I feel like that can be said without continuously saying, "Why does this bother you? It's not even a big deal, dudes!" Because it obviously is to some people, whether we think it should be or not, and expecting them to change their minds just because they're being told something more than once is kind of insulting.
My post is generalized, not putting words in your mouth.
I'm off to work, so there's not much more I can do until I get home, but I'd like you to see it from where we're sitting.
We (the staff) have been told that we need to move to a new site, and that Curse is handling it. They make the site, import the information (an automated process), and we get to work on a beta. People become upset about the account creation and then blame it on the mods, who had nothing to do with it.
It's not fun to be blamed for something we had no part in, and no prior knowledge of. So I apologize on behalf of myself, and the other mods, for being insensitive to those that are upset about this. We've been thrown into the deep end and we're trying to do right by everyone.
Johnny, to address what you're saying, this wasn't a 'secretive' or 'backdoor' thing.
but no body was told of this until recently. we were 'assured' that our information would not be abused and yet here we are, worried what else other then our trust was compromised.
i mean the only reason why your letting people in on the beta is because certain users found it via scriptions to threads, and some mods even wanted to ban those people and keep the whole thing under wraps: I.E. the gutter closure debate all over again.
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Quote from "Megiddo" »
i like banning people because it makes people I don't like go away
And the "only reason why your letting people in on the beta is because" we want to make sure it's right before we go live with it.
"certain users found it via scriptions to threads" is true. The only thing that changed was the speed at which we posted here. We wanted to wait 2-3 hours and instead waited 1.5 hours. If you want to keep painting this like some kind of screw job, fine, but that's not at all what happened. You want to know how we **** you over? We make the Beta private to only a handful of people and go "SURPRISE!!! NEW SITE!!!!"
"mods even wanted to ban those people and keep the whole thing under wraps: I.E. the gutter closure debate all over again." Really dude? This is ridiculous. If this is even remotely true please PM me because someone needs to be talked to.
but I'd like you to see it from where we're sitting.
We (the staff) have been told that we need to move to a new site, and that Curse is handling it.
I understand what you're saying, but you're also admitting you had foreknowledge of this large change. What would have been appropriate was informing the masses like I suggested in my first post; a system-wide message and email and pop ups all warning of this large change. I'm with Kait here, just because you think it's ok doesn't mean it is. We aren't children here, we deserve to know things before they happen. Especially when it comes to our private-like information being used and a large new company that many were worried about when they purchased the site.
I understand what you're saying, but you're also admitting you had foreknowledge of this large change. What would have been appropriate was informing the masses like I suggested in my first post; a system-wide message and email and pop ups all warning of this large change. I'm with Kait here, just because you think it's ok doesn't mean it is. We aren't children here, we deserve to know things before they happen. Especially when it comes to our private-like information being used and a large new company that many were worried about when they purchased the site.
The community was informed that the changes were happening a couple of times since November. The new site that you were told about was ready to go into testing and you were told within hours of its launch. Why would we need to tell you that a Beta was about to launch? That doesn't matter does it? I get that a lot of people want to feel involved with every step of the process and that many people think "transparency" means "to know every detail of the inner workings" but for us it's letting people know when change is happening and trying to give proper notice. The move to the Curse servers was talked about when the site sold last year. So even that was foretold.
But really, what level of information are you looking for? I can help with some of that, but I feel like we've already given plenty of heads up for those that are paying attention and spamming 100,000+ accounts seems unnecessary.
Seriously, help me understand exactly how far you feel you need to be involved with this so I can give you as much information as I can.
"mods even wanted to ban those people and keep the whole thing under wraps: I.E. the gutter closure debate all over again." Really dude? This is ridiculous. If this is even remotely true please PM me because someone needs to be talked to.
So you can pretend to play 'good cop' ? no gal, like i said mods abused our information by putting it on this other site with out our consent.
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Quote from "Megiddo" »
i like banning people because it makes people I don't like go away
Mods haven't done **** except try to make this change as painless and beneficial as we can. It's happening. It's been happening. And what we want is for it to be as good for the members of MTGS as possible. The goal all along has been to preserve as much of what we have while working with their software support.
And really, you keep calling this "mod abuse" but I can't for the life of me figure out what this even means.
Mods haven't done **** except try to make this change as painless and beneficial as we can. It's happening. It's been happening. And what we want is for it to be as good for the members of MTGS as possible. The goal all along has been to preserve as much of what we have while working with their software support.
And really, you keep calling this "mod abuse" but I can't for the life of me figure out what this even means.
You know, I nor anyone else has cursed so I think you should be as civilized as the conversation has been and not get upset sir.
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Randall 0705 - 2219 - 6000 and my pokemon safari is water, Azumarill Bibarel and Floatzel
Quote from "Megiddo" »
i like banning people because it makes people I don't like go away
And the "only reason why your letting people in on the beta is because" we want to make sure it's right before we go live with it.
"certain users found it via scriptions to threads" is true. The only thing that changed was the speed at which we posted here. We wanted to wait 2-3 hours and instead waited 1.5 hours. If you want to keep painting this like some kind of screw job, fine, but that's not at all what happened. You want to know how we **** you over? We make the Beta private to only a handful of people and go "SURPRISE!!! NEW SITE!!!!"
"mods even wanted to ban those people and keep the whole thing under wraps: I.E. the gutter closure debate all over again." Really dude? This is ridiculous. If this is even remotely true please PM me because someone needs to be talked to.
Mods haven't done **** except try to make this change as painless and beneficial as we can. It's happening. It's been happening. And what we want is for it to be as good for the members of MTGS as possible. The goal all along has been to preserve as much of what we have while working with their software support.
And really, you keep calling this "mod abuse" but I can't for the life of me figure out what this even means.
First, calm down. There is no need to get upset and you of all people should be civil with that admin tag under your name.
Secondly, you guys have claimed before that you cannot move SQL dumps to other sites without consent of users who had posted in said area (in our case, the gutter, i nthis case the entire site).
That said, with what Boub told us, you absolutely cannot move my posts from here to there without my consent (hint: no) and if you do so, I wish to have my account deleted along with all of its posts from here, and from curse's server hosting the new website.
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Originally Posted by Arcadic View Post
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First, calm down. There is no need to get upset and you of all people should be civil with that admin tag under your name.
Secondly, you guys have claimed before that you cannot move SQL dumps to other sites without consent of users who had posted in said area (in our case, the gutter, i nthis case the entire site).
That said, with what Boub told us, you absolutely cannot move my posts from here to there without my consent (hint: no) and if you do so, I wish to have my account deleted along with all of its posts from here, and from curse's server hosting the new website.
The obvious difference is that the information is simply moved from one Curse-owned forum platform to another (vBulletin to Cobalt). The SQL dumps issue is something else entirely mostly because it would mean essentially giving the same information to complete strangers.
The obvious difference is that the information is simply moved from one Curse-owned forum platform to another. The SQL dumps issue is something else entirely because it would mean essentially giving the same information to complete strangers.
I don't know curse. they are strangers. your moving our information without our consent. we asked for the SQL to be moved to a friend, a person we know.
see the double standard?
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Randall 0705 - 2219 - 6000 and my pokemon safari is water, Azumarill Bibarel and Floatzel
Quote from "Megiddo" »
i like banning people because it makes people I don't like go away
I don't know curse. they are strangers. your moving our information without our consent. we asked for the SQL to be moved to a friend, a person we know.
see the double standard?
No. Curse owns the information, remember. And nothing has changed on that front since they bought the site half a year ago.
The community was informed that the changes were happening a couple of times since November. The new site that you were told about was ready to go into testing and you were told within hours of its launch. Why would we need to tell you that a Beta was about to launch? That doesn't matter does it?
