I'm assuming you're already using Iron Myr? It's tutorable with Imperial Recruiter, Gamble, and Hoarding Dragon (if you use it). I'm using Hoarding Dragon because I'm too cheap to buy Recruiter, and too chicken to proxy it.
How about Krark-Clan Stoker? Any artifact that's sacrificed could be recurred with Goblin Welder, it's a goblin, and it can be found with Imperial Recruiter.
Has anyone tried Mad Prophet over Viashino Racketeer? I feel Prophet is stronger because it doesn't require Conjurer's Closet to be reused. It can even be used twice in a single turn if Closet is on the field.
I run Mad Prophet and have been very happy with it.
I'm assuming you're already using Iron Myr? It's tutorable with Imperial Recruiter, Gamble, and Hoarding Dragon (if you use it). I'm using Hoarding Dragon because I'm too cheap to buy Recruiter, and too chicken to proxy it.
How about Krark-Clan Stoker? Any artifact that's sacrificed could be recurred with Goblin Welder, it's a goblin, and it can be found with Imperial Recruiter.
Has anyone tried Mad Prophet over Viashino Racketeer? I feel Prophet is stronger because it doesn't require Conjurer's Closet to be reused. It can even be used twice in a single turn if Closet is on the field.
I do play the Myr which has also great synergy with Welder, Battlesphere and the Chamber. The Recruiter is just too expansive and I usually search for better cards with Gamble (usually an enchantment). I don't really like the dragon, it's cheap to buy but I just think it's bad (it would be okay if the card goes directly to its owner's hand).
I could however consider Krark-Clan Stoker. It's a sac outlet when Confusion in the Ranks is on the battlefield and it does the job providing additional mana when really needed (for example to get to 10 mana for the infinite Kiki-Zealous combo or just to play 2 enchantments in the same turn). I can sac Myr tokens (Battlesphere/Chamber) which is nice too.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
Tangle Wire just got better with Strionic Resonator. Apart from the fact that you're basically tapping Norin and the Tangle Wire itself, which is a good thing as it becomes a little asymmetrical, you also have Welder shenanigans within the deck. Why no love for it?
Private Mod Note
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Vintage Workshops
Legacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH: Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!
Urza, Lord High Artificer
Tangle Wire just got better with Strionic Resonator. Apart from the fact that you're basically tapping Norin and the Tangle Wire itself, which is a good thing as it becomes a little asymmetrical, you also have Welder shenanigans within the deck. Why no love for it?
It's great when you're ahead, but when you're behind it's only going to get you killed.
It is highly entertaining to cast a turn 2/3 tangle wire with mana rocks and quickly get out of control, but in far too many situations it's not helpful.
If we were more of a stax deck Tangle Wire would be an option, but we're not.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I'm planning on playing a list very similar to Gaka's from the first page in a competitive tournament. How does Norin perform in a more high-stakes environment?
my playgroup is casual, but nobody is pulling punches so from time to time we play with cutthroat decks. the more the environment is competitive, the more the control players will use that counter or removal on the combo players, and the aggro players won't find a reason to attack you unless you give them one. so just wait and durdle card advantage until you go off with one of norin's engine and you're good to go. obviously you need to have serious negotiating skills if someone at the table has already seen what Norin can do to them.
in a duel environment, i started doing better by using a stax package (tangle wire+smokestack+ensnaring bridge and something else) instead of the fork suite. on one side, you need to be creative to counter combo decks with what you have, on the other though, it's just one player's cards that can deal with whichever norin engine you have on the table, so they're more resistant to hate.
Yesterday i played an edh with 3 friends of mine, who didn't know this nori deck, it ended up with Grip of chaos+Confusion in the ranks+Norin. It was a lot of fun, but the rule advisor hated me when we asked him about card interactions.
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
For what it's worth, the opposite of evergreen is "deciduous" so I suggest we start using that from now on to refer to shroud, banding, islandhome, etc.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
not really sure about the land. i mean, if i have some red intensive permanent in play i'm already winning, i'll try one if the price tag will be affordable (and i think that would be after people will play with it and will notice its clunkiness).
on the other side, i think i'm preordering a Hammer of Purphoros:
-haste comes in handy
-it's legendary so you can use it to untap honor-worn shaku
-can steal enchantments or artifacts if confusion in the ranks if it's in play, or it's another creature generator if citr is already in play.
-3/3 tokens can survive a elesh norn making helm of obedience another answer if i have both in play, can be really used with crucible or if you get flooded.
Hammer looks good even if I don't run fetches/Crucible package so yeah, it's obviously great in this deck with all the enchantments and artifact synergy. Maybe a little bit worst with Possibility Storm (enchantment are usually stronger than artifacts) but still.
I don't think I will play it (it really shine more with Crucible) but I see reasons to play it.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
One thing I've been thinking about is why include so much mana ramp (Shaku, Gauntlet, Caged Sun, Drum, and maybe Stoker) when there's no X-spell to take full advantage of it?
One thing I've been thinking about is why include so much mana ramp (Shaku, Gauntlet, Caged Sun, Drum, and maybe Stoker) when there's no X-spell to take full advantage of it?
We don't want a chance on 50 mana (like my blue deck).
We reliably want 10 mana
Any thoughts on the new Nykthos land? Devotion is an interesting mechanic and Theros is overall a great set for EDH.
Not so sure.
It's been a while since I played Norin, but I don't think I have enough mana in play for it to be worth it.
Too many things are artifacts/colourless.
PS. It's my favourite part of the rumour-season: "Will this troll people in my Norin-deck?"
Land: No.
Akroan Crusader: I don't target my own stuff enough.
Swallower: No.
Hammer: Awesome! Awesome! It makes tokens, gives haste and the tokens can steal enchantments/artifacts when Confusion is in play.
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
I'm probably in the minority on this, but I don't like the hammer. I would just run Fervor. I'm not really sure that spending 2R to cast stone rain on one of my lands is worth a 3/3 token. I'll stick with Kher Keep and Gauntlet of Might/Gauntlet of Power/Caged Sun.
It's super fragile; I mean, someone with R, G, W sneezes and this thing is gone.
I can see it being useful in some situations, but I don't think it's useful enough of the time to warrant its inclusion. Just my .02
In my Krenko list, I prefer Fervor. It's harder for opponents to deal with than an artifact like Hammer. (also Fervor has a quote from my general on it)
In Norin? Tokens are rad. Still iffy versus Fervor and other haste ins. The more difficult cost and much more fragile permanent makes it questionable.
If it was just Legendary Enchantment? No problem. Love it. Would play.
The hammer does become a lot more appealing if you're playing Crucible.
Just got back from the tournament, and I tied with two other guys for 2nd. I only won one pod and it was due to setting up a Mindslaver lock with Goblin Welder against an Omnath deck.
We don't want a chance on 50 mana (like my blue deck).
We reliably want 10 mana
Not so sure.
It's been a while since I played Norin, but I don't think I have enough mana in play for it to be worth it.
Too many things are artifacts/colourless.
PS. It's my favourite part of the rumour-season: "Will this troll people in my Norin-deck?"
Land: No.
Akroan Crusader: I don't target my own stuff enough.
Swallower: No.
Hammer: Awesome! Awesome! It makes tokens, gives haste and the tokens can steal enchantments/artifacts when Confusion is in play.
i just realized the token are enchantments too. even better than i thought then!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I run Mad Prophet and have been very happy with it.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
Turn your junk into something great with PucaTrade!
This is not a goblin. I'm thinking with Moggcatcher in mind.
I do play the Myr which has also great synergy with Welder, Battlesphere and the Chamber. The Recruiter is just too expansive and I usually search for better cards with Gamble (usually an enchantment). I don't really like the dragon, it's cheap to buy but I just think it's bad (it would be okay if the card goes directly to its owner's hand).
I could however consider Krark-Clan Stoker. It's a sac outlet when Confusion in the Ranks is on the battlefield and it does the job providing additional mana when really needed (for example to get to 10 mana for the infinite Kiki-Zealous combo or just to play 2 enchantments in the same turn). I can sac Myr tokens (Battlesphere/Chamber) which is nice too.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
WorkshopsLegacy:
Death and Taxes
EDH:
Arcum DagssonMake Paradox Engine Great Again!Urza, Lord High Artificer
It's great when you're ahead, but when you're behind it's only going to get you killed.
It is highly entertaining to cast a turn 2/3 tangle wire with mana rocks and quickly get out of control, but in far too many situations it's not helpful.
If we were more of a stax deck Tangle Wire would be an option, but we're not.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I think this is true of any deck, and especially mono-red decks. Tangle Wire should be part of a stax package.
in a duel environment, i started doing better by using a stax package (tangle wire+smokestack+ensnaring bridge and something else) instead of the fork suite. on one side, you need to be creative to counter combo decks with what you have, on the other though, it's just one player's cards that can deal with whichever norin engine you have on the table, so they're more resistant to hate.
Best interaction strip mine+Grip of chaos.
Sam: a demon summoning spell ? why?
Lucifer: to summon a demon (auto censorship here)
====
The Wizard of Oz: A juvenile delinquent runs away from home, kills the first person she meets in a foreign land, robs her corpse, then promptly forms a gang with three complete strangers in order to kill again.
====
with R i'll burn you and with B youll'be maimed
Also, awesome deck. Seems fun to play.
Quotes:
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
on the other side, i think i'm preordering a Hammer of Purphoros:
-haste comes in handy
-it's legendary so you can use it to untap honor-worn shaku
-can steal enchantments or artifacts if confusion in the ranks if it's in play, or it's another creature generator if citr is already in play.
-3/3 tokens can survive a elesh norn making helm of obedience another answer if i have both in play, can be really used with crucible or if you get flooded.
I don't think I will play it (it really shine more with Crucible) but I see reasons to play it.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
We don't want a chance on 50 mana (like my blue deck).
We reliably want 10 mana
Not so sure.
It's been a while since I played Norin, but I don't think I have enough mana in play for it to be worth it.
Too many things are artifacts/colourless.
PS. It's my favourite part of the rumour-season: "Will this troll people in my Norin-deck?"
Land: No.
Akroan Crusader: I don't target my own stuff enough.
Swallower: No.
Hammer: Awesome! Awesome! It makes tokens, gives haste and the tokens can steal enchantments/artifacts when Confusion is in play.
Rules Advisor
Pauper decks: Weenie Tokens — Zombies
My own rules when building a Commander deck:
1) Underrated general that I can build around but the deck must work without him/her too.
2) Every card must be legal in both banlists.
3) No infinite combo that could win (and ruin) instantly a multiplayer game.
4) Synergy at all costs; stay on theme, avoid goodstuff.
It's super fragile; I mean, someone with R, G, W sneezes and this thing is gone.
I can see it being useful in some situations, but I don't think it's useful enough of the time to warrant its inclusion. Just my .02
In Norin? Tokens are rad. Still iffy versus Fervor and other haste ins. The more difficult cost and much more fragile permanent makes it questionable.
If it was just Legendary Enchantment? No problem. Love it. Would play.
The hammer does become a lot more appealing if you're playing Crucible.
Here's my version:
1x Avalanche Riders
1x Beetleback Chief
1x Duplicant
1x Goblin Assassin
1x Goblin Matron
1x Goblin Recruiter
1x Goblin Welder
1x Hoarding Dragon
1x Iron Myr
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Manic Vandal
1x Mindclaw Shaman
1x Mogg War Marshal
1x Moggcatcher
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Norin the Wary
1x Outrage Shaman
1x Rummaging Goblin
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Squee, Goblin Nabob
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Zealous Conscripts
Sorcery (11)
1x Aftershock
1x Faithless Looting
1x Gamble
1x Mogg Infestation
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Ruination
1x Scrambleverse
1x Shattering Spree
1x Vandalblast
1x Warp World
1x Wheel of Fortune
Instant (3)
1x Chaos Warp
1x Reverberate
1x Wild Ricochet
1x Chandra Ablaze
1x Karn Liberated
Artifact (18)
1x Caged Sun
1x Cloudstone Curio
1x Conjurer's Closet
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Gauntlet of Might
1x Genesis Chamber
1x Honor-Worn Shaku
1x Jester's Cap
1x Memory Jar
1x Mind Stone
1x Mind's Eye
1x Mindslaver
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Skullclamp
1x Sol Ring
1x Springleaf Drum
1x Teferi's Puzzle Box
1x Trading Post
Land (38)
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Great Furnace
1x Haunted Fengraf
1x Kher Keep
26x Mountain
1x Mountain Valley
1x Spinerock Knoll
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Enchantment (4)
1x Blood Moon
1x Confusion in the Ranks
1x Stranglehold
1x Warstorm Surge
1x Possibility Storm
1x Grip of Chaos
1x Into the Core
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
i just realized the token are enchantments too. even better than i thought then!
Translated:
Indestructible
<<Blabla, you need symbols to make this a creature>>
Whenever another creature comes into play under your control, this deals 2 damage to each opponent.
2R: Each creature you control gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
Helloooo, sexy.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Motion denied.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary