Keep a couple of things in mind to maximize your value out of Cabal Therapy. You don't name a card until the spell has resolved. In other words, until after the player with counterspells has decided not to counter it. So don't give away too much information by immediately naming a card when you cast it. Also, the player with counterspells will often choose to allow Cabal Therapy to resolve the first time you cast it unless it is absolutely essential for him to counter it. This is because countering the first casting of Therapy is often card disadvantage for him no matter what he does, since its flashback is practically free for Affinity. Especially if their only counter is FoW. So just because they don't counter it doesn't mean they don't have the counter in hand. Keep that in mind when choosing what you're going to name the first time you cast it with zero information what they have in hand. It might not be wrong to name a counterspell with the first casting, then name whatever else is good in hand with the flashback.
So, ultilizing my list from earlier, what changes would you make for a competitive Affinity deck?
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So, ultilizing my list from earlier, what changes would you make for a competitive Affinity deck?
That's a little hard to say because my current list and your list are pretty different. Different manabases, I have no Stoneforge package, no Arcbound Ravager. I'm on maindeck Tangle Wire, etc.
There are other things I'm fond of (like maindeck Tangle Wire and Phyrexian Revoker), but it's hard for me to say that anything I'd recommend would necessarily be better than what you're running. Or how well it would fit into your list without having to make other changes. I haven't really done testing with sideboard Spell Pierce, for instance.
That's a little hard to say because my current list and your list are pretty different. Different manabases, I have no Stoneforge package, no Arcbound Ravager. I'm on maindeck Tangle Wire, etc.
There are other things I'm fond of (like maindeck Tangle Wire and Phyrexian Revoker), but it's hard for me to say that anything I'd recommend would necessarily be better than what you're running. Or how well it would fit into your list without having to make other changes. I haven't really done testing with sideboard Spell Pierce, for instance.
Cursed Totem?
I'd definitely have to take Ravager out for that... Not something i'm fond of doing, but if Ravager isn't helping me, might as well...
There's a lot of spell-based combo around here (Enchantress, Storm, Belcher) Spell Pierce helps a LOT, I actually got a Belcher player to pay the 2 for his chrome mox, then he ran out of gas the same turn and couldn't get there to cast belcher... Giving me enough time to cast a Chill...lol.
Yeah, Idk about Whipflare anymore, I haven't seen elves in a while... Seems like Cursed Totem would also help me take down MUD too...lol No Metalworker mana, no Goblin Welders... Nice. Gonna get me a set of those.
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This may have been answered already but is there a reason as to why affinity no longer runs ravagers?
Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about, I run Ravager to great success usually. He's not necessary to win, but it really drives it home when he does come down.
I've never seen a Ravagerless affinity deck in Legacy that put up any serious results, other than Tempered Steel.
Maybe someone else can elaborate, I just haven't seen it happen yet.
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Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about, I run Ravager to great success usually. He's not necessary to win, but it really drives it home when he does come down.
I've never seen a Ravagerless affinity deck in Legacy that put up any serious results, other than Tempered Steel.
Maybe someone else can elaborate, I just haven't seen it happen yet.
I've been seeing more stoneforge mystics
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Cunning Spark Mage? $0.10
Basilisk Collar? $5.00
Shooting down a baneslayer angel? Priceless
Trust me, as someone who's played Stoneforge Affinity, it's too slow and clunky compared to true Ravager Affinity... Sure, fetching a jitte or a plating up is all well and dandy. But compared to the sheer offense Ravager brings to the table, the tutoring is easily negligiable.
I fought against a Stoneforge Affinity deck with my Ravager Affinity deck, guess which one won more? Batterskull or Jitte weren't enough to send them over the edge enough to combat a Vault Skirge with Cranial Plating on it or a Ravager sacking everything to get in the last bits of damage needed to kill them.
Plus, Ravager is faster.
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Tundra?! Ok, well when you're sitting on U/W mana, and you really want black, I'm sure you're gonna want a Tundra in there... He goes ABOVE the maximum amount of lands that Affinity runs. 16 is the best number to run. and some number of them should be Glimmervoids...
