I don't think Assemble the Legion is necessary in your list. You already have a ton of ways to win. You could just as easily take that out for a fourth Mortars, Magma Jet, and one or two Hammer of Purphoros since you're running so many lands. Elspeth does basically the same thing as Assemble anyway, only she'll be a lot more difficult to deal with since there's likely to be a lot of enchantment hate postboard to deal with Assemble.
So far, Elsepth has proven to be much more vulnerable pre and post board than Assemble, but I'll keep it in mind. I usually spend the first few turns trading resources, not getting damage, so I like the inevitability of Assemble, and of course the synergy with Purph.
If you're playing Nykthos, Ember Swallower is great because you can make him a Monster pretty early and ride him that way. However, he could backfire with a well placed removal spell.
After watching the videos on Cockatrice, its nice to see that Purphoros/Assemble the Legion really isnt a trap. In the games against Esper Purphoros really showed me hes the real deal. He definantely gives the deck reach late game and hes a nice beater once devotion kicks in.
There's not much i would change now that the set is spoiled.
No Chandra's Phoenix?!! In my testing, i found that Im not really aiming my burn at their dome, but using it more for removal. I also plan on 3-4 Anger of the Gods SB, and those two don't mix. It also sucked as a top deck late. Plus, Purphoros/AtL pushed so much more damage.
Nykthos and Mutavault, in these numbers, didnt cut into my mana at all. Nykthos has been sweet too.
Stormbreath was a house. Card is nuts. Purphoros was sick too.
Aurellia was awesome too, specifically with Assemble.
Is Ash Zealot really the best 1-2 drop this deck has? Why not Soldier of the Pantheon? Attacks the same turn as Ash Zealot with more relevant abilities than hurting them for graveyard spells. Plus, it doesn't lose to turn 2 Smiter where Ash Zealot gets smoked by Smiter.
Or maybe precinct captain? Attacks 1 turn later but has a relevant ability with the whole made dudes theme.
Except that Chandra actually deals damage to your opponent, in addition to possibly drawing you into better spells. If they are low on life and can't deal with her, you just ping them every turn. She may be a slow win condition but she's still capable of actually winning by herself.
I've also been working on Big Boros, but at the moment it's base-white. I haven't decided how many Gods I actually want to use, but there is clearly some synergy between Heliod/Purphoros and tokens. The problem being, that the more you focus on tokens, the less the Gods themselves are activated. In my opinion, the Gods are best when you can consistently animate them every game. Luckily we have Boros Reckoner and either Ash Zealot or Precinct Captain to help animate your respective divine choice.
My list is pretty scattered right now, but it basically involves the following:
As I said, I'm heavy white with a red splash, which allows me plenty of removal while still focusing on a midrange White shell. I'm not sure it's ideal, but it's what I'm currently testing. It's very likely that I'll work on a Purphoros shell with Assemble and Elspeth as well, as I think it has real power. Just needs a few kinks worked out first.
Is Ash Zealot really the best 1-2 drop this deck has? Why not Soldier of the Pantheon? Attacks the same turn as Ash Zealot with more relevant abilities than hurting them for graveyard spells. Plus, it doesn't lose to turn 2 Smiter where Ash Zealot gets smoked by Smiter.
Or maybe precinct captain? Attacks 1 turn later but has a relevant ability with the whole made dudes theme.
The reason Ash Zealot is here is because the heavy red in her CMC is used to turn on Purphoros. She is very effective at pushing damage through early.
One thing that does make Soldier exciting is Pro Multi, and therefore doesn't get Time Walked by Smiter. But we have ways to deal with him in terms of 1 for 1 removal (Mizzium Mortars, Warleader's Helix). Definitely worth considering, but we would have to lean more into white.
Tajic?
For about five minutes, I considered some number of Tajic. He seems really good on paper: indestructible dodges combat damage and Anger of the Gods, if Battalion kicks in he's massive, etc. Tajic into Aurellia is NUTSO (Remember kids, +10/+10), but I stopped considering him.
The Weird fights us, for the most part. It can be an artifical mana dump in a sense later on, but the turn after it's played you want that mana available for some 3cc spell, but you still want to be swinging for more than 1. If you've got the option to swing with something that's got first strike and haste the turn proior, you're probably better off with that.
Updated my list a little bit. It's a tad lighter, so I'm not even sure I belong in this Big Bad Borosborg thread anymore, heh.
so I'm not even sure I belong in this Big Bad Borosborg thread anymore, heh.
