(MODS: If this is in the wrong forum, I apologize in advance.)
Dear mtgsalvation participants,
I have 136 positive references, and was recently asked to trade by someone with 95 positive references. That's a difference of 41, so I asked him if he'd be willing to send first. He was quite turned off by this, and refused to trade with someone (me) who would make that request of someone with 95 references.
So, I'd like to get the low-down on trading etiquette. I was under the impression that the "fewer references send first" rule was always applicable, but it looks like I may have been wrong. Therefore, to avoid making this gaffe in the future, I ask you:
At what point does a person's positive references absolve him or her from having to send first? He had 95, so is it in the 100 range? Or perhaps over 50? Or am I right and he was wrong?
I prefer simul-send in most scenarios unless a guy has less than 20 trades or hasn't made a trade in the last 2 months. Also how long the guy has been on the site is a factor. If the guy has 22 trades and has been on this site for 4 years and makes a couple posts a day, he's probably not going anywhere and will want to maintain his reputation.
You asking the other guy with 95 itrader reference at 100%, certainly comes across as jerking him around.
That being said, just because someone has a high trade reference, it doesn't mean that person is fair, or easy to deal with or isn't a douche bag.
Above 50 is the threshold where you shouldn't have to worry too much about not getting your goods, at least in my eyes. It can take quite awhile to get to that amount of references on here.
I ask anyone with less than 35 refs to send first. I feel like beyond that people are generally here for good (I have been proven wrong on this though). I also ask that anyone with negative refs to send first but I generally simusend with anyone else.
I've had somebody with <10 more references than myself ask me to send first, when we're both in the +hundreds I'm with the other guy on this one, it's close enough to 100, why not simul-send.
There's no "rule" its just a basic social etiquette.
If you are over 10 refs unless your doing a trade thats over like 100$ asking for anything other than simulsend is unnecessary or just paranoid.
I think if you are over about 50 refs the number becomes irrelevant. You can ask for him to send first because you have an irrelevant amount of refs more than him but your just going to come off as being paranoid, or worse untrustworthy yourself.
Also, I like the idea of Bronson's (who coincidentally I did a ~300$ simulsend trade with) about asking someone with negative feedback to send first. That makes sense.
*another justifiable exception is if the guy has only been on MTGS for like a couple months AND has lowish refs.
I think it honestly depends, and isn't as cut and dry as the # of refs. Keep in mind that I only have like ~30 refs, so my scenario might just be too different.
Others have hit on some of the big ones - How recently has he traded? Does he have any negative feedback?
Another item for me is how valuable the trade is. The more $ involved in the trade, the more stringent I am likely to be on the ref rule.
I would agree that once you get beyond a certain point (for me its 35, for some its 50), then simul-send should be fine. Someone with 95 references that are 100% positive isn't likely to screw you. No point in risking angering someone with that level of trading feedback.
Why does how recently they have traded matter that much? I mean if someone has the cards they need and dont trade for a couple months after a release whats the harm?
Why does how recently they have traded matter that much? I mean if someone has the cards they need and dont trade for a couple months after a release whats the harm?
Because if they are suddenly making big money trades after being disappeared for a few years. you have to question their intentions and how much they value their reputation.
Because if they are suddenly making big money trades after being disappeared for a few years. you have to question their intentions and how much they value their reputation.
I can see a few years being different, but less than 6 months just seems like splitting hairs.
Original poster here; thanks to everyone for the responses so far.
I would've simul-sent if he had asked me to do it. And yes, I'll admit that I'm a little paranoid, simply because I've been burned in the past.
I had thought that asking the question has an added utility of gauging the person's attitude based on his or her response, but apparently I was socially in the wrong after all.
So, it looks like simul-sending is the general rule once someone has earned between 35 and 50 positive references, depending on the higher-referenced trader's personal preferences. That's good to know; thank you.
Also, the trade was for slightly under $10, so I guess that added to his displeasure, . . . right?
Because if they are suddenly making big money trades after being disappeared for a few years. you have to question their intentions and how much they value their reputation.
On top of that, I ran into a situation on another forum (and almost got ripped) where a long standing member with a high trader rating who was no longer active had apparently sold his account to a known ripper who then proceeded to set up a ton of trades valuing in the hundreds with people.
I've always wondered why the ref rule doesn't apply in the Buy/Sell section. I can understand that people selling want their money right away, but it sucks for those of us who have spent years building up our itrader rating through trades and sales when some new person with 0 refs walks in and you have to send first to them if you want to make a deal with them.
On top of that, I ran into a situation on another forum (and almost got ripped) where a long standing member with a high trader rating who was no longer active had apparently sold his account to a known ripper who then proceeded to set up a ton of trades valuing in the hundreds with people.
