Questions similar to this have been posted in the past, but I wasn't able to find a satisfactory answer in them, so here goes:
I control an Omniscience and am casting Petals of Insight repeatedly to generate an arbitrarily large amount of storm, which I declare to be three hundred million. I then cast Brain Freeze on my opponent, intending to mill him out to win the game. At this point, my opponent informs me that he has an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn in his deck. How do we determine the ending game state within a reasonable time frame? Specifically, how many cards are in his graveyard, and in what order?
This is different than other "infinite mill" combos in that Emrakul interrupts the milling process (Brain Freeze) because it happens three cards at a time instead of all at once.
Worth noting is the fact that even if I won't kill directly by milling him, I want to see if I can mill him to low enough cards that he'll draw the Emrakul and be unable to kill me before decking out naturally.
I have an imperfect solution that I've been told doesn't quite work within the rules, so I'll wait to see what you guys think before I propose it.
Worth noting is the fact that even if I won't kill directly by milling him, I want to see if I can mill him to low enough cards that he'll draw the Emrakul and be unable to kill me before decking out naturally.
It's important to note that you will NEVER kill directly by milling; they don't lose until forced to draw a card from an empty library.
you do the milling 300 million times as you've declaired. in the end, you still cannot mill him out because he has emrakul... in a legal tournament. mill him 300 million times... as long as you do it in 40 mins.... in the end. its a draw since he has emrakul.
im not a judge or what, but its the way i see it.
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I suspect that if you do this play in a tournament, you'll be issued a game loss unless you and your opponent accept to draw the game.
The play itself is legal, but you can't shortcut to a defined game state and if you attempt to play it out that's by definition Slow Play
...this isn't correct because there's no loop involved; it's simply resolving a whole lot of spells. There's nothing optional so this is just a lot of actions that take a lot of time.
The correct response was given by Studoku; call the judge at the tournament where you're playing. Whatever s/he says is what you'll end up doing.
I'm also a little unclear as to why this situation would end up as a draw. Both players can agree to draw a game, and maybe that's what they would end up doing, but there's nothing about this situation that would make that necessary.
Well, without any more cards involved, this wouldn't have a defined board state, most judges would determine a random amount of repetitions to be actually executed as a shortcut as more repetions than enough to flip the whole deck in the graveyard are completely random, it's irrelevant from the deck order standpoint if you resolved 100 or 100 thousand brainfreeze copies, anything is possible either way.
Unless you make it clear for the judge that you'd actually expecting something to happen so you could react, this would be an ok solution other than issue a draw game.
I've seen some similar situations handled in such a way.
If you have, for example, something that can actually force a draw at instant speed, eventually in those million repetitions, Emrakul would be revealed as the latest card of the graveyard, then in response to the trigger, you make them draw the card from the empty library and win on the spot, this would be a real problem... lol.
Specially if the situation you're waiting for happen to take a long time to actually happen.
This is a situation that can't be easily shortcutted as there are to many variables and by this point there isn't actually a loop that needs processing.
Studoko has given as much of an answer as can be given Call the judge at your event over and let them sort it out.
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I control an Omniscience and am casting Petals of Insight repeatedly to generate an arbitrarily large amount of storm, which I declare to be three hundred million. I then cast Brain Freeze on my opponent, intending to mill him out to win the game. At this point, my opponent informs me that he has an Emrakul, the Aeons Torn in his deck. How do we determine the ending game state within a reasonable time frame? Specifically, how many cards are in his graveyard, and in what order?
This is different than other "infinite mill" combos in that Emrakul interrupts the milling process (Brain Freeze) because it happens three cards at a time instead of all at once.
Worth noting is the fact that even if I won't kill directly by milling him, I want to see if I can mill him to low enough cards that he'll draw the Emrakul and be unable to kill me before decking out naturally.
I have an imperfect solution that I've been told doesn't quite work within the rules, so I'll wait to see what you guys think before I propose it.
I believe that's what I'm trying to do now...? I was under the impression that several qualified judges frequented these forums.
It's important to note that you will NEVER kill directly by milling; they don't lose until forced to draw a card from an empty library.
im not a judge or what, but its the way i see it.
EDH - UWGrand Arbiter Agustin IV
UBW Oloro, Ageless Ascetic
Modern - Mono U tron / Polymorph / NFTW (ninja for the win)GR tron GR
Buy All the Dual Lands!!!
Buy All the fetches!
Create tons of EDH Decks!!!
Eat Nothing but Oats!! (LOL, not true)
Train MMA!!!
Marry My girlfriend!!!
Get her Pregnant only Once!
Teach my Son/Daughter Sports and magic cards!!!
Continue my legacy son!!!/Daughter!!
...this isn't correct because there's no loop involved; it's simply resolving a whole lot of spells. There's nothing optional so this is just a lot of actions that take a lot of time.
The correct response was given by Studoku; call the judge at the tournament where you're playing. Whatever s/he says is what you'll end up doing.
I'm also a little unclear as to why this situation would end up as a draw. Both players can agree to draw a game, and maybe that's what they would end up doing, but there's nothing about this situation that would make that necessary.
When in doubt, call a judge.
Objectivist here. Hit me up to talk philosophy.
Unless you make it clear for the judge that you'd actually expecting something to happen so you could react, this would be an ok solution other than issue a draw game.
I've seen some similar situations handled in such a way.
If you have, for example, something that can actually force a draw at instant speed, eventually in those million repetitions, Emrakul would be revealed as the latest card of the graveyard, then in response to the trigger, you make them draw the card from the empty library and win on the spot, this would be a real problem... lol.
Specially if the situation you're waiting for happen to take a long time to actually happen.
Studoko has given as much of an answer as can be given Call the judge at your event over and let them sort it out.
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I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
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