Sorry for the card shortage in deck. I add the Spark E as it is in sense another lightning bolt. Though I think the ooze factor will be big and JUND will be in play. Here is the list.
Why is everyone worrying about Jund? It might be because I barely run any creatures in my build, but I've never personally had any issue with them at all; they've always been my best matchup.
Now merfolk, on the other hand... if someone has any advice on how to take them down, I'm all ears.
Sorry for the card shortage in deck. I add the Spark E as it is in sense another lightning bolt. Though I think the ooze factor will be big and JUND will be in play. Here is the list.
19 Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
29 Spells
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Skullcrack
2 Searing Blaze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lightning Helix
1 Thunderous Wrath
2 Shard Volley
15 Sideboard
2 Torpor Orb
2 Rain of Gore
3 Rakdos Charm
4 Hide // Seek
4 Blood Moon
Have you planned out your SB'ing strategy yet?
Your running many non-aggressive spells in your SB (which suggest that you plan on staying in top-deck mode for longer then you should when you board them all in), some of your SB lack synergy such as Rain of Gore with Lightning Helix and Blood Moon with 28% of your deck.
I personally don't like running 4x Deathrite Shaman and Grim Lavamancer without Bob since I feel that against decks like Pod, Affinity and RG Zoo you end up lacking for resources. (though other people on the forums seemed to have to work for them...)
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I was in a bit of a rush this morning. I will post up my plan and final list i took to FNM. I hope for 5 rounds there.
The biggest decks I am worried about are RWU and Pod.
Deck has speed and for fast aggro needs to be able to interact with creatures. Also blood moon is a multideck hoser. I do not want the SB to be more burn I want to it to stop archetypes or to slow them down so I can fire for the win.
As for Blood Moon and my mana... it is a turn three play... So 4 of the 10 none red cards go out level 6 none red cards... if I get DRS and keep him then I can mana fix by getting the color I need by removing fetch lands or lands I kill with shard volley. By my reckoning blood moon will slow the game down some what but the cards are in my fav against most archetypes...
What is our matchup against U/R delver like? I'm struggling a lot vs Scavenging ooze and their suite of counters (remand/leak/spell pierce). I get them to 2-5 life and run out of gas. Any sideboard options for this matchup in particular?
Hey guys. I'm new to this place, but I seek some help! I'm looking to build a bit of a budget deck, 80$ or less, and I'm interested in Red Deck Wins. I have no money for fetch lands, and I already own Lightning Bolts, Goblin Guides, a Blood Moon, and two Lava Spikes and at least one Relic of Progenitus. I am willing to spend on Vexing Devils, but not interested in Deathrite Shaman. I am interested in splashing in Black for Bump in the Night, Rain of Gore, and Rakdos Charm. The local card shop is sadly out of Smash to Smithereens, but there is one there at least. I also have two Defense Grid that might work, and Shattering Spree. What would you suggest I build for this before I commit to buy?
Advertising link removed. Warn given for solicitation. -Sasky
I don't like Defense Grid because you burn your opponent at the end of their turn very often and you don't want to hinder your ability to do that. So that card should be a no.
Hi, I've been playing this deck lately and I think it's soooo good again current meta (jund, jund, jund, jund, jund, jund, aff, pod).
I mean the mtgo list:
@Mordecai: The UR Delver matchup should be around 50/50, maybe a bit worse (in their favor). Remand is terrible against us, don't see the issue. Scavenging Ooze shouldn't be that bad if you don't run a lot of creatures. I don't think it's worth to dedicate sideboard slots to UR Delver, the deck really isn't that popular.
Overall, the strong presence of Deathrite Shaman/Scavenging Ooze means that Burn should play as few creatures as possible. Keldon Marauders, Spark Elemental and Hellspark Elemental are pretty much unplayable right now, and similar things apply to Vexing Devil.
I wouldn't say Vexing Devil is unplayable and on top of that Scavenging Ooze is fairly easy to take care of by frying it prior to the opponent being able to use his ability. My deck has DS, so it's easy to throw out stuff out of your graveyard to ensure SO has no creatures in graveyards to tap into to get counters. Actually, one could take out Vexing Devil and replace him with Grim Lavamancer, and have both DS and GL. That would definitely bring on the hurt against SO and Goyfs.
I often board out the vexing devils vs oozes and shamans, but I still like them in the main against most decks. in all my games of modern, I think maybe 3 times did my opponent choose to let it live. (because they had removal or a 4/4 or stronger to block with). in the other cases he was equivalent to a lava spike or better
It maybe luck, but usually someone who played the Ooze against me either didn't have removal or wasn't a good player, or it could just be I fry it with a bolt before it becomes a problem. Not sure though
Looking to make the switch from Goblins to Burn. While my Gobbies were awesome, the relied on each other to make the deck great. From What I have gathered reading the primer, Burn does not have that problem.
So, if you would not mind, please critique my deck list. This is mono red. All of the cards will be 4 of's.
Do you think I could get away with less land? The reason I am not running vexing devil is because I have found that people bolt the guy, path him, and other things when they let him stick. Instead, I'm using girm lavamancer, as many times I find I have cards in my graveyard from all the burn spells.
I run ash zelot over hellspark because there is a lot of graveyard interaction in my meta.
So Vexing Devil gets bolted, pathed and other things and Grim Lavamancer somehow dodges all that? If anything, Lavamancer is easier to kill than Vexing Devil.
Its something about a 4/3, it that screams at people "take me out now!" lol. For lavamancer, they usually let the dude sneak in for 2 or 4 before they decide its a threat, and by that time, I have my other dudes out.
If you think running vexing devil is a good call, I'll playtest it some more.
Let's do a quick rundown of the creatures in modern Burn:
Goblin Guide: obviously, this should be a four of in any burn deck.
Grim Lavamancer vs. Deathrite Shaman: I've come to the conclusion that Grim Lavamancer is a lot better, and I'll explain why. Essentially, these do the same thing: they do 2 damage for one mana. The differences are that DRS will virtually always have a target while Grim Lavamancer will not (though this does not happen nearly as often as you might suppose).
Yet, many people find it enticing to play DRS and not GL, and the reasons are obvious. Deathrite Shaman can produce mana; he can shrink Tarmogoyfs; exile Kitchen Finks; and prevent Snapcaster activations. While all these options seem appealing, I believe that they are actually traps.
First of all, Burn will usually not need the added mana production, and keeping a one-lander based on having DRS in your opener is a bad gamble. Shrinking Tarmogoyf is unlikely as we are constantly adding new sorceries and instants to the graveyard. Decks that play Snapcaster Mages will never ever let you untap with it. Exiling Kitchen Finks is nice, but to be honest that is what we play Skullcrack for; also, fetching an additional untapped shockland really isn't that appealing, and Pod may still deal with it.
Now, Grim Lavamancer dies to all the removal DRS dies to. He does, however, have some significant upsides. Vs. Affinity, he allows us to use our graveyard as crowd control against a deck that has no way to remove it game one. Vs. Tron, he buys us an additional turn against a resolved Wurmcoil Engine. Twin has to kill him or you can dispose of Deveiver Exarch with a single burn spell. Vs. Pod, he can shoot down mana dorks if he has to for some reason.
Spark Elemental, Keldon Marauders, Hellspark Elemental: These are basically all unplayable at the moment because of cards like DRS, Ooze, Tarmogoyf, Wall of Roots etc.
Vexing Devil: This card suffers all of the problems listed right above in addition to a few others. First of all, we should not understand Vexing Devil as a creature, but as a burn spell. If it does resolve (as a creature) that means our opponent can deal with it or does not care about for whatever other reason. Hence, the whole "dies to removal argument" applies to Vexing Devil much more strongly than to Goblin Guide/Lavamancer/Shaman.
Then, some math: This card has to deal its four damage 75% of the time on average in order to be as good as any of the other one mana burn spells, and I don't see that happening. Additionally, Vexing Devil is an awful top deck and an even worse "final" burn spell. You will find that in Modern you play a lot of games where you either kill them on your next turn or they will kill you on their next turn. In these situations, Vexing Devil will do exactly nothing, while a card like Shard Volley wins you the game. Vexing Devil is so bad because you allow your opponent to use his removal as healing salves, which otherwise only counterspells will do.
And for these reasons, the creatures I play in burn are 4 Goblin Guides and 4 Grim Lavamancers. To repeat: Deathrite Shaman is rarely significantly better than Grim Lavamancer. But when Lavamancer is better than Shaman, he's insane. If you don't believe me, playtest and then keep a tally of how many Lightning Helixes and Kitchen Finks you actually removed from your opponent's graveyard.
quoted for truth, with an addition: grim lavamancer can also kill a DRS sitting on the other side of the table
I apologize in advance if this has been covered but what are peoples opinions on Hell's Thunder? 1RR for 4/4 flying haste. I know it dies at end of turn but it has 4R unearth cost. I'm not as familiar with the meta game as I once was but I feel like flying in red could be relatively useful. I'm also throwing around splashing white or black for various cards but most notably path to exile or terminate as a true answer to big creatures that burn would require a 2 for 1. Also Purphoros is really fun. I doubt how viable he actually is but play a creature deal 2 free damage is kind of fun.
The problem with Hell's Thunder is that you are probably never going to unearth it between all the GY hate and a 5 mana cost that you are extremely unlikely to meet in a relevant fashion. If you want 4 damage guaranteed to hit the dome you are better off with Fist of the Firebrand.
I am not sold on the gg versus vd argument. I have lost games due to gg giving card advantage to a player. Also, if you run 18 lands and/or 3 colours drs is superior to glm. I in my brw deck I regularly us drs to produce mana. As down under suggested 2:1 to 3:1 is the right ratio of drs to glm.
I am still not sold on br or brw. Though, with the current meta and the rise of jund, I am going to remove enchantment hate from sideboard. Extremely few decks that make the top 8 run leyline of sanctity. With no need for enchantment hate smaller need for brw.
Being poor from other formats and not wanting to invest heavily into a format I end up not liking, I figured I'd take the good old cheap route, burn, to test the waters and figure out what I might want to use later down the road.
I figure there are lots of options available to burn. Where do I start?
I figure I'm going to need:
A handful of creatures (8-10)
Lotsa Burn spells (18-20)
General support cards like enchantments, planeswalkers, artifacts, etc. (4-6)
Draw power (4-6)
And probably 22 lands with a curve topping out at four. I'm inclined to use 4 Valakuts and have the remainder be mountains. Or just 22 mountains, since valakut enters tapped. Any advice?
I started playing Standard during Ravnica block, so any help with card suggestions would be grately appreciated.
Creature ideas: Grim Lavamancer
Shock every turn? Sure. Will I have the fuel necessary if I'm not playing fetches? Young Pyromancer
Red card advantage in the form of little 1/1s. Can get out of hand if left unanswered. Chandra's Pheonix
The 2/2 flying haste that keeps on giving. As long as it doesn't get exiled and I keep drawing burn, this thing will keep coming back for more. Makes a great target for cheap discard like Wild Guess. Guttersnipe
Seems a little slow. I'm inclined to pass on him, but he does bypass hexproofed players. Sideboard option for those guys maybe so I don't roll over and concede immediately.
And that's about all I know for creatures good with burn. Any suggestions would be helpful, either creatures that just do lots of damage for low mana or creatures that give me advantages while I'm burning.
SUPPORT
I'm unsure if this is even necessary, but hey, I can't think of a good reason not to. They act as curve toppers and allow me keep doing things instead of just being sad as I topdeck mountains. Chandra, Pyromaster
Drawing an extra card every turn seems pretty nice in a burn deck. Koth of the Hammer
Probably a more serious contender, as a two-of. I throw my mountains at them, then turn them into machine guns. Sweet. Pyromancer Ascension
Makes things hurt even more, but I'm not sure its what I want to be doing on turn 2. Pyromancer's Gauntlet
For the flavor.
And other storm style things that add mana to my pool and then Past in Flames it up. Shrug.
Like what the above peeps are talking about vexing devil, kinda agree with their reasoning, but what do u guys think about cutting the playset of vexing devil for an +2 Grim lavamancer and +2 Magma Jet?
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@Kylar: Sounds like a good idea, though you should note that once you do that, you have 16 spells with converted mana cost two.