Plus, he touted it as Budget, not sure how Tundra is Budget, considering it's only the 2nd most expensive original dual...
4 opals AND 4 Drums?
not sure how signal pest is Turbo, considering it needs a turn to come online... Frogmite puts on more pressure than Pest...
Really? Wow, it's so nice to know you'll get eaten alive by anything other than Dredge or Storm... Let's see.
How many decks can reliably answer Canonist? ALL OF THEM.
How many decks can play around Mindbreak? All of them...
Rest in peace?! it doesn't even add to our artifact count... I'd run Relic or Cage over RIP honestly...plus, the inherent disadvantage of needing colored mana for it...
3 chalices is enough.
Really, the rest of the guy's list looks like a stock Affinity list... he didn't really do much innovating at all, besides not using the superior Glimmervoid over Tundra... Tundra...REALLY!?!?!
No manland either... Inkmoth / Blinkmoth are affinity staples now. You should be running SOME number of either... To me, Inkmoth Nexus is an alternate win-con just in case someone pulls off the Lol-7's wurm, or happens to gain a crapton of life... Or, It can be a primary win con killing often on turn 3...
If I played against his list, I would probably win. 99/100 times, I would win.
No disruption, no removal, no reliable counters... This list is all theory-craft and probably has no real numbers under its' belt...
Or maybe SCG is overstocked on Tundras and wants everyone to buy one...
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I take a milder objection to the deck. I don't mind Ethersworn Canonist in the sideboard. It can be played around, but it's still a decent hate card against many decks.
My main objection is the emphasis on white. I think it's unnecessary. Rest in Peace is not the grave hate we want. Period. That leaves Ethersworn as the only possible white sideboard card (and then only at maybe status). I don't think you need 4 Ancient Dens to justify that. Some mix of Glimmervoid and Darksteel Citadel is probably better.
I do think a full 4 Ancient Tomb is overkill. 3 feels perfect in my testing.
The lack of Phyrexian Revoker feels like a shame. That card shuts down so many of our worst problems.
It does feel like a very stock, basic list before any "flavor" has been added. At least he realized the synergy between maindeck Ancient Tomb and sideboard Chalices.
Tundra?! Ok, well when you're sitting on U/W mana, and you really want black, I'm sure you're gonna want a Tundra in there... He goes ABOVE the maximum amount of lands that Affinity runs. 16 is the best number to run. and some number of them should be Glimmervoids...
Plus, he touted it as Budget, not sure how Tundra is Budget, considering it's only the 2nd most expensive original dual...
4 opals AND 4 Drums?
not sure how signal pest is Turbo, considering it needs a turn to come online... Frogmite puts on more pressure than Pest...
Really? Wow, it's so nice to know you'll get eaten alive by anything other than Dredge or Storm... Let's see.
How many decks can reliably answer Canonist? ALL OF THEM.
How many decks can play around Mindbreak? All of them...
Rest in peace?! it doesn't even add to our artifact count... I'd run Relic or Cage over RIP honestly...plus, the inherent disadvantage of needing colored mana for it...
3 chalices is enough.
Really, the rest of the guy's list looks like a stock Affinity list... he didn't really do much innovating at all, besides not using the superior Glimmervoid over Tundra... Tundra...REALLY!?!?!
No manland either... Inkmoth / Blinkmoth are affinity staples now. You should be running SOME number of either... To me, Inkmoth Nexus is an alternate win-con just in case someone pulls off the Lol-7's wurm, or happens to gain a crapton of life... Or, It can be a primary win con killing often on turn 3...
If I played against his list, I would probably win. 99/100 times, I would win.
No disruption, no removal, no reliable counters... This list is all theory-craft and probably has no real numbers under its' belt...
Or maybe SCG is overstocked on Tundras and wants everyone to buy one...
Honestly not sounding like an asshat would of been better trying to get your point across. Its not like he was saying its the best thing ever but its responses like this is why I only come on here when I need some 15 year old information on a deck noones looked at in 20 years.
Can we grow up a little bit and actually make people feel welcomed here instead of alienated 5 year old responses.
Remember not everyone lives in this world like most so can we try to be a bit more civil.
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Decks I play and stuff.
Honestly not sounding like an asshat would of been better trying to get your point across. Its not like he was saying its the best thing ever but its responses like this is why I only come on here when I need some 15 year old information on a deck noones looked at in 20 years.
Can we grow up a little bit and actually make people feel welcomed here instead of alienated 5 year old responses.
Remember not everyone lives in this world like most so can we try to be a bit more civil.
Ok, then try to explain, with civility, EVERY TIME someone posts a SCG decklist with some random crap in it and it's not even optimized... SCG only publishes stuff like that when they're overstocked on a certain card and want to sell them to gullible customers... The more you see it, the more you will get angry, and the less civilized your posts will become... Trust me, I've seen it too many times to be civil anymore.
Tundra....in Affinity, over the obviously superior Glimmervoid... Yeah...Right..
Honestly, I'd like to know how he went 3-1, what decks he played, etc. No way should Jitte be in the Sideboard and not Main. Batterskull?! I don't think a singleton Batterskull and Jitte in the Board can warrant 4 stoneforge in the main.
I'm trying to comprehend his Sideboard choices, Crypt AND RiP? I just wanna say, RiP is NOT the Graveyard hate Affinity should be running. Grafdigger's Cage would be better, honestly, I would just stick with the 3 Crypts and call it good.
Oblivion Ring? Not getting why it's in here. We should be faster than having to deal with anything that O-Ring could hit...
There's more, but I honestly don't feel like commenting right now. I think most of his choices were meta-calls and shouldn't be taken seriously in a broader context. Perish seems like he's preparing to fight Green swarm decks... which would mean elves is popular in his area, etc.
3 Tezz is to many, will go to 2, I want more draw, so thinking about getting some Thirst, ravager is cure and just there to draw counters for plating.
I want to fit in Lodestone Golem, Lodestone Myr would be fun with a mud mana base which I almost want to move to, and AoB pisses me off. Sure hes 4cmc but only the top 5 sucks when I can spend one more for the seeker and get basicly a tinker on a body or more mana out of my opals/drum.
Memnite sucks, is there anything better? God I wish clamps were legal in legacy.
AoB pisses me off. Sure hes 4cmc but only the top 5 sucks when I can spend one more for the seeker and get basicly a tinker on a body or more mana out of my opals/drum.
Memnite sucks, is there anything better? God I wish clamps were legal in legacy.
AoB pisses you off? Well, you know what they say, better to be pissed off than pissed on ^_^.
The reason we play Agent of Bolas over Seeker is precisely because of his ability to swing a game in our favor... +1, pass, -4, Win...
What's not to like about winning the game after untapping with AoB?! Just keep some creatures back to defend him if you're up against agro, etc.
Memnite sucks?! This is the first I've heard of it... he's certainly much better than Phyrexian Walker... a 1/1 beater for free? Free stuff is why I run affinity... and it's why I run Frogmite over Signal Pest. Free is better. You have to have mana to cast Signal Pest... Frogmite, 9/10 you don't need mana to cast him.
Seeker is exceedingly worse in affinity than AoB... They just fill 2 different roles.
Seeker and Thirst? Sounds like you want to play Mono U Tron/Tezzerator...
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Does anyone have a sideboard guide for this deck? I'm not looking for hand holding so much as trying to figure out how the deck works.
Basically, I often look at these lists, see 6 or 7 SB cards you might want to bring in - ie one of the lists in the primer has 4 Spell Pierce and 2 Thoughtseize. But can you remove 6 cards from such a synergistic list?
I really like that and am going to give it a try. He's got a full 12 pack of the higher end creatures (Champion, Master, and Mystic). Although Vault Skirge over Signal Pest seems strange with 8 zero drops.
Been playing this on MTGO. Your mana base is really random, sometimes it produces starts where you're a turn or two ahead, sometimes you just can't cast anything. You also have a lot of bad top decks. In that sense it feels a lot like Modern Affinity.
