So here's a question for you fellow Melek slingers: If I'm already running Mystical Tutor, Long-Term Plans and Merchant Scroll as tutors, and I have both Gamble and Personal Tutor in my binder, which of the latter should I include? I like that Gamble can get any card and is red (to pitch to Dream Halls for red spells), but Personal puts the sorcery (like a Wheel or storm spell or Molten Psyche) on top, ready for the Melek special. I'm torn.
So here's a question for you fellow Melek slingers: If I'm already running Mystical Tutor, Long-Term Plans and Merchant Scroll as tutors, and I have both Gamble and Personal Tutor in my binder, which of the latter should I include? I like that Gamble can get any card and is red (to pitch to Dream Halls for red spells), but Personal puts the sorcery (like a Wheel or storm spell or Molten Psyche) on top, ready for the Melek special. I'm torn.
Personal Tutor, no question. Starting off the turn with 2x Mana Geyser lets you do some just stupid things. Mystic Retrieval gets you pretty much your entire yard back. You can go on and on. The blowout potential is enormous.
RE: Fabricate: I let Tezzeret do the artifact tutoring. If you are not running Tezzeret then I recommend it. If you are then it depends on what you're tutoring for. Torpor Orb alone might be good enough depending on your meta. Scroll Rack is sick with Melek but it's much more likely to get deep-sixed by your opponents (or they will just kill Melek, in which case generally you will have little say in the matter). Top is a good tutor target as well. Personally it will probably make your list more consistent at the cost of some options.
I'm running Fabricate, but I haven't completed the move over to Melek yet. I think it's worth running even with Tezzy. He's my ramper and dies usually a turn or 2 after I drop him.
I may cut it for something more fun, but as I said, I'm not done with the conversion from my Nin Storm version yet.
So, after finding out about Keep Watch and Theft of Dreams, I wanted to see if there were any other awesome cards that fit our particular profile: Replaced itself and cost some amount of colorless + one blue. (i.e. 3U would be fine, but UU would not). Then I remembered the beta, and it's awesome ability to take into account the mana symbols that we want. This allowed me to filter a list of sorceries and a list of instants.
Please note, these are all instants and sorceries with either 0 or 1 blue mana symbols, 0 or 1 red mana symbols, and no other colored mana and have the word "draw" in them. Telling time, for example, won't appear, because it doesn't actually draw a card. Of note:
Accelerate can be used for haste. Shadow Rift has already been noted, but touch of invisibility, stun and inaction injunction can be used for getting your general through still. Foreshadow and predict can clear stuff off if using ponder or scry. Requires some setup, but you get an extra card. Mental note and Thought Scour does the same clearing, but only net one card each. Perilous Research may as well be inspiration on the turn you're going off if you are running enchantments to slow down attackers. Except it costs 2 less. Visions of Beyond draws 3 cards if someone has a decent sized graveyard. Zap kills off any X/1's. Or X/2's for those using T+L. Petals of Insight is a bit expensive, but draws 3 cards or moves the top 3 cards to the bottom and buybacks. Mystic Speculation is better, but this is mystic #2. Tezzeret's Gambit is free with enough reducers out. Withering Gaze and Baleful Stare are good depending on your metagame. Lots of green? Enjoy! Lots of red? That's odd, but whatever... Enjoy!
For those running a few more creatures, Shared Discovery could do a lot of work... But I think most of us only see that many creatures if Talrand is out.
And finally, for those running Geth's Grimoire, Wistful thinking draws 4 cards.
What does everyone think of Dream Halls vs Omnicience? It's not hard to generate that much mana and from time to time an opponent can take advantage off Dream Halls too?
So, after finding out about Keep Watch and Theft of Dreams, I wanted to see if there were any other awesome cards that fit our particular profile: Replaced itself and cost some amount of colorless + one blue. (i.e. 3U would be fine, but UU would not). Then I remembered the beta, and it's awesome ability to take into account the mana symbols that we want. This allowed me to filter a list of sorceries and a list of instants.
