According to the game, he does! That said, we could safely presume that Dante has only his strongest weapons for the sake of the battle.
And in the history of all the games, not one of his weapons comes close to Drach'Nyen in terms of Power...
Even then you have to get close to Abaddon to even try to combat him...
He's going to see Dante try to parry an attack, then hit him With the Talon...
And BTW, In the DMC games I'VE played, he doesn't carry ALL of his weapons on him at once... he can only use one weapon main and has to switch weapons if he wants to use something else... So he can't go dual-wielding Sparda and Alastor or something like that...
One weapon at a time... given we've only seen him use one weapon at a time...
Also, Chaos lords often RELISH the opportunity to duel with enemy commanders... Hell, it's even in their Codex that they MUST issue Challenges and Accept ALL challenges when issued and when able... Essentially, Chaos Lords like Abaddon, are very, VERY experienced duelists...
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Another question: Has Abaddon ever been defeated in combat? If so, what was the method used? Maybe I just don't understand the scope of his power.
He personally hasn't been defeated in Combat... He's fought his way out of Deteriorating Battles, Usually, he only retreats when numbers aren't in his favor... He's never been "defeated" in combat.
As to the power of Drach'Nyen.
Below the Tower of Silence, he recovered a Daemon Sword of prodigious power, making him Nigh Unstoppable. Since then more Black Crusades have followed, each achieving some dark purpose that even the mightiest sages of the Imperium cannot discern. It is said that He alone has the power to unite the Traitor Legions and finish the treachery begun Ten thousand years ago.
Drach'Nyen: Abaddon carries the arcane Daemon blade known as Drach'Nyen, which contains the bound essence of a writhing and powerful warp entity.
In the 40K universe, Binding a Warp Entity or a Daemon to anything usually means very very bad things for those against them... Warpsmiths bind Daemons to War Engines and create things like Defilers, and usually the Chaos Titans have Daemons bound in them.
I'm currently using the Current Codex for descriptions... I need to find my 3rd/4th edition Codeces for Chaos because they had better descriptions of the weapons and their unfathomable power... Simply put, no one who's come into close combat with Abaddon has lived... While his forces have been forced into retreat, He hasn't been defeated in a duel.
EDIT: Not sure if there have been any Novels following Abaddon, usually if someone escapes CC with Abaddon, it's plot Armor that saves them...
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If he's a one-man-army, why has he bothered retreating? Surely someone with such a significant impact on the battlefield could swing the fray in his forces' favor.
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@Cyouni: If you think Dante's power is not sufficient to penetrate armor, I advise you to read the wiki links on Pandora and Gilgamesh.
Here's a question: Is it possible to somehow knock Abaddon's helmet or armor off?
Pandora would be a bad, bad idea unless Dante enjoys being hit by an automatic miniature RPG.
Gilgamesh maybe. Like I said, I have no idea exactly to what levels the Daemonic Rune ups his defense. But once again, speed becomes the factor.
Another question: Has Abaddon ever been defeated in combat? If so, what was the method used? Maybe I just don't understand the scope of his power.
Not so far as I know. That's probably because losing is generally equivalent to death.
Also, IIRC, the helmet is sealed to the armour unless released. The armour, meanwhile, connects to what's effectively a second skin on the marine. (Don't quote me on this, I'm calling this off memory.)
EDIT: Not sure if there have been any Novels following Abaddon, usually if someone escapes CC with Abaddon, it's plot Armor that saves them...
Not so far as I know, though like I said, the only reference I had was pre to mid-Heresy.
PPE: It's hard to conquer stuff if your forces are being decimated by a larger force. Wrecking stuff by yourself when you're trying to conquer a galaxy only goes so far.
If he's a one-man-army, why has he bothered retreating? Surely someone with such a significant impact on the battlefield could swing the fray in his forces' favor.
Well, even One man Armies can't withstand getting shot up by forces that outnumber you... Even a One-Man-Army in Terminator Armor can be killed by a titan...
Usually though, his retreats have a purpose. He retreated from Terra because he couldn't take on the entire Imperium by himself... He quickly noticed the battle was falling out of his favor, picked up his Primarch's body and fled to safety where he could build up his numbers.