Well I'm still toying with the idea of playing Big Red. What Big Boros offers us is:
-More Sideboard options
-Warleader's Helix
-Threats (namely Aurellia)
-Purphoros and Assemble the Legion
Big Red, However,
-More routes and options thanks to high Devotion for Nykthos
-Has the option for playing Burning Earth with little to no drawbacks
-Faster and more consistent mana base
-Chandra's Phoenix card advantage
Big Red is still a possibility. Considering Turn 4 Purphoros as a 6/5 is the deck curving out, so the option is still there.
I like the list aswell. Just not sure about the number of elspeth and chandra. Isnt 4 way too much?
No. Elspeth dies more often than people realize, especially with Hero's Demise out there. Also, she's strong because of her utility. I -3 her all the time. I wouldn't be anywhere near as confident in the fact that I have late game inevitability if I couldn't -3 her and wait to draw another when she dies on a snapback.
Also, assemble is spectacular in multiples. I'm not sure how many times I've played against an aggro opponent, been on low life and go turn 5 Assemble, turn 6 Assemble then just rode them to victory.
My list isn't as aggressive as others, it's a more controlling style of play. For instance, I hardly ever have an active Purphoros as a creature, but I don't care because what he does as an enchantment is why I play him. I use burn and white removal along with creatures that help brick opposition (Reckon/Paladin/Zealot) to stall until I get to haymakers.
This deck certainly looks like it has massive potential in the upcoming standard. I've been thinking about the archetype somewhere between Sedai's list and Redkid's list, in that I like aspects of both.
I am a huge fan of Chandra as a 4 of. Her utility in providing virtual CA is what will help make this deck chug.
Assemble + Purphuros is what drew me in as a huge awesome combo, and Purph also works well with Elspeth.
I'm seeing lots of Anger the Gods in the sideboard, is anyone considering this maindeck? Maybe in a aggro-heavy environment like MTGO? Or is the wall of first strikers enough to hold aggro until the haymakers come down?
That all said, as I can't really test until Theros hits MTGO, I think I'm on this list to open with:
I think this deck has enough of an early presence to survive the aggro and burning tree decks, with a stellar lategame that should take over. Since the deck feels so heavy-red, I found it hard to include Fiendslayer Paladin.
No. Elspeth dies more often than people realize, especially with Hero's Demise out there. Also, she's strong because of her utility. I -3 her all the time. I wouldn't be anywhere near as confident in the fact that I have late game inevitability if I couldn't -3 her and wait to draw another when she dies on a snapback.
.
Well. Thats true. I was worried about her high cost, cause she is expansise to drop and so is assemble. But i guess with those new lands all decks will be s lil bit slower
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As Sedai stated, his deck is more control oriented. His hay-makers are much bigger than mine are, and plays more control.
Mine is a bit more explosive and aggressive, with more reach in the higher end. That style fits my play style much better.
One card that has been giving me problems is Desecration Demon. With out Lingering Souls or Midnight Haunting to hide behind, it's a huge threat...And one that will probably be everywhere given how awesome Bx midrange and control decks look. I'm considering putting more White sources in the deck and changing out my Lightning Strikes for Chained to the Rocks MB. My reasoning is this: the things that Lightning Strike deals with can be dealt with for 1 mana with Chained. It also stops Desecration Demon right away. I'm also considering -1 Magma Jet, +1 Mizzium Mortars. Card has been ridiculous and the cut would be for the same reason. It also kills Blood Baron of Vizkopa outright.
Well. Thats true. I was worried about her high cost, cause she is expansise to drop and so is assemble. But i guess with those new lands all decks will be s lil bit slower
Many decks are, yes. RDW isn't particularly slow and neither is WW. My list is a midrange-control deck though and is designed to get to 6. Between mortars and Elsepth's -3 you have 7 main deck sweepers for aggressive decks, as well as some of the most obnoxious blockers to swing into.
As Sedai stated, his deck is more control oriented. His hay-makers are much bigger than mine are, and plays more control.
Mine is a bit more explosive and aggressive, with more reach in the higher end. That style fits my play style much better.
