I was wondering if people thought there could be a chance Charybdis and Scylla would make it in as creatures? I was also thinking of the Titans making it in as creatures?
I was real happy with this set because I've wanted a Cerberus and a TRUE Chimera for a while and got exactly what I wanted! Also got a mono-green legendary Hydra! How awesome is the flavor of this set?
Well there are chances for everything, but considering the fact that Charybdis was a whirlpool, it would be pretty hard to make it into a creature. And Scylla was basically a Hydra, So it's representation might even be Polukranos.
As for the titans, I'm gonna divide the answer to fit three cases.
1. If you meant a reprint of the m11 and m12 titans, I 'm pretty sure WotC said they will never reprint them.
2. If you meant ANY card referencing any titan, we were given Titan of Eternal Fire.
3. If you mean a mythology based Titan, equal in power to the gods, whose role would be to exact revenge upon the world. I 'd have to say no. Because to print another All-powerful eldrazi-esque unique cycle of cards with such an important role would demand its own storyline, and currently we are in a "Mortal vs God" story. Maybe in a revisiting to Theros at some point in the future.
So most likely we 're just gonna get a couple more giants like Titan of Eternal Fire.
Well there are chances for everything, but considering the fact that Charybdis was a whirlpool, it would be pretty hard to make it into a creature. And Scylla was basically a Hydra, So it's representation might even be Polukranos.
No, no, no, and NO.
Charybdis was not a whirlpool. The whirlpool was her sucking in and out water trice daily. Originally she was a sea nymph (I.e. a Naiad), and the daughter of Poseidon, tasked with flooding the land. To stop her from drowning the world, Zeus turned her into a gigantic sea monster. In M:TG terms, she would likely be represented by a legendary Kraken of Leviathan, most likely the latter.
As for Scylla, she was not a hydra, although her monstrous form shares a single similarity (Multiple heads). Originally, she too was a sea Nymph (Naiad), but she was the daughter of Phorcys, a sea titan from the generation of titans previous to the Olympians and thus the grand-child of Gaea, much like the Olympians. A minor sea god named Glaucus fell madly in love with her, and she fled onto land where he could not follow. So he went to Circe to get a love potion that would make her fall in love with him. Unfortunately, Circe fell in love with Glaucus and when he rebuffed her, she became mad with envy against Scylla. So Circe took a vial of powerful poison and poured it into the secret pool where Scylla bathed, turning the latter into a hideous monster with six heads, each with three rows of teeth, twelve legs, and a body comprised of various monsters including continuously barking dogs. She would likely be represented as a Legendary Horror or Nightmare.
Let's not forget that the most important part of such a representation, would be to emphasize on the dynamic of their coexistence, and the dilemma they posed to the travelers. Thus they would both have to be depicted on one card, like they did with the three Fates. (So maybe it would have to have two devastating effects, and your opponent would choose one of them upon it's entry.) But can two entirely different creatures be printed on one card?
1. Blue/Green or Blue/Black creature that represents both. If we consider that Odysseus had to choose between losing some men or losing his entire ship, maybe it could be something like a massive defender with "At the beginning of each combat, any player may sacrifice a creature. If no player does, ~ can block any number of creatures this combat."
Or maybe "~ can block six creatures each combat. Monstrosity [whatever]. When ~ becomes monstrous, destroy all attacking creatures without flying."
2. Two different creatures that each say, "When [this creature] ETB, search your library for a creature named [other creature], put it into your hand, and shuffle your library." But that's a lot of card space to spend on a not-that-interesting ability. I prefer the first.
Thanks Krishnath for clearing up to everyone the origins of these two creatures. They were some of my favorite more obscure mythological creatures. Got some good input, appreciate the posts guys/gals!
I didn't even realize that one of the new Giant creatures they made was a Titan, thanks for pointing that out! I always have thought they could have been a Giant Elemental creature type though, especially since the one Titan they do have looks like a Fire Elemental of sorts.
Well here's to hoping these more obscure creatures make it into one of the next sets!