It does pump out a lot more power than Modern Affinity - Master and Cranial are just ridiculous with artifact lands.
Stoneforge Mystic is iffy here. We really want to play a turn 2 Master or Cranial and just smash face. Mystic slows us down by a turn. I think she really wants to go in a more midrange deck.
Chalice was a house, but just the 4 wasn't enough disruption.
Anyway, I usually at least felt like I was in the games, I wasn't Dredging, and the marginal cost of the deck over the Modern version was less than $50. So I feel pretty good but it needs a lot more testing and tinkering.
Been playing this on MTGO. Your mana base is really random, sometimes it produces starts where you're a turn or two ahead, sometimes you just can't cast anything. You also have a lot of bad top decks. In that sense it feels a lot like Modern Affinity.
It does pump out a lot more power than Modern Affinity - Master and Cranial are just ridiculous with artifact lands.
Stoneforge Mystic is iffy here. We really want to play a turn 2 Master or Cranial and just smash face. Mystic slows us down by a turn. I think she really wants to go in a more midrange deck.
Chalice was a house, but just the 4 wasn't enough disruption.
Anyway, I usually at least felt like I was in the games, I wasn't Dredging, and the marginal cost of the deck over the Modern version was less than $50. So I feel pretty good but it needs a lot more testing and tinkering.
I run 2 copies of SFM in my list along with 4 Plating and 1 Batterskull. I use the SFM for sideboard stuff a lot as well.
I'd be a little worried about casting Tezz off of that manabase since you need two colored mana sources. I'd try to find room for one more glimmervoid.
Maybe-list for tomorrow. Lots of combo, tired of playing dredge.
Personally, I think your manabase is fine. Between the Opals, Drums, Glimmervoids, and colored artifact lands you should be fine. Most games you'll just naturally have a Seat or a Vault in play. Then you only needs one multicolor source after that to solve all your mana problems. That's how the large percentage of games plays out for me.
Make room somewhere in the 75 for Phyrexian Revoker. It wins games. Seriously. I have two mainboarded and I never regret drawing it. It always seems to problem solve whatever I need to buy me the turn or two of swinging with dudes I need to win.
So, I feel kind of stagnated on Affinity, the build I have wins games more often than not, but I want to win on an entirely different level with this deck...
The deckbuilder in me is having a hard time innovating with the affinity shell... Seems more often than not the shell is basically 3/4th's of the deck and there's very, VERY little room for innovation...
So, question is, what would it take to push Affinity to the next level?
To be frank, I've played all these different types of Affinity.
Ethersworn Erayo-lock control.
Etch-blade (Stoneforge - Champion - Jitte combination)
Tempo-breaker (Tangle Wire beatdown)
Swarm (Steel Overseer - Master of Etherium)
Tempered Steel (Eschewing SO and MoE to run TS as a 4 of, making more room for more free creatures.)
Right now, I'm playing a mixture of etchblade and tempo...
Is the innovation dead? Theros literally gave us nothing we could use...
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So, I feel kind of stagnated on Affinity, the build I have wins games more often than not, but I want to win on an entirely different level with this deck...
The deckbuilder in me is having a hard time innovating with the affinity shell... Seems more often than not the shell is basically 3/4th's of the deck and there's very, VERY little room for innovation...
So, question is, what would it take to push Affinity to the next level?
To be frank, I've played all these different types of Affinity.
Ethersworn Erayo-lock control.
Etch-blade (Stoneforge - Champion - Jitte combination)
Tempo-breaker (Tangle Wire beatdown)
Swarm (Steel Overseer - Master of Etherium)
Tempered Steel (Eschewing SO and MoE to run TS as a 4 of, making more room for more free creatures.)
Right now, I'm playing a mixture of etchblade and tempo...
Is the innovation dead? Theros literally gave us nothing we could use...
That is the crux of the dilemma of the deck. The basic shell takes up so much space and you really can't cut back too much on it. You need a certain amount of 0 drop artifacts to turn on early Thoughtcast, Mox Opal, and to use with Springleaf Drum. This simultaneously powers out early threats - Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, Etched Champion, Master of Etherium, etc. - and pumps up Cranial Plating early for quick damage on evasive creatures.
