A bit surprised I didn't see any [SCD] on this guy yet.
When I first saw Burnished Hart, I knew I was going to love it in EDH. Colorless land ramp would at the very least give some benefits to the non-green colors, making him at least a secondary Solemn Simulacrum.
I didn't expect how much I would love to see this guy in my opening hand. Far more than our dear sad robot. The total 6 cost may seem like a lot to spend for 2 lands, however splitting it over 2 turns makes it easily manageable. Also, the extra 1 lower cost has made a huge impact for me a number of games. Getting 2 lands is also a very large benefit on one card, and has me considering running him even in certain green decks, where creature recursion is fairly easy to pull off.
Already in a blue/black deck I was able to drop Burnished Hart on turn 3, and then turn 4 cast Undying Evil to sac him and bring him back. Having 7 lands on turn 5 let me drop a Solemn, and then sac him for 10 lands on turn 6, where I missed a drop but cloned my Solemn. Not bad for a non-green deck.
A bit surprised I didn't see any [SCD] on this guy yet.
When I first saw Burnished Hart, I knew I was going to love it in EDH. Colorless land ramp would at the very least give some benefits to the non-green colors, making him at least a secondary Solemn Simulacrum.
I didn't expect how much I would love to see this guy in my opening hand. Far more than our dear sad robot. The total 6 cost may seem like a lot to spend for 2 lands, however splitting it over 2 turns makes it easily manageable. Also, the extra 1 lower cost has made a huge impact for me a number of games. Getting 2 lands is also a very large benefit on one card, and has me considering running him even in certain green decks, where creature recursion is fairly easy to pull off.
Already in a blue/black deck I was able to drop Burnished Hart on turn 3, and then turn 4 cast Undying Evil to sac him and bring him back. Having 7 lands on turn 5 let me drop a Solemn, and then sac him for 10 lands on turn 6, where I missed a drop but cloned my Solemn. Not bad for a non-green deck.
Anyone else have good synergies to share with our dear deer?
My question for you, Bob is how much ramp is too much ramp?
Lets say you run 7 mana rocks, 3 mana doublers with 38 lands. That's already 48 card slots dedicated to mana. Don't you think that's too much?
I can see this card being Solemn #2, but generally it's only good in metas or playgroups where overextending is actually bad. EDH is a supposedly a big mana format, but why do low cmc spells still win you the game. A deck with 16 6+ cmc spells won't get you anywhere against an Kaalia, Aminar, Zur, Sisay or Teeg combo deck.
Your meta seems really nice to allow you to generate that much mana without being punished. If you have free reign over your mana base, go for it. If you already run Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Grim Monolith, Gilded Lotus, Solemn, Dimir Signet, and Talisman of Dominance as your bases for blue back. I'm not sure if you need more ramp beyond that, and you need to draw business spells not ramp spells.
It's the idea behind drawing into draw spells; it's not card advantage, it's filtering at that point.
What in your blue/black decks require so much mana? You aren't allowed to say Capsize or any other spell with Buyback.
@Relevant post: Burnished Hart is really good if your friends allow you build your mana like that. It would better in a more casual meta, but at 3 mana you could replace it with better ramp.
Krosan Tusker helps you survive Armageddon, and draws you a card.
Coalition Relic helps you survive Armageddon, works well any deck outside of mono-colour
Darksteel Ingot; survives Jokulhaups
One of my friends runs a Kemba, Kha Regent deck with Mr. Elk and Trading Post. Emeria, the Sky Ruin and Kemba's kitties make elk recycling very easy. On top of Sun Titan, Reveillark, Karmic Guide, and other recursion.
I might actually run this in my Selenia, Dark Angel deck over Gilded Lotus. It might lead to one less net mana which is not that big of a deal compared to bein able to be recurred by Sun Titan, carry swords, ramping earlier. Looks good on paper but well see. So far, it'll get the nod.
It was a rather more 'casual' game, but the more 'cut-throat' decks in my meta are of the hyper-ramp/advantage variety anyways, so it's nice to have a non-green card that allows decks to keep up to that foolishness.
@Relevant post: Burnished Hart is really good if your friends allow you build your mana like that. It would better in a more casual meta, but at 3 mana you could replace it with better ramp.
Krosan Tusker helps you survive Armageddon, and draws you a card.
Coalition Relic helps you survive Armageddon, works well any deck outside of mono-colour
Darksteel Ingot; survives Jokulhaups
I guess there it depends on what kind of mana removal/denial you see more of. I don't see much mass LD, but even in mass LD metas, land ramp can be good ramp. Gets you into that other stuff and to the point where you can more easily hold lands in hand.