BTW google Scylla and Charybdis and see the many different ways people have interpreted the looks of these two creatures. One of the many reasons I like these two obscure myths.
I am expecting a The Rack / Black Vise dynamic where if you get them both out (cards in hand/whatever) you have to chart exactly the right course or one of them will hurt you.
Although I love how the actual answer in the Odyssey is just "Scylla is better cause she eats some dudes but doesn't sink your boat."
1. Representations of the monsters themselves. As mentioned I wouldn't be surprised if this hasn't been incorporated into creatures we have already see.
2. Representation of their appearance in the odyssey where iirc Odysseus must sale through a narrow passage where Scyalla is on the cliff and reaches down and Charybdis is in the middle.
Possible a sorcery that either taps all creatures or sacrifices 2 attackers?
Again is I remember my Odyssey correctly the monsters appeared while they where sailing to hades for some reason. So could tie in very nicely with the Journey to Nyx flavour.
But then Odysseus had to pass them again, when Charybdis is better because he could evade it by clinging to a tree, while Scylla would surely eat him.
Exactly. The implication was that with a ton of skill and luck you could essential surf around the rim of Charybdis's currents and ride the momentum out unharmed but one false move would kill your ship and everyone on it. The first time around Odysseus had to sacrifice some of his crew members for everyone's good and the second time he had nothing to lose and desperately wanted to get back to his wife and son.
I see Scylla and Charybdis card offering your opponent a choice, something like "Choose a permanent target player controls. That player chooses one - he or she sacrifices that permanent; or he or she chooses four permanents at random, then sacrifices them." A choice between a certain loss of something and an uncertain loss of everything.
I do like the idea of two separate cards that each have an okay effect by themselves but when used in conjunction becomes stronger than the sum of its parts. Maybe making one big pictures when placed next to each other with a ship having problems sailing between the two of them.
I like the choice angle as well... "At the end of each turn, return all creatures that could have attacked but did not to their owner's hands" and "Exile one attacking creature each combat phase"?
Let's not forget that the most important part of such a representation, would be to emphasize on the dynamic of their coexistence, and the dilemma they posed to the travelers. Thus they would both have to be depicted on one card, like they did with the three Fates. (So maybe it would have to have two devastating effects, and your opponent would choose one of them upon it's entry.) But can two entirely different creatures be printed on one card?
Since they could SO EASILY AND OBVIOUSLY (:rolleyes: How is this even a serious question?) be done as really any number of legendary hydras, krakens, leviathans, elementals, etc etc etc, in a block full of such things, I think it's more likely we'll get some sort of mythical or legendary Punisher-type card but maybe one that's more like the Quest enchantments we saw in Zendikar. Litereally, a quest (curse?) aura where the target has to make some awful choice every turn and it ratchets up counters toward some outcome...like removal of the aura, i.e. you survived the quest, just like Odysseus.
Maybe.
I think the flavor resonance (hence, value) in doing these is far outweighed by the dilemma aspect of 'Scylla & Charybdis' more than just another pair of big derpy blue sea monsters b/c they showed up in the Odyssey.
Charybdis, as depicted in the 1997 film adaptation of The Odyssey, is perhaps the most terrifying thing I saw as a child.
The recent film Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters took the same concept for it. The movie doesn't look great but I'd watch it just for Charybdis.
I think Magic's Scylla and Charybdis should not be on the same card. Each is too iconic on its own to not have their own cards. But I do think they should have some blatant synergy together.
2BB Scylla
Creature - Beast
First Strike
6: Monstrosity 6
Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage to a player, and CARDNAME is monstrous, that player sacrifices a creature unless he or she discards two cards.
3/5
2UU Thassa's Charybdis
Enchantment Creature - Leviathan Horror
CARDNAME isn't a creature unless it's monstrous.
Islandwalk
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player has two or fewer or five or more cards in his or her hand, put the top six cards of that player's library into his or her graveyard.
8: Monstrosity 13 - When CARDNAME becomes monstrous, put all creatures your opponents control on top of their controllers' libraries, third from the top.
0/0
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I hope that if we do get a Scylla representation, it's a "Nymph Beast," due to the fact that she originally was a nymph that was transformed by Circe into a horrific creature.
