If I understand the rules correctly, unless your opponent's deck matches your colors (at least partially) you will be unable to play the cards the specter exiles.
As I understand it, you cannot generate mana outside of your commander's colors, so unless you are playing 3/4/5 color commander, even lands the specter might reveal would only be able to tap for colorless? Is it just cards in your deck cannot produce off color mana? What if its a card from an opponent's deck, can you use that to produce off color mana? Is that then restricted to the color of the opponent's deck it was taken from? (In the case of something like Prophetic Prism or the like).
Reason I ask is because one of my favorite 60 card decks is a Nightveil Specter/Conundrum Sphinx deck. Its pretty casual but by nature it scales well with my opponent to a point. I'm looking into building a "Lazav's down with O.P.P." deck utilizing Diluvian Primordial, Chancellor of the Spires, Jace's Mindseeker, and Stolen Goods instead of the typical "let's just mill till we hit something good enough to commander damage out with". So, obviously, Nightveil Specters thievery ability came to mind and since I've had so much fun with it so far I considered it for EDH until I started thinking about the rules. In the 60 card deck I just use Prophetic Prism (because of the cantrip) to play anything I pull that I want.
So what's the verdict? If I did use it what would my restrictions be? Are my assumptions correct?
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You can't make mana outside of your general's color identity. Period. There's no way around it.
That's kind of what I thought. How disappointing (not the rule, the card), such a fun card too.
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On the other hand, it can help you hit your land drops, and it might hit an artifact or a card in your colors.
In general, you don't want to do much during your precombat main phase with Specter in play. Swing, see if you've hit something useful, then make your plays. Then again, that's often a good tactic anyway, depending on the cards you've got sitting around.
I find this very interesting. Mycosynth lattice sounds like the best option and it allow me to use Fiend of Shadows to further the deck theme. It's a little outside the budget ATM but I may be able just complete the deck and add it later. Makes me wish I hadn't gotten rid of my Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas now lol.
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False Dawn (and Celestial Dawn) both allow you to spend white mana as though it were mana of any color (and Mycosynth Lattice lets you spend colorless mana as though it were mana of any color). That's the important part for using those three cards to cast out-of-color spells; while Celestial Dawn and Lattice do change the color of cards, they don't change the mana costs, so the alteration of how you spend mana is the important bit.
The "you control" part of False Dawn is only relevant to how you're getting the white mana in the first place, not how you spend it.
False Dawn (and Celestial Dawn) both allow you to spend white mana as though it were mana of any color (and Mycosynth Lattice lets you spend colorless mana as though it were mana of any color). That's the important part for using those three cards to cast out-of-color spells; while Celestial Dawn and Lattice do change the color of cards, they don't change the mana costs, so the alteration of how you spend mana is the important bit.
The "you control" part of False Dawn is only relevant to how you're getting the white mana in the first place, not how you spend it.
Not by the wording on the actual card I read the oracle text and it is WAAAAAAAY different from the normal text lol. So yes, I was wrong
As other's have stated, Mycosynth Lattice is your best option. On top of being able to be used in any deck, it can help depending on your strategy (etc: in a red deck, it could help with enchantment destruction by turning them into artifacts, etc).
Still, Nightveil Specter alone is a bit underwhelming. You'll rarely get to use the things exiled by it, except for lands, and when you get something you can cast often it'll die before your next turn if it exiles something of significance to prevent you from using it.
I play it, and it's useful most of the time. It gets land drops a third of the time, obviously, which is generally fine. It gets artifacts that you might want to cast, and most importantly, it gets good stuff out of the other decks so they can't cast it.
As other's have stated, Mycosynth Lattice is your best option. On top of being able to be used in any deck, it can help depending on your strategy (etc: in a red deck, it could help with enchantment destruction by turning them into artifacts, etc).
Still, Nightveil Specter alone is a bit underwhelming. You'll rarely get to use the things exiled by it, except for lands, and when you get something you can cast often it'll die before your next turn if it exiles something of significance to prevent you from using it.
Oh, I'm aware. I have a 60 card deck built around it. I'm adding it mostly because its on theme. I will fully admit its a pet card but it does make for interesting games if it takes even 1 card.
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Specter will also end up landing on useful things like counters and board wipes that would be castable.
Exactly. Getting rid of resources your opponent(s) could use against you is always good. Being able to play some of them is just a sweet bonus.
I like the fact that you don't have to play the exiled card(s) immediately. Besides, Blue and Black are pretty popular colors. It's rare to find a table without another deck running one of these colors.
Exactly. Getting rid of resources your opponent(s) could use against you is always good. Being able to play some of them is just a sweet bonus.
I like the fact that you don't have to play the exiled card(s) immediately. Besides, Blue and Black are pretty popular colors. It's rare to find a table without another deck running one of these colors.
The same is pretty much true for my meta but Gold cards are also exceedingly popular since RTR block was just out and so there is a high probability that even if I hit something in my colors it may be multi-colored. I just wanted to make sure if there was a trick to getting access to as many of their cards as possible, I could do it. Adding Mycosynth Lattice is simple enough and blue has some artifact tutoring and there's always Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas as well.
why not play Nightveil in a 3-color deck, like UGB or Esper colors?
