Wait why have we not lynched vierni yet?
his first post is all "Hi, I'm scum! I am thinking lots and lots about how I'll be perceived and I posted something even though I thought better of it because it's a post and people will think I'm town yepyep!"
unvote: cyouni Vote Vierni
Well I want to say "not really" but then I remembered that I almost ended the post with #YOLO and that would have been asking for votes so I deleted it.
Unvote: Thor665
Vote: Iso (L-4)
Time to see if this is unfamiliarity with meta, or etc.
This is a blatant scum vote. No reasoning provided, pushing right when the momentum is starting to build, and giving himself room to back off with the last bit.
Why would I care about your obviously random vote? My name is far more important (since obviously your name isn't ISO).
Because I am aggressively trying to lynch you whether or not the vote is random, why *don't* you care about that? You're certainly talking about me a lot while not caring, so I sort of feel you do care, no?
You're missing the point. If your vote is random, that means you have no sustenance to your vote. There is no argumentation behind it - only a declaration of intent. You can't expect me to take it seriously if you aren't voting me because you think I'm scum. Additionally, are you suggesting that I'm not "supposed" to question everybody in this game until they're clear to me beyond reasonable suspicion? That's preposterous.
What led to you coming to this conclusion? More specifically, why has it taken you this long to comment on it, if you truly believe your vote?
Why does this feel really artificial?
It's not a line that flows naturally, especially not from you.
Yeah, it's not, and I stated why in response to Cyan. I actually asked Zionite if I could play as BlueElectric instead of Iso before the game began because she has a different Mafia personality than Iso does that I felt would be more suited to what I was trying to accomplish, here. He shot me down and I guess the fact that I was thinking too hard about what I was saying came through in that post. I'm sure it didn't help that I was watching Shutter Island with a friend and having a conversation with them at the same time I was typing the post in question.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
In other news, why do you not wish to support one of the larger wagons?
Is there a particular reason he has to support one of the larger wagons?
He was on the only opposition wagon to Iso (the DYH wagon)
His was the vote that made the DYH wagon one of the biggest in the game (tied for biggest at 3 votes)
By unvoting it and voting me he is actually making a pretty strong move on Iso by default unless he expects a large and powerful run on me - so he started out the day strengthening a wagon, and then changed gears on that and basically handed me, a player he appears to think is scum, control of the mega wagon with no clear competition.
I'm curious why he did that.
Why, do you think he should be avoiding the larger wagons?
You're missing the point. If your vote is random, that means you have no sustenance to your vote. There is no argumentation behind it - only a declaration of intent. You can't expect me to take it seriously if you aren't voting me because you think I'm scum.
I have openly called you scum on multiple occasions. How much do I need to do to get you to take me seriously, and how much do I need to do before you avoiding it is scummy?
Additionally, are you suggesting that I'm not "supposed" to question everybody in this game until they're clear to me beyond reasonable suspicion? That's preposterous.
Actually, I agree...hence why your refusal to address me is a scumtell.
Thank you for noticing, you may self-vote now.
In other news, though I don't now the guy, Iso just admitted to sounding fake due to confused desire to play another persona on this site.
Lynch - with rope.
I promise good things.
Also cookies.
Took a while to notice Vierni was Vi and Kami was DGB.
I blame posting during LoL loading last night.
Vierni being Vi reduces the scumminess, but scum do catch themselves writing things that will look funny more than town and then often hit post anyway because it's hard to generate content as scum and there's a feeling that ignoring your scumcharacteristic filter system will make you look town. So yeah Vierni still sketch.
I found the iso button! Or something like it. It's weird.
Also Iso lynch is probably a good thing.
Took a while to notice Vierni was Vi and Kami was DGB.
I blame posting during LoL loading last night.
Vierni being Vi reduces the scumminess, but scum do catch themselves writing things that will look funny more than town and then often hit post anyway because it's hard to generate content as scum and there's a feeling that ignoring your scumcharacteristic filter system will make you look town. So yeah Vierni still sketch.
I found the iso button! Or something like it. It's weird.
Also Iso lynch is probably a good thing.
While I expected that you didn't know who I was at the time (going it soulless due to LoL influence will do that to you), I'm still waiting for you to turn off the chocolate fountain (tip: twist the bull's tail back to the downward position).
---
Quote from "Thor 49" »
On whose part? Llama's or Iso's?
Mine, dahling. I haven't really bought anything Iso has posted since post 22 and was too deep into a post-influenza headache to work through why exactly, so I threw the vote down and went the pain-mitigating route of not giving an owl pellet.
Also, your second-most recent post suggests cookies aren't good things. :?:
---
Cyouni, vote Iso. It's good for you, makes your wings poofy.
---
To supplement your random animal metaphors, this is a text flag to mark something to be revealed at a later time.
|>
|
Tomorrow I'm leaving for Iceland and will be back on the 22nd. The forecast is for a lot of rain so I will post if I have access to a computer (I am not bringing a laptop).
Because the mindset I'm getting from that response - joking or not - is one of a guilty conscience. The unspoken ":rolleyes:" smiley was just seeping from it.
That feels like a pretty aggressive projection of attitude.
As for his not caring about an RVS vote? I'm not moved either way.
You didn't address the core issue - he wanted to debate me about the name thing, but couldn't even be arsed to question my vote on him. I feel that is faked calmness about the RVS vote, since you think that being overreactive to the RVS vote is an issue why don't you think he is calm/not calm with his RVS vote reaction? Isn't that a tell for everyone, or just me?
"Debate" you? Debate you? That's just overcharged wording, too.
To answer all of the above in a neat, tidy package - I'm far more interested in people who react to RVS votes than those who don't, yes.
Also, the phrases "No offense, but..." and "Don't take this the wrong way, but..." generally preclude things that offend people. So, knowing/admitting that you're blatantly bandwagonning doesn't make it any better.
In other news, why do you not wish to support one of the larger wagons?
Is there a particular reason he has to support one of the larger wagons?
He was on the only opposition wagon to Iso (the DYH wagon)
His was the vote that made the DYH wagon one of the biggest in the game (tied for biggest at 3 votes)
By unvoting it and voting me he is actually making a pretty strong move on Iso by default unless he expects a large and powerful run on me - so he started out the day strengthening a wagon, and then changed gears on that and basically handed me, a player he appears to think is scum, control of the mega wagon with no clear competition.
I'm curious why he did that.
Except that I was never at three votes, so where exactly does that leave this theory?
He does!
I was kinda planning to make mine look like
===[]
ya know?
I probably need to be on his wagon to get points for the tournament thingy though right? In which case I should be trying to make sure I don't let it finish without me?
In other news, why do you not wish to support one of the larger wagons?
Is there a particular reason he has to support one of the larger wagons?
He was on the only opposition wagon to Iso (the DYH wagon)
His was the vote that made the DYH wagon one of the biggest in the game (tied for biggest at 3 votes)
By unvoting it and voting me he is actually making a pretty strong move on Iso by default unless he expects a large and powerful run on me - so he started out the day strengthening a wagon, and then changed gears on that and basically handed me, a player he appears to think is scum, control of the mega wagon with no clear competition.
I'm curious why he did that.
Why, do you think he should be avoiding the larger wagons?
I was wondering what the reasoning was behind that question.
That said, let's look at the possibilities. The large wagons you refer to here were DYH and Iso. They also happened to be completely composed of random votes. On top of that, there's the point that DYH brought up.
On another note, I fail to see how you'd have "control" of the "mega wagon".
Unnecessarily poke at pokes at Iso for the sake of poking -> Iso feels artificial
Also "why does this feel scummy" is never a good sign
"For the sake of poking"? That's nothing but mudslinging, especially since you can't give any evidence for that. The second line's the same.
You can say these things about any lines in the game.
What led to you coming to this conclusion? More specifically, why has it taken you this long to comment on it, if you truly believe your vote?
Why does this feel really artificial?
It's not a line that flows naturally, especially not from you.