Charybdis I feel should have the "Horror" type, maybe an Elemental Horror.
They should both be blue, or possible blue/black.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Everything falls apart. But living things fall apart in the most fascinating ways."
—Mowagh the Gwyllion, Fang Skulkin
Charybdis was not a whirlpool. The whirlpool was her sucking in and out water trice daily. Originally she was a sea nymph (I.e. a Naiad), and the daughter of Poseidon, tasked with flooding the land. To stop her from drowning the world, Zeus turned her into a gigantic sea monster. In M:TG terms, she would likely be represented by a legendary Kraken of Leviathan, most likely the latter.
As for Scylla, she was not a hydra, although her monstrous form shares a single similarity (Multiple heads). Originally, she too was a sea Nymph (Naiad), but she was the daughter of Phorcys, a sea titan from the generation of titans previous to the Olympians and thus the grand-child of Gaea, much like the Olympians. A minor sea god named Glaucus fell madly in love with her, and she fled onto land where he could not follow. So he went to Circe to get a love potion that would make her fall in love with him. Unfortunately, Circe fell in love with Glaucus and when he rebuffed her, she became mad with envy against Scylla. So Circe took a vial of powerful poison and poured it into the secret pool where Scylla bathed, turning the latter into a hideous monster with six heads, each with three rows of teeth, twelve legs, and a body comprised of various monsters including continuously barking dogs. She would likely be represented as a Legendary Horror or Nightmare.
Obviously Scylla and Charybdis will be legendary nymf mutants with bestow abilities that work very well synergetically.
2UU Thassa's Charybdis
Enchantment Creature - Leviathan Horror
CARDNAME isn't a creature unless it's monstrous.
Islandwalk
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player has two or fewer or five or more cards in his or her hand, put the top six cards of that player's library into his or her graveyard.
8: Monstrosity 13 - When CARDNAME becomes monstrous, put all creatures your opponents control on top of their controllers' libraries, third from the top.
0/0
I was real happy with this set because I've wanted a Cerberus and a TRUE Chimera for a while and got exactly what I wanted! Also got a mono-green legendary Hydra! How awesome is the flavor of this set?
As for the titans, I'm gonna divide the answer to fit three cases.
1. If you meant a reprint of the m11 and m12 titans, I 'm pretty sure WotC said they will never reprint them.
2. If you meant ANY card referencing any titan, we were given Titan of Eternal Fire.
3. If you mean a mythology based Titan, equal in power to the gods, whose role would be to exact revenge upon the world. I 'd have to say no. Because to print another All-powerful eldrazi-esque unique cycle of cards with such an important role would demand its own storyline, and currently we are in a "Mortal vs God" story. Maybe in a revisiting to Theros at some point in the future.
So most likely we 're just gonna get a couple more giants like Titan of Eternal Fire.
They're trying to hit all the famous mythological tropes, really.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Charybdis could work as an elemental.
No, no, no, and NO.
Charybdis was not a whirlpool. The whirlpool was her sucking in and out water trice daily. Originally she was a sea nymph (I.e. a Naiad), and the daughter of Poseidon, tasked with flooding the land. To stop her from drowning the world, Zeus turned her into a gigantic sea monster. In M:TG terms, she would likely be represented by a legendary Kraken of Leviathan, most likely the latter.
As for Scylla, she was not a hydra, although her monstrous form shares a single similarity (Multiple heads). Originally, she too was a sea Nymph (Naiad), but she was the daughter of Phorcys, a sea titan from the generation of titans previous to the Olympians and thus the grand-child of Gaea, much like the Olympians. A minor sea god named Glaucus fell madly in love with her, and she fled onto land where he could not follow. So he went to Circe to get a love potion that would make her fall in love with him. Unfortunately, Circe fell in love with Glaucus and when he rebuffed her, she became mad with envy against Scylla. So Circe took a vial of powerful poison and poured it into the secret pool where Scylla bathed, turning the latter into a hideous monster with six heads, each with three rows of teeth, twelve legs, and a body comprised of various monsters including continuously barking dogs. She would likely be represented as a Legendary Horror or Nightmare.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I doubt it. They're not in any Disney movies.
