I wasn't aware that drafts against the aforementioned crowd should be considered a bye, I think that either you've mixed this up with something else or you think drafting is really easy?
It pretty much is. You are looking at players being sponsored by game stores and .coms. Do you think all these boxes used for their draft testing comes from their own pockets?
The set has already been out less than a month and Sam Black has over 50 drafts done. How do you expect a non sponsored player that would need to dish out all the cost for boxes to draft testing compete with some one that has done 10x the amount of drafts? It is a huge advantage these teams have.
They chose a basically a rouge deck. After day 1 look at the results it put up. No where near what it did on day 1. I expect a lot of people were not prepared for this deck and didn't have a sideboard plan.
All they had to do was not screw up draft which is where they have the biggest advantage because of the number of drafts they can do.
I just want to say Guillaume deserves to win the whole thing. It wouldn't be MtG without him and i'm very glad the best control player in the world keeps rocking.
In a world of overpowered creatures, he delivers the old school style, draw-go, single creature win condition decks of yesterday.
I tried a lot of these devotion decks weeks ago..... and then I just lost of supreme verdict over and over. Top decking cloudfin raptors and feeling sad about it.
Surely there was still a lot of esper control around.
Is it simiply because they are just better at playing? or found a way around losing to the card with extensive testing?
The mono red devotion deck was a thing already and I think perhaps it was what started it all. but the pros took it to the extreme.
The mono green devotion deck is something that I thought was possible... it did well at the SCG open a week ago, just mono green but Mihara added red and went more all in.
A very strange standard format.. particularly with just how big an impact theros has had... normally sets don't shine until the set before rotates.
It pretty much is. You are looking at players being sponsored by game stores and .coms. Do you think all these boxes used for their draft testing comes from their own pockets?
The set has already been out less than a month and Sam Black has over 50 drafts done. How do you expect a non sponsored player that would need to dish out all the cost for boxes to draft testing compete with some one that has done 10x the amount of drafts? It is a huge advantage these teams have.
They chose a basically a rouge deck. After day 1 look at the results it put up. No where near what it did on day 1. I expect a lot of people were not prepared for this deck and didn't have a sideboard plan.
All they had to do was not screw up draft which is where they have the biggest advantage because of the number of drafts they can do.
This is ridiculous. You don't need that many to practice drafting, you can do it for free online, or crack a few, write down the contents, mix things up, etc. I have no idea where your information about PTs or PT testing comes from, but it's not accurate at all.
They didn't just pick a rogue deck, they playetested and designed one while reading the meta. It still performed exceptionally well on day 2.
Of course they're not going to swarm every time, but that deck has...I don't know...other plays? Bident and Specter are great against Verdict decks. Thassa provides continual quality and can turn into a monster at important stages of the game.
I like people continue to say whatever deck they like is probably better despite the best players in the world playing something different. You don't dominate the field that way if your deck isn't good.
It is worth noting that very rarely is the deck that wins the protour the best deck in the format. PT avacyn restored had very little to no jund which became the only deck in the format. The Aristocrats deck that won PT gatecrash didn't go on to have much sucess afterwards although act 2 and Junk did. Pt Dark Acension was won with wolf run ramp which was a solid deck but not delver.
The protour is the second most metagameable tournament in the world so it very different compared to a gp which has a wider metagame.
This is ridiculous. You don't need that many to practice drafting, you can do it for free online, or crack a few, write down the contents, mix things up, etc.
Neither of those methods simulate real drafts or print runs from packs. I know for a fact you cannot take and mix everything up after you write it down to try and simulate a draft.
Take 1 row from a box and then another row from another box and draft with it. You will see things like 6-7 of the same common roaming the tables. An actual draft from a single box will never have those kind of numbers.
Online draft simulators are also very flawed. Its just RNG what you get. I've seen some where I came out with 5 of the same uncommon. Stuff that like isn't going to translate into real world results.
So the pros are trying to break devotion in the face of supreme verdict! Esper is facing down 6 devotion decks! So much fun.
Mono-Blue has proven extremely resilient to control because hitting with an active Bident ends up pushing so many cards that within a turn or two after Verdict the Mono-Blue deck is back with a full board and an active Thassa beating face.