But all that synergy takes up a certain amount of space. There's no getting around it. Your wiggle room is exactly what lands you choose for your manabase and less than 10 other flexible slots maindeck. That's just the nature of the deck.
That said, I think that those flex spots maindeck combined with your sideboard choices make significant differences in how the deck plays out.
I'm a big proponent of Tangle Wire based Affinity. I think that it give Affinity a means of interacting with opponent's board states game 1 which has always been lacking in other builds. Especially when combined with mainboard Phyrexian Revoker. In my experience, the combination of the two in the main is very potent against a lot of decks. And unlike options such as Dispatch, they don't stretch your manabase awkwardly or sit dead in hand in some matches.
Theros almost gave us something in Bident of Thassa. That card can easily outperform Thoughtcast with Affinity's swarm of evasive creatures. But the combination of 4 CMC and double U in the casting cost makes it too slow and cumbersome for reliable, practical use.
Affinity is a deck that rarely gets cards printed that work for it. It needs utility artifacts that are undercosted or cards that work well with large amounts of artifacts in play. Both of these are cards that WotC is cautious about printing.
So, I feel kind of stagnated on Affinity, the build I have wins games more often than not, but I want to win on an entirely different level with this deck...
The deckbuilder in me is having a hard time innovating with the affinity shell... Seems more often than not the shell is basically 3/4th's of the deck and there's very, VERY little room for innovation...
So, question is, what would it take to push Affinity to the next level?
To be frank, I've played all these different types of Affinity.
Ethersworn Erayo-lock control.
Etch-blade (Stoneforge - Champion - Jitte combination)
Tempo-breaker (Tangle Wire beatdown)
Swarm (Steel Overseer - Master of Etherium)
Tempered Steel (Eschewing SO and MoE to run TS as a 4 of, making more room for more free creatures.)
Right now, I'm playing a mixture of etchblade and tempo...
Is the innovation dead? Theros literally gave us nothing we could use...
So, ultilizing my list from earlier, what changes would you make for a competitive Affinity deck?
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That's a little hard to say because my current list and your list are pretty different. Different manabases, I have no Stoneforge package, no Arcbound Ravager. I'm on maindeck Tangle Wire, etc.
At the very least I would make these changes to your list:
SIDEBOARD
-2 Ethersworn Canonist
-2 Whipflare
+1 Chalice of the Void
+3 Cursed Totem
There are other things I'm fond of (like maindeck Tangle Wire and Phyrexian Revoker), but it's hard for me to say that anything I'd recommend would necessarily be better than what you're running. Or how well it would fit into your list without having to make other changes. I haven't really done testing with sideboard Spell Pierce, for instance.
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Cursed Totem?
I'd definitely have to take Ravager out for that... Not something i'm fond of doing, but if Ravager isn't helping me, might as well...
There's a lot of spell-based combo around here (Enchantress, Storm, Belcher) Spell Pierce helps a LOT, I actually got a Belcher player to pay the 2 for his chrome mox, then he ran out of gas the same turn and couldn't get there to cast belcher... Giving me enough time to cast a Chill...lol.
Yeah, Idk about Whipflare anymore, I haven't seen elves in a while... Seems like Cursed Totem would also help me take down MUD too...lol No Metalworker mana, no Goblin Welders... Nice. Gonna get me a set of those.
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Honestly, I don't know what you're talking about, I run Ravager to great success usually. He's not necessary to win, but it really drives it home when he does come down.
I've never seen a Ravagerless affinity deck in Legacy that put up any serious results, other than Tempered Steel.
Maybe someone else can elaborate, I just haven't seen it happen yet.
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I've been seeing more stoneforge mystics
Basilisk Collar? $5.00
Shooting down a baneslayer angel? Priceless
Trust me, as someone who's played Stoneforge Affinity, it's too slow and clunky compared to true Ravager Affinity... Sure, fetching a jitte or a plating up is all well and dandy. But compared to the sheer offense Ravager brings to the table, the tutoring is easily negligiable.