Yeah, it's not, and I stated why in response to Cyan. I actually asked Zionite if I could play as BlueElectric instead of Iso before the game began because she has a different Mafia personality than Iso does that I felt would be more suited to what I was trying to accomplish, here. He shot me down and I guess the fact that I was thinking too hard about what I was saying came through in that post. I'm sure it didn't help that I was watching Shutter Island with a friend and having a conversation with them at the same time I was typing the post in question.
Doesn't feel right. How does higher expectations correlate to artificial lines? That line reads like nothing you'd write.
If you were working to fulfill higher expectations, one would expect that you'd be tending more towards your standard style, as that's generally what you'd be best at. There's no reason why you'd be getting an artificial line.
On another note, I fail to see how you'd have "control" of the "mega wagon".
It's true that I always have control of the biggest wagon because my beard grants me powers and abilities beyond mortal men.
That said, he took away a 3 vote wagon and left my preferred 4 vote wagon on the field.
That is a choice being made in the DYH/Iso dynamic in my opinion.
You didn't really address much with this line of questioning, was it going anywhere?
On another note, I fail to see how you'd have "control" of the "mega wagon".
It's true that I always have control of the biggest wagon because my beard grants me powers and abilities beyond mortal men.
That said, he took away a 3 vote wagon and left my preferred 4 vote wagon on the field.
That is a choice being made in the DYH/Iso dynamic in my opinion.
You didn't really address much with this line of questioning, was it going anywhere?
Probably not.
What's your opinion on the point DYH raised regarding the fact that he was never at 3 votes? Also, what about the point that the wagons were (near) completely composed of random votes?
You're missing the point. If your vote is random, that means you have no sustenance to your vote. There is no argumentation behind it - only a declaration of intent. You can't expect me to take it seriously if you aren't voting me because you think I'm scum.
I have openly called you scum on multiple occasions. How much do I need to do to get you to take me seriously, and how much do I need to do before you avoiding it is scummy?
Given that I can't conceive why you would possibly think I was scum so early on, you're going to have to spell it out for me. I'm not avoiding it, you're just not giving me anything to respond to.
Additionally, are you suggesting that I'm not "supposed" to question everybody in this game until they're clear to me beyond reasonable suspicion? That's preposterous.
Actually, I agree...hence why your refusal to address me is a scumtell.
Thank you for noticing, you may self-vote now.
My refusal to address what, exactly? The fact that you have provided absolutely no reasoning for your vote? Pardon me for not taking your vote seriously when I have seen no explanation for why I should. I tend to ignore dumb votes, anyway.
Quote from Thor665 »
In other news, though I don't now the guy, Iso just admitted to sounding fake due to confused desire to play another persona on this site.
Lynch - with rope.
I promise good things.
Also cookies.
Uh, what?
I said that I sounded fake because I had to think more than usual about what I was saying. The fact that I wanted to play as a gimmick was an afterthought.
For reference:
Quote from Iso »
A few reasons. BlueElectric is an entirely different personality in Mafia from Iso - she's less derisive, very polite, and less prone to crazy gambits. It will be a totally different mindset, which will help me keep my games separate. She's a more cautious player and also doesn't have two Mafia trophies (read: less threatening + chibi Rei avatar) under her name.
I'm not crazy, I swear. I just want to be at the top of my game and I feel like my standard dismissiveness will be alien to the MS folks and probably not a good way to earn our team a good name. Yes, I can do all of this on my main account, but if I'm forced to log out and back in before posting, it will definitely help me parse the game better.
Feel free to say no - I realize it's a strange request. Just thought I would ask.
This was in response to Zionite's inquiry as to the nature of my request.
Doesn't feel right. How does higher expectations correlate to artificial lines? That line reads like nothing you'd write.
If you were working to fulfill higher expectations, one would expect that you'd be tending more towards your standard style, as that's generally what you'd be best at. There's no reason why you'd be getting an artificial line.
I'm not sure I fully understand the question. Let me try to answer it anyway.
You should be quite aware that players such as Cyan and yourself don't put much stock into my standard playstyle of "vaguely accuse my scumspects until I get pushed to actually present a case and then try to convince everybody to lynch the people I want dead". That said, we've been thrust into a game with 6 people from a completely different metagame. (See above in my message to Zionite.) My typical play is off-putting, and in a game where half of the players have never played with me, I don't expect to have the clout of reputation strong enough to push the way I generally do. As a result, I opted to play more cautiously than normal. This in addition to a conscious decision to play less erratically due to a comment AsianInvasion made in [redacted because on-going game] has resulted in non-standard Iso play that is apparent to players such as Cyan who have played in several games with me. I'm pretty mad at myself for getting myself run up (from an awful wagon, at that) so early. I mean, I can always revert to my standard play, but that seems counter-intuitive to being less irritating to play with in general to people such as AsianInvasion.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What's your opinion on the point DYH raised regarding the fact that he was never at 3 votes?
When you asked this my response was...whut? What post?
Apparently i missed it - I'll respond to it next and you'll get my reposnse there.
Short version: sarcasm.
Also, the phrases "No offense, but..." and "Don't take this the wrong way, but..." generally preclude things that offend people. So, knowing/admitting that you're blatantly bandwagonning doesn't make it any better.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Thor: I disagree that your point holds. Iso's vote strikes me as an RVS "no intention" banter-vote, and I'm pretty sure Vi's was, as well, given it appeared to be an extension of Iso's "your mom" joke, or maybe my avatar, even.
Now what else exactly do you want me to address about your theory? Wasn't that whole thing directed at Vi? I was simply pointing out the error in your premise which became "oh, no big deal" above; except it is, since it's the foundation of a game-changing decision point you seem to think exists, which didn't seem all that serious to me.
Regarding my stance on RVS reactions: As for whether Iso knows that about me, it's certainly possible; we've played in several games together. I have a pretty big tendency of being a day one bulldog - I find something I don't like, I clamp down, and I shake it around until it's dead. That "something I don't like" isn't usually someone ignoring a vote, for what that's worth.
My biggest issue with the premise of "Iso ignored my RVS vote, ergo, he is scum" is that people who overreact to RVS votes are almost always more often scum than not. I fail to see how that can even be construed as an argument, here.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Wait why have we not lynched vierni yet?
his first post is all "Hi, I'm scum! I am thinking lots and lots about how I'll be perceived and I posted something even though I thought better of it because it's a post and people will think I'm town yepyep!"
So did MTGS get all the scumroles this round or something? I guess the odds aren't that far against it.
Explain why you have all of the bolded above where you have them, please. Especially with reference to:
[1] considering the convoluted nonsense Thor's spewing about Vierni 'handing him control' of a major wagon. (which, as I note below, is additionally inaccurate because at the time, his supposed '3-vote DYH wagon' was only 2 votes, and his '4-vote Iso wagon' was 3 votes large.) [2] considering you voted Vierni in the post I quoted above, and that while you backtracked on that a short while later you still had her as 'sketchy'. [3] considering that Nacho has one post (and now that I notice, Aggressive_Fate hasn't posted at all) that basically said nothing, how do you have him so close to your scum line? [4] what exactly about DYH has you thinking he is scum?
...and I want you to explain why you have KoL so high up on your town metric when she's engaging in avoidance tactics already.
@Kami of Lunacy
You're not answering me. That doesn't make me happy.
Nice try, but no cigar. You had Thor as town on your list along with DYH, yet 'liked' DYH's vote on Thor. That's inconsistent, and the above excuse doesn't even begin to justify that inconsistency.
In other news, why do you not wish to support one of the larger wagons?
Is there a particular reason he has to support one of the larger wagons?
He was on the only opposition wagon to Iso (the DYH wagon)
His was the vote that made the DYH wagon one of the biggest in the game (tied for biggest at 3 votes)
By unvoting it and voting me he is actually making a pretty strong move on Iso by default unless he expects a large and powerful run on me - so he started out the day strengthening a wagon, and then changed gears on that and basically handed me, a player he appears to think is scum, control of the mega wagon with no clear competition.
I'm curious why he did that.
Why, do you think he should be avoiding the larger wagons?
This reasoning is incredibly convoluted and makes little sense. Here's why:
1. Your postulation suggests that Vierni wanted Iso lynched, and decided to do so by.... unvoting someone else's wagon, and immediately voting the person that just voted Iso, which would be you. That doesn't quite seem to parse logically. Granted, Vierni's action of immediately unvoting you when called on it and voting Iso makes that a bit more plausible... but at the time you made the post that Cyouni was asking about that had clearly not happened, nor have you raised that as support in the above.
2. Considering, again, that Vierni was voting you, how in the world does that equate to 'handing you control' of the so-called mega wagon?
That said, he took away a 3 vote wagon and left my preferred 4 vote wagon on the field.
That is a choice being made in the DYH/Iso dynamic in my opinion.
A rather large reason why none of this makes sense in the first place - the DYH 'wagon' was only ever at 2 votes, and at the point Vierni unvoted DYH and voted you, the Iso wagon was at 3 votes, with you being the 3rd vote. You're trying to imply that you have deep and convoluted reasoning here, but when you get miscount something this obvious and fundamental that suggests instead that you're engaging in blatant fabrication.
....two more questions, Thor.
Firstly, if you think Iso is scum, then why are you so concerned about Vierni supposedly 'making a strong move on Iso by default'?
Secondly, do you have absolutely nothing to say about Kami of Lunacy immediately saying she changed her read of Iso to scum in response to you saying that Iso looked like scum to her?.... because that's your only in-thread interaction with her so far.
------------------
Iso is in fact playing markedly differently from how he usually plays, as town or mafia. I'm not entirely certain what to make of it at the moment.
There's also something about Cyouni's back-and-forth with Thor that I'm not comfortable with. Mm.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Probably shouldn't mafia at 4:30 in the morning, just lost my post because I'm stupid. And no, it's not recoverable.
Hm.
This is Town!desCoures. Focused pressure, following through on things, driven push on gamestate. Everything that Redux wasn't.
I don't agree with the premise of the wagon on Iso. Not reacting to early votes is null at best - I'd actually having it leaning town, due to the lack of self-awareness displayed. I can buy his rationale for wanting to play in a more... conventional fashion for the showdown, also - not willing to lynch.
Thor is probably town. Can't state that definitively without meta to back it up, but I like the early aggression, even if I don't like the target.
Going to go somewhere completely different and:
Vote: Nachomama
For this:
Quote from Nacho »
caught all the scum but still didn't vote?
Vote: Kami
Don't like the terseness, don't like the tone. Gut says scum.
llamarble is probably town. Don't like the inconsistencies in reads, but the glib lack of self-awareness is a thing.
Shifting is different from inconsistent.
Being 'tempted to drag out' a tell is dubious.
I don't care about the matters of 2, 3, or 4 votes.
Nacho does not tend to post as much as scum and has yet to post very much.
Kami / Vi are pretty much being Kami / Vi and both make fine sense as town.
Thor has a very good beard.
DYH's posts probably sounded like they come from scum. Don't really remember.
I like that Vox is independent; I don't like that he made it very clear how independent he was being.
Unnecessarily poke at pokes at Iso for the sake of poking -> Iso feels artificial
Also "why does this feel scummy" is never a good sign
"For the sake of poking"? That's nothing but mudslinging, especially since you can't give any evidence for that. The second line's the same.
You can say these things about any lines in the game.
You can say most things about most things. There's evidence behind what I said or I wouldn't have said it.
I'm going to have a lot of difficulty voting you if you turn out to be scum this game. Please don't be scum this game. You didn't actually think that Kami thought there was 6 scum in the game, did you?
My biggest issue with the premise of "Iso ignored my RVS vote, ergo, he is scum" is that people who overreact to RVS votes are almost always more often scum than not. I fail to see how that can even be construed as an argument, here.
Funny, I don't really find that to be true. RVS votes are usually not really that important by any means except when players have a good level of familiarity with one another, so overreacting and overthinking it is usually a good indicator of town. Right now, I am mostly concerned about Cyan's interpretation of scum-ISO and Vierni's "leaving an open door" vote is likely following along the same lines unless the Altaria's feathery wings are weighted down by a scum alignment.
Cyouni, vote Iso. It's good for you, makes your wings poofy.
I don't believe you've given me any reason to. Matter of fact, you haven't given any reason for it.
Oh my. I didn't realize this site's meta was to think for other people.
(You can picture me giving any Victorian "shocked" pose you choose here.)
No response to how you're not denying the post that calls you scum?
I also didn't realize that responding "nuh-uh!" to every "uh-huh!" that comes my way was mandatory on this site as well. That aside, arguing with Thor tends to be a waste of time when I have much more entertaining things to do.
---
Iso, why should I buy into your words and backstory and etc. and more etc.? I mean I get that you're going into your traumatized Mafia past where nobody likes you until they get to know you and that's supposed to be meaningful for why there's just so many mean people who have their votes on you, but why should I think you're Town in this game?
i'm very concerned by the lack of mtgs on this mtgs lynch!
but not so concerned where I'm willing to remove my vote. i would rather talk this one through nice and slow.
This reasoning is incredibly convoluted and makes little sense. Here's why:
1. Your postulation suggests that Vierni wanted Iso lynched, and decided to do so by.... unvoting someone else's wagon, and immediately voting the person that just voted Iso, which would be you. That doesn't quite seem to parse logically. Granted, Vierni's action of immediately unvoting you when called on it and voting Iso makes that a bit more plausible... but at the time you made the post that Cyouni was asking about that had clearly not happened, nor have you raised that as support in the above.
2. Considering, again, that Vierni was voting you, how in the world does that equate to 'handing you control' of the so-called mega wagon?
That said, he took away a 3 vote wagon and left my preferred 4 vote wagon on the field.
That is a choice being made in the DYH/Iso dynamic in my opinion.
A rather large reason why none of this makes sense in the first place - the DYH 'wagon' was only ever at 2 votes, and at the point Vierni unvoted DYH and voted you, the Iso wagon was at 3 votes, with you being the 3rd vote. You're trying to imply that you have deep and convoluted reasoning here, but when you get miscount something this obvious and fundamental that suggests instead that you're engaging in blatant fabrication.
The third one is more of what I was aiming towards, but the other two are good points as well.
I'm not sure I fully understand the question. Let me try to answer it anyway.
You should be quite aware that players such as Cyan and yourself don't put much stock into my standard playstyle of "vaguely accuse my scumspects until I get pushed to actually present a case and then try to convince everybody to lynch the people I want dead". That said, we've been thrust into a game with 6 people from a completely different metagame. (See above in my message to Zionite.) My typical play is off-putting, and in a game where half of the players have never played with me, I don't expect to have the clout of reputation strong enough to push the way I generally do. As a result, I opted to play more cautiously than normal. This in addition to a conscious decision to play less erratically due to a comment AsianInvasion made in [redacted because on-going game] has resulted in non-standard Iso play that is apparent to players such as Cyan who have played in several games with me. I'm pretty mad at myself for getting myself run up (from an awful wagon, at that) so early. I mean, I can always revert to my standard play, but that seems counter-intuitive to being less irritating to play with in general to people such as AsianInvasion.
Fine.
Overall, not an avenue worth pursuing at this point in time.
No response to how you're not denying the post that calls you scum?
I also didn't realize that responding "nuh-uh!" to every "uh-huh!" that comes my way was mandatory on this site as well. That aside, arguing with Thor tends to be a waste of time when I have much more entertaining things to do.
Wait why have we not lynched vierni yet?
his first post is all "Hi, I'm scum! I am thinking lots and lots about how I'll be perceived and I posted something even though I thought better of it because it's a post and people will think I'm town yepyep!"
unvote: cyouni Vote Vierni
Well I want to say "not really" but then I remembered that I almost ended the post with #YOLO and that would have been asking for votes so I deleted it.
What specifically does it say, when cut down to the essentials?
"Vierni's first post is all 'Hi, I'm scum!'"
"I want to say "'not really', but..."
And that's not to mention the blatant bandwagoning vote. Vote Vierni
I'm going to have a lot of difficulty voting you if you turn out to be scum this game. Please don't be scum this game. You didn't actually think that Kami thought there was 6 scum in the game, did you?
Sol's my best character from the Guilty Gear series.
And no, that would be preposterous - the game would have ended literally as soon as it began. I'm simply not used to people dropping others into the scum pile before they've done anything to give indication of their alignment one way or another - usually, they get labeled as null at best. Like a court of law, Mafia is best approached from an "innocent until proven guilty" mindset; otherwise, paranoia will overrun logic and you'll never accomplish much. I'm not saying you shouldn't doubt your reads - far from it, in fact. Players should constantly be re-reading to reestablish their grasp on the game and update their reads based on new evidence and interactions. But conviction is a good thing!
My biggest issue with the premise of "Iso ignored my RVS vote, ergo, he is scum" is that people who overreact to RVS votes are almost always more often scum than not. I fail to see how that can even be construed as an argument, here.
Funny, I don't really find that to be true. RVS votes are usually not really that important by any means except when players have a good level of familiarity with one another, so overreacting and overthinking it is usually a good indicator of town. Right now, I am mostly concerned about Cyan's interpretation of scum-ISO and Vierni's "leaving an open door" vote is likely following along the same lines unless the Altaria's feathery wings are weighted down by a scum alignment.
I disagree completely. Cyan's all but confirmed town to me based on his initial push on me - his catch on the fact that my post was completely unnatural and his reaction to my response to him was perfectly town. RVS votes can give away a lot in terms of mindset - in fact, I've been doing my best to nail people in RVS as of late. I have a fair success rate so far, though I've bumbled a few times, I'll admit. But no, scum are more inclined to overreact to random votes on them because if a townie wants to be cagey, they can create the impression that they're voting somebody seriously in RVS. Town are more relaxed in RVS because it's exactly that - random fun. Scum tend to care more about votes that might not appear random, even if they are, because scum are typically more self-conscious than town. I've seen it happen many times, and can cite examples, if you'd like.
Iso, why should I buy into your words and backstory and etc. and more etc.? I mean I get that you're going into your traumatized Mafia past where nobody likes you until they get to know you and that's supposed to be meaningful for why there's just so many mean people who have their votes on you, but why should I think you're Town in this game?
Given that my past games can't be relevant to the way you view the way I'm playing, I don't expect any of it to be relevant to you, aside from as far as people saying "townIso this" and "scumIso that" goes - though the way this wagon has been progressing should be a pretty strong indicator that I'm town. Let's take a look at it.
First vote on me was DYH. RVS shenanigans, blah, blah, blah. Same with Cyouni.
By doing this I make the largest wagon and also *chose* to do it instead of voting DYH
Sheep me.
I also do support the DGB expy lynch, but I always support a DGB expy lynch.
With fire!
Someone should make that one bigger so I can choose it over ISO for more lulz.
Why haven't we had a lynch yet?
This site is so slow.
Also, what do you think about Iso complaining about how I spell my name but not addressing my vote - or is underreaction a town tell that he would never fake?
Wait why have we not lynched vierni yet?
his first post is all "Hi, I'm scum! I am thinking lots and lots about how I'll be perceived and I posted something even though I thought better of it because it's a post and people will think I'm town yepyep!"
unvote: cyouni Vote Vierni
Well I want to say "not really" but then I remembered that I almost ended the post with #YOLO and that would have been asking for votes so I deleted it.
Unvote: Thor665
Vote: Iso (L-4)
Time to see if this is unfamiliarity with meta, or etc.
3rd vote on the wagon, immediately after Cyan's vote, no reasoning, etc. This vote is a scum vote, as I've already mentioned.
So you don't like the vote because you think he's scum, but rather because he's mean?
No, I do like the vote because Thor is so mean!
However he is correct that you are scum.
vote: Iso
And another scum vote - absolutely no reasoning provided, opportunistic timing, momentum vote, etc. (as I already stated). Before this, Kami displayed absolutely no suspicion of me during the time I was questioning her. This actually reads like Kami is deflecting pressure from herself on to me by throwing her vote my way.
This wagon is full of hot air. Here's my take on things:
Thor665: His posts read in an extremely scummy way to me, but taking an objective step back, based on a couple of things he's said, it's seeming more likely that he's been baiting for reactions to the Iso wagon than anything else. He's also been trying to get me to react to, well, anything, but I think he's just mislead in that respect. It's not enough to establish a solid town read on him but it's a point in his favor.
Cyan: Obvtown at this point for reasons stated above.
Vierni: Scum. No meaningful contributions to the game, bandwagon vote, etc.
Kami of Lunacy: Scum. She's tripping all over herself, making strange stances ("I like the vote on Thor but he's town"), and her vote on me was also awful.
Nachomomma8: Drawing a blank, here. Need more content to determine, though dislike the reasonless vote after not addressing any of my posts except the one where I ask about his avatar.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well now that i've actually read ISO's latest post has all the hallmarks of scum
discussion of mafia theory to add filler? Check.
is inclined to believe Thor's "nonesense" is "baiting a reaction out of me" rather than hores**** scum? Check.
Latching onto DGB as a scumread because shes the easiest person to take that stance on (aka the "wdf is her playstyle lets call it scum because strange"). C-C-CCOMBO CHECK.
I also find it hard to believe you're ready to claim 6 pages into the day ISO and not more outraged at what you would think is a "bull****" wagon
I am outraged, but expressing such isn't going to help the state of the game. I'm confident that once I claim, we can move on from this bull****, but I'd prefer not to if it's not necessary.
Your breakdown of my post is also pretty awful. I don't think it makes you scum but you should probably read what you post before you post it.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You can say most things about most things. There's evidence behind what I said or I wouldn't have said it.
And yet you can't seem to provide it when asked. Amazing how that works.
Didn't != can't. I described the scummy behavior. Going through a first principles explanation of how your post makes you more likely scum wasn't worth giving up reading time.
A consensus that doesn't require much discussion with everyone getting to the same place in their own ways is generally a good thing. Players of the caliber in this game (at least on our end) typically do the work before voting, so when Vi tells me to vote X and gives no explanation I do feel motivated to vote them (or at least do my own research into why a great player like Vi thinks X is scum).
DYH is probably town.
@DYH:
Please clarify "I would find this odd except I doubt there are only two scum and KoL just failed to list her scum buddy."
Kami mixing up cyouni / cyan is a possible tell / link; last time she said that in a game with me she was 'mixing up' Llamarble (her buddy) and Llamafluff (town).
Descoures posting so far is pretty eminently fakeable and pursues lines scum would go for; strong bid for DYH's spot on the scumteam.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Thor continues to spout nonsense about his random vote, probably in an attempt to bait a reaction out of me.
Just pointing out for people - he claims awareness of me trying to get a reaction out of him.
People still want to call him 'playing it cool' as a town reaction?
And ignore that he specifically chose to not respond at all, even though he claimed awareness I was scumhunting him, and decided the pro town move was to mention that I capitalized too much of his name?
Thor665: His posts read in an extremely scummy way to me, but taking an objective step back, based on a couple of things he's said, it's seeming more likely that he's been baiting for reactions to the Iso wagon than anything else. He's also been trying to get me to react to, well, anything, but I think he's just mislead in that respect. It's not enough to establish a solid town read on him but it's a point in his favor.
Translation: "Hey, Thor, admit this is all reaction hunting and back off and maybe I'll call you townz!"
Nachomomma8: Drawing a blank, here. Need more content to determine, though dislike the reasonless vote after not addressing any of my posts except the one where I ask about his avatar.
This is fascinating too - since basically he's calling Nacho scum for a lot of the same reasons I am - meaning he *does* think it's a scumtell, but that my reason to vote him is lolwtgomg.
Descoures posting so far is pretty eminently fakeable and pursues lines scum would go for; strong bid for DYH's spot on the scumteam.
I agree with the idea the actin is fakeable, but...this seems a fairly dramatic negative outlook on an otherwise moderate presence player. Why such a bad vibe? Just because they *might* be faking?
Now what else exactly do you want [I]me[/I] to address about your theory? Wasn't that whole thing directed at Vi? I was simply pointing out the error in your premise which became "oh, no big deal" above; except it is, since it's the foundation of a game-changing decision point you seem to think exists, which didn't seem all that serious to me.
I figured if you had the time to attack my theory you would be interested in seeing my replies and responding to them.
If you were only attacking me as part of a scum mudslinging mission let me know and I'll drop the question.