Please note, these are all instants and sorceries with either 0 or 1 blue mana symbols, 0 or 1 red mana symbols, and no other colored mana and have the word "draw" in them. Telling time, for example, won't appear, because it doesn't actually draw a card. Of note:
Accelerate can be used for haste. Shadow Rift has already been noted, but touch of invisibility, stun and inaction injunction can be used for getting your general through still. Foreshadow and predict can clear stuff off if using ponder or scry. Requires some setup, but you get an extra card. Mental note and Thought Scour does the same clearing, but only net one card each. Perilous Research may as well be inspiration on the turn you're going off if you are running enchantments to slow down attackers. Except it costs 2 less. Visions of Beyond draws 3 cards if someone has a decent sized graveyard. Zap kills off any X/1's. Or X/2's for those using T+L. Petals of Insight is a bit expensive, but draws 3 cards or moves the top 3 cards to the bottom and buybacks. Mystic Speculation is better, but this is mystic #2. Tezzeret's Gambit is free with enough reducers out. Withering Gaze and Baleful Stare are good depending on your metagame. Lots of green? Enjoy! Lots of red? That's odd, but whatever... Enjoy!
For those running a few more creatures, Shared Discovery could do a lot of work... But I think most of us only see that many creatures if Talrand is out.
And finally, for those running Geth's Grimoire, Wistful thinking draws 4 cards.
They are sorceries, but are potent draw effects, as any player who has played a Tamiyo in any format can attest to.
Crimson Wisps is better than accelerate, and Reckless Charge is likewise powerful in that regard. Screaming Fury probably doesn't make the cut, but a host of threaten effects exist, and aside from being useful, you can always use them on yourself as a haste buff if needed.
I'll look around for borrowing 10000 arrows. I'm already running Theft of Dreams though. (And I generally prefer it over keep watch, for storm-related reasons)
Missed crimson wisps somehow.
The threaten effects also double as panic effects: If they are on my side of the field, then they can't block. Pity WotC has never printed a cantripping threaten effect.
The ones in there that I was hoping to hear more back on were Tezzeret's Gambit, Predict, and Withering Gaze/Baleful Stare. Gambit being free, predict working with the top of the deck manipulation that the deck has, and gaze/stare being capable of drawing more cards than anything on that list.
Personal Tutor, no question. Starting off the turn with 2x Mana Geyser lets you do some just stupid things. Mystic Retrieval gets you pretty much your entire yard back. You can go on and on. The blowout potential is enormous.
RE: Fabricate: I let Tezzeret do the artifact tutoring. If you are not running Tezzeret then I recommend it. If you are then it depends on what you're tutoring for. Torpor Orb alone might be good enough depending on your meta. Scroll Rack is sick with Melek but it's much more likely to get deep-sixed by your opponents (or they will just kill Melek, in which case generally you will have little say in the matter). Top is a good tutor target as well. Personally it will probably make your list more consistent at the cost of some options.
Yeah, after goldfishing with Personal Tutor in the build I can see it's superior. Personal (or Mystical) Tutor with Melek in play can just explode things right then and there. It's glorious.
I'm running Fabricate, but I haven't completed the move over to Melek yet. I think it's worth running even with Tezzy. He's my ramper and dies usually a turn or 2 after I drop him.
I may cut it for something more fun, but as I said, I'm not done with the conversion from my Nin Storm version yet.
With Fabricate, sometimes I'm wanting another draw spell, especially when Tezzeret is already in my hand or in play, but other times it's just what the doctor ordered, especially when you can play it for :symu:, tutor Scroll Rack, play it, put a bonkers spell on top of the library and play it two times, all in the same turn. I'll be keeping it.
@chaos: I like Tezzeret's Gambit a good bit, but I don't know what I'd remove for it. As for the two Stares, there's no way I could justify playing those cards unless you play in a very consistently red and green meta all the time.
This is gonna sound odd. But, I notice a lot of people are using Maleck, and I'm not sure I see the appeal. Yes, there are some crazy plays with him. But you can still have crazy plays without him, so he looks kinda win-more. Furthermore, he doesn't fill any gap the deck currently faces. T+L fills in a defensive gap: by doing mini-wraths, he stops token decks dead in their tracks. Combined with overburden, it's somewhat difficult to get any serious aggression going. And I'm not seeing maleck do much against control or combo players.... So, he seems winmore.
(And it might not seem a major difference, but T+L + diviner's wand + wheel = 2 turn clock. With maleck, it's 3 turns.)
Don't get me wrong. It's awesome winmore. But it's still winmore.
Personal Tutor, no question. Starting off the turn with 2x Mana Geyser lets you do some just stupid things. Mystic Retrieval gets you pretty much your entire yard back. You can go on and on. The blowout potential is enormous.