One card that has been giving me problems is Desecration Demon. With out Lingering Souls or Midnight Haunting to hide behind, it's a huge threat...And one that will probably be everywhere given how awesome Bx midrange and control decks look. I'm considering putting more White sources in the deck and changing out my Lightning Strikes for Chained to the Rocks MB. My reasoning is this: the things that Lightning Strike deals with can be dealt with for 1 mana with Chained. It also stops Desecration Demon right away. I'm also considering -1 Magma Jet, +1 Mizzium Mortars. Card has been ridiculous and the cut would be for the same reason. It also kills Blood Baron of Vizkopa outright.
I don't think 4 Chained is the answer for your style of deck. I think 2-3 is great though. You just don't want removal you can't use to burn face with! You could also sideboard into more Assemble, they're very good at shutting down Desecration demon.
Another option is Chandra's Pheonix + Chandra herself. It's 3 mana a turn to keep the pheonix chump blocking the demon but it's a solid answer.
I think this works better. I cut down out some cards and made room for her.
Also, NO ASH ZEALOT?! Yes. There are reasons.
1.) Along side our burn suite, it is a way to establish board presence early.
2.) Tokens help blank Desecration Demon
3.) DJ Young Pizzy and Mix-master Purphoros are a nice rap duo, son. (2 damage for each token)
4.) Ash Zealot is a fine creature, no doubt. But with flashback rotating, this format won't be able to get the best out of her. At best, she was a 2/2 Haste, First Striker that counted for Devotion. YP+Reckoner+Purphoros is still 5 devotion.
I feel the same way about Ash Zealot, I understand his use, but that last ability doing nothing kinda makes me try and look for replacements. With all the spells in this deck, maybe Young Pyromancer is the way to go?
The dragon is better against B/W midrange as well as UW control, both of which are fairly prevalent at the moment. That, and his list has so much burn and reach, getting 4-8 damage out of nowhere is what he's in the market for. Elspeth is more powerful, but slower.
Also, I think we need a better name than "Big Boros" >.<
I will mostly explain SB package.
- Anger of the Gods obviously against aggro. I'd probably side out 2 Chandras.
- Burning Earth against 3-coloured decks that think they can play terrible manabases in Theros.
- Peak Eruption to blow up any red deck.
- Assemble the Legion as another threat against control.
- Wear // Tear... It's just nice.
26 lands? You really think youll get to fire off Ember Swallower's monstrosity ability pretty consistently?
has anyone tested legion's initiative, purphoros, and assemble the legion all in the same deck? Anyone have a shell? I keep trying to build this thing and I just blank all the time. I'm pretty terrible at building midrange red decks.
Electing to call the deck:
-Big Boros (keeping original name)
-Dogfish Midrange/Control (my favorite brewery has an IPA called Red and White...)
-Something else...?
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So far, Elsepth has proven to be much more vulnerable pre and post board than Assemble, but I'll keep it in mind. I usually spend the first few turns trading resources, not getting damage, so I like the inevitability of Assemble, and of course the synergy with Purph.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
If you're playing Nykthos, Ember Swallower is great because you can make him a Monster pretty early and ride him that way. However, he could backfire with a well placed removal spell.
After watching the videos on Cockatrice, its nice to see that Purphoros/Assemble the Legion really isnt a trap. In the games against Esper Purphoros really showed me hes the real deal. He definantely gives the deck reach late game and hes a nice beater once devotion kicks in.
There's not much i would change now that the set is spoiled.
Here's my latest draft:
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Puphoros, God of The Forge
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Aurelia, the Warleader
2 Chandra Pyromancer
2 Assemble the Legion
4 Lightning Strike
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Sacred Foundary
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
9 Mountain
3 Plains
No Chandra's Phoenix?!! In my testing, i found that Im not really aiming my burn at their dome, but using it more for removal. I also plan on 3-4 Anger of the Gods SB, and those two don't mix. It also sucked as a top deck late. Plus, Purphoros/AtL pushed so much more damage.
Nykthos and Mutavault, in these numbers, didnt cut into my mana at all. Nykthos has been sweet too.
Stormbreath was a house. Card is nuts. Purphoros was sick too.
Aurellia was awesome too, specifically with Assemble.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
Or maybe precinct captain? Attacks 1 turn later but has a relevant ability with the whole made dudes theme.
Except that Chandra actually deals damage to your opponent, in addition to possibly drawing you into better spells. If they are low on life and can't deal with her, you just ping them every turn. She may be a slow win condition but she's still capable of actually winning by herself.