Specifically I'm trying to build a Lazav, Dimir Mastermind deck. If I were just trying to build the best deck possible with him as an inclusion I would probably have expanded the color selection, more than likely to Esper, and added in an artifact sub-theme with a few tutors and a toolbox. But then if I'm just trying to maximize then Nightveil would probably get cut for something like Vampire Nighthawk who is the same 3cmc 2/3 but with much better abilities.
Its really about the theme more than anything. As I mentioned earlier I have a 60 card deck based around Nightveil Spector and Conundrum Sphinx that isn't super competitive but is a TON of fun to play win or lose (though landing a Conundrum Sphinx pretty much seals any game I've played. I just keep naming Crystal Ball til I get one lol.)
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If I understand the rules correctly, unless your opponent's deck matches your colors (at least partially) you will be unable to play the cards the specter exiles.
As I understand it, you cannot generate mana outside of your commander's colors, so unless you are playing 3/4/5 color commander, even lands the specter might reveal would only be able to tap for colorless? Is it just cards in your deck cannot produce off color mana? What if its a card from an opponent's deck, can you use that to produce off color mana? Is that then restricted to the color of the opponent's deck it was taken from? (In the case of something like Prophetic Prism or the like).
Reason I ask is because one of my favorite 60 card decks is a Nightveil Specter/Conundrum Sphinx deck. Its pretty casual but by nature it scales well with my opponent to a point. I'm looking into building a "Lazav's down with O.P.P." deck utilizing Diluvian Primordial, Chancellor of the Spires, Jace's Mindseeker, and Stolen Goods instead of the typical "let's just mill till we hit something good enough to commander damage out with". So, obviously, Nightveil Specters thievery ability came to mind and since I've had so much fun with it so far I considered it for EDH until I started thinking about the rules. In the 60 card deck I just use Prophetic Prism (because of the cantrip) to play anything I pull that I want.
So what's the verdict? If I did use it what would my restrictions be? Are my assumptions correct?
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That's kind of what I thought. How disappointing (not the rule, the card), such a fun card too.
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In general, you don't want to do much during your precombat main phase with Specter in play. Swing, see if you've hit something useful, then make your plays. Then again, that's often a good tactic anyway, depending on the cards you've got sitting around.
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Celestial Dawn too, if you're in white.
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And False Dawn, yes, there are always exceptions. Those three cards aren't the norm, though.
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BBB Two Hundred Zombies BBB
Duel Commander
WR Tajic, Wrath of the Manlands RW
BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
GUB Mimeoplasm, Screw Politics BUG
BR Mogis, God of Slaughter RB
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
The "you control" part of False Dawn is only relevant to how you're getting the white mana in the first place, not how you spend it.
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Not by the wording on the actual card I read the oracle text and it is WAAAAAAAY different from the normal text lol. So yes, I was wrong
BBB Two Hundred Zombies BBB
Duel Commander
WR Tajic, Wrath of the Manlands RW
BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
GUB Mimeoplasm, Screw Politics BUG
BR Mogis, God of Slaughter RB
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
EDH Decks:
B Toshiro Umezawa B
W Mikaeus, the Lunarch W
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-Born BU
BGU The Mimeoplasm UGB
GUW Rubinia Soulsinger WUG
GRB Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper BRG
Still, Nightveil Specter alone is a bit underwhelming. You'll rarely get to use the things exiled by it, except for lands, and when you get something you can cast often it'll die before your next turn if it exiles something of significance to prevent you from using it.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Oh, I'm aware. I have a 60 card deck built around it. I'm adding it mostly because its on theme. I will fully admit its a pet card but it does make for interesting games if it takes even 1 card.
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Exactly. Getting rid of resources your opponent(s) could use against you is always good. Being able to play some of them is just a sweet bonus.
I like the fact that you don't have to play the exiled card(s) immediately. Besides, Blue and Black are pretty popular colors. It's rare to find a table without another deck running one of these colors.
The same is pretty much true for my meta but Gold cards are also exceedingly popular since RTR block was just out and so there is a high probability that even if I hit something in my colors it may be multi-colored. I just wanted to make sure if there was a trick to getting access to as many of their cards as possible, I could do it. Adding Mycosynth Lattice is simple enough and blue has some artifact tutoring and there's always Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas as well.
Specifically I'm trying to build a Lazav, Dimir Mastermind deck. If I were just trying to build the best deck possible with him as an inclusion I would probably have expanded the color selection, more than likely to Esper, and added in an artifact sub-theme with a few tutors and a toolbox. But then if I'm just trying to maximize then Nightveil would probably get cut for something like Vampire Nighthawk who is the same 3cmc 2/3 but with much better abilities.
Its really about the theme more than anything. As I mentioned earlier I have a 60 card deck based around Nightveil Spector and Conundrum Sphinx that isn't super competitive but is a TON of fun to play win or lose (though landing a Conundrum Sphinx pretty much seals any game I've played. I just keep naming Crystal Ball til I get one lol.)
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