Also, Tusker isn't technically ramp by my book. CA, yes, but fetch != ramp.
I dropped the pretty Elk into a couple of my non-green decks out of curiosity. I will try to remember reply here once I've done some playtesting.
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Often, i prefer seeing Hart to Solemn. The two basics and a turn on the field earlier is awesome. Only problem is it dying when you have no mana to sac it. When it came out I bought like 15 of him. He and solemn staple all my decks.
I think it is good, depending on the deck it's in, but not a staple. I am currently running it in 0 decks and do not have plans to run it (yet). I've suggested it to a ob nixilis, the fallen player, though. It seemed to make sense, since it curved right out of his commander. The double landfall is definitely significant for non-green decks.
This guy did wonders for me in my Zirilan deck when I got trading post out. I think I fished out 6 land before someone decided to stop it. The dangers of giving mono-red consistent mana.
I run it is each and every non-green deck I have. It's just that good, especially in colors that only have Solemn and Wayfarer's Bauble for true land ramping. Two baubles in one, with the ability to recur, is absolutely fantastic.
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One trick I thought up was Cathar's Crusader+Arcbound Reclaimer+A draw mech like Howling Mine or something. Drop Hart, sac at EoT, recur with Relcaimer, and make the rest of your board bigger every time.
I play Burnished Hart in my big mana Erebos, God of the Dead build and it is awesome everytime. I have even managed to use it as part of a near permanent Infernal Darkness lock.
@Relevant post: Burnished Hart is really good if your friends allow you build your mana like that.
I guess this would be my thoughts too... Among casual groups I guess friends would let us keep Burnished Hart until our next turn when we can sac it. But I think in more competitive metas this guy might see a Swords to Plowshares or Curse of the Swine come his way.
That being said, I have two to try out. I am thinking I will start with one in my Hanna, Ship's Navigator and the other in my Chainer, Master Dementia where he can be recurred (unless he feels the brunt of an exile effect)
Final Thought... I would still rank Solemn Simulacrum above the elk in terms of not having to spread his ability over two turns in an early game.
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My question for you, Bob is how much ramp is too much ramp?
Lets say you run 7 mana rocks, 3 mana doublers with 38 lands. That's already 48 card slots dedicated to mana. Don't you think that's too much?
I can see this card being Solemn #2, but generally it's only good in metas or playgroups where overextending is actually bad. EDH is a supposedly a big mana format, but why do low cmc spells still win you the game. A deck with 16 6+ cmc spells won't get you anywhere against an Kaalia, Aminar, Zur, Sisay or Teeg combo deck.
Your meta seems really nice to allow you to generate that much mana without being punished. If you have free reign over your mana base, go for it. If you already run Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Grim Monolith, Gilded Lotus, Solemn, Dimir Signet, and Talisman of Dominance as your bases for blue back. I'm not sure if you need more ramp beyond that, and you need to draw business spells not ramp spells.
It's the idea behind drawing into draw spells; it's not card advantage, it's filtering at that point.
What in your blue/black decks require so much mana? You aren't allowed to say Capsize or any other spell with Buyback.
@Relevant post: Burnished Hart is really good if your friends allow you build your mana like that. It would better in a more casual meta, but at 3 mana you could replace it with better ramp.
Krosan Tusker helps you survive Armageddon, and draws you a card.
Coalition Relic helps you survive Armageddon, works well any deck outside of mono-colour
Darksteel Ingot; survives Jokulhaups
I think playing relevant cards earlier and not overextending on land are good principles. But also, there's a tendency to look only at a deck's mana curve when trying to eyeball how much mana it needs, and the typical EDH deck has activated abilities, recursion, and also one extra card than normal in the Command Zone. Even in very pro-active decks that get on the board early, they usually have Sword equip costs, lots of draw, and want mana for Instant speed answers.
So, I would say that 50% of your deck being mana cards is not a bad place to start. If anything, most low-curve decks I see need to trim the land count to about 34-35 and then put in more ramp cards and small draw <3 CMC, up to at least 50% of the total deck. Business spells like Abrupt Decay are an important part of a deck, but they won't get you very far if the best threat you can put on the table on Turn 6 is Reaper of the Wilds. I think the biggest constraint in EDH is building for threats that can actually claim the game from the table in a reasonable time frame, say, Turn 9 or so. I can't name a single one that isn't either 1) the Commander 2) a so-called 'dirty' play (combo/MLD) or 3) extremely mana hungry.
For example if your win-con is Primal Surge or Warp World, then not being able to cast it until Turn 11-12 off natural drops will cost you the game most of the time, no matter how many opposing threats you answer in the meantime. Even in the event that every single thing is answered, literally, your opponents have the resources by then to stop a lot of win-cons that would've been quite live on Turn 8.
I guess this would be my thoughts too... Among casual groups I guess friends would let us keep Burnished Hart until our next turn when we can sac it. But I think in more competitive metas this guy might see a Swords to Plowshares or Curse of the Swine come his way.
That being said, I have two to try out. I am thinking I will start with one in my Hanna, Ship's Navigator and the other in my Chainer, Master Dementia where he can be recurred (unless he feels the brunt of an exile effect)
Final Thought... I would still rank Solemn Simulacrum above the elk in terms of not having to spread his ability over two turns in an early game.
Honestly if my opponent wants to spend a StP or PtE on my Burnished Hart, go right ahead. I'll count that as card advantage. Burnished Hart is a means to an end and unless they are playing combo I'm not really worried because that's one less spell they'll have to answer an actual threat. Burnished Hart is good but I'm not really sure I'd be willing to use targeted removal on it. It might be enough to make me want to use up a sweeper a little early if there are a handful of other things on the board though.
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this card is sick. if you aren't running green then you should be playing this card. people around here are using the 'it dies to removal' excuse but honestly if someone is going to waste a swords or something on this instead of my actual threats, by all means go right ahead!
I added him to my mono black Toshiro deck after running away with someone else's. I had one game where I had a Cabal Coffers (or possibly two of them...) and Chainer in play. I proceeded to rez and sac him something like 4 times in a single turn and just strip the lands from my deck lol.
My mono black Toshiro deck is a reanimator based deck and the Burnished Hart has allowed me to ramp into silly mana on several occasions.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I added him to my mono black Toshiro deck after running away with someone else's. I had one game where I had a Cabal Coffers (or possibly two of them...) and Chainer in play. I proceeded to rez and sac him something like 4 times in a single turn and just strip the lands from my deck lol.
My mono black Toshiro deck is a reanimator based deck and the Burnished Hart has allowed me to ramp into silly mana on several occasions.
He just seems too slow to me. Even though you can play him and then sac him the next turn, it still seems slow. I'd rather play explosive veggies then him. It seems like he'd be ok in non-green ramp decks. In those decks I don't know why you wouldn't use artifact ramp over him, since they usually won't get destroyed as easily. He just seems better in slower metas that don't a whole lot in the early turns.
When I first saw Burnished Hart, I knew I was going to love it in EDH. Colorless land ramp would at the very least give some benefits to the non-green colors, making him at least a secondary Solemn Simulacrum.
I didn't expect how much I would love to see this guy in my opening hand. Far more than our dear sad robot. The total 6 cost may seem like a lot to spend for 2 lands, however splitting it over 2 turns makes it easily manageable. Also, the extra 1 lower cost has made a huge impact for me a number of games. Getting 2 lands is also a very large benefit on one card, and has me considering running him even in certain green decks, where creature recursion is fairly easy to pull off.
Already in a blue/black deck I was able to drop Burnished Hart on turn 3, and then turn 4 cast Undying Evil to sac him and bring him back. Having 7 lands on turn 5 let me drop a Solemn, and then sac him for 10 lands on turn 6, where I missed a drop but cloned my Solemn. Not bad for a non-green deck.
In a new deck I've built, I'm looking forward to (ab)using him with Skullclamp, Undying Evil, Gift of Immortality, Nim Deathmantle, Sun Titan, Karmic Guide, Phyrexian Delver, Rings of Brighthearth, and Illusionist's Bracers. Sadly, I'm not sure where my Reveillark is.
Anyone else have good synergies to share with our dear deer?
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
My question for you, Bob is how much ramp is too much ramp?
Lets say you run 7 mana rocks, 3 mana doublers with 38 lands. That's already 48 card slots dedicated to mana.
Don't you think that's too much?
I can see this card being Solemn #2, but generally it's only good in metas or playgroups where overextending is actually bad. EDH is a supposedly a big mana format, but why do low cmc spells still win you the game. A deck with 16 6+ cmc spells won't get you anywhere against an Kaalia, Aminar, Zur, Sisay or Teeg combo deck.
Your meta seems really nice to allow you to generate that much mana without being punished. If you have free reign over your mana base, go for it. If you already run Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mana Crypt, Grim Monolith, Gilded Lotus, Solemn, Dimir Signet, and Talisman of Dominance as your bases for blue back. I'm not sure if you need more ramp beyond that, and you need to draw business spells not ramp spells.
It's the idea behind drawing into draw spells; it's not card advantage, it's filtering at that point.
What in your blue/black decks require so much mana? You aren't allowed to say Capsize or any other spell with Buyback.
@Relevant post: Burnished Hart is really good if your friends allow you build your mana like that. It would better in a more casual meta, but at 3 mana you could replace it with better ramp.
Krosan Tusker helps you survive Armageddon, and draws you a card.
Coalition Relic helps you survive Armageddon, works well any deck outside of mono-colour
Darksteel Ingot; survives Jokulhaups
EDH
BWG Doran Suicide Tempo BWG
BUW Sharuum Midrange Control BUW
Emptied Hand, dropped Whispering Madness on Lazav, Dimir Mastermind, got a Magus of the Jar, into Memory Jar, into Trading Post, while being able to hold up counter/reactionary mana. Somewhere in there Lazav was a Sangromancer, waited out the inevitable board wipe from the number of cards I was giving people, then dropped into Salvaging Station and Summoning Station and won. Sacry part is that there were points in that game where despite this shenaniganry, I was not the biggest threat.
It was a rather more 'casual' game, but the more 'cut-throat' decks in my meta are of the hyper-ramp/advantage variety anyways, so it's nice to have a non-green card that allows decks to keep up to that foolishness.
I guess there it depends on what kind of mana removal/denial you see more of. I don't see much mass LD, but even in mass LD metas, land ramp can be good ramp. Gets you into that other stuff and to the point where you can more easily hold lands in hand.
Also, Tusker isn't technically ramp by my book. CA, yes, but fetch != ramp.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
earlier today I was manadumping into him over and over by taking an opposing player's hart with Geth, fun times were had!
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I guess this would be my thoughts too... Among casual groups I guess friends would let us keep Burnished Hart until our next turn when we can sac it. But I think in more competitive metas this guy might see a Swords to Plowshares or Curse of the Swine come his way.
That being said, I have two to try out. I am thinking I will start with one in my Hanna, Ship's Navigator and the other in my Chainer, Master Dementia where he can be recurred (unless he feels the brunt of an exile effect)
Final Thought... I would still rank Solemn Simulacrum above the elk in terms of not having to spread his ability over two turns in an early game.
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UB Wrexial, the Risen DeepWU Hanna, Ship's NavigatorWGSigarda, Host of Herons EnchantressWULavinia, of the Tenth
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I think playing relevant cards earlier and not overextending on land are good principles. But also, there's a tendency to look only at a deck's mana curve when trying to eyeball how much mana it needs, and the typical EDH deck has activated abilities, recursion, and also one extra card than normal in the Command Zone. Even in very pro-active decks that get on the board early, they usually have Sword equip costs, lots of draw, and want mana for Instant speed answers.
So, I would say that 50% of your deck being mana cards is not a bad place to start. If anything, most low-curve decks I see need to trim the land count to about 34-35 and then put in more ramp cards and small draw <3 CMC, up to at least 50% of the total deck. Business spells like Abrupt Decay are an important part of a deck, but they won't get you very far if the best threat you can put on the table on Turn 6 is Reaper of the Wilds. I think the biggest constraint in EDH is building for threats that can actually claim the game from the table in a reasonable time frame, say, Turn 9 or so. I can't name a single one that isn't either 1) the Commander 2) a so-called 'dirty' play (combo/MLD) or 3) extremely mana hungry.
For example if your win-con is Primal Surge or Warp World, then not being able to cast it until Turn 11-12 off natural drops will cost you the game most of the time, no matter how many opposing threats you answer in the meantime. Even in the event that every single thing is answered, literally, your opponents have the resources by then to stop a lot of win-cons that would've been quite live on Turn 8.
Honestly if my opponent wants to spend a StP or PtE on my Burnished Hart, go right ahead. I'll count that as card advantage. Burnished Hart is a means to an end and unless they are playing combo I'm not really worried because that's one less spell they'll have to answer an actual threat. Burnished Hart is good but I'm not really sure I'd be willing to use targeted removal on it. It might be enough to make me want to use up a sweeper a little early if there are a handful of other things on the board though.
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My mono black Toshiro deck is a reanimator based deck and the Burnished Hart has allowed me to ramp into silly mana on several occasions.
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[Modern] Allies
Yeah, my Toshi deck loves him too.
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Deck Primer: Toshiro Umezawa
My Saffi deck
mine as well. something about a nightmare elk and chainer? and that one land us black players like to use...