RE: Fabricate: I let Tezzeret do the artifact tutoring. If you are not running Tezzeret then I recommend it. If you are then it depends on what you're tutoring for. Torpor Orb alone might be good enough depending on your meta. Scroll Rack is sick with Melek but it's much more likely to get deep-sixed by your opponents (or they will just kill Melek, in which case generally you will have little say in the matter). Top is a good tutor target as well. Personally it will probably make your list more consistent at the cost of some options.
Great feedback in this thread. Sonik - have you posted your Melek list in this thread? I'm late to this party and this thread is enormous.
Hey, I asked Wizards for a 1UR 2/2, whenever you cast instant or sorcery, Zap but I didn't get it either. Melek is the general if you want to be rewarded casting instants and sorceries in these colors. Sure there are other decent U/R generals like Nin and Niv1.0 but they just don't reward us in the same way for doing what we like. You have to understand that any deck that limits themselves in this way, in these colors, is going to have to stretch for playables. We're already on the back foot. But you know what? I think I speak for many of us when I say I like the challenge.
I'd still like to improve the anti-aggro plan and maybe wish I played a bit more removal but mostly I'm happy with the performance. Given enough time in game, I will generally find a way to win. I really want to try out Overburden again soon, I added it and cut it without ever casting it and I want to see what it can do. I might be overboard on artifact ramp and could cut Izzet Cluestone or something similar for it.
I'd still like to improve the anti-aggro plan and maybe wish I played a bit more removal but mostly I'm happy with the performance. Given enough time in game, I will generally find a way to win. I really want to try out Overburden again soon, I added it and cut it without ever casting it and I want to see what it can do. I might be overboard on artifact ramp and could cut Izzet Cluestone or something similar for it.
Thanks Sonik! A question I have for everyone is why does no one run Enter the Infinite?
I feel like this card is like a one card kill. One example was something involving Inner Fire and Comet Storm. I like it in the list I am building because I think I will run a Blast of Genius to go along with my Dragonstorm package.
Just seems like a ton of ways to abuse having your library in your hand.
Thanks Sonik! A question I have for everyone is why does no one run Enter the Infinite?
I feel like this card is like a one card kill. One example was something involving Inner Fire and Comet Storm. I like it in the list I am building because I think I will run a Blast of Genius to go along with my Dragonstorm package.
Just seems like a ton of ways to abuse having your library in your hand.
Even if you cast Enter the Infinite you still need the mana to use it AND your next ritual. Inner Fire is particularly bad because it will rarely if ever get you more than 2 mana or so. Compare with Turnabout and Mana Geyser.
I feel like it's too much setup and you have to play bad cards like Inner Fire to support it. If you want to win instantly that bad Firemind's Foresight fetching Reiterate/Reset (or Merchant Scroll for Turnabout)/Flame Jab takes a lot less work and the support cards don't suck on their own.
Even if you cast Enter the Infinite you still need the mana to use it AND your next ritual. Inner Fire is particularly bad because it will rarely if ever get you more than 2 mana or so. Compare with Turnabout and Mana Geyser.
I feel like it's too much setup and you have to play bad cards like Inner Fire to support it. If you want to win instantly that bad Firemind's Foresight fetching Reiterate/Reset (or Merchant Scroll for Turnabout)/Flame Jab takes a lot less work and the support cards don't suck on their own.
I see what you mean. I assume I will survive and untap on my next turn so I didn't even consider trying to win on the spot with it. My Inner Fire example is pretty bad, but I figure you win with any of the lists posted in this thread.
I guess I feel better casting an Enter The Infinite and waiting a turn rather than assembling some kind of infinite mana/draw engine.
I see what you mean. I assume I will survive and untap on my next turn
Unless you have Reliquary Tower in play or you have cast it as an instant (Enter the Infinite is a sorcery), you will have to discard down at the end of your turn. That's just part of the setup process I find annoying. Not to mention if someone hits you with Sign in Blood or mills you for even one lousy card then you are now dead before your final draw step. Since everyone knows you have just Final Fortune'd yourself they'll just hold their counter mana, try to alpha strike you, mill a card or two... you are extremely vulnerable in this situation.
It's not worth the hassle unless you know for certain you can hit it off a Dream Halls, which is a card that is so busted it doesn't exactly need the help to get better. You can definitely win games off of it but I just choose to play other cards that are more useful at 11 mana or less.
