Recently there has been talk of the HOF ... And many articles popping up about why they won't vote for cheaters, it seems like the MLB hall is the same way people refusing to vote for those that used PED ...
I agree that cheaters who affect the outcome of games should not be inducted and honestly deserve an auto 3 year suspension if the cheating is persistent/wilful.
But here comes the issue... Pat Chapin was voted in, if you ask me he contributes A LOT to the community but I would think Federal Drug Trafficking charges are a little worse than cheating in mtg. What if the best players Finkel/Budde decide to pull an OJ/Ray Lewis/Aaron Hernandez... Pete Rose was banned for gambling/tax evasion ... since he is one of the best all time MLB players I doubt he was throwing games... and if any player can throw games and get 4000 hits...
AFAIK there is no rule in MTG about having a criminal record and playing in tournies(although border crossings can be a problem), otherwise Chapin wouldn't be playing in them. Pete Rose was managing the team when he was betting on baseball, a DEFINITE conflict of interest.
But here comes the issue... Pat Chapin was voted in, if you ask me he contributes A LOT to the community but I would think Federal Drug Trafficking charges are a little worse than cheating in mtg. What if the best players Finkel/Budde decide to pull an OJ/Ray Lewis/Aaron Hernandez... Pete Rose was banned for gambling/tax evasion ... since he is one of the best all time MLB players I doubt he was throwing games... and if any player can throw games and get 4000 hits...
thoughts?
Was Chapin using his status in MTG to solicit/sell illegal drugs? Did his crime give him any unfair advanatge in MTG? No.
The guy did his time and was released. He paid his debt to society.
When bringing up Pete Rose, it's important to note that he was suspending for violating the integrity of the game rather than any specific US laws. Even if you take him at his word that he only ever bet his team to win, wagering money still gives him an added incentive to play harder than in games where he didn't make a bet.
Also, Ty Cobb murdered an African-American elevator operator for looking at him funny, but is still in the Baseball HOF.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
When bringing up Pete Rose, it's important to note that he was suspending for violating the integrity of the game rather than any specific US laws. Even if you take him at his word that he only ever bet his team to win, wagering money still gives him an added incentive to play harder than in games where he didn't make a bet.
Also, Ty Cobb murdered an African-American elevator operator for looking at him funny, but is still in the Baseball HOF.
Good point i Didn't know Cobb did that... thought he was just beating his servants...
Also, Ty Cobb murdered an African-American elevator operator for looking at him funny, but is still in the Baseball HOF.
Pretty sure the rumor was that he killed a would-be carjacker. Both stories are completely untrue.
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I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I read it somewhere, I'm on a phone right now so I can't really research into it.
The story of him attacking a fan with no hands is certainty true, though.
Yeah, that definitely happened. Ty Cobb was an all-around POS.
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Modern - RUG Delver RUG - Splinter Twin UR - Jund BRG
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
I share the opinion that cheaters shouldn't benefit from their cheating. If you knowingly/willingly cheated in competitive MtG, that should eliminate you from HOF consideration in my opinion. Things outside the scope of MtG need to be considered separately.
Baseball is a good parallel. Guys like Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Roger Clemens, etc should not get into the HOF. They are cheaters, they knowingly cheated, and they should be punished for it.
Conley Woods covered cheating vs illegal things in his HoF vote regarding the Guillaumes. Mostly how they have paid their due and should still be eligible for it this year.
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[center]The best combo in Modern is now unbanned, yay!!!
Chapin served his punishment. So did Saito, and so did Wafo-Tapa. They made mistakes, did their proverbial time, and it shouldn't prevent people from voting for them now or in the future. That said, I can understand why, in a close ballot, people might feel better voting for players who have a squeaky-clean record.
All different cases and should be treated as such.
If someone believes that a player cheated, and that the cheating helped them accomplish the things that put them in place to be HOF candidates, then I can absolutely understand never voting for them. For many that is the case with Saito.
Pretty sure the rumor was that he killed a would-be carjacker. Both stories are completely untrue.
I had this half wrong. Apparently, Cobb slapped the elevator operator for being "uppity", and then stabbed a night watchman (also African - American) that intervened. I wasn't there, so I can't verify if this is factual, but it on his Wikipedia page and there are other references to the incident if you google "Ty Cobb uppity".
At any rate, I think there's a pretty clear precedent that Halls of Fame are made to honor an individual's contribution to the game. Any legal issues that arise outside of that are secondary or tertiary concerns.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
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I agree that cheaters who affect the outcome of games should not be inducted and honestly deserve an auto 3 year suspension if the cheating is persistent/wilful.
But here comes the issue... Pat Chapin was voted in, if you ask me he contributes A LOT to the community but I would think Federal Drug Trafficking charges are a little worse than cheating in mtg. What if the best players Finkel/Budde decide to pull an OJ/Ray Lewis/Aaron Hernandez... Pete Rose was banned for gambling/tax evasion ... since he is one of the best all time MLB players I doubt he was throwing games... and if any player can throw games and get 4000 hits...
thoughts?
Was Chapin using his status in MTG to solicit/sell illegal drugs? Did his crime give him any unfair advanatge in MTG? No.
The guy did his time and was released. He paid his debt to society.
Also what he did is hardly comparable to Aaron Hernandez
Also, Ty Cobb murdered an African-American elevator operator for looking at him funny, but is still in the Baseball HOF.
Good point i Didn't know Cobb did that... thought he was just beating his servants...
Pretty sure the rumor was that he killed a would-be carjacker. Both stories are completely untrue.
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
I read it somewhere, I'm on a phone right now so I can't really research into it.
The story of him attacking a fan with no hands is certainty true, though.
Cast your ballots accordingly.
Yeah, that definitely happened. Ty Cobb was an all-around POS.
Legacy - RUG Delver RUG - Maverick GW - SI BG
Foreigning out SI, currently 33/75. The only thing better than a T1 kill is doing it with cards no one has ever heard of and/or can't read. If anyone has any of the usual pieces, PM me. I'm willing to buy/trade.
Baseball is a good parallel. Guys like Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Roger Clemens, etc should not get into the HOF. They are cheaters, they knowingly cheated, and they should be punished for it.
This just made my day.
I don't think it matters if he has a criminal record... He still earned his spot in MTG hall of fame.
All different cases and should be treated as such.
If someone believes that a player cheated, and that the cheating helped them accomplish the things that put them in place to be HOF candidates, then I can absolutely understand never voting for them. For many that is the case with Saito.
OTOH it wouldn't apply to Chapin or Tapa.
I had this half wrong. Apparently, Cobb slapped the elevator operator for being "uppity", and then stabbed a night watchman (also African - American) that intervened. I wasn't there, so I can't verify if this is factual, but it on his Wikipedia page and there are other references to the incident if you google "Ty Cobb uppity".
At any rate, I think there's a pretty clear precedent that Halls of Fame are made to honor an individual's contribution to the game. Any legal issues that arise outside of that are secondary or tertiary concerns.