1. Blue/Green or Blue/Black creature that represents both. If we consider that Odysseus had to choose between losing some men or losing his entire ship, maybe it could be something like a massive defender with "At the beginning of each combat, any player may sacrifice a creature. If no player does, ~ can block any number of creatures this combat."
Or maybe "~ can block six creatures each combat. Monstrosity [whatever]. When ~ becomes monstrous, destroy all attacking creatures without flying."
2. Two different creatures that each say, "When [this creature] ETB, search your library for a creature named [other creature], put it into your hand, and shuffle your library." But that's a lot of card space to spend on a not-that-interesting ability. I prefer the first.
I didn't even realize that one of the new Giant creatures they made was a Titan, thanks for pointing that out! I always have thought they could have been a Giant Elemental creature type though, especially since the one Titan they do have looks like a Fire Elemental of sorts.
Well here's to hoping these more obscure creatures make it into one of the next sets!
BTW google Scylla and Charybdis and see the many different ways people have interpreted the looks of these two creatures. One of the many reasons I like these two obscure myths.
They were in Duck Tales.
Although I love how the actual answer in the Odyssey is just "Scylla is better cause she eats some dudes but doesn't sink your boat."
1. Representations of the monsters themselves. As mentioned I wouldn't be surprised if this hasn't been incorporated into creatures we have already see.
2. Representation of their appearance in the odyssey where iirc Odysseus must sale through a narrow passage where Scyalla is on the cliff and reaches down and Charybdis is in the middle.
Possible a sorcery that either taps all creatures or sacrifices 2 attackers?
Again is I remember my Odyssey correctly the monsters appeared while they where sailing to hades for some reason. So could tie in very nicely with the Journey to Nyx flavour.
But then Odysseus had to pass them again, when Charybdis is better because he could evade it by clinging to a tree, while Scylla would surely eat him.
Exactly. The implication was that with a ton of skill and luck you could essential surf around the rim of Charybdis's currents and ride the momentum out unharmed but one false move would kill your ship and everyone on it. The first time around Odysseus had to sacrifice some of his crew members for everyone's good and the second time he had nothing to lose and desperately wanted to get back to his wife and son.
I̟̥͍̠ͅn̩͉̣͍̬͚ͅ ̬̬͖t̯̹̞̺͖͓̯̤h̘͍̬e͙̯͈̖̼̮ ̭̬f̺̲̲̪i͙͉̟̩̰r̪̝͚͈̝̥͍̝̲s̼̻͇̘̳͔ͅt̲̺̳̗̜̪̙ ̳̺̥̻͚̗ͅm̜̜̟̰͈͓͎͇o̝̖̮̝͇m̯̻̞̼̫̗͓̤e̩̯̬̮̩n͎̱̪̲̹͖t͇̖s̰̮ͅ,̤̲͙̻̭̻̯̹̰ ̖t̫̙̺̯͖͚̯ͅh͙̯̦̳̗̰̟e͖̪͉̼̯ ̪͕g̞̣͔a̗̦t̬̬͓͙̫̖̭̻e̩̻̯ ̜̖̦̖̤̭͙̬t̞̹̥̪͎͉ͅo͕͚͍͇̲͇͓̺ ̭̬͙͈̣̻t͈͍͙͓̫̖͙̩h̪̬̖̙e̗͈ ̗̬̟̞̺̤͉̯ͅa̦̯͚̙̜̮f͉͙̲̣̞̼t̪̤̞̣͚e̲͉̳̥r͇̪̙͚͓l̥̞̞͎̹̯̹ͅi͓̬f̮̥̬̞͈ͅe͎ ̟̩̤̳̠̯̩̯o̮̘̲p̟͚̣̞͉͓e͍̩̣n͔̼͕͚̜e̬̱d̼̘͎̖̹͍̮̠,͖̺̭̱̮ ̣̲͖̬̪̭̥a̪͚n̟̲̝̤̤̞̗d̘̱̗͇̮͕̳͕͔ ͖̞͉͎t̹̙͎h̰̱͉̗e̪̞̱̝̹̩ͅ ̠̱̩̭̦p̯̙e͓o̳͚̰̯̺̱̰͔̘p̬͎̱̣̼̩͇l̗̟̖͚̠e̱͉͔̱̦̬̟̙ ̖͚̪͔̼̦w̺̖̤̱e͖̗̻̦͓̖̘̜r̭̥e͔̹̫̱͕̦̰͕ ̗͔̠p̠̗͍͍̱̳̠r̰͔͎̰o͉̥͓̰͚̥s̟͚̹̱͔̣t͉̙̳̖͖̪̮r̥̘̥͙̹a͉̟̫̟̳̠̟̭t͈̜̰͈͎e̞̣̭̲̬ ͚̗̯̟͙i͍͖̰̘̦͖͉ṇ̮̻̯̦̲̩͍ ̦̮͚̫̤t͉͖̫͕ͅͅh͙̮̻̘̣̮̼e͕̺ ͙l͕̠͎̰̥i̲͓͉̲g̫̳̟͈͇̖h̠̦̖t͓̯͎̗ ̳̪̘̟̙̩̦o̫̲f̙͔̰̙̠ ̹̪̗͇̯t͖̼̼͉͖̬h̹͇̩e͚̖̺̤͉̹͕̪ ͚͓̭̝̺G͎̗̯̩o̫̯̮̟̮̳̘d̜̲͙̠-̩̳̯̲̗̜P̹̘̥͉̝h͍͈̗̖̝ͅa͍̗̮̼̗r̜̖͇̙̺a̭̺͔̞̳͈o̪̣͓̯̬͙̯̰̗h̖̦͈̥̯͔.͇̣̙̝