Of course, he led Terminator squads to capture entire planets before the battle of Terra. You'd have to see the forces they were battling against to really understand why he retreated. Sure, he can one-hit fleshy beings and rip apart a tank...but a Titan...an embodiment of the Machine Spirit... That's too much even for him to handle, and there were titans on Terra... The Loyalist forces had done enough damage to the traitor forces to force a retreat.
Trust me though, Terminator Armor can take some extreme punishment and still function flawlessly.
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Been doing some more reading on Abaddon. Apparently "Warp" energy can destroy him. So I think the primary question in this debate becomes: Can Dante and Bayonetta harness Warp?
Presuming "Warp" is a concept that can be applied to all characters in this battle, I think it would be reasonable for this to occur - after all, Dante IS part demon.
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Been doing some more reading on Abaddon. Apparently "Warp" energy can destroy him. So I think the primary question in this debate becomes: Can Dante and Bayonetta harness Warp?
Presuming "Warp" is a concept that can be applied to all characters in this battle, I think it would be reasonable for this to occur - after all, Dante IS part demon.
Both of them would probably be able to harness the Warp.
However, neither of them would be able to harness it with the level of power needed for what you're thinking (unquestioned purity aside). If they were, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because their power level would win it easily. There's a precedent to this, and the guy who did the destroying is here.
Practically all current human power is based off that guy (including human interstellar travel), and he's the basis for the guy who was the basis for Abaddon.
What if they combined Warp power with Devil Trigger (and Bayonetta's equivalent)? After all, Devil Trigger wiped out Mundus, The Despair Embodied, and Arkham.
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I'm thinking that how it'd work would be that Devil Trigger is Dante's use of Warp energy. Even so, I don't think that'd be enough power.
To clarify, the original blast that took out Abaddon's predecessor was the full power of a guy who single-handedly provides the entire 40K Imperium with beacons for FTL travel, and that while being practically dead.
Using the magical energy of an artifact is one thing, Reaching into the Immaterium is another...
BTW, Dante is the Half Demon son of Sparda, who originated in Hell, not the Warp...
Daemons in 40K ARE Warp-Essence, they can periodically take Physical Form to perform Daemonic-Incursions where warp-energy is high. (Say thanks to a Warp Storm)
The Warp is Pure Psychic Energy. Daemons are Psychic Entities...
Dante is not a Psychic Entity... He is from another plane not directly linked to the warp...
To "Use" the warp is essentially to reach your mind into the Warp and TOUCH the essence of a DAEMON... Whose allegiance will solely be WITH Abaddon... And Reaching for external assistance from sentient beings is not allowed... Reaching into the warp is seeking external aid, hence why I didn't choose a Chaos Sorcerer but rather a Planeswalker as Abaddon's ally because Tezzeret doesn't need to reach into the warp to use magic. And Abaddon's Sword has the contained essence of a Warp Entity...
Dante's version of demons are NOTHING like the 40K Equivalent...
The very REALMS are different. IT takes YEARS to master even doing small tasks from within the warp to avoid Self-Harm... If Dante even attempted it, he'd probably explode into a pink-mist from the sheer backlash of touching a Daemon...
Trust me... Dante only has 30 minutes to even begin learning the complicated mechanics of the Warp.. Pretty sure he'd just say "Forget it, too much hassle" and Stick to what he knows best...
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That's not actually correct, because then everyone from the Imperium to the Eldar would be automatically screwed.
However, what is true is that it's incredibly dangerous - they're susceptible to daemonic possession, etc. The relevant article is here. My notes even say that the Warp is inhabited by stuff that can attack you during the short time you draw on its power.
The point I was attempting to make was that the Devil Trigger/whatever Bayonetta uses would count as Warp enough for the purposes of what Iso was considering.