As for whether Iso knows that about me, it's certainly possible; we've played in several games together.
Do you think this 'no reaction' thing is taken as a generic townish tell in your site meta?
Taking the question one further - do you think Iso has enough brain cells as scum to fake no reaction when he is scum, or would I almost definitely get him to react to it?
My biggest issue with the premise of "Iso ignored my RVS vote, ergo, he is scum" is that people who overreact to RVS votes are almost always more often scum than not. I fail to see how that can even be construed as an argument, here.
"Look at me, I'm Iso, I most assuredly did what town would do, and not a scumtell like what scum would do - the fact that I fully grok this meta then proves I'm not faking it..."
Do you seriously think any overreaction is a scumtell?
I see town do it all the time.
Does that not happen here?
1. Your postulation suggests that Vierni wanted Iso lynched, and decided to do so by.... unvoting someone else's wagon, and immediately voting [I]the person that just voted Iso, which would be you[/I]. That doesn't quite seem to parse logically. Granted, Vierni's action of immediately unvoting you when called on it and voting Iso makes that a bit more plausible... but at the time you made the post that Cyouni was asking about that had clearly not happened, nor have you raised that as support in the above.
I didn't discuss it because there were a couple of ways it could be taken.
The point being is she extroverted a towntell on Iso in reaction to me, but didn't state it and took actions that actually left me in a stronger position to get the town tell lynched - then later decided the town read was really scum or something.
There were probably some interesting things going through her head right then - and since my stance is "I'm curious why she's doing this and am asking questions about it" and not "this is a tell that means - XXX" I don't even understand why I'm failing to parse logically - I haven't advanced a conclusion - I've advanced the idea that it is potentially alignment telling as to why she did what she did.
2. Considering, again, that Vierni was [I]voting you[/I], how in the world does that equate to 'handing you control' of the so-called mega wagon?
Who had lead the biggest wagon after her vote?
Who leads the biggest wagon now?
I mean, maybe none of you here understand how wagons are formed and pushed, but...I mean, results seem to support my stance, yeah? I don't get the confusion. If the Iso wagon had immediately dissipated or something, sure, but it didn't. Maybe I'm just darn lucky and guessed what reality would be in a few days...or something...?
3. [snip] A rather large reason why none of this makes sense in the first place - the DYH 'wagon' was only ever at 2 votes, and at the point Vierni unvoted DYH and voted you, the Iso wagon was at 3 votes, [I]with you being the 3rd vote.[/I] You're trying to imply that you have deep and convoluted reasoning here, but when you get miscount something this obvious and fundamental that suggests instead that you're engaging in blatant fabrication.
I am fascinated that me recalling the specific vote counts (a 1 vote switch) is being touted as proof I messed stuff up...when apparently if I had pegged the numbers correctly there would be no issue. What you are arguing here is either I have a bad memory and that somehow invalidates everything (and, it doesn't - heck, for all you know I have number dyslexia [I do] and you're somehow suggesting that defeats my ability to assess logic [it doesn't]
That is a flawed attack.
The other argument you're making is that I had a point...but because the numbers were off my point is slightly weaker on some scale then it would have been if the numbers were correct. Even if this is so, it fails to defeat my point.
Secondly, do you have absolutely nothing to say about Kami of Lunacy immediately saying she changed her read of Iso to scum in response to you saying that Iso looked like scum to her?.... because that's your only in-thread interaction with her so far.
Oh, hey, look, I come from the same site DGB does, maybe I have knowledge about her meta that you don't.
No, I do not question that. Wait about three RL days and she'll call me scum because I typed out *sigh* or something.
She's a default permanent policy lynch till proven otherwise with me on MS - I see little value in scumhunting her because she thinks logic is teh scumz!
Give it a day or two and maybe you'll agree and we can do that policy lynch, let me know.
i'm very concerned by the lack of mtgs on this mtgs lynch!
but not so concerned where I'm willing to remove my vote. i would rather talk this one through nice and slow.
I presume it's due to lack of familiarity with me - the MS people are more prone to belief in beard than the MtG lads. Yeah?
Thor continues to spout nonsense about his random vote, probably in an attempt to bait a reaction out of me.
Just pointing out for people - he claims awareness of me trying to get a reaction out of him.
People still want to call him 'playing it cool' as a town reaction?
And ignore that he specifically chose to not respond at all, even though he claimed awareness I was scumhunting him, and decided the pro town move was to mention that I capitalized too much of his name?
I didn't notice you were attempting to potentially bait me for a reaction until I re-read during my wagon analysis. Thank you for the misrep, sir, may I have another?
Thor665: His posts read in an extremely scummy way to me, but taking an objective step back, based on a couple of things he's said, it's seeming more likely that he's been baiting for reactions to the Iso wagon than anything else. He's also been trying to get me to react to, well, anything, but I think he's just mislead in that respect. It's not enough to establish a solid town read on him but it's a point in his favor.
Translation: "Hey, Thor, admit this is all reaction hunting and back off and maybe I'll call you townz!"
I see you have the blinders on. Good to know you're going to be useless for the remainder of the game.
Nachomomma8: Drawing a blank, here. Need more content to determine, though dislike the reasonless vote after not addressing any of my posts except the one where I ask about his avatar.
This is fascinating too - since basically he's calling Nacho scum for a lot of the same reasons I am - meaning he *does* think it's a scumtell, but that my reason to vote him is lolwtgomg.
Don't buy it.
You may all sheep me now.
Um, what? I didn't call Nacho scum. I said I disliked his vote but that he needed more content.
Because I want to understand what DYH is thinking as they create their read of you - I thought that was obvious.
Given that DYH can't possibly know for certain whether or not I know that about him, I can't fathom how you could possibly ascertain this line of questioning would be even relatively fruitful.
My biggest issue with the premise of "Iso ignored my RVS vote, ergo, he is scum" is that people who overreact to RVS votes are almost always more often scum than not. I fail to see how that can even be construed as an argument, here.
"Look at me, I'm Iso, I most assuredly did what town would do, and not a scumtell like what scum would do - the fact that I fully grok this meta then proves I'm not faking it..."
Do you seriously think any overreaction is a scumtell?
I see town do it all the time.
Does that not happen here?
Yes, how dare I not make an anti-town reaction to your post!
No, it really doesn't. Scum do meltdowns in RVS. Town don't.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
[QUOTE=Thor665;/comments/12581254]I didn't notice you were attempting to potentially bait me for a reaction until I re-read during my wagon analysis. Thank you for the misrep, sir, may I have another?
It took a re-read for you to consider that me calling it scummy how you dodged giving a reaction was me looking for a reaction from you?
Um, what? I didn't call Nacho scum. I said I disliked his vote but that he needed more content.
My bad, I didn't realize that in addition to the scum and town scales there was a dislike and like scale (that had no bearing on town or scumminess) wherein we compete for popularity points.
Given that DYH can't possibly know for certain whether or not I know that about him, I can't fathom how you could possibly ascertain this line of questioning would be even relatively fruitful.
I am finding it fruitful.
Why does it bother you so much that I'm asking other players their opinion of your playstyle? That seems an exceedingly normal question avenue.
This is a blatant scum vote. No reasoning provided, pushing right when the momentum is starting to build, and giving himself room to back off with the last bit.
Unvote, Vote Vierni
This vote's not much better.
You're missing the point. If your vote is random, that means you have no sustenance to your vote. There is no argumentation behind it - only a declaration of intent. You can't expect me to take it seriously if you aren't voting me because you think I'm scum. Additionally, are you suggesting that I'm not "supposed" to question everybody in this game until they're clear to me beyond reasonable suspicion? That's preposterous.
What changed?
Yeah, it's not, and I stated why in response to Cyan. I actually asked Zionite if I could play as BlueElectric instead of Iso before the game began because she has a different Mafia personality than Iso does that I felt would be more suited to what I was trying to accomplish, here. He shot me down and I guess the fact that I was thinking too hard about what I was saying came through in that post. I'm sure it didn't help that I was watching Shutter Island with a friend and having a conversation with them at the same time I was typing the post in question.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's like you and Iso are fighting to get my vote.
He was on the only opposition wagon to Iso (the DYH wagon)
His was the vote that made the DYH wagon one of the biggest in the game (tied for biggest at 3 votes)
By unvoting it and voting me he is actually making a pretty strong move on Iso by default unless he expects a large and powerful run on me - so he started out the day strengthening a wagon, and then changed gears on that and basically handed me, a player he appears to think is scum, control of the mega wagon with no clear competition.
I'm curious why he did that.
Why, do you think he should be avoiding the larger wagons?
I have already done so, his reaction to my vote - which part confuses you?
Do you have a read on Iso currently?
One on DYH would also be swell.
I have openly called you scum on multiple occasions. How much do I need to do to get you to take me seriously, and how much do I need to do before you avoiding it is scummy?
Actually, I agree...hence why your refusal to address me is a scumtell.
Thank you for noticing, you may self-vote now.
In other news, though I don't now the guy, Iso just admitted to sounding fake due to confused desire to play another persona on this site.
Lynch - with rope.
I promise good things.
Also cookies.
I blame posting during LoL loading last night.
Vierni being Vi reduces the scumminess, but scum do catch themselves writing things that will look funny more than town and then often hit post anyway because it's hard to generate content as scum and there's a feeling that ignoring your scumcharacteristic filter system will make you look town. So yeah Vierni still sketch.
I found the iso button! Or something like it. It's weird.
Also Iso lynch is probably a good thing.
---
Mine, dahling. I haven't really bought anything Iso has posted since post 22 and was too deep into a post-influenza headache to work through why exactly, so I threw the vote down and went the pain-mitigating route of not giving an owl pellet.
Also, your second-most recent post suggests cookies aren't good things. :?:
---
Cyouni, vote Iso. It's good for you, makes your wings poofy.
---
To supplement your random animal metaphors, this is a text flag to mark something to be revealed at a later time.
|>
|
"Debate" you? Debate you? That's just overcharged wording, too.
To answer all of the above in a neat, tidy package - I'm far more interested in people who react to RVS votes than those who don't, yes.
Also, the phrases "No offense, but..." and "Don't take this the wrong way, but..." generally preclude things that offend people. So, knowing/admitting that you're blatantly bandwagonning doesn't make it any better.
Except that I was never at three votes, so where exactly does that leave this theory?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
They're not, they're great things.
Also, I still don't feel like you've really addressed your DYH -> Thor -> Iso move yet.
Care to?
Llamarble
Thor
Cyan
Kami of Lunacy
Vierni
Voxxicus
Aggressive_Fate
Descoures
Nacho
DYH
Cyouni
ISO
SCUM
So did MTGS get all the scumroles this round or something? I guess the odds aren't that far against it.
I was kinda planning to make mine look like
===[]
ya know?
I probably need to be on his wagon to get points for the tournament thingy though right? In which case I should be trying to make sure I don't let it finish without me?
Unnecessarily poke at pokes at Iso for the sake of poking -> Iso feels artificial
Also "why does this feel scummy" is never a good sign
Unvote: Vierni
Vote: Cyouni
Maybe I'll take up a holding pattern here till hammertime; I do feel like somebody should be voting this guy.
That said, let's look at the possibilities. The large wagons you refer to here were DYH and Iso. They also happened to be completely composed of random votes. On top of that, there's the point that DYH brought up.
On another note, I fail to see how you'd have "control" of the "mega wagon".
Iso's looking odd right now. Pending.
I find myself agreeing with DYH, but that means little for his alignment.
I don't believe you've given me any reason to. Matter of fact, you haven't given any reason for it.
No response to how you're not denying the post that calls you scum?
"For the sake of poking"? That's nothing but mudslinging, especially since you can't give any evidence for that. The second line's the same.
You can say these things about any lines in the game.
It was a random vote?
Doesn't feel right. How does higher expectations correlate to artificial lines? That line reads like nothing you'd write.
If you were working to fulfill higher expectations, one would expect that you'd be tending more towards your standard style, as that's generally what you'd be best at. There's no reason why you'd be getting an artificial line.
It's true that I always have control of the biggest wagon because my beard grants me powers and abilities beyond mortal men.
That said, he took away a 3 vote wagon and left my preferred 4 vote wagon on the field.
That is a choice being made in the DYH/Iso dynamic in my opinion.
You didn't really address much with this line of questioning, was it going anywhere?
Do you universally agree with DYH across games, or is it that he's generally agreeable regardless of alignment to most peoples?
What's your opinion on the point DYH raised regarding the fact that he was never at 3 votes? Also, what about the point that the wagons were (near) completely composed of random votes?
Clarification: Unless scum have lost the ability to make sense, agreeing with him doesn't clarify his alignment.
This is a general statement.
The converse is also true - disagreeing with someone doesn't make them scum.
Given that I can't conceive why you would possibly think I was scum so early on, you're going to have to spell it out for me. I'm not avoiding it, you're just not giving me anything to respond to.
My refusal to address what, exactly? The fact that you have provided absolutely no reasoning for your vote? Pardon me for not taking your vote seriously when I have seen no explanation for why I should. I tend to ignore dumb votes, anyway.
Uh, what?
I said that I sounded fake because I had to think more than usual about what I was saying. The fact that I wanted to play as a gimmick was an afterthought.
For reference:
This was in response to Zionite's inquiry as to the nature of my request.
I'm not sure I fully understand the question. Let me try to answer it anyway.
You should be quite aware that players such as Cyan and yourself don't put much stock into my standard playstyle of "vaguely accuse my scumspects until I get pushed to actually present a case and then try to convince everybody to lynch the people I want dead". That said, we've been thrust into a game with 6 people from a completely different metagame. (See above in my message to Zionite.) My typical play is off-putting, and in a game where half of the players have never played with me, I don't expect to have the clout of reputation strong enough to push the way I generally do. As a result, I opted to play more cautiously than normal. This in addition to a conscious decision to play less erratically due to a comment AsianInvasion made in [redacted because on-going game] has resulted in non-standard Iso play that is apparent to players such as Cyan who have played in several games with me. I'm pretty mad at myself for getting myself run up (from an awful wagon, at that) so early. I mean, I can always revert to my standard play, but that seems counter-intuitive to being less irritating to play with in general to people such as AsianInvasion.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
When you asked this my response was...whut? What post?
Apparently i missed it - I'll respond to it next and you'll get my reposnse there.
Short version: sarcasm.
No vote is random.
'Discuss' with me, 'interact'? Pick your word - the point still holds.
Does Iso know this about you?
Fascinatingly, it also doesn't make it any worse.
Replace three votes with two votes and the point holds.
Want to address it now?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Now what else exactly do you want me to address about your theory? Wasn't that whole thing directed at Vi? I was simply pointing out the error in your premise which became "oh, no big deal" above; except it is, since it's the foundation of a game-changing decision point you seem to think exists, which didn't seem all that serious to me.
Regarding my stance on RVS reactions: As for whether Iso knows that about me, it's certainly possible; we've played in several games together. I have a pretty big tendency of being a day one bulldog - I find something I don't like, I clamp down, and I shake it around until it's dead. That "something I don't like" isn't usually someone ignoring a vote, for what that's worth.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@llamarble
Explain why you have all of the bolded above where you have them, please. Especially with reference to:
[1] considering the convoluted nonsense Thor's spewing about Vierni 'handing him control' of a major wagon. (which, as I note below, is additionally inaccurate because at the time, his supposed '3-vote DYH wagon' was only 2 votes, and his '4-vote Iso wagon' was 3 votes large.)
[2] considering you voted Vierni in the post I quoted above, and that while you backtracked on that a short while later you still had her as 'sketchy'.
[3] considering that Nacho has one post (and now that I notice, Aggressive_Fate hasn't posted at all) that basically said nothing, how do you have him so close to your scum line?
[4] what exactly about DYH has you thinking he is scum?
...and I want you to explain why you have KoL so high up on your town metric when she's engaging in avoidance tactics already.
@Kami of Lunacy
You're not answering me. That doesn't make me happy.
Nice try, but no cigar. You had Thor as town on your list along with DYH, yet 'liked' DYH's vote on Thor. That's inconsistent, and the above excuse doesn't even begin to justify that inconsistency.