I fought against a Stoneforge Affinity deck with my Ravager Affinity deck, guess which one won more? Batterskull or Jitte weren't enough to send them over the edge enough to combat a Vault Skirge with Cranial Plating on it or a Ravager sacking everything to get in the last bits of damage needed to kill them.
Plus, Ravager is faster.
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I don't pay for SCG Premium... Enlighten us please.
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How is that anything CLOSE to turbo?
Tundra?! Ok, well when you're sitting on U/W mana, and you really want black, I'm sure you're gonna want a Tundra in there... He goes ABOVE the maximum amount of lands that Affinity runs. 16 is the best number to run. and some number of them should be Glimmervoids...
Plus, he touted it as Budget, not sure how Tundra is Budget, considering it's only the 2nd most expensive original dual...
4 opals AND 4 Drums?
not sure how signal pest is Turbo, considering it needs a turn to come online... Frogmite puts on more pressure than Pest...
and I haven't even begun on the sideboard...
4 Canonist
4 Chalice
3 Mindbreak Trap
4 Rest in Peace...
Really? Wow, it's so nice to know you'll get eaten alive by anything other than Dredge or Storm... Let's see.
How many decks can reliably answer Canonist? ALL OF THEM.
How many decks can play around Mindbreak? All of them...
Rest in peace?! it doesn't even add to our artifact count... I'd run Relic or Cage over RIP honestly...plus, the inherent disadvantage of needing colored mana for it...
3 chalices is enough.
Really, the rest of the guy's list looks like a stock Affinity list... he didn't really do much innovating at all, besides not using the superior Glimmervoid over Tundra... Tundra...REALLY!?!?!
No manland either... Inkmoth / Blinkmoth are affinity staples now. You should be running SOME number of either... To me, Inkmoth Nexus is an alternate win-con just in case someone pulls off the Lol-7's wurm, or happens to gain a crapton of life... Or, It can be a primary win con killing often on turn 3...
If I played against his list, I would probably win. 99/100 times, I would win.
No disruption, no removal, no reliable counters... This list is all theory-craft and probably has no real numbers under its' belt...
Or maybe SCG is overstocked on Tundras and wants everyone to buy one...
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My main objection is the emphasis on white. I think it's unnecessary. Rest in Peace is not the grave hate we want. Period. That leaves Ethersworn as the only possible white sideboard card (and then only at maybe status). I don't think you need 4 Ancient Dens to justify that. Some mix of Glimmervoid and Darksteel Citadel is probably better.
I do think a full 4 Ancient Tomb is overkill. 3 feels perfect in my testing.
The lack of Phyrexian Revoker feels like a shame. That card shuts down so many of our worst problems.
It does feel like a very stock, basic list before any "flavor" has been added. At least he realized the synergy between maindeck Ancient Tomb and sideboard Chalices.
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Honestly not sounding like an asshat would of been better trying to get your point across. Its not like he was saying its the best thing ever but its responses like this is why I only come on here when I need some 15 year old information on a deck noones looked at in 20 years.
Can we grow up a little bit and actually make people feel welcomed here instead of alienated 5 year old responses.
Remember not everyone lives in this world like most so can we try to be a bit more civil.
Decks I play and stuff.
Legacy Burn
Modern Mono U Tron
Ok, then try to explain, with civility, EVERY TIME someone posts a SCG decklist with some random crap in it and it's not even optimized... SCG only publishes stuff like that when they're overstocked on a certain card and want to sell them to gullible customers... The more you see it, the more you will get angry, and the less civilized your posts will become... Trust me, I've seen it too many times to be civil anymore.
Tundra....in Affinity, over the obviously superior Glimmervoid... Yeah...Right..
Honestly, I'd like to know how he went 3-1, what decks he played, etc. No way should Jitte be in the Sideboard and not Main. Batterskull?! I don't think a singleton Batterskull and Jitte in the Board can warrant 4 stoneforge in the main.
I'm trying to comprehend his Sideboard choices, Crypt AND RiP? I just wanna say, RiP is NOT the Graveyard hate Affinity should be running. Grafdigger's Cage would be better, honestly, I would just stick with the 3 Crypts and call it good.
Oblivion Ring? Not getting why it's in here. We should be faster than having to deal with anything that O-Ring could hit...
There's more, but I honestly don't feel like commenting right now. I think most of his choices were meta-calls and shouldn't be taken seriously in a broader context. Perish seems like he's preparing to fight Green swarm decks... which would mean elves is popular in his area, etc.
Just my opinion on the matter.
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Also maybe he dident have a glimmervoid to spare, honestly I want to cut glimmervoid, I would rather have tomb in its slot than glimmervoid.
4x Etched Champion
4x Master of Etherium
4x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
4x Vault Skirge
4x Thoughtcast
3x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3x Ancient Tomb
4x Darksteel Citadel
2x Glimmervoid
3x Seat of the Synod
3x Vault of Whispers
4x Mox Opal
2x Springleaf Drum
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Cursed Totem
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Nature's Claim
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Pithing Needle
1x Tormod's Crypt
3 Tezz is to many, will go to 2, I want more draw, so thinking about getting some Thirst, ravager is cure and just there to draw counters for plating.
I want to fit in Lodestone Golem, Lodestone Myr would be fun with a mud mana base which I almost want to move to, and AoB pisses me off. Sure hes 4cmc but only the top 5 sucks when I can spend one more for the seeker and get basicly a tinker on a body or more mana out of my opals/drum.
Memnite sucks, is there anything better? God I wish clamps were legal in legacy.
Decks I play and stuff.
Legacy Burn
Modern Mono U Tron
AoB pisses you off? Well, you know what they say, better to be pissed off than pissed on ^_^.
The reason we play Agent of Bolas over Seeker is precisely because of his ability to swing a game in our favor... +1, pass, -4, Win...
What's not to like about winning the game after untapping with AoB?! Just keep some creatures back to defend him if you're up against agro, etc.
Memnite sucks?! This is the first I've heard of it... he's certainly much better than Phyrexian Walker... a 1/1 beater for free? Free stuff is why I run affinity... and it's why I run Frogmite over Signal Pest. Free is better. You have to have mana to cast Signal Pest... Frogmite, 9/10 you don't need mana to cast him.
Seeker is exceedingly worse in affinity than AoB... They just fill 2 different roles.
Seeker and Thirst? Sounds like you want to play Mono U Tron/Tezzerator...
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Basically, I often look at these lists, see 6 or 7 SB cards you might want to bring in - ie one of the lists in the primer has 4 Spell Pierce and 2 Thoughtseize. But can you remove 6 cards from such a synergistic list?
I really like that and am going to give it a try. He's got a full 12 pack of the higher end creatures (Champion, Master, and Mystic). Although Vault Skirge over Signal Pest seems strange with 8 zero drops.
It does pump out a lot more power than Modern Affinity - Master and Cranial are just ridiculous with artifact lands.
Stoneforge Mystic is iffy here. We really want to play a turn 2 Master or Cranial and just smash face. Mystic slows us down by a turn. I think she really wants to go in a more midrange deck.
Chalice was a house, but just the 4 wasn't enough disruption.
Anyway, I usually at least felt like I was in the games, I wasn't Dredging, and the marginal cost of the deck over the Modern version was less than $50. So I feel pretty good but it needs a lot more testing and tinkering.
I run 2 copies of SFM in my list along with 4 Plating and 1 Batterskull. I use the SFM for sideboard stuff a lot as well.
4 Etched Champion
4 Frogmite
4 Master of Etherium
4 Memnite
3 Ornithopter
4 Vault Skirge
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Cranial Plating
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast
Plainswalkers
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Land
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Glimmervoid
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ethersworn Cannonist
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Oblivion Ring
Looks good.
I'd be a little worried about casting Tezz off of that manabase since you need two colored mana sources. I'd try to find room for one more glimmervoid.