Plaguefather, then why did you include somebody that NOBODY ELSE can defeat unless they have the MacGuffin from that continuity/universe? My attempt to associate Dante/Bayonetta with Warp is to see a parallel in that, because otherwise, according to Word of God in the 40k universe, there is literally nothing that can defeat Abaddon except Warp. If you don't presume that Dante and Bayonetta's magic is based on Warp energy, then what's the point in even having a debate about it? What's the point of not just having Abaddon sweep the ENTIRE consortium of people selected for the team matchups in this versus tournament?
Do you see the problem, here? You might as well just advance Abaddon to the finals if nobody else short of a literal god can defeat him at that point.
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Make no mistake, I definitely believe Abaddon to be beatable. You just need a concussive blast that is strong enough to take out Terminator Armor. I don't share the deux ex machina argument that Plaguefather has that says "If he comes close to defeat than the Chaos Gods will intervene and make him a Daemon Prince incapable of even being defeated by the God Emperor of Mankind".
I view Abaddon as more like just a Warhammer version of Doomsday. Incredibly tough, strong and having some ultra strong equipment. But for all of his incredible physical gifts, he doesn't really have that much in the way of psychic, magical or even intellectual gifts. In my mind he suffers the same weaknesses as any other brute contestant, being that he can't outsmart someone like Iron Man or Dr. Doom.
Dante and Bayonetta just don't have much going for them considering they are just basically a different kind of Kratos/Dante team up. If they can't win through brute force alone, they just aren't winning. And that's why I've been on the Chaotic Genius side of things.
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(On a slight bit of a tangent, it baffles me how Doomsday lost the first round. But that's a discussion for another thread.)
So how powerful a concussive blast are you talking, here?
Well, considering the armor can take a marble building falling on top of it, and is designed to withstand laser blasts from a large war machine, I'd say it would require about as much as it would take to blast through said war machine in order to put a dent in the armor.
Therefore, kicking a bus isn't exactly on bar with that. But say, a punch from super man, a straight gut shot from Wolverines claws, a force storm blast from Palpatine, something that if it can't penetrate the armor, at least cause his body a severe amount of trauma due to the sheer power of a sonic wave or something similar that effects the mind/nerves without needing to necessarily penetrate.
Plaguefather, then why did you include somebody that NOBODY ELSE can defeat unless they have the MacGuffin from that continuity/universe? My attempt to associate Dante/Bayonetta with Warp is to see a parallel in that, because otherwise, according to Word of God in the 40k universe, there is literally nothing that can defeat Abaddon except Warp. If you don't presume that Dante and Bayonetta's magic is based on Warp energy, then what's the point in even having a debate about it? What's the point of not just having Abaddon sweep the ENTIRE consortium of people selected for the team matchups in this versus tournament?
Do you see the problem, here? You might as well just advance Abaddon to the finals if nobody else short of a literal god can defeat him at that point.
I didn't mean to anger you, but in all seriousness, it took the God-Emperor of Mankind to defeat Horus... and Abaddon is a Direct Clone of Horus. "The Clone-Son of Horus Himself"... The Kicker is, Horus didn't have as powerful a blade as Drach'Nyen...
I mean, someone put Kefka in a match, and he actually IS a God... There's no point in arguing that someone could defeat him because he could just wave his hands and kill everyone...including his own teammate because it's "Fun..."
When it comes to Abaddon, you HAVE to beat him through PURE, BRUTE, FORCE. Dante/Bayonetta don't have the power to match his... Obviously, I'm not saying he will make it all the way to the finals, but there are some characters on the list I could see beating him.
As for Intelligence... I wouldn't argue that Abaddon is stupid... He's smart enough to have led 13 consecutive Black Crusades into Imperium Territory, all 13 Successful... Some would say Combat/Military Genius.
About the Warp... beings form in the immaterium based on an emotion. Certain emotions and feelings are so persistent throughout the Galaxy in 40K, Fear, Hatred, Bias, Anguish, Pain... They're felt by BILLIONS of beings on a given day, giving strength to malevolent beings in the warp... In 40K, this is primarily the reason the Warp IS the Stuff of Nightmares... The Imperium has spread its' xenophobic and hate-filled attitude around the galaxy, it was only a matter of time before Chaos gained enough power to dominate the realms of the Warp...
In DMC, I can't see this being the case, it's always "The world's in Danger and I'm the only one who knows!" The warp in DMC universe would be harmless... There aren't billions of Sentient beings feeding the entities every second with their negative emotions... That is cause enough for me to say a DMC universe "Warp" would be rather Tame and harmless to anyone using it and those who it's being used against... The Warp is a Religion in 40K, people also tend to believe it's that universes version of the afterlife... There is no heaven or hell, it's just the Immaterium...
IN the Far future only the strongest survive... There's a reason Abaddon has lived for over 10,000 years. Imagine, 10,000 years of War? No off time, no peace breaks...constant, grim, war...Each victory is more power, each kill is another blessing...
I honestly didn't think he'd get paired up against a Team like CSK... I was hoping for FFV... At least then it's a fair game, Two Godlike beings clashing in a battle for survival... Dante/Bayonetta are a victim of happenstance. Unless they can provide Abaddon with a False Vision from Tzeentch, I don't see them even landing a wounding blow to him. Sure, they can kill Tezzeret... But Abaddon likes using gullible sorcerers as Meat Shields. He's going to keep him next to him so he gets a killing blow when Tezzeret bites it... When Tezz dies, ONE member of CSK is going to die... Out of the two, who's more clumsy?
Just be thankful I didn't choose a Grey Knight... They've got even more protections, especially against Daemons... And they're Psychic, and they have suits with Pieces of the Emperor's Armor in it, and they shoot weapons blessed with the tears of the Emperor... and apparently 10 of them can solo Angron and his Personal Guards...
Could always be worse. Again, I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. Maybe I should have chosen a less powerful Character... But the inherent synergy with Tezzeret was to tempting to ignore. Maybe I should have Chosen Typhus... but then Same problem, no one can get close to him because of the Destroyer Hive... And he's Immortal...
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Well, considering the armor can take a marble building falling on top of it, and is designed to withstand laser blasts from a large war machine, I'd say it would require about as much as it would take to blast through said war machine in order to put a dent in the armor.
Therefore, kicking a bus isn't exactly on bar with that. But say, a punch from super man, a straight gut shot from Wolverines claws, a force storm blast from Palpatine, something that if it can't penetrate the armor, at least cause his body a severe amount of trauma due to the sheer power of a sonic wave or something similar that effects the mind/nerves without needing to necessarily penetrate.
If you can hold out 'til I get home in the morning, I can provide video evidence of Dante being capable of a blast likely to be forceful enough for this outcome to occur.
Edit @Plaguefather: My iPod is being wonky right now but I'll have a rebuttal for you in the A.M. - I'm not upset, for the record.
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"The Mark of Tzeentch is given to the most devoted followers of Tzeentch, the Changer of Ways, and bestows potent psychic powers on the bearer."
Note also the sick regen granted by the Mark of Nurgle.
Edit: I just thought of something. Aside from the Claw of Horus, Abaddon's terminator armor wouldn't count as legendary since it was mass-produced - which would allow Tezzeret to use Copy Artifact or a similar spell to create a duplicate of it for himself.
Some of you have either not voted yet or haven’t made their votes solid, despite weighing arguments on both sides. There’s still time to make up your minds though. It’s going to be a really close match, and every vote counts until Sunday! Go, go, go!
Now would be a good time to ask: any requests for teams you’d like to see in next week’s match?
I would also like to take the time to note that this is probably the first week where both matches are equally interesting and close, and where everyone is being very well-behaved and polite to each other when stating their cases and their votes. Good work, guys! Keep it up. I'm proud of all of you.
I participate yearly in a survival challenge in which I am dropped off in the wilderness with 1 days rations, a knife, and no other supplies, and have to find my way home. This is typically several weeks hiking from civilization.
I have personally killed several bears in the course of this challenge, with the use of snares and other traps.
If you can hold out 'til I get home in the morning, I can provide video evidence of Dante being capable of a blast likely to be forceful enough for this outcome to occur.
Here, here, and here. Check out some of the attacks that he has with the weapon Pandora and Gilgamesh, as well. Your thoughts?
@Plaguefather: So you don't think that Dante and Bayonetta would have access to the full scope of Warp for the sake of continuity overlap? I just don't see how it's reasonable not to expect that. I had something else to add to this but I forgot what it was while I was at work.
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Can Abaddon's armor survive hundreds of gigatons of concentrated force? I don't think so.
From the 40K Wiki:
"Abaddon's extraordinary connection to all 4 of the major Chaos Gods and multiple arcane layers of daemonic protection means that he cannot be killed outright by anything in the purely physical world."
I think that Dante and Bayonetta might be able to triumph over Abaddon by himself. But with half an hour to have Tezzeret magically augment and copy his tech? Not so much.
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As a note, I'm also questioning the use of Climax attacks, as that's equivalent to summoning. If Climax attacks are allowable, then summoning Daemons from the Warp would be as well.
Plaguefather, then why did you include somebody that NOBODY ELSE can defeat unless they have the MacGuffin from that continuity/universe? My attempt to associate Dante/Bayonetta with Warp is to see a parallel in that, because otherwise, according to Word of God in the 40k universe, there is literally nothing that can defeat Abaddon except Warp. If you don't presume that Dante and Bayonetta's magic is based on Warp energy, then what's the point in even having a debate about it? What's the point of not just having Abaddon sweep the ENTIRE consortium of people selected for the team matchups in this versus tournament?
As a note, it says "permanently", as in killing him permanently. Part of the issue with Horus/Abaddon is if they die, they can be resurrected via their link with the Chaos Gods.
It'll monumentally screw over their plans, but in the long run, no issue.
The whole thing with the Warp is to destroy their essence both physically and in the Immaterium - essentially, to obliterate them from existence through all the blessings of the Chaos Gods. And if any opponent could just obliterate opponents from existence like that, they'd be winning no questions asked.
I'll give a note on the meltagun or plasma gun, which is something you'd want to consider. That's the general power of an energy blast required. (If you can figure out a way to objectively measure a lascannon, that'll work too.) However, I'm going to go ahead and guess that a pistol won't cut it.
I'll say Gilgamesh would be roughly equivalent to a power fist, so that would suffice. Pandora probably would as well.
And not to mention all of those attacks (as well as Bayonetta's) require a charge time. No one's going to stand there and watch it happen when they have long-ranged attacks (or even short-ranged ones) that can deal with them easily. Remember the speed factor as well.
Again, I don't see time being a factor if you can take Quicksilver or Witch Time into account. Which we obviously should be, given that they're incredibly useful and versatile abilities.
Edit: Are Climax attacks Bayonetta's thing or Dante's from DMC4?
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And in the history of all the games, not one of his weapons comes close to Drach'Nyen in terms of Power...
Even then you have to get close to Abaddon to even try to combat him...
He's going to see Dante try to parry an attack, then hit him With the Talon...
And BTW, In the DMC games I'VE played, he doesn't carry ALL of his weapons on him at once... he can only use one weapon main and has to switch weapons if he wants to use something else... So he can't go dual-wielding Sparda and Alastor or something like that...
One weapon at a time... given we've only seen him use one weapon at a time...
Also, Chaos lords often RELISH the opportunity to duel with enemy commanders... Hell, it's even in their Codex that they MUST issue Challenges and Accept ALL challenges when issued and when able... Essentially, Chaos Lords like Abaddon, are very, VERY experienced duelists...
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He personally hasn't been defeated in Combat... He's fought his way out of Deteriorating Battles, Usually, he only retreats when numbers aren't in his favor... He's never been "defeated" in combat.
As to the power of Drach'Nyen.
In the 40K universe, Binding a Warp Entity or a Daemon to anything usually means very very bad things for those against them... Warpsmiths bind Daemons to War Engines and create things like Defilers, and usually the Chaos Titans have Daemons bound in them.
I'm currently using the Current Codex for descriptions... I need to find my 3rd/4th edition Codeces for Chaos because they had better descriptions of the weapons and their unfathomable power... Simply put, no one who's come into close combat with Abaddon has lived... While his forces have been forced into retreat, He hasn't been defeated in a duel.
EDIT: Not sure if there have been any Novels following Abaddon, usually if someone escapes CC with Abaddon, it's plot Armor that saves them...
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Gilgamesh maybe. Like I said, I have no idea exactly to what levels the Daemonic Rune ups his defense. But once again, speed becomes the factor.
Not so far as I know. That's probably because losing is generally equivalent to death.
Also, IIRC, the helmet is sealed to the armour unless released. The armour, meanwhile, connects to what's effectively a second skin on the marine. (Don't quote me on this, I'm calling this off memory.)
Not so far as I know, though like I said, the only reference I had was pre to mid-Heresy.
PPE: It's hard to conquer stuff if your forces are being decimated by a larger force. Wrecking stuff by yourself when you're trying to conquer a galaxy only goes so far.
Well, even One man Armies can't withstand getting shot up by forces that outnumber you... Even a One-Man-Army in Terminator Armor can be killed by a titan...
Usually though, his retreats have a purpose. He retreated from Terra because he couldn't take on the entire Imperium by himself... He quickly noticed the battle was falling out of his favor, picked up his Primarch's body and fled to safety where he could build up his numbers.
Of course, he led Terminator squads to capture entire planets before the battle of Terra. You'd have to see the forces they were battling against to really understand why he retreated. Sure, he can one-hit fleshy beings and rip apart a tank...but a Titan...an embodiment of the Machine Spirit... That's too much even for him to handle, and there were titans on Terra... The Loyalist forces had done enough damage to the traitor forces to force a retreat.
Trust me though, Terminator Armor can take some extreme punishment and still function flawlessly.
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To answer this question, let's see what Warp is:
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Warp
Presuming "Warp" is a concept that can be applied to all characters in this battle, I think it would be reasonable for this to occur - after all, Dante IS part demon.
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However, neither of them would be able to harness it with the level of power needed for what you're thinking (unquestioned purity aside). If they were, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because their power level would win it easily. There's a precedent to this, and the guy who did the destroying is here.
Practically all current human power is based off that guy (including human interstellar travel), and he's the basis for the guy who was the basis for Abaddon.
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To clarify, the original blast that took out Abaddon's predecessor was the full power of a guy who single-handedly provides the entire 40K Imperium with beacons for FTL travel, and that while being practically dead.
Using the magical energy of an artifact is one thing, Reaching into the Immaterium is another...
BTW, Dante is the Half Demon son of Sparda, who originated in Hell, not the Warp...
Daemons in 40K ARE Warp-Essence, they can periodically take Physical Form to perform Daemonic-Incursions where warp-energy is high. (Say thanks to a Warp Storm)
The Warp is Pure Psychic Energy. Daemons are Psychic Entities...
Dante is not a Psychic Entity... He is from another plane not directly linked to the warp...
To "Use" the warp is essentially to reach your mind into the Warp and TOUCH the essence of a DAEMON... Whose allegiance will solely be WITH Abaddon... And Reaching for external assistance from sentient beings is not allowed... Reaching into the warp is seeking external aid, hence why I didn't choose a Chaos Sorcerer but rather a Planeswalker as Abaddon's ally because Tezzeret doesn't need to reach into the warp to use magic. And Abaddon's Sword has the contained essence of a Warp Entity...
Dante's version of demons are NOTHING like the 40K Equivalent...
The very REALMS are different. IT takes YEARS to master even doing small tasks from within the warp to avoid Self-Harm... If Dante even attempted it, he'd probably explode into a pink-mist from the sheer backlash of touching a Daemon...
Trust me... Dante only has 30 minutes to even begin learning the complicated mechanics of the Warp.. Pretty sure he'd just say "Forget it, too much hassle" and Stick to what he knows best...
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However, what is true is that it's incredibly dangerous - they're susceptible to daemonic possession, etc. The relevant article is here. My notes even say that the Warp is inhabited by stuff that can attack you during the short time you draw on its power.
The point I was attempting to make was that the Devil Trigger/whatever Bayonetta uses would count as Warp enough for the purposes of what Iso was considering.
Do you see the problem, here? You might as well just advance Abaddon to the finals if nobody else short of a literal god can defeat him at that point.
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I view Abaddon as more like just a Warhammer version of Doomsday. Incredibly tough, strong and having some ultra strong equipment. But for all of his incredible physical gifts, he doesn't really have that much in the way of psychic, magical or even intellectual gifts. In my mind he suffers the same weaknesses as any other brute contestant, being that he can't outsmart someone like Iron Man or Dr. Doom.
Dante and Bayonetta just don't have much going for them considering they are just basically a different kind of Kratos/Dante team up. If they can't win through brute force alone, they just aren't winning. And that's why I've been on the Chaotic Genius side of things.
So how powerful a concussive blast are you talking, here?
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Well, considering the armor can take a marble building falling on top of it, and is designed to withstand laser blasts from a large war machine, I'd say it would require about as much as it would take to blast through said war machine in order to put a dent in the armor.
Therefore, kicking a bus isn't exactly on bar with that. But say, a punch from super man, a straight gut shot from Wolverines claws, a force storm blast from Palpatine, something that if it can't penetrate the armor, at least cause his body a severe amount of trauma due to the sheer power of a sonic wave or something similar that effects the mind/nerves without needing to necessarily penetrate.
I didn't mean to anger you, but in all seriousness, it took the God-Emperor of Mankind to defeat Horus... and Abaddon is a Direct Clone of Horus. "The Clone-Son of Horus Himself"... The Kicker is, Horus didn't have as powerful a blade as Drach'Nyen...
I mean, someone put Kefka in a match, and he actually IS a God... There's no point in arguing that someone could defeat him because he could just wave his hands and kill everyone...including his own teammate because it's "Fun..."
When it comes to Abaddon, you HAVE to beat him through PURE, BRUTE, FORCE. Dante/Bayonetta don't have the power to match his... Obviously, I'm not saying he will make it all the way to the finals, but there are some characters on the list I could see beating him.
As for Intelligence... I wouldn't argue that Abaddon is stupid... He's smart enough to have led 13 consecutive Black Crusades into Imperium Territory, all 13 Successful... Some would say Combat/Military Genius.
About the Warp... beings form in the immaterium based on an emotion. Certain emotions and feelings are so persistent throughout the Galaxy in 40K, Fear, Hatred, Bias, Anguish, Pain... They're felt by BILLIONS of beings on a given day, giving strength to malevolent beings in the warp... In 40K, this is primarily the reason the Warp IS the Stuff of Nightmares... The Imperium has spread its' xenophobic and hate-filled attitude around the galaxy, it was only a matter of time before Chaos gained enough power to dominate the realms of the Warp...
In DMC, I can't see this being the case, it's always "The world's in Danger and I'm the only one who knows!" The warp in DMC universe would be harmless... There aren't billions of Sentient beings feeding the entities every second with their negative emotions... That is cause enough for me to say a DMC universe "Warp" would be rather Tame and harmless to anyone using it and those who it's being used against... The Warp is a Religion in 40K, people also tend to believe it's that universes version of the afterlife... There is no heaven or hell, it's just the Immaterium...
IN the Far future only the strongest survive... There's a reason Abaddon has lived for over 10,000 years. Imagine, 10,000 years of War? No off time, no peace breaks...constant, grim, war...Each victory is more power, each kill is another blessing...
I honestly didn't think he'd get paired up against a Team like CSK... I was hoping for FFV... At least then it's a fair game, Two Godlike beings clashing in a battle for survival... Dante/Bayonetta are a victim of happenstance. Unless they can provide Abaddon with a False Vision from Tzeentch, I don't see them even landing a wounding blow to him. Sure, they can kill Tezzeret... But Abaddon likes using gullible sorcerers as Meat Shields. He's going to keep him next to him so he gets a killing blow when Tezzeret bites it... When Tezz dies, ONE member of CSK is going to die... Out of the two, who's more clumsy?
Just be thankful I didn't choose a Grey Knight... They've got even more protections, especially against Daemons... And they're Psychic, and they have suits with Pieces of the Emperor's Armor in it, and they shoot weapons blessed with the tears of the Emperor... and apparently 10 of them can solo Angron and his Personal Guards...
Could always be worse. Again, I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. Maybe I should have chosen a less powerful Character... But the inherent synergy with Tezzeret was to tempting to ignore. Maybe I should have Chosen Typhus... but then Same problem, no one can get close to him because of the Destroyer Hive... And he's Immortal...
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If you can hold out 'til I get home in the morning, I can provide video evidence of Dante being capable of a blast likely to be forceful enough for this outcome to occur.
Edit @Plaguefather: My iPod is being wonky right now but I'll have a rebuttal for you in the A.M. - I'm not upset, for the record.
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Wait, what?? Abaddon is one of the most powerful psykers in the galaxy.
40K Wiki - Mark of Chaos
"The Mark of Tzeentch is given to the most devoted followers of Tzeentch, the Changer of Ways, and bestows potent psychic powers on the bearer."
Note also the sick regen granted by the Mark of Nurgle.
Edit: I just thought of something. Aside from the Claw of Horus, Abaddon's terminator armor wouldn't count as legendary since it was mass-produced - which would allow Tezzeret to use Copy Artifact or a similar spell to create a duplicate of it for himself.
Well, it's a long story, really, but the thread is still up, and you can always revisit it here.
Tally:
Poll Votes:
Crazy Supernatural Killers - 13
Chaotic Genius - 13
Post Votes:
Crazy Supernatural Killers - 2
Chaotic Genius - 5
Total Votes:
Crazy Supernatural Killers - 15
Chaotic Genius - 18
Some of you have either not voted yet or haven’t made their votes solid, despite weighing arguments on both sides. There’s still time to make up your minds though. It’s going to be a really close match, and every vote counts until Sunday! Go, go, go!
Now would be a good time to ask: any requests for teams you’d like to see in next week’s match?
I would also like to take the time to note that this is probably the first week where both matches are equally interesting and close, and where everyone is being very well-behaved and polite to each other when stating their cases and their votes. Good work, guys! Keep it up. I'm proud of all of you.
How well do you do against one?
Here, here, and here. Check out some of the attacks that he has with the weapon Pandora and Gilgamesh, as well. Your thoughts?
While I'm at it, have the video of Bayonetta punching god into the sun.
@Plaguefather: So you don't think that Dante and Bayonetta would have access to the full scope of Warp for the sake of continuity overlap? I just don't see how it's reasonable not to expect that. I had something else to add to this but I forgot what it was while I was at work.
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Can Abaddon's armor survive hundreds of gigatons of concentrated force? I don't think so.
From the 40K Wiki:
"Abaddon's extraordinary connection to all 4 of the major Chaos Gods and multiple arcane layers of daemonic protection means that he cannot be killed outright by anything in the purely physical world."
I think that Dante and Bayonetta might be able to triumph over Abaddon by himself. But with half an hour to have Tezzeret magically augment and copy his tech? Not so much.
As a note, it says "permanently", as in killing him permanently. Part of the issue with Horus/Abaddon is if they die, they can be resurrected via their link with the Chaos Gods.
It'll monumentally screw over their plans, but in the long run, no issue.
The whole thing with the Warp is to destroy their essence both physically and in the Immaterium - essentially, to obliterate them from existence through all the blessings of the Chaos Gods. And if any opponent could just obliterate opponents from existence like that, they'd be winning no questions asked.
I'll give a note on the meltagun or plasma gun, which is something you'd want to consider. That's the general power of an energy blast required. (If you can figure out a way to objectively measure a lascannon, that'll work too.) However, I'm going to go ahead and guess that a pistol won't cut it.
I'll say Gilgamesh would be roughly equivalent to a power fist, so that would suffice. Pandora probably would as well.
And not to mention all of those attacks (as well as Bayonetta's) require a charge time. No one's going to stand there and watch it happen when they have long-ranged attacks (or even short-ranged ones) that can deal with them easily. Remember the speed factor as well.
Edit: Are Climax attacks Bayonetta's thing or Dante's from DMC4?
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