Mono-Black is also dangerous since Erebos is a card draw engine, and the deck runs 4 Underworld Connections as well. Plus, Whip flings destroyed creatures while gaining life, and gets addition ETB triggers from Gray Merchant. And Pack Rat can be whipped back to make tokens, which then rebuild the board state within a turn or two. Not to mention the fact that it runs Thoughtseize and Duress(SB).
Mono-Red is pretty weak to it though, though it can just straight up race, and manage to get there. Then, Burning Earth out of the SB can hurt a lot.
Esper was the single most played deck in Dublin, so if you think that these decks got to the Top 8 without facing more than just a couple Supreme Verdicts, you are delusional. The decks are able to beat it. Don't confuse that with me saying they always beat it, because that isn't true, but the people who think that these decks are beaten by a Supreme Verdict are delusional.
I tried a lot of these devotion decks weeks ago..... and then I just lost of supreme verdict over and over. Top decking cloudfin raptors and feeling sad about it.
Surely there was still a lot of esper control around.
Is it simiply because they are just better at playing? or found a way around losing to the card with extensive testing?
The mono red devotion deck was a thing already and I think perhaps it was what started it all. but the pros took it to the extreme.
The mono green devotion deck is something that I thought was possible... it did well at the SCG open a week ago, just mono green but Mihara added red and went more all in.
A very strange standard format.. particularly with just how big an impact theros has had... normally sets don't shine until the set before rotates.
Decks like RDW and Naya Blitz last season all "fold to Supreme Verdict" as well but yet, these decks do very well and don't have the card draw something like mono U devotion has. Not to mention massive beaters who are indestructible.
Yeah, I think if you play smart and don't over extend like ANY creature based deck against control you'll be fine. I'm sure its' by far the toughest matchup for a deck like this but it's not just an auto lose because someone is playing with a verdict. Creature decks have been playing around Verdicts for well over a year and still continue to do fine, I don't know why it's not different here, nor do I know why the top 8 isn't stacked with Esper control if it's such a favorable matchup against all these decktypes that DID make it to the top8.
Soooo exited to see Wafo-Tapa back in action in this top eight with a well positioned control deck! I'm not saying it will be easy but besides a few problematic cards most of the opposition is not fast enough to consistently get ahead of Esper. His banning was a travesty and seeing him work his way back to the top sticking to a favorite archetype makes this the most exiting top eight for standard in some time. Good luck Guillaume!
Mono-Blue has proven extremely resilient to control because hitting with an active Bident ends up pushing so many cards that within a turn or two after Verdict the Mono-Blue deck is back with a full board and an active Thassa beating face.
Mono-Black is also dangerous since Erebos is a card draw engine, and the deck runs 4 Underworld Connections as well. Plus, Whip flings destroyed creatures while gaining life, and gets addition ETB triggers from Gray Merchant. And Pack Rat can be whipped back to make tokens, which then rebuild the board state within a turn or two. Not to mention the fact that it runs Thoughtseize and Duress(SB).
Mono-Red is pretty weak to it though, though it can just straight up race, and manage to get there. Then, Burning Earth out of the SB can hurt a lot.
Esper was the single most played deck in Dublin, so if you think that these decks got to the Top 8 without facing more than just a couple Supreme Verdicts, you are delusional. The decks are able to beat it. Don't confuse that with me saying they always beat it, because that isn't true, but the people who think that these decks are beaten by a Supreme Verdict are delusional.
Just wanted to say that. Esper was the most played deck in the Pro Tour and there still six devotion decks in the top 8 and only a single Esper Control.
Saying that these decks fall to Supreme Verdict is a pretty questionable statement if you consider that.
Just wanted to say that. Esper was the most played deck in the Pro Tour and there still six devotion decks in the top 8 and only a single Esper Control.
Saying that these decks fall to Supreme Verdict is a pretty questionable statement if you consider that.
I like how in the same breath you say Esper was the most played deck at the PT, but then lump every devotion deck together without seeing any issue.
I also love how everyone keeps chanting the 'most played deck at the PT!' with no context given. It was 46/428 or about 9.4% of the field. You could very easily have played the 10 rounds of swiss and dodged Esper or only played against it once or twice.
watch the deck tech on starcity by Budde and Nassif about the mono blue devotion deck. they bring up a good point actually. with an active bident and a mutavault the deck couldnt care less if the control deck ran X number of verdicts/sweepers. that's why the SCG list ran 3 bidents compared to the 2 in most french lists. theyre contemplating playing 26 lands.
i prefer the maindeck of the SCG team but i'd probably use the SB of the french lists. french lists have ratchet bombs to combat mistcutter hydra. im sure illness in the ranks will be played in the future and incidentally its easily handled by ratchet bombs as well. this mono blue devotion deck is really a beast.
watch the deck tech on starcity by Budde and Nassif about the mono blue devotion deck. they bring up a good point actually. with an active bident and a mutavault the deck couldnt care less if the control deck ran X number of verdicts/sweepers. that's why the SCG list ran 3 bidents compared to the 2 in most french lists. theyre contemplating playing 26 lands.
This.
All three Fish decks beat some of their worst match-ups in the Top 8. This deck has legs and even it's worst match-ups are still around 50/50 just because if you stumble or don't have it it wins so quickly.
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Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
It's a good thing Mono U "cannot win the gauntlet" and will "fold to Supreme Verdict" when it beat up the best Esper Control player in the world 3 games to 1.
It's a good thing Mono U "cannot win the gauntlet" and will "fold to Supreme Verdict" when it beat up the best Esper Control player in the world 3 games to 1.
I love straw man forum arguments
But duuuuuuudddde! I play removal, you play creatures, how can you possibly win? *rolls eyes*
But duuuuuuudddde! I play removal, you play creatures, how can you possibly win? *rolls eyes*
"Foot, meet Mouth."
I don't think Mihara has a very good shot if his deck performs like it did against Rietzl. Unless he explodes on T3-T5, the Fish decks just seem to take the game over, especially post-board.
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Have a helicopter drop you off out front. Light your cigar with a small Indonesian boy holding a black lotus. Then bust out a craw wurm deck with no sleeves. Raw dog shuffle, loose terribly, flip the table, leave in a hovercraft.
I don't think Mihara has a very good shot if his deck performs like it did against Rietzl. Unless he explodes on T3-T5, the Fish decks just seem to take the game over, especially post-board.
The fish deck is really quite impressive.... 3 of them in the top 4? Amazing..
I mean, they did dodge Esper the entire tournament and the guy in the top 4 must never have drawn a verdict in 4 games /rolleyes but otherwise it's a great deck
The fish deck is really quite impressive.... 3 of them in the top 4? Amazing..
I mean, they did dodge Esper the entire tournament and the guy in the top 4 must never have drawn a verdict in 4 games /rolleyes but otherwise it's a great deck
He did wrathed and the mono-blue just played a judges familiar and a nightveil and bashed in for 5 with Thassa the turn after it.
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Focus: Omnath, Locus of Mana EDH.
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Quotes:
It pretty much is. You are looking at players being sponsored by game stores and .coms. Do you think all these boxes used for their draft testing comes from their own pockets?
The set has already been out less than a month and Sam Black has over 50 drafts done. How do you expect a non sponsored player that would need to dish out all the cost for boxes to draft testing compete with some one that has done 10x the amount of drafts? It is a huge advantage these teams have.
They chose a basically a rouge deck. After day 1 look at the results it put up. No where near what it did on day 1. I expect a lot of people were not prepared for this deck and didn't have a sideboard plan.
All they had to do was not screw up draft which is where they have the biggest advantage because of the number of drafts they can do.
In a world of overpowered creatures, he delivers the old school style, draw-go, single creature win condition decks of yesterday.
Surely there was still a lot of esper control around.
Is it simiply because they are just better at playing? or found a way around losing to the card with extensive testing?
The mono red devotion deck was a thing already and I think perhaps it was what started it all. but the pros took it to the extreme.
The mono green devotion deck is something that I thought was possible... it did well at the SCG open a week ago, just mono green but Mihara added red and went more all in.
A very strange standard format.. particularly with just how big an impact theros has had... normally sets don't shine until the set before rotates.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
This is ridiculous. You don't need that many to practice drafting, you can do it for free online, or crack a few, write down the contents, mix things up, etc. I have no idea where your information about PTs or PT testing comes from, but it's not accurate at all.
They didn't just pick a rogue deck, they playetested and designed one while reading the meta. It still performed exceptionally well on day 2.
Of course they're not going to swarm every time, but that deck has...I don't know...other plays? Bident and Specter are great against Verdict decks. Thassa provides continual quality and can turn into a monster at important stages of the game.
It is worth noting that very rarely is the deck that wins the protour the best deck in the format. PT avacyn restored had very little to no jund which became the only deck in the format. The Aristocrats deck that won PT gatecrash didn't go on to have much sucess afterwards although act 2 and Junk did. Pt Dark Acension was won with wolf run ramp which was a solid deck but not delver.
The protour is the second most metagameable tournament in the world so it very different compared to a gp which has a wider metagame.
Neither of those methods simulate real drafts or print runs from packs. I know for a fact you cannot take and mix everything up after you write it down to try and simulate a draft.
Take 1 row from a box and then another row from another box and draft with it. You will see things like 6-7 of the same common roaming the tables. An actual draft from a single box will never have those kind of numbers.
Online draft simulators are also very flawed. Its just RNG what you get. I've seen some where I came out with 5 of the same uncommon. Stuff that like isn't going to translate into real world results.
Mono-Blue has proven extremely resilient to control because hitting with an active Bident ends up pushing so many cards that within a turn or two after Verdict the Mono-Blue deck is back with a full board and an active Thassa beating face.
Mono-Black is also dangerous since Erebos is a card draw engine, and the deck runs 4 Underworld Connections as well. Plus, Whip flings destroyed creatures while gaining life, and gets addition ETB triggers from Gray Merchant. And Pack Rat can be whipped back to make tokens, which then rebuild the board state within a turn or two. Not to mention the fact that it runs Thoughtseize and Duress(SB).
Mono-Red is pretty weak to it though, though it can just straight up race, and manage to get there. Then, Burning Earth out of the SB can hurt a lot.
Esper was the single most played deck in Dublin, so if you think that these decks got to the Top 8 without facing more than just a couple Supreme Verdicts, you are delusional. The decks are able to beat it. Don't confuse that with me saying they always beat it, because that isn't true, but the people who think that these decks are beaten by a Supreme Verdict are delusional.
Decks like RDW and Naya Blitz last season all "fold to Supreme Verdict" as well but yet, these decks do very well and don't have the card draw something like mono U devotion has. Not to mention massive beaters who are indestructible.
Yeah, I think if you play smart and don't over extend like ANY creature based deck against control you'll be fine. I'm sure its' by far the toughest matchup for a deck like this but it's not just an auto lose because someone is playing with a verdict. Creature decks have been playing around Verdicts for well over a year and still continue to do fine, I don't know why it's not different here, nor do I know why the top 8 isn't stacked with Esper control if it's such a favorable matchup against all these decktypes that DID make it to the top8.
Just wanted to say that. Esper was the most played deck in the Pro Tour and there still six devotion decks in the top 8 and only a single Esper Control.
Saying that these decks fall to Supreme Verdict is a pretty questionable statement if you consider that.
I like how in the same breath you say Esper was the most played deck at the PT, but then lump every devotion deck together without seeing any issue.
I also love how everyone keeps chanting the 'most played deck at the PT!' with no context given. It was 46/428 or about 9.4% of the field. You could very easily have played the 10 rounds of swiss and dodged Esper or only played against it once or twice.
Honest question: if protour is second most metagamable, what are you considering first? Local fnm?
Why not?
This.
All three Fish decks beat some of their worst match-ups in the Top 8. This deck has legs and even it's worst match-ups are still around 50/50 just because if you stumble or don't have it it wins so quickly.
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
I love straw man forum arguments
But duuuuuuudddde! I play removal, you play creatures, how can you possibly win? *rolls eyes*
"Foot, meet Mouth."
I don't think Mihara has a very good shot if his deck performs like it did against Rietzl. Unless he explodes on T3-T5, the Fish decks just seem to take the game over, especially post-board.
Sig by ChibiSwan~!
"Well, well, if it isn't the most diabolical haters this side of the Mississippi."
Alters and Commissions at [URL="noodlesndoodlesalters.tumblr.com/"]Noodles & Doodles Alters[/URL]!
The fish deck is really quite impressive.... 3 of them in the top 4? Amazing..
I mean, they did dodge Esper the entire tournament and the guy in the top 4 must never have drawn a verdict in 4 games /rolleyes but otherwise it's a great deck
He did wrathed and the mono-blue just played a judges familiar and a nightveil and bashed in for 5 with Thassa the turn after it.