Hey, I asked Wizards for a 1UR 2/2, whenever you cast instant or sorcery, Zap but I didn't get it either. Melek is the general if you want to be rewarded casting instants and sorceries in these colors. Sure there are other decent U/R generals like Nin and Niv1.0 but they just don't reward us in the same way for doing what we like. You have to understand that any deck that limits themselves in this way, in these colors, is going to have to stretch for playables. We're already on the back foot. But you know what? I think I speak for many of us when I say I like the challenge.
While I will agree that a zap on instant/sorcery would be amazing, I think that T+L counts as a reward for playing lots of spells, and it just so happens that a lot of those spells are instants/sorceries.
The difference is the rewards. Melek allows you to go off with more flashiness. Tibor and Lumia allows you to survive longer so that you can go off in the first place. I'm not saying that Melek is a bad choice, and he is certainly better than Niv 2.0. I'm saying that T+L in the command zone is like a controllable earthquake, while melek is a mind's desire. While the deck wins off mind's desire, the earthquake allows us to to get to the winning point at all. And since, when going off, you can typically draw into a win con anyway, T+L is giving us something we otherwise can't do reliably (stop us from dying), while Melek is giving us something we can already do reliably (win con).
Unless you have Reliquary Tower in play or you have cast it as an instant (Enter the Infinite is a sorcery), you will have to discard down at the end of your turn. That's just part of the setup process I find annoying. Not to mention if someone hits you with Sign in Blood or mills you for even one lousy card then you are now dead before your final draw step. Since everyone knows you have just Final Fortune'd yourself they'll just hold their counter mana, try to alpha strike you, mill a card or two... you are extremely vulnerable in this situation.
It's not worth the hassle unless you know for certain you can hit it off a Dream Halls, which is a card that is so busted it doesn't exactly need the help to get better. You can definitely win games off of it but I just choose to play other cards that are more useful at 11 mana or less.
I posted this in the Crazy Play thread, but I figured it would be relevant here as well. I don't think my play group will let me play Melek again for a while...
I'll hit just the highlights- 5 player game (Melek, treva lifegain/populate, sharuum combo, kaalia burn the world, and Riku storm)
Kept an opener of 6 lands + Brainstorm, brainstormed into frantic search, izzet signet, and mind's desire. Played Melek turn 5, Riku played Arcane Melee on his turn 5 passing to me and my turn 6. A revealed long term plans with Frantic search in hand and the game was on. Plans twice, first for turnabout, do some instants on the stack, then for time spiral, double spiral, etc....
Game ended with Storm of 27, guttersnipe on board having done 20 damage himself, two time spirals, 2 windfalls for 7, a wheel of fortune, a flashbacked windfall for 14, and then a triple molten psyche with metalcraft.
Total damage tally across all 4 opponents was 920 damage... I could have easily broken 1,000 but the turn had already taken 15 minutes and I didn't want to draw it out further. To be honest, they had all died to the first Molten Psyche, but we just let it all happen so we could count up the total afterwards.
...T+L is giving us something we otherwise can't do reliably (stop us from dying), while Melek is giving us something we can already do reliably (win con).
I'll add to their virtues: T+L can just own face with a Runechanter's Pike and the whole Pike/Inkmoth Nexus/Faerie Conclave plan is a lot better there than it is with Melek. I didn't really mean to leave them out in the cold up there and I did enjoy playing them for some time!
Owned. You are right. Still wouldn't play it though for the other reasons I mentioned, unless I was planning to win immediately and specifically with that card.
Did you buy that player a drink? I wish someone else would try to win my games for me too!! /brofist
As for me I have been a bad boy lately and haven't played this deck in almost a month. I have really been enjoying my Trostani Enchantress lately and just ended a game last night where I was making 4 25/25's and gaining 100 life per turn (with plenty of mana to spare), and nuked most of the table with a Garruk 1.0 Overrun. Also been giving Riku a little bit of love who has usually done well or just vomited the deck out on the table. Hopefully next week I'll have another story to share.
Did you buy that player a drink? I wish someone else would try to win my games for me too!! /brofist
I gave him an IOU for when he turned 21. I'm not sure how it escaped him that playing Melee and passing to the Melek deck was not the greatest idea, but between being distracted by his feud with Kaalia and my relatively "innocuous" board state of Melek + lands and a rock... he might not have suspected I was going to go from zero to 60 in 3.5 seconds.
I know I've been guilty of things similarly where I have set up and played mana flare, knowing that I'm going to 15 minute turn land on my next turn and ended up giving someone a table kill out of nowhere before I got my next turn, so I tried not to give him too hard of a time about it.