@Thor665
This reasoning is incredibly convoluted and makes little sense. Here's why:
1. Your postulation suggests that Vierni wanted Iso lynched, and decided to do so by.... unvoting someone else's wagon, and immediately voting the person that just voted Iso, which would be you. That doesn't quite seem to parse logically. Granted, Vierni's action of immediately unvoting you when called on it and voting Iso makes that a bit more plausible... but at the time you made the post that Cyouni was asking about that had clearly not happened, nor have you raised that as support in the above.
2. Considering, again, that Vierni was voting you, how in the world does that equate to 'handing you control' of the so-called mega wagon?
3.
A rather large reason why none of this makes sense in the first place - the DYH 'wagon' was only ever at 2 votes, and at the point Vierni unvoted DYH and voted you, the Iso wagon was at 3 votes, with you being the 3rd vote. You're trying to imply that you have deep and convoluted reasoning here, but when you get miscount something this obvious and fundamental that suggests instead that you're engaging in blatant fabrication.
....two more questions, Thor.
Firstly, if you think Iso is scum, then why are you so concerned about Vierni supposedly 'making a strong move on Iso by default'?
Secondly, do you have absolutely nothing to say about Kami of Lunacy immediately saying she changed her read of Iso to scum in response to you saying that Iso looked like scum to her?.... because that's your only in-thread interaction with her so far.
------------------
Iso is in fact playing markedly differently from how he usually plays, as town or mafia. I'm not entirely certain what to make of it at the moment.
There's also something about Cyouni's back-and-forth with Thor that I'm not comfortable with. Mm.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Hm.
This is Town!desCoures. Focused pressure, following through on things, driven push on gamestate. Everything that Redux wasn't.
I don't agree with the premise of the wagon on Iso. Not reacting to early votes is null at best - I'd actually having it leaning town, due to the lack of self-awareness displayed. I can buy his rationale for wanting to play in a more... conventional fashion for the showdown, also - not willing to lynch.
Thor is probably town. Can't state that definitively without meta to back it up, but I like the early aggression, even if I don't like the target.
Going to go somewhere completely different and:
Vote: Nachomama
For this:
Don't like the terseness, don't like the tone. Gut says scum.
llamarble is probably town. Don't like the inconsistencies in reads, but the glib lack of self-awareness is a thing.
Being 'tempted to drag out' a tell is dubious.
I don't care about the matters of 2, 3, or 4 votes.
Nacho does not tend to post as much as scum and has yet to post very much.
Kami / Vi are pretty much being Kami / Vi and both make fine sense as town.
Thor has a very good beard.
DYH's posts probably sounded like they come from scum. Don't really remember.
I like that Vox is independent; I don't like that he made it very clear how independent he was being.
I'm going to sleep now nacho, sorry
You can say most things about most things. There's evidence behind what I said or I wouldn't have said it.
I specifically responded to your post to catch your attention; why didn't it work?
If we lynch with enough town spirit, all the scum will be dead before that happens. Or at the very least one of us will be dead by then.
I'm going to have a lot of difficulty voting you if you turn out to be scum this game. Please don't be scum this game. You didn't actually think that Kami thought there was 6 scum in the game, did you?
Picking up on Kami liking a vote on a townread seems more significant of a question, but that might just be me.
See? Much better.
Why? And also would love if other mtgs people shared their opinions on this one.
Funny, I don't really find that to be true. RVS votes are usually not really that important by any means except when players have a good level of familiarity with one another, so overreacting and overthinking it is usually a good indicator of town. Right now, I am mostly concerned about Cyan's interpretation of scum-ISO and Vierni's "leaving an open door" vote is likely following along the same lines unless the Altaria's feathery wings are weighted down by a scum alignment.
I agree. Although it makes me very, very sad that's all you could gather from the thread so far...
Vote: Iso
(You can picture me giving any Victorian "shocked" pose you choose here.)
I also didn't realize that responding "nuh-uh!" to every "uh-huh!" that comes my way was mandatory on this site as well. That aside, arguing with Thor tends to be a waste of time when I have much more entertaining things to do.
---
Iso, why should I buy into your words and backstory and etc. and more etc.? I mean I get that you're going into your traumatized Mafia past where nobody likes you until they get to know you and that's supposed to be meaningful for why there's just so many mean people who have their votes on you, but why should I think you're Town in this game?
---
nacho plz
---
Iso - 5 - Thor665, Cyan, Vierni, Kami of Lunacy, Nachomamma8 - (L-2)
Kami of Lunacy - 1 - desCoures - (L-6)
Vierni - 1 - Iso - (L-6)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-6)
Cyouni - 1 - llamarble (L-6)
Nachomamma8 - 1 - Voxxicus (L-6)
Players not voting: Aggressive_Fate, Cyouni
but not so concerned where I'm willing to remove my vote. i would rather talk this one through nice and slow.
Players needed to lynch: 7
Iso - 5 - Thor665, Cyan, Vierni, Kami of Lunacy, Nachomamma8 - (L-2)
Kami of Lunacy - 1 - desCoures - (L-6)
Nachomamma8 - 1 - Voxxicus - (L-6)
Thor665 - 1 - DYH - (L-6)
Cyouni - 1 - Llamarble - (L-6)
Vierni - 1 - Iso - (L-6)
Players not voting: Aggressive_Fate, Cyouni
Aggressive_Fate has been poked (a friendlier prod without the electric shock).
Fine.
Overall, not an avenue worth pursuing at this point in time.
And yet you can't seem to provide it when asked. Amazing how that works.
You've given pretty much no reason for voting Iso, and you expect "vote Iso because I say so" to sway anyone? No.
This is primarily what I'm referring to:
What specifically does it say, when cut down to the essentials?
"Vierni's first post is all 'Hi, I'm scum!'"
"I want to say "'not really', but..."
And that's not to mention the blatant bandwagoning vote. Vote Vierni
Sol's my best character from the Guilty Gear series.
And no, that would be preposterous - the game would have ended literally as soon as it began. I'm simply not used to people dropping others into the scum pile before they've done anything to give indication of their alignment one way or another - usually, they get labeled as null at best. Like a court of law, Mafia is best approached from an "innocent until proven guilty" mindset; otherwise, paranoia will overrun logic and you'll never accomplish much. I'm not saying you shouldn't doubt your reads - far from it, in fact. Players should constantly be re-reading to reestablish their grasp on the game and update their reads based on new evidence and interactions. But conviction is a good thing!
Fair enough; I think Kami's scum, for what it's worth, but Vi's vote on me was godawful.
I disagree completely. Cyan's all but confirmed town to me based on his initial push on me - his catch on the fact that my post was completely unnatural and his reaction to my response to him was perfectly town. RVS votes can give away a lot in terms of mindset - in fact, I've been doing my best to nail people in RVS as of late. I have a fair success rate so far, though I've bumbled a few times, I'll admit. But no, scum are more inclined to overreact to random votes on them because if a townie wants to be cagey, they can create the impression that they're voting somebody seriously in RVS. Town are more relaxed in RVS because it's exactly that - random fun. Scum tend to care more about votes that might not appear random, even if they are, because scum are typically more self-conscious than town. I've seen it happen many times, and can cite examples, if you'd like.
what
This wagon is a joke.
Given that my past games can't be relevant to the way you view the way I'm playing, I don't expect any of it to be relevant to you, aside from as far as people saying "townIso this" and "scumIso that" goes - though the way this wagon has been progressing should be a pretty strong indicator that I'm town. Let's take a look at it.
First vote on me was DYH. RVS shenanigans, blah, blah, blah. Same with Cyouni.
Next vote is Thor. Here's the post with the vote:
Clearly another random vote.
Thor continues to spout nonsense about his random vote, probably in an attempt to bait a reaction out of me.
Cyan's vote is legit for reasons I've explained above.
3rd vote on the wagon, immediately after Cyan's vote, no reasoning, etc. This vote is a scum vote, as I've already mentioned.
And another scum vote - absolutely no reasoning provided, opportunistic timing, momentum vote, etc. (as I already stated). Before this, Kami displayed absolutely no suspicion of me during the time I was questioning her. This actually reads like Kami is deflecting pressure from herself on to me by throwing her vote my way.