I've also been working on Big Boros, but at the moment it's base-white. I haven't decided how many Gods I actually want to use, but there is clearly some synergy between Heliod/Purphoros and tokens. The problem being, that the more you focus on tokens, the less the Gods themselves are activated. In my opinion, the Gods are best when you can consistently animate them every game. Luckily we have Boros Reckoner and either Ash Zealot or Precinct Captain to help animate your respective divine choice.
My list is pretty scattered right now, but it basically involves the following:
Precinct Captain
Boros Reckoner
Fiendslayer Paladin
Banisher Priest
Tajic?
Firemane Avenger?
Aurelia
Mizzium Mortars
Warleader's Helix
Lightning Strike
Heliod
Elspeth
As I said, I'm heavy white with a red splash, which allows me plenty of removal while still focusing on a midrange White shell. I'm not sure it's ideal, but it's what I'm currently testing. It's very likely that I'll work on a Purphoros shell with Assemble and Elspeth as well, as I think it has real power. Just needs a few kinks worked out first.
RGB Jund BGR
WGB Junk/Abzan Company WGB
LEGACY
RUGB Delver GURB
EDH
UW Geist of Saint Traft Aggro-Control WU
RUG Riku of Two Reflections Combo GUR
BBB Skithiryx Control BB
The reason Ash Zealot is here is because the heavy red in her CMC is used to turn on Purphoros. She is very effective at pushing damage through early.
One thing that does make Soldier exciting is Pro Multi, and therefore doesn't get Time Walked by Smiter. But we have ways to deal with him in terms of 1 for 1 removal (Mizzium Mortars, Warleader's Helix). Definitely worth considering, but we would have to lean more into white.
For about five minutes, I considered some number of Tajic. He seems really good on paper: indestructible dodges combat damage and Anger of the Gods, if Battalion kicks in he's massive, etc. Tajic into Aurellia is NUTSO (Remember kids, +10/+10), but I stopped considering him.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
The Weird fights us, for the most part. It can be an artifical mana dump in a sense later on, but the turn after it's played you want that mana available for some 3cc spell, but you still want to be swinging for more than 1. If you've got the option to swing with something that's got first strike and haste the turn proior, you're probably better off with that.
Updated my list a little bit. It's a tad lighter, so I'm not even sure I belong in this Big Bad Borosborg thread anymore, heh.
Well I'm still toying with the idea of playing Big Red. What Big Boros offers us is:
-More Sideboard options
-Warleader's Helix
-Threats (namely Aurellia)
-Purphoros and Assemble the Legion
Big Red, However,
-More routes and options thanks to high Devotion for Nykthos
-Has the option for playing Burning Earth with little to no drawbacks
-Faster and more consistent mana base
-Chandra's Phoenix card advantage
Big Red is still a possibility. Considering Turn 4 Purphoros as a 6/5 is the deck curving out, so the option is still there.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
I like this list. Just kept a hand with one mountain and one plains, and still managed to beat a B/U list Nightveil Spectre/Desecration Demon list.
I'm willing to help you test this and provide feedback. Let me know if there is something specific you want to try out.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
I like the list aswell. Just not sure about the number of elspeth and chandra. Isnt 4 way too much?
No. Elspeth dies more often than people realize, especially with Hero's Demise out there. Also, she's strong because of her utility. I -3 her all the time. I wouldn't be anywhere near as confident in the fact that I have late game inevitability if I couldn't -3 her and wait to draw another when she dies on a snapback.
Also, assemble is spectacular in multiples. I'm not sure how many times I've played against an aggro opponent, been on low life and go turn 5 Assemble, turn 6 Assemble then just rode them to victory.
My list isn't as aggressive as others, it's a more controlling style of play. For instance, I hardly ever have an active Purphoros as a creature, but I don't care because what he does as an enchantment is why I play him. I use burn and white removal along with creatures that help brick opposition (Reckon/Paladin/Zealot) to stall until I get to haymakers.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
I was thinking about a list with Chandra's Phoenix, but I agree that Fiendslayer Paladin may be just as good. Plus, Chained to the Rocks seems necessary against cards like Desecration Demon.
I will test it out, but I will probably want to:
-1 Assemble the Legion
-1 Elspeth
+2 early removal cards
With all of the Scry in the deck, it should be easier to find the high drops you need....
EDIT: I do like Sedai's point above.
I am a huge fan of Chandra as a 4 of. Her utility in providing virtual CA is what will help make this deck chug.
Assemble + Purphuros is what drew me in as a huge awesome combo, and Purph also works well with Elspeth.
I'm seeing lots of Anger the Gods in the sideboard, is anyone considering this maindeck? Maybe in a aggro-heavy environment like MTGO? Or is the wall of first strikers enough to hold aggro until the haymakers come down?
That all said, as I can't really test until Theros hits MTGO, I think I'm on this list to open with:
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault
1 Nykthos, Shrine of to Nyx
9 Mountain
3 Plains
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Purphuros, God of the Forge
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Assemble the Legion
3 Mizzium Mortars
3 Chained to the Rock
2 Warleader's Helix
I think this deck has enough of an early presence to survive the aggro and burning tree decks, with a stellar lategame that should take over. Since the deck feels so heavy-red, I found it hard to include Fiendslayer Paladin.
I don't know, just my 2 cents.
Well. Thats true. I was worried about her high cost, cause she is expansise to drop and so is assemble. But i guess with those new lands all decks will be s lil bit slower
Mine is a bit more explosive and aggressive, with more reach in the higher end. That style fits my play style much better.
One card that has been giving me problems is Desecration Demon. With out Lingering Souls or Midnight Haunting to hide behind, it's a huge threat...And one that will probably be everywhere given how awesome Bx midrange and control decks look. I'm considering putting more White sources in the deck and changing out my Lightning Strikes for Chained to the Rocks MB. My reasoning is this: the things that Lightning Strike deals with can be dealt with for 1 mana with Chained. It also stops Desecration Demon right away. I'm also considering -1 Magma Jet, +1 Mizzium Mortars. Card has been ridiculous and the cut would be for the same reason. It also kills Blood Baron of Vizkopa outright.
Revised Deck List:
4 Boros Reckoner
3 Puphoros, God of The Forge
4 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Aurelia, the Warleader
2 Chandra Pyromancer
2 Assemble the Legion
4 Chained to the Rocks
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Warleader's Helix
4 Sacred Foundary
3 Boros Guildgate
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
7 Mountain
4 Plains
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
Many decks are, yes. RDW isn't particularly slow and neither is WW. My list is a midrange-control deck though and is designed to get to 6. Between mortars and Elsepth's -3 you have 7 main deck sweepers for aggressive decks, as well as some of the most obnoxious blockers to swing into.
I don't think 4 Chained is the answer for your style of deck. I think 2-3 is great though. You just don't want removal you can't use to burn face with! You could also sideboard into more Assemble, they're very good at shutting down Desecration demon.
Another option is Chandra's Pheonix + Chandra herself. It's 3 mana a turn to keep the pheonix chump blocking the demon but it's a solid answer.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Changes being made:
-2 Chained at the Rocks
+2 Lightning Strike
Revised Deck List 2.0
3 Young Pyromancer
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Puphoros, God of The Forge
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
2 Assemble the Legion
3 Magma Jet
2 Chained at the Rocks
3 Lightning Strike
3 Mizzium Mortars
2 Warleader's Helix
4 Sacred Foundary
3 Boros Guildgate
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Mutavault
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
7 Mountain
4 Plains
I think this works better. I cut down out some cards and made room for her.
Also, NO ASH ZEALOT?! Yes. There are reasons.
1.) Along side our burn suite, it is a way to establish board presence early.
2.) Tokens help blank Desecration Demon
3.) DJ Young Pizzy and Mix-master Purphoros are a nice rap duo, son. (2 damage for each token)
4.) Ash Zealot is a fine creature, no doubt. But with flashback rotating, this format won't be able to get the best out of her. At best, she was a 2/2 Haste, First Striker that counted for Devotion. YP+Reckoner+Purphoros is still 5 devotion.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
Also, isn't Elspeth just better than the dragon?
Also, I think we need a better name than "Big Boros" >.<
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Ive always been a fan of deck names like Solidarity.. ones after bad cards lol.
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)
26 lands? You really think youll get to fire off Ember Swallower's monstrosity ability pretty consistently?
just a rough example:
3 temple of triumph
4 sacred foundry
2 plains
4 ash zealot
4 frostburn weird
4 boros reckoner
4 chandra's phoenix
3 purphoros, god of the forge
4 legion's initiative
3 lighting strike
4 magma jet
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
-Big Boros (keeping original name)
-Dogfish Midrange/Control (my favorite brewery has an IPA called Red and White...)
-Something else...?
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'." -Terrance Fletcher, Whiplash (2014)