I've always wondered why the ref rule doesn't apply in the Buy/Sell section. I can understand that people selling want their money right away, but it sucks for those of us who have spent years building up our itrader rating through trades and sales when some new person with 0 refs walks in and you have to send first to them if you want to make a deal with them.
Mainly because ~95% of users use PayPal as there payment option and if something isn't right you can file a report with PayPal and easily get your money back (which is also why we highly don't recommend the gift option). I would never pay first with any other method than PayPal.
I think the ref rule mainly comes down to a gut feeling. I may be fine simusending with someone with few refs if it's a small trade and on the opposite I may ask someone with a higher number of refs to send first. Just remember who you've traded with and how they conduct themselves when making judgment calls. Being friendly will always help
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Dear mtgsalvation participants,
I have 136 positive references, and was recently asked to trade by someone with 95 positive references. That's a difference of 41, so I asked him if he'd be willing to send first. He was quite turned off by this, and refused to trade with someone (me) who would make that request of someone with 95 references.
So, I'd like to get the low-down on trading etiquette. I was under the impression that the "fewer references send first" rule was always applicable, but it looks like I may have been wrong. Therefore, to avoid making this gaffe in the future, I ask you:
At what point does a person's positive references absolve him or her from having to send first? He had 95, so is it in the 100 range? Or perhaps over 50? Or am I right and he was wrong?
Thanks in advance for setting me straight.
The Great Creature Token Project
I prefer simul-send in most scenarios unless a guy has less than 20 trades or hasn't made a trade in the last 2 months. Also how long the guy has been on the site is a factor. If the guy has 22 trades and has been on this site for 4 years and makes a couple posts a day, he's probably not going anywhere and will want to maintain his reputation.
You asking the other guy with 95 itrader reference at 100%, certainly comes across as jerking him around.
That being said, just because someone has a high trade reference, it doesn't mean that person is fair, or easy to deal with or isn't a douche bag.
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If you are over 10 refs unless your doing a trade thats over like 100$ asking for anything other than simulsend is unnecessary or just paranoid.
I think if you are over about 50 refs the number becomes irrelevant. You can ask for him to send first because you have an irrelevant amount of refs more than him but your just going to come off as being paranoid, or worse untrustworthy yourself.
Also, I like the idea of Bronson's (who coincidentally I did a ~300$ simulsend trade with) about asking someone with negative feedback to send first. That makes sense.
*another justifiable exception is if the guy has only been on MTGS for like a couple months AND has lowish refs.
Others have hit on some of the big ones - How recently has he traded? Does he have any negative feedback?
Another item for me is how valuable the trade is. The more $ involved in the trade, the more stringent I am likely to be on the ref rule.
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Because if they are suddenly making big money trades after being disappeared for a few years. you have to question their intentions and how much they value their reputation.
I can see a few years being different, but less than 6 months just seems like splitting hairs.
I would've simul-sent if he had asked me to do it. And yes, I'll admit that I'm a little paranoid, simply because I've been burned in the past.
I had thought that asking the question has an added utility of gauging the person's attitude based on his or her response, but apparently I was socially in the wrong after all.
So, it looks like simul-sending is the general rule once someone has earned between 35 and 50 positive references, depending on the higher-referenced trader's personal preferences. That's good to know; thank you.
Also, the trade was for slightly under $10, so I guess that added to his displeasure, . . . right?
The Great Creature Token Project
Think about it, depending on the distance between you you're asking him to wait potentially extra weeks to recieve the cards he traded for.
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The Great Creature Token Project
On top of that, I ran into a situation on another forum (and almost got ripped) where a long standing member with a high trader rating who was no longer active had apparently sold his account to a known ripper who then proceeded to set up a ton of trades valuing in the hundreds with people.
I've always wondered why the ref rule doesn't apply in the Buy/Sell section. I can understand that people selling want their money right away, but it sucks for those of us who have spent years building up our itrader rating through trades and sales when some new person with 0 refs walks in and you have to send first to them if you want to make a deal with them.
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Mainly because ~95% of users use PayPal as there payment option and if something isn't right you can file a report with PayPal and easily get your money back (which is also why we highly don't recommend the gift option). I would never pay first with any other method than PayPal.
I think the ref rule mainly comes down to a gut feeling. I may be fine simusending with someone with few refs if it's a small trade and on the opposite I may ask someone with a higher number of refs to send first. Just remember who you've traded with and how they conduct themselves when making judgment calls. Being friendly will always help
XXXX
Modern
URTwinRU R.I.P.
EDH
WUGRoon of the Hidden RealmWUG