I'll add to their virtues: T+L can just own face with a Runechanter's Pike and the whole Pike/Inkmoth Nexus/Faerie Conclave plan is a lot better there than it is with Melek. I didn't really mean to leave them out in the cold up there and I did enjoy playing them for some time!
Thanks for the response. While everything there is true... I will point out that manland + pike works well with malek still. It's just that pike isn't as good with Malek.
But my question still stands. Is the sudden switch to malek simply because he specifically calls out instants/sorceries? Or is there more to it?
But my question still stands. Is the sudden switch to malek simply because he specifically calls out instants/sorceries? Or is there more to it?
In my case specifically it was the feeling that Melek rewards you more for doing what you already want to be doing. So far in the few games that I have played Melek he makes the spell-slinging, spin-the-wheel combo better. Being able to double up on wheels and windfalls off the top digs you further into your deck so that you can find what you need. Also, his synergy with Mystical Tutor/Long-term Plans and Turnabout cannot be understated. If I have any cost reducers and cast a turnabout from the top of my library with Melek the game is pretty much over.
I do feel that T&L are much better at playing the choose your own adventure game, in which you can decide based on board state or hand if you want to spell sling into a storm win or beat someones face with a huge pike, but for those who want to go a more dedicated combo route, Melek just does it better.
Thanks for the response. While everything there is true... I will point out that manland + pike works well with malek still. It's just that pike isn't as good with Malek.
But my question still stands. Is the sudden switch to malek simply because he specifically calls out instants/sorceries? Or is there more to it?
I'll add to what Sims said which is on the money:
With Melek it's really more about power level. He can just win you the game out of nowhere. If you're just playing the game and suddenly a Mana Geyser or Mystical Tutor is sitting on top... just win! Tibor and Lumia and other Izzet generals can do those things, sure, but Melek just blows the game open out of nowhere. If your opponents don't answer him with removal then they are really at your mercy. Again compare to T+L... if you don't have the pike or the Diviner's Wand, you can only threaten a few damage a turn and your opponents can sort of just ignore you (unless they are playing tokens, in which case they are screwed).
I happen to really enjoy casting instants and sorceries as well so personally I like to be rewarded for doing so. But the former reasons are probably a lot more relevant.
Thanks for the response. While everything there is true... I will point out that manland + pike works well with malek still. It's just that pike isn't as good with Malek.
But my question still stands. Is the sudden switch to malek simply because he specifically calls out instants/sorceries? Or is there more to it?
As others have said, it's a difference in offensive power. Melek can really help you go off for a storm kill much easier in a single turn, even copying a single draw spell can give you that extra fuel to push through.
T&L have the advantage of coming down sooner, which helps in an aggro build; a more global wrath ability, which helps in some control manners; and evasion, which helps in aggro.
Nin comes down the sooner, and can give massive card boost to power through stalls.
Niv 1.0 is exceptionally good on all fronts, giving you draw power, control, wincon, and evasion, but is honestly quite threatening (as is Melek, or he soon should be).
Niv 2.0, is good for the grindy control style aggro, where you hit over multiple hits. Or if you include a lot of ritual style effects, or infinite mana if you like the combo style, but if that were the case you could easily build the standard niv 1.0 deck.
Soon Bob.... sooooon
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicySo here's a question for you fellow Melek slingers: If I'm already running Mystical Tutor, Long-Term Plans and Merchant Scroll as tutors, and I have both Gamble and Personal Tutor in my binder, which of the latter should I include? I like that Gamble can get any card and is red (to pitch to Dream Halls for red spells), but Personal puts the sorcery (like a Wheel or storm spell or Molten Psyche) on top, ready for the Melek special. I'm torn.
Thoughts?
Also, how many of you are running Fabricate?
Personal Tutor, no question. Starting off the turn with 2x Mana Geyser lets you do some just stupid things. Mystic Retrieval gets you pretty much your entire yard back. You can go on and on. The blowout potential is enormous.
RE: Fabricate: I let Tezzeret do the artifact tutoring. If you are not running Tezzeret then I recommend it. If you are then it depends on what you're tutoring for. Torpor Orb alone might be good enough depending on your meta. Scroll Rack is sick with Melek but it's much more likely to get deep-sixed by your opponents (or they will just kill Melek, in which case generally you will have little say in the matter). Top is a good tutor target as well. Personally it will probably make your list more consistent at the cost of some options.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I'm running Fabricate, but I haven't completed the move over to Melek yet. I think it's worth running even with Tezzy. He's my ramper and dies usually a turn or 2 after I drop him.