I already said what was the issue was: not being told about making Curse accounts using private-feeling information. Sure, you may have known about it, since you're part of the mod staff. But the average user was not told. And, if we were told, it was not open and obvious. This isn't some small act, and it shouldn't be sold as one. When it was rumored and then truth that Curse was going to purchase MTGSal, many were worried that they would be forced to go to a Curse-hub message board and many were afraid they would have to get a Curse login. So, it should be obvious to the staff (and Curse, I hope) that when the site is being eaten by the mothership and that logins would be created from the MTGSal data, some people would have liked notice.
This is about trust and communication. I have no doubt that you and the mods and admins knew that Curse would be doing this, but obviously many did not.
And, as for how to inform us about this large shift, yes, I think spamming is appropriate. I went so far as to suggest that there be popups, the most dreaded of website tactics. This is not a small matter. This was clearly important to many and everyone should have been notified in the most obvious and annoying ways.
so they own my information now? i am not ok with this. they shouldnt own anything of mine
Do you not understand how web services work?
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
I'm sorry, but when amazon.com upgrades, its still the same site with my information. they dont own it, to sell as they please.
No, they actually do. That's the whole point of a ToS.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
The obvious difference is that the information is simply moved from one Curse-owned forum platform to another (vBulletin to Cobalt). The SQL dumps issue is something else entirely mostly because it would mean essentially giving the same information to complete strangers.
N_S is a complete stranger? Kijin is a complete stranger? They both worked for staff. They are hardly strangers.
I don't know curse. they are strangers. your moving our information without our consent. we asked for the SQL to be moved to a friend, a person we know.
Actually senori that very issue is being debated in European courts , as digital property rights are tricky business and multiple ToS and Eulas became worthless because of such court cases.
Be that as it may, this is the generally understood state of affairs in the world. If you give your name to an organization's mailing list, you understand that they might give it away, or sell it. If Amazon were bought tomorrow by Halliburton*, would you really think it was illegal for Halliburton to have your account information? Of course not.
Quote from Belgareth »
Anyway the techs could have easily solved this with a yes/no box for every user asking if they wanted to be merged into a curse id.
It's probably more complicated than that, technically. To have an account on the Beta (and the new site going forward) requires a Curse ID in the same way that having an account here requires an MTGS username and password. The two are equivalent; "opting out" of a Curse ID puts every post and message you've made here in a digital no-man's land.
*: I can't think of many companies big enough to buy Amazon.
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Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
My post is generalized, not putting words in your mouth.
We (the staff) have been told that we need to move to a new site, and that Curse is handling it. They make the site, import the information (an automated process), and we get to work on a beta. People become upset about the account creation and then blame it on the mods, who had nothing to do with it.
It's not fun to be blamed for something we had no part in, and no prior knowledge of. So I apologize on behalf of myself, and the other mods, for being insensitive to those that are upset about this. We've been thrown into the deep end and we're trying to do right by everyone.
My helpdesk should you need me.
but no body was told of this until recently. we were 'assured' that our information would not be abused and yet here we are, worried what else other then our trust was compromised.
i mean the only reason why your letting people in on the beta is because certain users found it via scriptions to threads, and some mods even wanted to ban those people and keep the whole thing under wraps: I.E. the gutter closure debate all over again.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
And the "only reason why your letting people in on the beta is because" we want to make sure it's right before we go live with it.
"certain users found it via scriptions to threads" is true. The only thing that changed was the speed at which we posted here. We wanted to wait 2-3 hours and instead waited 1.5 hours. If you want to keep painting this like some kind of screw job, fine, but that's not at all what happened. You want to know how we **** you over? We make the Beta private to only a handful of people and go "SURPRISE!!! NEW SITE!!!!"
"mods even wanted to ban those people and keep the whole thing under wraps: I.E. the gutter closure debate all over again." Really dude? This is ridiculous. If this is even remotely true please PM me because someone needs to be talked to.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I understand what you're saying, but you're also admitting you had foreknowledge of this large change. What would have been appropriate was informing the masses like I suggested in my first post; a system-wide message and email and pop ups all warning of this large change. I'm with Kait here, just because you think it's ok doesn't mean it is. We aren't children here, we deserve to know things before they happen. Especially when it comes to our private-like information being used and a large new company that many were worried about when they purchased the site.
