that sees play in some decks.
With regards to pinpoint removal like Hero's Downfall, that's about as basic utility as you can get. "Destroy target X" has been common since Alpha. The fact it says "planeswalker" on the card is a poor reason to make it rare in my opinion.
So . . . is it your belief Hasbro should become a not-for-profit company??? I sure hear a lot of people complain when a private company does something to either keep in business or make a profit. Besides the US gov, I don't know very many other organizations that strive to work at a constant loss.
It is very frustrating that cards like Hero's Downfall is a rare. Hero's Downfall is basically the Vizzerdrix of removal.
In saying that, i think Magic Gameplay is the healthiest it has ever been.
Swings and Roundabouts
Hasbro just wants you to buy more and more booster boxes from them.