Personally, I think your manabase is fine. Between the Opals, Drums, Glimmervoids, and colored artifact lands you should be fine. Most games you'll just naturally have a Seat or a Vault in play. Then you only needs one multicolor source after that to solve all your mana problems. That's how the large percentage of games plays out for me.
Make room somewhere in the 75 for Phyrexian Revoker. It wins games. Seriously. I have two mainboarded and I never regret drawing it. It always seems to problem solve whatever I need to buy me the turn or two of swinging with dudes I need to win.
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
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BurnR(Legacy)
ReanimatorUB(Legacy)
Ghave, Guru of SporesWGB(Commander)
HumansRW(Standard)
The deckbuilder in me is having a hard time innovating with the affinity shell... Seems more often than not the shell is basically 3/4th's of the deck and there's very, VERY little room for innovation...
So, question is, what would it take to push Affinity to the next level?
To be frank, I've played all these different types of Affinity.
Ethersworn Erayo-lock control.
Etch-blade (Stoneforge - Champion - Jitte combination)
Tempo-breaker (Tangle Wire beatdown)
Swarm (Steel Overseer - Master of Etherium)
Tempered Steel (Eschewing SO and MoE to run TS as a 4 of, making more room for more free creatures.)
Right now, I'm playing a mixture of etchblade and tempo...
Is the innovation dead? Theros literally gave us nothing we could use...
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That is the crux of the dilemma of the deck. The basic shell takes up so much space and you really can't cut back too much on it. You need a certain amount of 0 drop artifacts to turn on early Thoughtcast, Mox Opal, and to use with Springleaf Drum. This simultaneously powers out early threats - Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, Etched Champion, Master of Etherium, etc. - and pumps up Cranial Plating early for quick damage on evasive creatures.
But all that synergy takes up a certain amount of space. There's no getting around it. Your wiggle room is exactly what lands you choose for your manabase and less than 10 other flexible slots maindeck. That's just the nature of the deck.
That said, I think that those flex spots maindeck combined with your sideboard choices make significant differences in how the deck plays out.
I'm a big proponent of Tangle Wire based Affinity. I think that it give Affinity a means of interacting with opponent's board states game 1 which has always been lacking in other builds. Especially when combined with mainboard Phyrexian Revoker. In my experience, the combination of the two in the main is very potent against a lot of decks. And unlike options such as Dispatch, they don't stretch your manabase awkwardly or sit dead in hand in some matches.
Theros almost gave us something in Bident of Thassa. That card can easily outperform Thoughtcast with Affinity's swarm of evasive creatures. But the combination of 4 CMC and double U in the casting cost makes it too slow and cumbersome for reliable, practical use.
Affinity is a deck that rarely gets cards printed that work for it. It needs utility artifacts that are undercosted or cards that work well with large amounts of artifacts in play. Both of these are cards that WotC is cautious about printing.
formely known as Wolf_Cub82
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HumansRW(Standard)
You could look at an Aether Vial deck utilizing multiple powerful artifact 2-drops such as Baleful Strix, Ethersworn Canonist, Phyrexian Revoker, Tidehollow Sculler, Arcbound Ravager, Vault Skirge. Add Stoneforge Mystic, a full set of UWB artifact lands with Mox Opal, Glimmervoid and City of Brass. Throw in Thoughtcast, Cranial Plating and Tezzeret to make use of all those artifacts. Consider a few of the powerful 3 drops (Master of Etherium, Etched Champion), The deck plays out like other vial decks with very powerful end games from Tezzeret and Cranial Plating. I haven't played this kind of affinity for a couple years but it was very good when I did.
Standard: UWR
Modern: RDW, Twin
Legacy: I am 3 Candelabra of Tawnos from being able to build almost any tier 1 or 1.5 deck. Here are the ones I care about right now:
-Aggro: UWR/RUB/WUB/RUG/UR Delver; Affinity; Burn
-Control: Stoneblade; UWr Miracles; UB Tezzeret
-Combo: Hive Mind; Combo Elves; Omni Tell; T.E.S.
Vintage: Grixis Painter
EDH: Rith, the Awakener