Since they could SO EASILY AND OBVIOUSLY (:rolleyes: How is this even a serious question?) be done as really any number of legendary hydras, krakens, leviathans, elementals, etc etc etc, in a block full of such things, I think it's more likely we'll get some sort of mythical or legendary Punisher-type card but maybe one that's more like the Quest enchantments we saw in Zendikar. Litereally, a quest (curse?) aura where the target has to make some awful choice every turn and it ratchets up counters toward some outcome...like removal of the aura, i.e. you survived the quest, just like Odysseus.
Maybe.
I think the flavor resonance (hence, value) in doing these is far outweighed by the dilemma aspect of 'Scylla & Charybdis' more than just another pair of big derpy blue sea monsters b/c they showed up in the Odyssey.
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The recent film Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters took the same concept for it. The movie doesn't look great but I'd watch it just for Charybdis.
I think Magic's Scylla and Charybdis should not be on the same card. Each is too iconic on its own to not have their own cards. But I do think they should have some blatant synergy together.
2BB Scylla
Creature - Beast
First Strike
6: Monstrosity 6
Whenever CARDNAME deals combat damage to a player, and CARDNAME is monstrous, that player sacrifices a creature unless he or she discards two cards.
3/5
2UU Thassa's Charybdis
Enchantment Creature - Leviathan Horror
CARDNAME isn't a creature unless it's monstrous.
Islandwalk
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player has two or fewer or five or more cards in his or her hand, put the top six cards of that player's library into his or her graveyard.
8: Monstrosity 13 - When CARDNAME becomes monstrous, put all creatures your opponents control on top of their controllers' libraries, third from the top.
0/0
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
Charybdis I feel should have the "Horror" type, maybe an Elemental Horror.
They should both be blue, or possible blue/black.
—Mowagh the Gwyllion, Fang Skulkin
I like this since it fits with the probable blue colors for these scourges of the sea.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Obviously Scylla and Charybdis will be legendary nymf mutants with bestow abilities that work very well synergetically.
That might be the most flavorful thing in the entire game of Magic?
ELEMENTAL. HORROR.
Totally badass.
Not sure what I like about this so much but I do. Totally nails it.
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I would play this for the rest of time
When asking for if something was stolen on Kamigawa:
Have some irony: