Literally, the only differences I can see between Legacy and Modern Affinity builds is Legacy uses Tangle Wire, Ancient Tomb, and the Artifact Lands... Modern runs white to use Steelshaper's Gift and other non-artifact spells as well (Tempered Steel comes to mind)
Also false, unless you're talking about 2012 Affinity (the RW version), which did play 1-2 Gifts. Tempered Steel has always been a 0-of in Affinity.
Currently, Modern Affinity only plays a single basic Island.
Memnite is a 4X in EVERY affinity deck, and would be a 4X in any deck using Artifact lands...
Number of Memnites in recent GP T8 Affinity decks:
Justin Robb, Brisbane: 2
Wee Yuen Khor, Brisbane: 1
Alex Majlaton, Detroit: 2
Zvi Mowshowitz, Portland: 2
Paul Rietzl, Portland: 3
Please don't embarrass yourself further. Go read up some T8 decklists before spewing untruths about Affinity (this is like the fourth time you've done so already). Better yet, there's an Affinity Primer on this very forum, with a convenient FAQ section explaining why all the cards that you claim to be good (Tezz, Tempered Steel) actually suck.
There is the Sword of the Meek unban. That won't break the turn 4 rule and won't be slotted into BGx. It will also create a new control deck, which the format does need.
Yes. Good. People are finally starting to hear my posts. Sword of the Meek is easily the best unban for the format as it currently is. I understand that in a "vacuum" Preordain, AV, BB, and Troll seem like good unbans, but SotM is the only unban that will create a new archetype and actually shake up the format. I have tested SotM in various builds, and it is always very powerful against BGx, though not unbeatable, due to their hand disruption and ScOozes (NTM hate out the sb).
People argue "It will kill aggro!" No. Affinity can easily win before the combo even comes online, and Champion with a plating completely outraces it. Burn also can race the combo, many games are lost before the combo is found, assembled, and utilized. Those are the main top tier aggressive decks. Nacatl could come off simultaneously or three months down the line if all the zoo lovers (Lantern) feel the deck needs a boost, but I'm fairly certain that would be unnecessary, as the field would naturally be less midrange (a strategy that is inherently good against aggression).
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Why do you think that SotM would be good against BGx decks? Especially Jund would crush any ThopterFoundry deck, especially if it techs against it (which is pretty likely considering that the hate gainst SotM also works against Affinity).
In theory SotM control decks should absolutely crush Midrange decks because SotM gives infinite inevitability so once you set up the combo, they won't be able to keep up. The only thing is Abrupt Decay with an active Scavenging Ooze could be somewhat problematic, neither of these cards existed with SotM. But I think if SotM gets unbanned (which it won't as there are so many less offensive cards on the list) it has the potential of being oppressive because there are so many decks that just literally can't be an active Foundary + SotM.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
There is the Sword of the Meek unban. That won't break the turn 4 rule and won't be slotted into BGx. It will also create a new control deck, which the format does need.
Actually illness in the ranks, pulse, and decay say hi. I would say SotM unban would do as much to the format as GGT would. Same could be said for BB. Yeah I have changed my stance on BB, did some testing lately.
Quote from somekidonfire »
The solution is not banning cards, it is making them. Simple as that.
That option is too slow. The only way to realistically keep the meta in check is banning cards.
In theory SotM control decks should absolutely crush Midrange decks because SotM gives infinite inevitability so once you set up the combo, they won't be able to keep up. The only thing is Abrupt Decay with an active Scavenging Ooze could be somewhat problematic, neither of these cards existed with SotM. But I think if SotM gets unbanned (which it won't as there are so many less offensive cards on the list) it has the potential of being oppressive because there are so many decks that just literally can't be an active Foundary + SotM.
I'm curious, what might a SotM control deck look like? I'm pretty new to the format and I wanna know what this would look like if Sword was actually unbanned...
I'm curious, what might a SotM control deck look like? I'm pretty new to the format and I wanna know what this would look like if Sword was actually unbanned...
This is the quintessential Thopter Sword deck by LSV but there are other builds. There was Thopter Fae, Esper Teachings Thopter, and even Bant Thopter but I don't have those lists on hand.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
This is the quintessential Thopter Sword deck by LSV but there are other builds. There was Thopter Fae, Esper Teachings Thopter, and even Bant Thopter but I don't have those lists on hand.
That's pretty cool. It'd need a bit of work to fit into Modern even with Sword unbanned, but it's cool. Thanks for the link.
the thing is, SotM lists in modern have to play multiple swords and foundry's because of the presence of maindeck hate. However, overall I am fairly certain that Sword is the best unban for the format. With Thopter-Sword in the format, there will be a much more noticeable rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock sort of checks and balances system.
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the thing is, SotM lists in modern have to play multiple swords and foundry's because of the presence of maindeck hate. However, overall I am fairly certain that Sword is the best unban for the format. With Thopter-Sword in the format, there will be a much more noticeable rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock sort of checks and balances system.
Why do you think Sword is better than Preordain? Sword seems like a fairly narrow unban that would only enable one solid decklist. Preordain would benefit at least 3 decks (Delver, Storm, and Twin), pushing one from tier 2 to tier 1, one from tier 4 to tier 2, and one from a BGx beating into competitiveness. Also, Sword threatens to make other fringe aggro decks a lot less viable, including Soul Sisters, Tokens, Burn, and Gruul Zoo. Preordain almost definitely would just enable decks, not push others out.
In case I was unclear, this is not to criticize you or your idea as much as it is to challenge it.
Well I dunno if this really applies here or not, but I figure this should at least give some mindset into R&Ds mindset when it comes to testing cards for Modern:
Comment From Blake
Would development be willing to print new cards or cards from older sets in Modern Masters so that the cards can enter the Modern cardpool without going through Standard?
Aaron Forsythe: We talk about it, but without a lot of testing, it's kind of risky. We wouldn't want to introduce something risky and have to ban it. That would defeat the purpose. And we don't really have the manpower to test incremental additions to Modern.
Dunno how to interpret it, but I think the last line is really key to how R&D handle Modern.
Well I dunno if this really applies here or not, but I figure this should at least give some mindset into R&Ds mindset when it comes to testing cards for Modern:
Comment From Blake
Would development be willing to print new cards or cards from older sets in Modern Masters so that the cards can enter the Modern cardpool without going through Standard?
Aaron Forsythe: We talk about it, but without a lot of testing, it's kind of risky. We wouldn't want to introduce something risky and have to ban it. That would defeat the purpose. And we don't really have the manpower to test incremental additions to Modern.
Dunno how to interpret it, but I think the last line is really key to how R&D handle Modern.
If they changed the rules to something like this, it would be really difficult to explain what would be legal and illegal in modern. I am not really a fan.
Also its pretty obvious that Wizards can't easily test for formats other than limited and standard. The problem is that modern relies on WOTC to ban things because it doesn't have the answers that the eternal formats do.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: UWUW TronUW
Legacy: WDeath N TaxesW CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Well I dunno if this really applies here or not, but I figure this should at least give some mindset into R&Ds mindset when it comes to testing cards for Modern:
Comment From Blake
Would development be willing to print new cards or cards from older sets in Modern Masters so that the cards can enter the Modern cardpool without going through Standard?
Aaron Forsythe: We talk about it, but without a lot of testing, it's kind of risky. We wouldn't want to introduce something risky and have to ban it. That would defeat the purpose. And we don't really have the manpower to test incremental additions to Modern.
Dunno how to interpret it, but I think the last line is really key to how R&D handle Modern.
So they won't ever unban anything because they don't want to test it? How could they not have enough manpower?
Sword (like Valakut) would create an entirely new archetype. Preordain would merely strengthen existing tier 1 and 2 archetypes, and would not likely cause a major shift in the metagame. Ponder would be a better unban than preordain in that case, but it again would not create any new archetypes, just strengthen existing archetypes. That could be part of the reason why ggt is still on the banned list: it could be used in living end decks, thus strengthening an exist in archetype. In this format, thopter-sword must be built around to be able to be utilized efficiently.
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If they changed the rules to something like this, it would be really difficult to explain what would be legal and illegal in modern. I am not really a fan.
Also its pretty obvious that Wizards can't easily test for formats other than limited and standard. The problem is that modern relies on WOTC to ban things because it doesn't have the answers that the eternal formats do.
It's not a matter of "changing the rules," so much as a matter of the willpower to execute such a thing. It is easy to list under Legal sets Modern Masters, as people who play the format SHOULD be checking said list anyway when they first start.
@Tinfoil Hat: No, but we should not expect unbans really until after a longer period since the last banning. Like say at most expect an unbanning every 12-18 months after the last ban.
Sword (like Valakut) would create an entirely new archetype. Preordain would merely strengthen existing tier 1 and 2 archetypes, and would not likely cause a major shift in the metagame. Ponder would be a better unban than preordain in that case, but it again would not create any new archetypes, just strengthen existing archetypes. That could be part of the reason why ggt is still on the banned list: it could be used in living end decks, thus strengthening an exist in archetype. In this format, thopter-sword must be built around to be able to be utilized efficiently.
But Thopter Sword has a reputation of being arguably oppressive as it was part of one of the most monstrous combo decks in Extended. I don't think you can say that it is certainly safe as it really hasn't been tested in any reasonable capacity and its certainly a far more dangerous unbar than plenty of other cards on the list. And just because it allows a new archetype into the format doesn't mean its good for the format, we could unban Blazing Shoal, Dark Depths, Dread Return, Glimpse of Nature, and Hypergenesis and that would add 5 new decks to the format. And honestly I'm less scared of Dark Depths than I am of Sword of the Meek, Dark Depths is extremely fragile to disruption but its certainly too powerful for this format because 3/3's for 1 are too good.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Sword of the Meek does nearly nothing until turn 4. Anything after turn 3 is fair game. There are also more hate cards (at least 2 of which are mainboard in the most common deck) than for DD. Depths can WIN turn 3. Thopter Sword can gain a life and make a 2/3 on turn 3. Also, one of the key cards in ThopterSword decks was Chrome Mox, a card which is banned, and will likely never be unbanned. People with their adoration of aggro (for god knows what reason) are just afraid of a deck that has a good MID TO LATE GAME against the deck, so it's unsurprising that they want a one mana 3/3 off the banned list. I'll repeat, ONE MANA 3/3. As in, the most powerful 1drop aggressive creature IN THE GAME (yeah lackey is good, but that's because of synergy rather than aggression).
That is why the cat is banned. Just think about it for a moment.
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Sword of the Meek does nearly nothing until turn 4. Anything after turn 3 is fair game. There are also more hate cards (at least 2 of which are mainboard in the most common deck) than for DD. Depths can WIN turn 3. Thopter Sword can gain a life and make a 2/3 on turn 3. Also, one of the key cards in ThopterSword decks was Chrome Mox, a card which is banned, and will likely never be unbanned. People with their adoration of aggro (for god knows what reason) are just afraid of a deck that has a good MID TO LATE GAME against the deck, so it's unsurprising that they want a one mana 3/3 off the banned list. I'll repeat, ONE MANA 3/3. As in, the most powerful 1drop aggressive creature IN THE GAME (yeah lackey is good, but that's because of synergy rather than aggression).
That is why the cat is banned. Just think about it for a moment.
Jace, the Mindsculpter at best gives you an extra card on turn 4, that doesn't seem that exciting. The reason why both of these cards are good are because they can win the game by themselves and bury your opponent in card/resource advantage in the late game. And in fact the Thopter Sword decks had an even to slightly unfavorable matchup with Zoo decks because unlike Jund, Zoo can actually kill Control decks before they can stabilize and they can still play the mid game. If they both were unbanned Zoo would still be very strong, especially since Zoo is so versatile and could be built to deal with that deck existing in the format. But a format of just Zoo and Uxx Thopter Control would be very boring and not healthy at all.
But Nacatl is a stupid ban because it didn't actually accomplish what they wanted it to, turns out Zoo wasn't keeping other aggro decks out of the format because it turns out those aggro decks are actually just trash and aren't competitive. So what's the reasoning for keeping Nacatl banned now? Its clearly not reducing diversity because there just aren't any aggro decks that are competitive enough now that weren't when Zoo was around. By letting Zoo back into format we actually increase the format diversity because we now actually have another aggro deck that is a legitimate contender again.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
Jace, the Mindsculpter at best gives you an extra card on turn 4, that doesn't seem that exciting. The reason why both of these cards are good are because they can win the game by themselves and bury your opponent in card/resource advantage in the late game. And in fact the Thopter Sword decks had an even to slightly unfavorable matchup with Zoo decks because unlike Jund, Zoo can actually kill Control decks before they can stabilize and they can still play the mid game. If they both were unbanned Zoo would still be very strong, especially since Zoo is so versatile and could be built to deal with that deck existing in the format. But a format of just Zoo and Uxx Thopter Control would be very boring and not healthy at all.
But Nacatl is a stupid ban because it didn't actually accomplish what they wanted it to, turns out Zoo wasn't keeping other aggro decks out of the format because it turns out those aggro decks are actually just trash and aren't competitive. So what's the reasoning for keeping Nacatl banned now? Its clearly not reducing diversity because there just aren't any aggro decks that are competitive enough now that weren't when Zoo was around. By letting Zoo back into format we actually increase the format diversity because we now actually have another aggro deck that is a legitimate contender again.
Man, you are severely overestimating the power of Sword of the Meek. You assemble the combo, and you win after a few turns. Scapeshift, Pod (both Melira and Kiki), and Twin all win the turn you assemble the combo. How is winning over a few turns MORE dangerous than winning instantly? All of those combos are either less or equally fragile as well. I don't understand how people can argue that card advantage engines are more dangerous then instant wins that have earlier fundamental turns. Honestly, if a control deck survives through the early and mid game, they deserve something powerful to win in the late game.
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MTGO: Stillenacht288
Modern:
Footsteps Hulk
Ascendency Combo
Restore Balance
Ad Nauseam
EDH:
Ghave Lands
Narset Combo
Since Scavenging Ooze's print, I've been thinking that Sword of the Meek may have become a card to be taken into account when talking about unbans.
A lot of decks run the mentioned Ooze, which is maindeck hate which can stop the "combo" anytime with a single mana, and the decks that would run the Sword are underrepresented in the current meta. It would be some fresh air in the format.
Also, I love Future Sight and I want to play with any possible cards from that set
The problem with this kind of reasoning is that we are suppose to rely on the BGx shell to keep these decks in check. Which means if something really went broken that only the BGx shell can answer, then people will just have more reason to run the BGx shell. The more people running the BGx shell, the more clamor for banning one of their good stuff. The more people wanting to own BGx shell, the more clamor regarding the price of Modern. Same can be said regarding GGT unban. Another thing is this will add another combo to Modern. This puts a strain on what control decks can be viable. With all the amount of combo in the meta, proactive decks like the BGx shell have the upper hand against combo compared to reactive ones like UWr.
The problem with this kind of reasoning is that we are suppose to rely on the BGx shell to keep these decks in check. Which means if something really went broken that only the BGx shell can answer, then people will just have more reason to run the BGx shell. The more people running the BGx shell, the more clamor for banning one of their good stuff. The more people wanting to own BGx shell, the more clamor regarding the price of Modern. Same can be said regarding GGT unban. Another thing is this will add another combo to Modern. This puts a strain on what control decks can be viable. With all the amount of combo in the meta, proactive decks like the BGx shell have the upper hand against combo compared to reactive ones like UWr.