I may cut it for something more fun, but as I said, I'm not done with the conversion from my Nin Storm version yet.
Please note, these are all instants and sorceries with either 0 or 1 blue mana symbols, 0 or 1 red mana symbols, and no other colored mana and have the word "draw" in them. Telling time, for example, won't appear, because it doesn't actually draw a card. Of note:
Accelerate can be used for haste. Shadow Rift has already been noted, but touch of invisibility, stun and inaction injunction can be used for getting your general through still.
Foreshadow and predict can clear stuff off if using ponder or scry. Requires some setup, but you get an extra card. Mental note and Thought Scour does the same clearing, but only net one card each.
Perilous Research may as well be inspiration on the turn you're going off if you are running enchantments to slow down attackers. Except it costs 2 less.
Visions of Beyond draws 3 cards if someone has a decent sized graveyard.
Zap kills off any X/1's. Or X/2's for those using T+L.
Petals of Insight is a bit expensive, but draws 3 cards or moves the top 3 cards to the bottom and buybacks. Mystic Speculation is better, but this is mystic #2.
Tezzeret's Gambit is free with enough reducers out.
Withering Gaze and Baleful Stare are good depending on your metagame. Lots of green? Enjoy! Lots of red? That's odd, but whatever... Enjoy!
For those running a few more creatures, Shared Discovery could do a lot of work... But I think most of us only see that many creatures if Talrand is out.
And finally, for those running Geth's Grimoire, Wistful thinking draws 4 cards.
Edit: In regards to Melek.
If you like Keep Watch, you may want to look into borrowing 100,000 arrows andTheft of Dreams.
They are sorceries, but are potent draw effects, as any player who has played a Tamiyo in any format can attest to.
Crimson Wisps is better than accelerate, and Reckless Charge is likewise powerful in that regard. Screaming Fury probably doesn't make the cut, but a host of threaten effects exist, and aside from being useful, you can always use them on yourself as a haste buff if needed.
Petals of Insight combos with Omniscience for infinite storm.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Missed crimson wisps somehow.
The threaten effects also double as panic effects: If they are on my side of the field, then they can't block. Pity WotC has never printed a cantripping threaten effect.
The ones in there that I was hoping to hear more back on were Tezzeret's Gambit, Predict, and Withering Gaze/Baleful Stare. Gambit being free, predict working with the top of the deck manipulation that the deck has, and gaze/stare being capable of drawing more cards than anything on that list.
Yeah, after goldfishing with Personal Tutor in the build I can see it's superior. Personal (or Mystical) Tutor with Melek in play can just explode things right then and there. It's glorious.
With Fabricate, sometimes I'm wanting another draw spell, especially when Tezzeret is already in my hand or in play, but other times it's just what the doctor ordered, especially when you can play it for :symu:, tutor Scroll Rack, play it, put a bonkers spell on top of the library and play it two times, all in the same turn. I'll be keeping it.
@chaos: I like Tezzeret's Gambit a good bit, but I don't know what I'd remove for it. As for the two Stares, there's no way I could justify playing those cards unless you play in a very consistently red and green meta all the time.
Melek rules. I can't wait to get more games in.
(And it might not seem a major difference, but T+L + diviner's wand + wheel = 2 turn clock. With maleck, it's 3 turns.)
Don't get me wrong. It's awesome winmore. But it's still winmore.
Great feedback in this thread. Sonik - have you posted your Melek list in this thread? I'm late to this party and this thread is enormous.
Hey, I asked Wizards for a 1UR 2/2, whenever you cast instant or sorcery, Zap but I didn't get it either. Melek is the general if you want to be rewarded casting instants and sorceries in these colors. Sure there are other decent U/R generals like Nin and Niv1.0 but they just don't reward us in the same way for doing what we like. You have to understand that any deck that limits themselves in this way, in these colors, is going to have to stretch for playables. We're already on the back foot. But you know what? I think I speak for many of us when I say I like the challenge.