And another completely reasonless vote.
This wagon is full of hot air. Here's my take on things:
Thor665: His posts read in an extremely scummy way to me, but taking an objective step back, based on a couple of things he's said, it's seeming more likely that he's been baiting for reactions to the Iso wagon than anything else. He's also been trying to get me to react to, well, anything, but I think he's just mislead in that respect. It's not enough to establish a solid town read on him but it's a point in his favor.
Cyan: Obvtown at this point for reasons stated above.
Vierni: Scum. No meaningful contributions to the game, bandwagon vote, etc.
Kami of Lunacy: Scum. She's tripping all over herself, making strange stances ("I like the vote on Thor but he's town"), and her vote on me was also awful.
Nachomomma8: Drawing a blank, here. Need more content to determine, though dislike the reasonless vote after not addressing any of my posts except the one where I ask about his avatar.
-
So, I'm at L-2, but this wagon is garbage. I'll claim if people aren't convinced by my wagon analysis.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Fires (R/G)f Salvation
Gruul to the end. "If it doesn't break... hit harder."
Vi
Fires (R/G)f Salvation
Gruul to the end. "If it doesn't break... hit harder."
Fires (R/G)f Salvation
Gruul to the end. "If it doesn't break... hit harder."
discussion of mafia theory to add filler? Check.
is inclined to believe Thor's "nonesense" is "baiting a reaction out of me" rather than hores**** scum? Check.
Latching onto DGB as a scumread because shes the easiest person to take that stance on (aka the "wdf is her playstyle lets call it scum because strange"). C-C-CCOMBO CHECK.
I also find it hard to believe you're ready to claim 6 pages into the day ISO and not more outraged at what you would think is a "bull****" wagon
Fires (R/G)f Salvation
Gruul to the end. "If it doesn't break... hit harder."
Your breakdown of my post is also pretty awful. I don't think it makes you scum but you should probably read what you post before you post it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Didn't != can't. I described the scummy behavior. Going through a first principles explanation of how your post makes you more likely scum wasn't worth giving up reading time.
A consensus that doesn't require much discussion with everyone getting to the same place in their own ways is generally a good thing. Players of the caliber in this game (at least on our end) typically do the work before voting, so when Vi tells me to vote X and gives no explanation I do feel motivated to vote them (or at least do my own research into why a great player like Vi thinks X is scum).
@DYH:
Please clarify "I would find this odd except I doubt there are only two scum and KoL just failed to list her scum buddy."
Kami mixing up cyouni / cyan is a possible tell / link; last time she said that in a game with me she was 'mixing up' Llamarble (her buddy) and Llamafluff (town).
Descoures posting so far is pretty eminently fakeable and pursues lines scum would go for; strong bid for DYH's spot on the scumteam.
I'm going to be the guy who takes a jab at MS for a moment and say that if your players are as great as you claim, they need to get better.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Just pointing out for people - he claims awareness of me trying to get a reaction out of him.
People still want to call him 'playing it cool' as a town reaction?
And ignore that he specifically chose to not respond at all, even though he claimed awareness I was scumhunting him, and decided the pro town move was to mention that I capitalized too much of his name?
Translation: "Hey, Thor, admit this is all reaction hunting and back off and maybe I'll call you townz!"
This is fascinating too - since basically he's calling Nacho scum for a lot of the same reasons I am - meaning he *does* think it's a scumtell, but that my reason to vote him is lolwtgomg.
Don't buy it.
You may all sheep me now.
I do a different Thor related avatar everywhere.
There are too many worthwhile ones to get locked in.
I agree with the idea the actin is fakeable, but...this seems a fairly dramatic negative outlook on an otherwise moderate presence player. Why such a bad vibe? Just because they *might* be faking?
Because I want to understand what DYH is thinking as they create their read of you - I thought that was obvious.
I figured if you had the time to attack my theory you would be interested in seeing my replies and responding to them.
If you were only attacking me as part of a scum mudslinging mission let me know and I'll drop the question.
Do you think this 'no reaction' thing is taken as a generic townish tell in your site meta?
Taking the question one further - do you think Iso has enough brain cells as scum to fake no reaction when he is scum, or would I almost definitely get him to react to it?
"Look at me, I'm Iso, I most assuredly did what town would do, and not a scumtell like what scum would do - the fact that I fully grok this meta then proves I'm not faking it..."
Do you seriously think any overreaction is a scumtell?
I see town do it all the time.
Does that not happen here?
Hi!
i await with baited breath.
I didn't discuss it because there were a couple of ways it could be taken.
The point being is she extroverted a towntell on Iso in reaction to me, but didn't state it and took actions that actually left me in a stronger position to get the town tell lynched - then later decided the town read was really scum or something.
There were probably some interesting things going through her head right then - and since my stance is "I'm curious why she's doing this and am asking questions about it" and not "this is a tell that means - XXX" I don't even understand why I'm failing to parse logically - I haven't advanced a conclusion - I've advanced the idea that it is potentially alignment telling as to why she did what she did.
Where's my flaw?
Who had lead the biggest wagon after her vote?
Who leads the biggest wagon now?
I mean, maybe none of you here understand how wagons are formed and pushed, but...I mean, results seem to support my stance, yeah? I don't get the confusion. If the Iso wagon had immediately dissipated or something, sure, but it didn't. Maybe I'm just darn lucky and guessed what reality would be in a few days...or something...?
I am fascinated that me recalling the specific vote counts (a 1 vote switch) is being touted as proof I messed stuff up...when apparently if I had pegged the numbers correctly there would be no issue. What you are arguing here is either I have a bad memory and that somehow invalidates everything (and, it doesn't - heck, for all you know I have number dyslexia [I do] and you're somehow suggesting that defeats my ability to assess logic [it doesn't]
That is a flawed attack.
The other argument you're making is that I had a point...but because the numbers were off my point is slightly weaker on some scale then it would have been if the numbers were correct. Even if this is so, it fails to defeat my point.
Am I missing something here?
Setting sarcasm on...Full.
I'm sorry, am I only allowed to scumhunt one person at a time and have to act like I am absolutely correct in all reads?
Congratulations, you have identified that I am town and am legit scumhunting - good work.
This question is silly.
Oh, hey, look, I come from the same site DGB does, maybe I have knowledge about her meta that you don't.
No, I do not question that. Wait about three RL days and she'll call me scum because I typed out *sigh* or something.
She's a default permanent policy lynch till proven otherwise with me on MS - I see little value in scumhunting her because she thinks logic is teh scumz!
Give it a day or two and maybe you'll agree and we can do that policy lynch, let me know.
I presume it's due to lack of familiarity with me - the MS people are more prone to belief in beard than the MtG lads. Yeah?
I didn't notice you were attempting to potentially bait me for a reaction until I re-read during my wagon analysis. Thank you for the misrep, sir, may I have another?
I see you have the blinders on. Good to know you're going to be useless for the remainder of the game.
Um, what? I didn't call Nacho scum. I said I disliked his vote but that he needed more content.
Given that DYH can't possibly know for certain whether or not I know that about him, I can't fathom how you could possibly ascertain this line of questioning would be even relatively fruitful.
Yes, how dare I not make an anti-town reaction to your post!
No, it really doesn't. Scum do meltdowns in RVS. Town don't.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It took a re-read for you to consider that me calling it scummy how you dodged giving a reaction was me looking for a reaction from you?
Pull the other one, it has bells on.
Slip Translation: Thor has not been useless prior to this because he's town, and scumhunting, and correct.
My bad, I didn't realize that in addition to the scum and town scales there was a dislike and like scale (that had no bearing on town or scumminess) wherein we compete for popularity points.
I am finding it fruitful.
Why does it bother you so much that I'm asking other players their opinion of your playstyle? That seems an exceedingly normal question avenue.
I don't think a strong reaction is anti-town. Certain strong reactions could be (like rage-quitting) but not all are.
I never realized role PMs took away the ability of a player to act calmly.
Go figure.
@MtGs Crowd - Iso's last comment I quoted here, I want your takes on it pl0x.