True, except for one thing. Scavenging Ooze and DRS are so prevalent, that GGT wouldn't make dredge a deck. The format wouldn't have to shift to control it, it would just not be playable enough to exist.
True, except for one thing. Scavenging Ooze and DRS are so prevalent, that GGT wouldn't make dredge a deck. The format wouldn't have to shift to control it, it would just not be playable enough to exist.
I definitely don't think Dredge will be a thing after GGT is unbanned, however due to many things that need immediate attention, i think it's better to leave GGT for now since it will have no effect in the meta. Why fix something that's not problematic? Even though there won't be a powerful Dredge deck powered by GGT, it won't stop brewers from trying to break it if it's legal. Meaning, there will still be people that will play it and there will be another deck that control decks need to answer. If control decks does come across these decks and loses, and BGx comes across these decks and win due to maindeck answer, then you will see another top 8 full of BGx.
Man, you are severely overestimating the power of Sword of the Meek. You assemble the combo, and you win after a few turns. Scapeshift, Pod (both Melira and Kiki), and Twin all win the turn you assemble the combo. How is winning over a few turns MORE dangerous than winning instantly? All of those combos are either less or equally fragile as well. I don't understand how people can argue that card advantage engines are more dangerous then instant wins that have earlier fundamental turns. Honestly, if a control deck survives through the early and mid game, they deserve something powerful to win in the late game.
Its more powerful because you don't have to be a dedicated combo deck to utilize the the combo. In Scapeshift and Twin, sure they might be able to win on the spot with their combo but if someone can answer their combo, they don't really have a plan B. Plus they play so many cards that are awful outside of the combo because they need it for consistency, whereas Thopter Sword is a normal control deck and the combo takes up few slots so you still get to play all the good cards. I'm just guessing you never played against it before, the combo is easy to assemble, resilient, and it doesn't require you to dedicate your deck to it to use it effectively. If someone manages to answer your combo, you can still get their by other means like Tezzeret 1.0 Ultimate, Celestial Colonade beats, Trinket/Snapcaster Mage beats, and this is all backed up by your permission and removal which you get to play more of since your combo package is only 3 or so cards.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
I feel like I've heard a fair few complaints about the viability of control. Some people say there's only one good control deck in the format (UWR), some people say there aren't any, some people say that multiple good control decks could spring up with just a card or two being added to the pool. I think adding Sword of the Meek might be the thing that helps add a dose of control to the meta game. With it control decks that aren't UWR could be a thing. Esper, Grixis, Dimir, and Azorius all get a great tool that they've been lacking: a strong card advantage engine.
GBx midrange decks in particular (I'm not here to pick on GBx decks, just an example) generate so much more card advantage than the control decks out there that control decks are going to keep struggling (again, outside of the one big one: UWR) until they're given a better way to generate card advantage.
The fact that Thopter-Sword relies on low converted mana cost artifacts and the graveyard makes it easily hated on and thus should keep it from getting out of hand. Ancient Grudge, Nature's Claim, Stony Silence, Maelstrom Pulse, Abrupt Decay, Relic of Progenitus, and Scavenging Ooze are all great anti-Thopter cards that already see quite a bit of play both in main and sideboards. They also span all the colors except for blue, which has to use colorless options and counterspells, so that even mono-colored decks (of which there aren't many) can handle Thopter-Sword.
Shaman doesn't do anything to stop Thopter - you need to hit the Sword, which dodges all three of his abilities.
I would personally love to see a Thopter control deck in the format, but one of the main issues is that it's a 3-card engine (as in, it takes up three slots in your 75), which means that a lot of decks can utilize the engine.
Name me them then. And I don't think decks are going to run their wincon as a 2 of and a 1 of.
Are you guys forgetting the other reason Sword is banned? You know, the one that is responsible for getting both Sensei's Divining Top and Second Sunrise on the list as well?
For your perusal, why Sword was banned in Overextended:
Q: Why was Sword of the Meek banned?
A: The Sword of the Meek/Thopter Foundry combo is very powerful and very easy to fit into a control deck since it’s cheap and combines well with card drawing like Thirst for Knowledge. With cards like Academy Ruins to back it up, the combo is incredibly resilient.
A lot of people are calling for Dark Depths to be banned, but, despite not being as fast, evidence supports that Sword of the Meek/Thopter Foundry was more problematic. The cheap combo can grind out control decks easily and negates beatdown decks once online. Additionally, it has a Top-Esque problem in that mirror matches with Thopter/Sword draw out games.
It’s okay that some combos exist, but ones that are this powerful, negate aggressive strategies, make rounds take an extremely long time, and fit so smoothly into control decks have to be looked at for bannings. This is one such case.
Blatantly false. Absolutely ZERO competitive Modern Affinity decks play Tezz.
Also false, unless you're talking about 2012 Affinity (the RW version), which did play 1-2 Gifts. Tempered Steel has always been a 0-of in Affinity.
Currently, Modern Affinity only plays a single basic Island.
Number of Memnites in recent GP T8 Affinity decks:
Justin Robb, Brisbane: 2
Wee Yuen Khor, Brisbane: 1
Alex Majlaton, Detroit: 2
Zvi Mowshowitz, Portland: 2
Paul Rietzl, Portland: 3
Please don't embarrass yourself further. Go read up some T8 decklists before spewing untruths about Affinity (this is like the fourth time you've done so already). Better yet, there's an Affinity Primer on this very forum, with a convenient FAQ section explaining why all the cards that you claim to be good (Tezz, Tempered Steel) actually suck.
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.
Yes. Good. People are finally starting to hear my posts. Sword of the Meek is easily the best unban for the format as it currently is. I understand that in a "vacuum" Preordain, AV, BB, and Troll seem like good unbans, but SotM is the only unban that will create a new archetype and actually shake up the format. I have tested SotM in various builds, and it is always very powerful against BGx, though not unbeatable, due to their hand disruption and ScOozes (NTM hate out the sb).
People argue "It will kill aggro!" No. Affinity can easily win before the combo even comes online, and Champion with a plating completely outraces it. Burn also can race the combo, many games are lost before the combo is found, assembled, and utilized. Those are the main top tier aggressive decks. Nacatl could come off simultaneously or three months down the line if all the zoo lovers (Lantern) feel the deck needs a boost, but I'm fairly certain that would be unnecessary, as the field would naturally be less midrange (a strategy that is inherently good against aggression).
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Quotes:
In theory SotM control decks should absolutely crush Midrange decks because SotM gives infinite inevitability so once you set up the combo, they won't be able to keep up. The only thing is Abrupt Decay with an active Scavenging Ooze could be somewhat problematic, neither of these cards existed with SotM. But I think if SotM gets unbanned (which it won't as there are so many less offensive cards on the list) it has the potential of being oppressive because there are so many decks that just literally can't be an active Foundary + SotM.
Actually illness in the ranks, pulse, and decay say hi. I would say SotM unban would do as much to the format as GGT would. Same could be said for BB. Yeah I have changed my stance on BB, did some testing lately.
That option is too slow. The only way to realistically keep the meta in check is banning cards.
I'm curious, what might a SotM control deck look like? I'm pretty new to the format and I wanna know what this would look like if Sword was actually unbanned...
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk
This is the quintessential Thopter Sword deck by LSV but there are other builds. There was Thopter Fae, Esper Teachings Thopter, and even Bant Thopter but I don't have those lists on hand.
That's pretty cool. It'd need a bit of work to fit into Modern even with Sword unbanned, but it's cool. Thanks for the link.
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk
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Quotes:
Why do you think Sword is better than Preordain? Sword seems like a fairly narrow unban that would only enable one solid decklist. Preordain would benefit at least 3 decks (Delver, Storm, and Twin), pushing one from tier 2 to tier 1, one from tier 4 to tier 2, and one from a BGx beating into competitiveness. Also, Sword threatens to make other fringe aggro decks a lot less viable, including Soul Sisters, Tokens, Burn, and Gruul Zoo. Preordain almost definitely would just enable decks, not push others out.
In case I was unclear, this is not to criticize you or your idea as much as it is to challenge it.
Comment From Blake
Would development be willing to print new cards or cards from older sets in Modern Masters so that the cards can enter the Modern cardpool without going through Standard?
Aaron Forsythe: We talk about it, but without a lot of testing, it's kind of risky. We wouldn't want to introduce something risky and have to ban it. That would defeat the purpose. And we don't really have the manpower to test incremental additions to Modern.
Dunno how to interpret it, but I think the last line is really key to how R&D handle Modern.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
If they changed the rules to something like this, it would be really difficult to explain what would be legal and illegal in modern. I am not really a fan.
Also its pretty obvious that Wizards can't easily test for formats other than limited and standard. The problem is that modern relies on WOTC to ban things because it doesn't have the answers that the eternal formats do.
Modern:
UWUW TronUW
Legacy:
WDeath N TaxesW
CEldrazi C
If you couldn't tell I hate greedy blue decks.
Vintage
WWhite Trash
So they won't ever unban anything because they don't want to test it? How could they not have enough manpower?
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
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It's not a matter of "changing the rules," so much as a matter of the willpower to execute such a thing. It is easy to list under Legal sets Modern Masters, as people who play the format SHOULD be checking said list anyway when they first start.
@Tinfoil Hat: No, but we should not expect unbans really until after a longer period since the last banning. Like say at most expect an unbanning every 12-18 months after the last ban.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
But Thopter Sword has a reputation of being arguably oppressive as it was part of one of the most monstrous combo decks in Extended. I don't think you can say that it is certainly safe as it really hasn't been tested in any reasonable capacity and its certainly a far more dangerous unbar than plenty of other cards on the list. And just because it allows a new archetype into the format doesn't mean its good for the format, we could unban Blazing Shoal, Dark Depths, Dread Return, Glimpse of Nature, and Hypergenesis and that would add 5 new decks to the format. And honestly I'm less scared of Dark Depths than I am of Sword of the Meek, Dark Depths is extremely fragile to disruption but its certainly too powerful for this format because 3/3's for 1 are too good.
That is why the cat is banned. Just think about it for a moment.
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Jace, the Mindsculpter at best gives you an extra card on turn 4, that doesn't seem that exciting. The reason why both of these cards are good are because they can win the game by themselves and bury your opponent in card/resource advantage in the late game. And in fact the Thopter Sword decks had an even to slightly unfavorable matchup with Zoo decks because unlike Jund, Zoo can actually kill Control decks before they can stabilize and they can still play the mid game. If they both were unbanned Zoo would still be very strong, especially since Zoo is so versatile and could be built to deal with that deck existing in the format. But a format of just Zoo and Uxx Thopter Control would be very boring and not healthy at all.
But Nacatl is a stupid ban because it didn't actually accomplish what they wanted it to, turns out Zoo wasn't keeping other aggro decks out of the format because it turns out those aggro decks are actually just trash and aren't competitive. So what's the reasoning for keeping Nacatl banned now? Its clearly not reducing diversity because there just aren't any aggro decks that are competitive enough now that weren't when Zoo was around. By letting Zoo back into format we actually increase the format diversity because we now actually have another aggro deck that is a legitimate contender again.
Man, you are severely overestimating the power of Sword of the Meek. You assemble the combo, and you win after a few turns. Scapeshift, Pod (both Melira and Kiki), and Twin all win the turn you assemble the combo. How is winning over a few turns MORE dangerous than winning instantly? All of those combos are either less or equally fragile as well. I don't understand how people can argue that card advantage engines are more dangerous then instant wins that have earlier fundamental turns. Honestly, if a control deck survives through the early and mid game, they deserve something powerful to win in the late game.
Footsteps Hulk
Ascendency Combo
Restore Balance
Ad Nauseam
EDH:
Ghave Lands
Narset Combo
The problem with this kind of reasoning is that we are suppose to rely on the BGx shell to keep these decks in check. Which means if something really went broken that only the BGx shell can answer, then people will just have more reason to run the BGx shell. The more people running the BGx shell, the more clamor for banning one of their good stuff. The more people wanting to own BGx shell, the more clamor regarding the price of Modern. Same can be said regarding GGT unban. Another thing is this will add another combo to Modern. This puts a strain on what control decks can be viable. With all the amount of combo in the meta, proactive decks like the BGx shell have the upper hand against combo compared to reactive ones like UWr.
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
The Philippine Modern Community
RGWUB MTG Modern Philippines
True, except for one thing. Scavenging Ooze and DRS are so prevalent, that GGT wouldn't make dredge a deck. The format wouldn't have to shift to control it, it would just not be playable enough to exist.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
I definitely don't think Dredge will be a thing after GGT is unbanned, however due to many things that need immediate attention, i think it's better to leave GGT for now since it will have no effect in the meta. Why fix something that's not problematic? Even though there won't be a powerful Dredge deck powered by GGT, it won't stop brewers from trying to break it if it's legal. Meaning, there will still be people that will play it and there will be another deck that control decks need to answer. If control decks does come across these decks and loses, and BGx comes across these decks and win due to maindeck answer, then you will see another top 8 full of BGx.
UWR Midrange
BRG Jund
BG Rock
UR Storm
The Philippine Modern Community
RGWUB MTG Modern Philippines
Its more powerful because you don't have to be a dedicated combo deck to utilize the the combo. In Scapeshift and Twin, sure they might be able to win on the spot with their combo but if someone can answer their combo, they don't really have a plan B. Plus they play so many cards that are awful outside of the combo because they need it for consistency, whereas Thopter Sword is a normal control deck and the combo takes up few slots so you still get to play all the good cards. I'm just guessing you never played against it before, the combo is easy to assemble, resilient, and it doesn't require you to dedicate your deck to it to use it effectively. If someone manages to answer your combo, you can still get their by other means like Tezzeret 1.0 Ultimate, Celestial Colonade beats, Trinket/Snapcaster Mage beats, and this is all backed up by your permission and removal which you get to play more of since your combo package is only 3 or so cards.
GBx midrange decks in particular (I'm not here to pick on GBx decks, just an example) generate so much more card advantage than the control decks out there that control decks are going to keep struggling (again, outside of the one big one: UWR) until they're given a better way to generate card advantage.
The fact that Thopter-Sword relies on low converted mana cost artifacts and the graveyard makes it easily hated on and thus should keep it from getting out of hand. Ancient Grudge, Nature's Claim, Stony Silence, Maelstrom Pulse, Abrupt Decay, Relic of Progenitus, and Scavenging Ooze are all great anti-Thopter cards that already see quite a bit of play both in main and sideboards. They also span all the colors except for blue, which has to use colorless options and counterspells, so that even mono-colored decks (of which there aren't many) can handle Thopter-Sword.
Just my thoughts.
Whatever I build from my Box-o-EDH stuff
Legacy
Sneak and Show
UR Delver
Scapeshift Nic Fit
Modern
Merfolk
Name me them then. And I don't think decks are going to run their wincon as a 2 of and a 1 of.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
For your perusal, why Sword was banned in Overextended:
| Ad Nauseam
| Infect
Big Johnny.