To be honest, I still don't see the appeal of BRW. Boros Charm is nice, but that's about it. Lightning Helix is another two mana spell that merely negates the additional life loss of having to fetch an untapped Sacred Foundry. None of the sideboard cards are really necessary. Most of all, going BRW makes the deck lose consistency and makes the mana worse.
Also, if you want to play additional artifact removal in the board, play Shattering Spree. You already have single target artifact removal in the form of Rakdos Charm.
Lastly, don't play Clifftop Retreat. In the super-unlikely event that you draw two of them as your sole lands you have to mulligan, but what's more important is that you cannot keep really good one-landers (like double Goblin Guide on the draw) if this is your only land, and if you do play BRW, probably add 1-2 Marsh Flats.
People run BRW for white's enchantment removal, Leyline of Sanctity is a card that is very common in sideboard nowadays, if they have this card down on turn 1 is basically good game for a BR burn, but if your running white and least you still have some enchantment removal spells avaliable.
As for the lands, Mmmm still thinking about it.
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FIFY, with deck tags.
Why is everyone worrying about Jund? It might be because I barely run any creatures in my build, but I've never personally had any issue with them at all; they've always been my best matchup.
Now merfolk, on the other hand... if someone has any advice on how to take them down, I'm all ears.
Have you planned out your SB'ing strategy yet?
Your running many non-aggressive spells in your SB (which suggest that you plan on staying in top-deck mode for longer then you should when you board them all in), some of your SB lack synergy such as Rain of Gore with Lightning Helix and Blood Moon with 28% of your deck.
I personally don't like running 4x Deathrite Shaman and Grim Lavamancer without Bob since I feel that against decks like Pod, Affinity and RG Zoo you end up lacking for resources. (though other people on the forums seemed to have to work for them...)
Enjoy Standard, Modern and Music (also some Pauper, Momir, Gaming, Animations and Legacy)? Then visit my channel:Here
I was in a bit of a rush this morning. I will post up my plan and final list i took to FNM. I hope for 5 rounds there.
The biggest decks I am worried about are RWU and Pod.
Deck has speed and for fast aggro needs to be able to interact with creatures. Also blood moon is a multideck hoser. I do not want the SB to be more burn I want to it to stop archetypes or to slow them down so I can fire for the win.
As for Blood Moon and my mana... it is a turn three play... So 4 of the 10 none red cards go out level 6 none red cards... if I get DRS and keep him then I can mana fix by getting the color I need by removing fetch lands or lands I kill with shard volley. By my reckoning blood moon will slow the game down some what but the cards are in my fav against most archetypes...
Advertising link removed. Warn given for solicitation. -Sasky
Look this list that is in last page. I didn't ever play with that, but if it is work nice in MTGO it can be a begin point for you construct your deck.
Modern: Grixis DS ; UR Phoenix ; Storm ; Burn
Standard: MonoRed ; Ral Spells ; UR Phoenix ; Izzet Drakes
Commander: Locust God
I wouldn't say Vexing Devil is unplayable and on top of that Scavenging Ooze is fairly easy to take care of by frying it prior to the opponent being able to use his ability. My deck has DS, so it's easy to throw out stuff out of your graveyard to ensure SO has no creatures in graveyards to tap into to get counters. Actually, one could take out Vexing Devil and replace him with Grim Lavamancer, and have both DS and GL. That would definitely bring on the hurt against SO and Goyfs.
It maybe luck, but usually someone who played the Ooze against me either didn't have removal or wasn't a good player, or it could just be I fry it with a bolt before it becomes a problem. Not sure though
So, if you would not mind, please critique my deck list. This is mono red. All of the cards will be 4 of's.
16 lands
Do you think I could get away with less land? The reason I am not running vexing devil is because I have found that people bolt the guy, path him, and other things when they let him stick. Instead, I'm using girm lavamancer, as many times I find I have cards in my graveyard from all the burn spells.
I run ash zelot over hellspark because there is a lot of graveyard interaction in my meta.
What do people think about bloodstorm berserker?
Lavamancer gives lategame reach, Vexing Devil does not.
If I'd play a creature after GG & DRS, I'd certainly rather play Mancer and not VD.
Its something about a 4/3, it that screams at people "take me out now!" lol. For lavamancer, they usually let the dude sneak in for 2 or 4 before they decide its a threat, and by that time, I have my other dudes out.
If you think running vexing devil is a good call, I'll playtest it some more.
quoted for truth, with an addition: grim lavamancer can also kill a DRS sitting on the other side of the table
I am still not sold on br or brw. Though, with the current meta and the rise of jund, I am going to remove enchantment hate from sideboard. Extremely few decks that make the top 8 run leyline of sanctity. With no need for enchantment hate smaller need for brw.
I figure there are lots of options available to burn. Where do I start?
I figure I'm going to need:
A handful of creatures (8-10)
Lotsa Burn spells (18-20)
General support cards like enchantments, planeswalkers, artifacts, etc. (4-6)
Draw power (4-6)
And probably 22 lands with a curve topping out at four. I'm inclined to use 4 Valakuts and have the remainder be mountains. Or just 22 mountains, since valakut enters tapped. Any advice?
I started playing Standard during Ravnica block, so any help with card suggestions would be grately appreciated.
Creature ideas:
Grim Lavamancer
Shock every turn? Sure. Will I have the fuel necessary if I'm not playing fetches?
Young Pyromancer
Red card advantage in the form of little 1/1s. Can get out of hand if left unanswered.
Chandra's Pheonix
The 2/2 flying haste that keeps on giving. As long as it doesn't get exiled and I keep drawing burn, this thing will keep coming back for more. Makes a great target for cheap discard like Wild Guess.
Guttersnipe
Seems a little slow. I'm inclined to pass on him, but he does bypass hexproofed players. Sideboard option for those guys maybe so I don't roll over and concede immediately.
And that's about all I know for creatures good with burn. Any suggestions would be helpful, either creatures that just do lots of damage for low mana or creatures that give me advantages while I'm burning.
BURN
I've heard these are the staples.
So I'd guess four of each. Any others?
SUPPORT
I'm unsure if this is even necessary, but hey, I can't think of a good reason not to. They act as curve toppers and allow me keep doing things instead of just being sad as I topdeck mountains.
Chandra, Pyromaster
Drawing an extra card every turn seems pretty nice in a burn deck.
Koth of the Hammer
Probably a more serious contender, as a two-of. I throw my mountains at them, then turn them into machine guns. Sweet.
Pyromancer Ascension
Makes things hurt even more, but I'm not sure its what I want to be doing on turn 2.
Pyromancer's Gauntlet
For the flavor.
And other storm style things that add mana to my pool and then Past in Flames it up. Shrug.
DRAW
Hell if I know. Do I even need it? Would it be better to just have more burn?
Reforge the Soul? Maybe?
Wild Guess?
Manamorphose?
Faithless Looting?
Dangerous Wager?
Any and all help and/or criticism is appreciated.
Merged with Burn thread
-ktkenshinx-
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=485910
4x Arid Mesa
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Blood Crypt
2x Clifftop Retreat
6x Mountain
2x Sacred Foundry
Sorcery (12)
4x Bump in the Night
4x Lava Spike
4x Rift Bolt
4x Boros Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
2x Magma Jet
4x Skullcrack
Creature (10)
4x Goblin Guide
2x Grim Lavamancer
4x Vexing Devil
3x Rakdos Charm
4x Smash to Smithereens
1x Tempest of Light
3x Torpor Orb
2x Volcanic Fallout
2x Wear / Tear
Like what the above peeps are talking about vexing devil, kinda agree with their reasoning, but what do u guys think about cutting the playset of vexing devil for an +2 Grim lavamancer and +2 Magma Jet?
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU
People run BRW for white's enchantment removal, Leyline of Sanctity is a card that is very common in sideboard nowadays, if they have this card down on turn 1 is basically good game for a BR burn, but if your running white and least you still have some enchantment removal spells avaliable.
As for the lands, Mmmm still thinking about it.
Modern : Huh?
EDH : UBGW Thrasios / Tymna Combo UBGW // GRW Mayael Big Stuff GRW // GU Edric Timewalkers GU