"Can you apply the penal code to demons?"
The community was informed that the changes were happening a couple of times since November. The new site that you were told about was ready to go into testing and you were told within hours of its launch. Why would we need to tell you that a Beta was about to launch? That doesn't matter does it? I get that a lot of people want to feel involved with every step of the process and that many people think "transparency" means "to know every detail of the inner workings" but for us it's letting people know when change is happening and trying to give proper notice. The move to the Curse servers was talked about when the site sold last year. So even that was foretold.
But really, what level of information are you looking for? I can help with some of that, but I feel like we've already given plenty of heads up for those that are paying attention and spamming 100,000+ accounts seems unnecessary.
Seriously, help me understand exactly how far you feel you need to be involved with this so I can give you as much information as I can.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
So you can pretend to play 'good cop' ? no gal, like i said mods abused our information by putting it on this other site with out our consent.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
And really, you keep calling this "mod abuse" but I can't for the life of me figure out what this even means.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
You know, I nor anyone else has cursed so I think you should be as civilized as the conversation has been and not get upset sir.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
First, calm down. There is no need to get upset and you of all people should be civil with that admin tag under your name.
Secondly, you guys have claimed before that you cannot move SQL dumps to other sites without consent of users who had posted in said area (in our case, the gutter, i nthis case the entire site).
That said, with what Boub told us, you absolutely cannot move my posts from here to there without my consent (hint: no) and if you do so, I wish to have my account deleted along with all of its posts from here, and from curse's server hosting the new website.
scumbag
Want Higher Level Card Evaluation? Visit Diestoremoval.com
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
The obvious difference is that the information is simply moved from one Curse-owned forum platform to another (vBulletin to Cobalt). The SQL dumps issue is something else entirely mostly because it would mean essentially giving the same information to complete strangers.
I don't know curse. they are strangers. your moving our information without our consent. we asked for the SQL to be moved to a friend, a person we know.
see the double standard?
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
No. Curse owns the information, remember. And nothing has changed on that front since they bought the site half a year ago.
so they own my information now? i am not ok with this. they shouldnt own anything of mine
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
I already said what was the issue was: not being told about making Curse accounts using private-feeling information. Sure, you may have known about it, since you're part of the mod staff. But the average user was not told. And, if we were told, it was not open and obvious. This isn't some small act, and it shouldn't be sold as one. When it was rumored and then truth that Curse was going to purchase MTGSal, many were worried that they would be forced to go to a Curse-hub message board and many were afraid they would have to get a Curse login. So, it should be obvious to the staff (and Curse, I hope) that when the site is being eaten by the mothership and that logins would be created from the MTGSal data, some people would have liked notice.
This is about trust and communication. I have no doubt that you and the mods and admins knew that Curse would be doing this, but obviously many did not.
And, as for how to inform us about this large shift, yes, I think spamming is appropriate. I went so far as to suggest that there be popups, the most dreaded of website tactics. This is not a small matter. This was clearly important to many and everyone should have been notified in the most obvious and annoying ways.
"Can you apply the penal code to demons?"
Do you not understand how web services work?
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
I'm sorry, but when amazon.com upgrades, its still the same site with my information. they dont own it, to sell as they please.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition
No, they actually do. That's the whole point of a ToS.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
N_S is a complete stranger? Kijin is a complete stranger? They both worked for staff. They are hardly strangers.
++
++
senori: don't condescend a user, I should expect better from you as a moderator.
scumbag
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Be that as it may, this is the generally understood state of affairs in the world. If you give your name to an organization's mailing list, you understand that they might give it away, or sell it. If Amazon were bought tomorrow by Halliburton*, would you really think it was illegal for Halliburton to have your account information? Of course not.
It's probably more complicated than that, technically. To have an account on the Beta (and the new site going forward) requires a Curse ID in the same way that having an account here requires an MTGS username and password. The two are equivalent; "opting out" of a Curse ID puts every post and message you've made here in a digital no-man's land.
*: I can't think of many companies big enough to buy Amazon.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
www.diestoremoval.com
A truly great petition