Here's where I am at now, within a card or two:
1 Melek, Izzet Paragon
//Wheels
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Time Spiral
//Other Draw
1 Cerebral Vortex
1 Frantic Search
1 Oona's Grace
1 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Foresee
1 Plagiarize
//Recursion
1 Call to Mind
1 Mystic Retrieval
1 Recall
1 Past in Flames
//Library Manipulation
1 Brainstorm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Scroll Rack
1 Future Sight
//Tutors
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Intuition
1 Long-Term Plans
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
//Power Plays
1 Meekstone
1 Increasing Vengeance
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Guttersnipe
1 Molten Psyche
1 Talrand, Sky Summoner
1 Ignite Memories
1 Mind's Desire
1 Epic Experiment
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Arcane Denial
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Snap
1 Torpor Orb
1 Chaos Warp
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Possibility Storm
//Rituals
1 Mana Flare
1 Turnabout
1 Mana Geyser
//Cost Reducers
1 Goblin Electromancer
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Arcane Melee
1 Dream Halls
1 Stone Calendar
//Ramp
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Deranged Assistant
1 Izzet Signet
1 Walking Atlas
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Izzet Cluestone
1 Izzet Keyrune
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Command Tower
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Shivan Reef
1 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Volcanic Island
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 Haunted Fengraf
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Temple of the False God
1 Terrain Generator
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Great Furnace
9 Island
7 Mountain
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Warp
1 Temporal Fissure
1 Trinket Mage
1 Comet Storm
1 Sphinx-Bone Wand
I'd still like to improve the anti-aggro plan and maybe wish I played a bit more removal but mostly I'm happy with the performance. Given enough time in game, I will generally find a way to win. I really want to try out Overburden again soon, I added it and cut it without ever casting it and I want to see what it can do. I might be overboard on artifact ramp and could cut Izzet Cluestone or something similar for it.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Thanks Sonik! A question I have for everyone is why does no one run Enter the Infinite?
I feel like this card is like a one card kill. One example was something involving Inner Fire and Comet Storm. I like it in the list I am building because I think I will run a Blast of Genius to go along with my Dragonstorm package.
Just seems like a ton of ways to abuse having your library in your hand.
Even if you cast Enter the Infinite you still need the mana to use it AND your next ritual. Inner Fire is particularly bad because it will rarely if ever get you more than 2 mana or so. Compare with Turnabout and Mana Geyser.
I feel like it's too much setup and you have to play bad cards like Inner Fire to support it. If you want to win instantly that bad Firemind's Foresight fetching Reiterate/Reset (or Merchant Scroll for Turnabout)/Flame Jab takes a lot less work and the support cards don't suck on their own.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I see what you mean. I assume I will survive and untap on my next turn so I didn't even consider trying to win on the spot with it. My Inner Fire example is pretty bad, but I figure you win with any of the lists posted in this thread.
I guess I feel better casting an Enter The Infinite and waiting a turn rather than assembling some kind of infinite mana/draw engine.
Unless you have Reliquary Tower in play or you have cast it as an instant (Enter the Infinite is a sorcery), you will have to discard down at the end of your turn. That's just part of the setup process I find annoying. Not to mention if someone hits you with Sign in Blood or mills you for even one lousy card then you are now dead before your final draw step. Since everyone knows you have just Final Fortune'd yourself they'll just hold their counter mana, try to alpha strike you, mill a card or two... you are extremely vulnerable in this situation.
It's not worth the hassle unless you know for certain you can hit it off a Dream Halls, which is a card that is so busted it doesn't exactly need the help to get better. You can definitely win games off of it but I just choose to play other cards that are more useful at 11 mana or less.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
While I will agree that a zap on instant/sorcery would be amazing, I think that T+L counts as a reward for playing lots of spells, and it just so happens that a lot of those spells are instants/sorceries.
The difference is the rewards. Melek allows you to go off with more flashiness. Tibor and Lumia allows you to survive longer so that you can go off in the first place. I'm not saying that Melek is a bad choice, and he is certainly better than Niv 2.0. I'm saying that T+L in the command zone is like a controllable earthquake, while melek is a mind's desire. While the deck wins off mind's desire, the earthquake allows us to to get to the winning point at all. And since, when going off, you can typically draw into a win con anyway, T+L is giving us something we otherwise can't do reliably (stop us from dying), while Melek is giving us something we can already do reliably (win con).
Enter the Infinite grants no maximum hand size
I'll hit just the highlights- 5 player game (Melek, treva lifegain/populate, sharuum combo, kaalia burn the world, and Riku storm)
Kept an opener of 6 lands + Brainstorm, brainstormed into frantic search, izzet signet, and mind's desire. Played Melek turn 5, Riku played Arcane Melee on his turn 5 passing to me and my turn 6. A revealed long term plans with Frantic search in hand and the game was on. Plans twice, first for turnabout, do some instants on the stack, then for time spiral, double spiral, etc....
Game ended with Storm of 27, guttersnipe on board having done 20 damage himself, two time spirals, 2 windfalls for 7, a wheel of fortune, a flashbacked windfall for 14, and then a triple molten psyche with metalcraft.
Total damage tally across all 4 opponents was 920 damage... I could have easily broken 1,000 but the turn had already taken 15 minutes and I didn't want to draw it out further. To be honest, they had all died to the first Molten Psyche, but we just let it all happen so we could count up the total afterwards.
I'll add to their virtues: T+L can just own face with a Runechanter's Pike and the whole Pike/Inkmoth Nexus/Faerie Conclave plan is a lot better there than it is with Melek. I didn't really mean to leave them out in the cold up there and I did enjoy playing them for some time!
Owned. You are right. Still wouldn't play it though for the other reasons I mentioned, unless I was planning to win immediately and specifically with that card.
Did you buy that player a drink? I wish someone else would try to win my games for me too!! /brofist
As for me I have been a bad boy lately and haven't played this deck in almost a month. I have really been enjoying my Trostani Enchantress lately and just ended a game last night where I was making 4 25/25's and gaining 100 life per turn (with plenty of mana to spare), and nuked most of the table with a Garruk 1.0 Overrun. Also been giving Riku a little bit of love who has usually done well or just vomited the deck out on the table. Hopefully next week I'll have another story to share.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
I gave him an IOU for when he turned 21. I'm not sure how it escaped him that playing Melee and passing to the Melek deck was not the greatest idea, but between being distracted by his feud with Kaalia and my relatively "innocuous" board state of Melek + lands and a rock... he might not have suspected I was going to go from zero to 60 in 3.5 seconds.
I know I've been guilty of things similarly where I have set up and played mana flare, knowing that I'm going to 15 minute turn land on my next turn and ended up giving someone a table kill out of nowhere before I got my next turn, so I tried not to give him too hard of a time about it.
Thanks for the response. While everything there is true... I will point out that manland + pike works well with malek still. It's just that pike isn't as good with Malek.
But my question still stands. Is the sudden switch to malek simply because he specifically calls out instants/sorceries? Or is there more to it?
In my case specifically it was the feeling that Melek rewards you more for doing what you already want to be doing. So far in the few games that I have played Melek he makes the spell-slinging, spin-the-wheel combo better. Being able to double up on wheels and windfalls off the top digs you further into your deck so that you can find what you need. Also, his synergy with Mystical Tutor/Long-term Plans and Turnabout cannot be understated. If I have any cost reducers and cast a turnabout from the top of my library with Melek the game is pretty much over.
I do feel that T&L are much better at playing the choose your own adventure game, in which you can decide based on board state or hand if you want to spell sling into a storm win or beat someones face with a huge pike, but for those who want to go a more dedicated combo route, Melek just does it better.
I'll add to what Sims said which is on the money:
With Melek it's really more about power level. He can just win you the game out of nowhere. If you're just playing the game and suddenly a Mana Geyser or Mystical Tutor is sitting on top... just win! Tibor and Lumia and other Izzet generals can do those things, sure, but Melek just blows the game open out of nowhere. If your opponents don't answer him with removal then they are really at your mercy. Again compare to T+L... if you don't have the pike or the Diviner's Wand, you can only threaten a few damage a turn and your opponents can sort of just ignore you (unless they are playing tokens, in which case they are screwed).
I happen to really enjoy casting instants and sorceries as well so personally I like to be rewarded for doing so. But the former reasons are probably a lot more relevant.
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
As others have said, it's a difference in offensive power. Melek can really help you go off for a storm kill much easier in a single turn, even copying a single draw spell can give you that extra fuel to push through.
T&L have the advantage of coming down sooner, which helps in an aggro build; a more global wrath ability, which helps in some control manners; and evasion, which helps in aggro.
Nin comes down the sooner, and can give massive card boost to power through stalls.
Niv 1.0 is exceptionally good on all fronts, giving you draw power, control, wincon, and evasion, but is honestly quite threatening (as is Melek, or he soon should be).
Niv 2.0, is good for the grindy control style aggro, where you hit over multiple hits. Or if you include a lot of ritual style effects, or infinite mana if you like the combo style, but if that were the case you could easily build the standard niv 1.0 deck.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek