I'm still looking for a Sensei's Divining Top for my build, but I recently stumbled upon Lim-Dul's Vault and figured it's worth it as an EoT deck manipulator. I haven't played it yet, but does anyone else have any experience with this card?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
@um0123: speaking from experience, I suggest you settle for a plan and don't try going for a jack-of-all-trades, or you'll end up getting your posterior handed to you on a regular basis.
Since most of the cards you got here are, indeed, elements of aggro and combo strategies, I'll suggest cuts based on that:
- Descendants' Path looks awesome in theory but it has consistently failed to deliver when put through trial by fire. Unlike more bombastic stuff like Lurking Predators (another card that looks great... on paper), this thing only triggers during YOUR upkeep.
- Burgeoning is something I never did really profit from. You'll need lots of cards in hand if you end up drawing it late in game, and that's not something that happens frequently.
- You'll get a lot of flak for Rhystic Study, and retribution will usually not be limited to simply riding you of this pesky card. It's just that hated. And you can't screen it adequately on an aggro build.
- I'd kill all your countermagic. You don't run enough control stuff for the few you got to gravitate on your plan. And even if you do run enough counterspells, you have to leave enough mana open for using them, which means less slivers played...
- Cryptic Gateway is another thing that looks awesome on paper but does not work as awesomely on the battlefield. Think that you need to tap two slivers to put another one in play. While it seems little, take it from me: quite frequently, even a single sliver is too much! (and no, I'm not talking about any one from the Unholy Trinity.) And even if you did get, say, four or so slivers for it to activate twice, think that your foes won't like it around either for long and you don't run (enough) countermagic to shield it.
- Gilded Lotus is one of the most expensive removal baits ever, and of limited usefulness on a 5-color deck IMHO. You tap it for 3 mana of a single color, not for 3 mana of any color combination you want.
- Abundance and Wild Pair are both nice toys to have but you can cut them without grief. The first one is functionally replaced by Sylvan Library and Sensei's Divining Top, and the second is simply a mana doubler limited to creatures only.
Thorncaster Sliver and Vault of the Archangel is going to be INSANELY good. Another form of evasion as you can use the 1 damage of deathouch to kill almost anything.
Slate of Ancestry may not be too bad a card to have in this type of deck if you are just dropping guys like crazy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
A friend of mine commented that since Essence Sliver's ability is not a keyword but a triggered ability, and the recently spoiled Syphon Sliver's IS a keyword -and thus a static ability-, if both of them were in play you would gain 2 life for each damage dealt.
702.14a Lifelink is a static ability.
702.14b Damage dealt by a source with lifelink causes that source's controller, or its owner if it has no controller, to gain that much life (in addition to any other results that damage causes). See rule 119.3.
702.14c If a permanent leaves the battlefield before an effect causes it to deal damage, its last known information is used to determine whether it had lifelink.
702.14d The lifelink rules function no matter what zone an object with lifelink deals damage from.
702.14e Multiple instances of lifelink on the same object are redundant.
I'm delving on the triggered abilities section of the comprehensive rules but so far what he said seems correct...
A friend of mine commented that since Essence Sliver's ability is not a keyword but a triggered ability, and the recently spoiled Syphon Sliver's IS a keyword -and thus a static ability-, if both of them were in play you would gain 2 life for each damage dealt.
702.14a Lifelink is a static ability.
702.14b Damage dealt by a source with lifelink causes that source's controller, or its owner if it has no controller, to gain that much life (in addition to any other results that damage causes). See rule 119.3.
702.14c If a permanent leaves the battlefield before an effect causes it to deal damage, its last known information is used to determine whether it had lifelink.
702.14d The lifelink rules function no matter what zone an object with lifelink deals damage from.
702.14e Multiple instances of lifelink on the same object are redundant.
I'm delving on the triggered abilities section of the comprehensive rules but so far what he said seems correct...
He is correct. Lifelink stacks with the old wording.
What I'm interested in trying the most is Domri Rade, not because I intend to ultimate with him, although doing that would make half the Sliver Hive's function redundant, but because he is an advantage engine on pluses.
Also, it's going to be interesting to see how Dosan works because unlike City of Solitude, Slivers still function for the most part on activated abilities.
Last, I realize I should probably make room for Telekinetic Sliver. Your upkeep or end step, clear a path seems like something a swarm could use.
@Mockingbird: went and updated my aggro list today, partly based in what you did. That Primal Surge-centered strategy is awesome when it works--which, on a tutorless deck, happens once in a green moon.
I wanted to add more flash to that list (think Vedalken Orrery and Leyline of Anticipation), but I could not make up my mind on what to sack for the time being.
@Mockingbird: went and updated my aggro list today, partly based in what you did. That Primal Surge-centered strategy is awesome when it works--which, on a tutorless deck, happens once in a green moon.
I wanted to add more flash to that list (think Vedalken Orrery and Leyline of Anticipation), but I could not make up my mind on what to sack for the time being.
My biggest fear at the moment is control because I have bad experiences with blue-hardlock. As a result, while Primal Surge is too good to pass up, the focus I'm aiming for is to dig for Cavern of Souls and Root Sliver as fast as I can. Control is also why I'm testing out Dosan the Falling Leaf to see what happens if I take the reverse approach of instead of going toe to toe with instants, drag them to my level and see if I can beat them out on abilities.
The compromise for both our positions though may be to test Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir because we'd both get what we want (non-Sliver Quick Sliver that hoses instant speed). As for what to make room for in terms of flash... I don't know.
Also, I stumbled across this for the maybe board: Cathars' Crusade. That would definitely make Sliver Queen a bit more frightful.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I've tried Teferi in the past, but even with a dozen counterspells and a load of con(troll)-ish stuff to back him up I found it sends your threat factor through the roof. Maybe Dosan is not so hostile-looking, though it does disrupt my own end-of-turn plays... I picture I could tutor with Overlord on a foe's turn and then cast what I got on my own.
I try not to play against lockdown decks on principle since they tend to make life miserable for everyone involved.
Oh well... with M14 entirely spoiled, it seems we're not getting any more slivers this time around. Shame. I was expecting a new ruler to join the Unholy Trinity... or a sliver with hexproof... :'(
Oh well... with M14 entirely spoiled, it seems we're not getting any more slivers this time around. Shame. I was expecting a new ruler to join the Unholy Trinity... or a sliver with hexproof... :'(
Amen my Sliver brotha.' Unless we get something in Theros, we got some cute additions. Definitely going to test Thorncaster Sliver. Was hoping for a straight deathtouch sliver as Toxin Sliver isn't truly deathtouch.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Oh well... with M14 entirely spoiled, it seems we're not getting any more slivers this time around. Shame. I was expecting a new ruler to join the Unholy Trinity... or a sliver with hexproof... :'(
Well, I wasn't expecting another 7/7 WUBRG in a core set because Wizards is all about dumbing down the Core sets, but to be honest, a Hexproof Sliver is probably going to be awhile because it's been 15 years, and people still probably hate Crystalline Sliver more than any other non-boss Sliver. Providing an upgrade is probably not in Wizards' best interest. But when they do, it'll probably be multicolored, and hopefully Creative will have reverted Sliver design back to their classic form instead of the tendril-things they were in M14.
Honestly the only new Slivers I will be using is Galerider and Manaweft. Also planning on getting my hands on a Mutavault and MAYBE a Door of Destinies. (Both reprints) I really do NOT like a lot of the other ones.
Honestly the only new Slivers I will be using is Galerider and Manaweft. Also planning on getting my hands on a Mutavault and MAYBE a Door of Destinies. (Both reprints) I really do NOT like a lot of the other ones.
I feel the new Haste sliver is very important too. Redundancy for this sliver and mana sliver are both very good for combo builds.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Slivers that want to target your slivers aren't generally good.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Also, Magma Sliver has always been more of a win more - or attack deterrent in my deck. I like it though because it makes things HUGE.
In my deck I go off with enough slivers to not matter if they are 1/1s or 1000/1000s...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Since most of the cards you got here are, indeed, elements of aggro and combo strategies, I'll suggest cuts based on that:
- Descendants' Path looks awesome in theory but it has consistently failed to deliver when put through trial by fire. Unlike more bombastic stuff like Lurking Predators (another card that looks great... on paper), this thing only triggers during YOUR upkeep.
- Burgeoning is something I never did really profit from. You'll need lots of cards in hand if you end up drawing it late in game, and that's not something that happens frequently.
- You'll get a lot of flak for Rhystic Study, and retribution will usually not be limited to simply riding you of this pesky card. It's just that hated. And you can't screen it adequately on an aggro build.
- I'd kill all your countermagic. You don't run enough control stuff for the few you got to gravitate on your plan. And even if you do run enough counterspells, you have to leave enough mana open for using them, which means less slivers played...
- Cryptic Gateway is another thing that looks awesome on paper but does not work as awesomely on the battlefield. Think that you need to tap two slivers to put another one in play. While it seems little, take it from me: quite frequently, even a single sliver is too much! (and no, I'm not talking about any one from the Unholy Trinity.) And even if you did get, say, four or so slivers for it to activate twice, think that your foes won't like it around either for long and you don't run (enough) countermagic to shield it.
- Gilded Lotus is one of the most expensive removal baits ever, and of limited usefulness on a 5-color deck IMHO. You tap it for 3 mana of a single color, not for 3 mana of any color combination you want.
- Abundance and Wild Pair are both nice toys to have but you can cut them without grief. The first one is functionally replaced by Sylvan Library and Sensei's Divining Top, and the second is simply a mana doubler limited to creatures only.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Slate of Ancestry may not be too bad a card to have in this type of deck if you are just dropping guys like crazy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
I got your back bro. Slivers 4 lyfe.
702.14b Damage dealt by a source with lifelink causes that source's controller, or its owner if it has no controller, to gain that much life (in addition to any other results that damage causes). See rule 119.3.
702.14c If a permanent leaves the battlefield before an effect causes it to deal damage, its last known information is used to determine whether it had lifelink.
702.14d The lifelink rules function no matter what zone an object with lifelink deals damage from.
702.14e Multiple instances of lifelink on the same object are redundant.
I'm delving on the triggered abilities section of the comprehensive rules but so far what he said seems correct...
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
He is correct. Lifelink stacks with the old wording.
1 Sliver Overlord
Lands: 38
1 Arid Mesa
1 Badlands
1 Bayou
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Breeding Pool
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Flooded Strand
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 High Market
1 Krosan Verge
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plateau
1 Polluted Delta
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Savannah
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Scrubland
1 Stomping Ground
1 Strip Mine
1 Taiga
1 Temple Garden
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Volcanic Island
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Acidic Sliver
1 Blur Sliver
1 Bonescythe Sliver
1 Cautery Sliver
1 Crystalline Sliver
1 Darkheart Sliver
1 Galerider Sliver
1 Gemhide Sliver
1 Ghostflame Sliver
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Heart Sliver
1 Hibernation Sliver
1 Homing Sliver
1 Manaweft Sliver
1 Mesmeric Sliver
1 Necrotic Sliver
1 Predatory Sliver
1 Quick Sliver
1 Root Sliver
1 Sedge Sliver
1 Sentinel Sliver
1 Shadow Sliver
1 Shifting Sliver
1 Sliver Legion
1 Sliver Queen
1 Striking Sliver
1 Synapse Sliver
1 Thorncaster Sliver
1 Toxin Sliver
1 Ward Sliver
Non-Slivers: 5
1 Amoeboid Changeling
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Shapesharer
1 Mirror Entity
1 Sun Titan
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Expedition Map
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantments: 5
1 Asceticism
1 Maelstrom Nexus
1 Mana Echoes
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Mirari's Wake
Instants: 7
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Hinder
1 Negate
1 Spell Crumple
1 Voidslime
1 Vampiric Tutor
Planeswalkers: 2
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sorceries: 6
1 All is Dust
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Living Death
1 Patriarch's Bidding
1 Primal Surge
1 Sylvan Scrying
Cards I'm also considering include Domri Rade, Training Grounds, Dosan the Falling Leaf, Mana Reflection, and Perilous Forays.
Edit: another Degenerate Infinite Loop combo that could put in the OP:
Sliver Queen + Basal Sliver + Bitter Ordeal
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Otherwise, looks scary.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Hm... I could try:
-1 Counterspell
-1 Hinder
-1 Negate
-1 Spell Crumple
-1 Voidslime
-1 Lightning Greaves
+Farseek
+Domri Rade
+Training Grounds
+Dosan the Falling Leaf (or Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir)
+Mana Reflection
+Perilous Forays
What I'm interested in trying the most is Domri Rade, not because I intend to ultimate with him, although doing that would make half the Sliver Hive's function redundant, but because he is an advantage engine on pluses.
Also, it's going to be interesting to see how Dosan works because unlike City of Solitude, Slivers still function for the most part on activated abilities.
Last, I realize I should probably make room for Telekinetic Sliver. Your upkeep or end step, clear a path seems like something a swarm could use.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I wanted to add more flash to that list (think Vedalken Orrery and Leyline of Anticipation), but I could not make up my mind on what to sack for the time being.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
My biggest fear at the moment is control because I have bad experiences with blue-hardlock. As a result, while Primal Surge is too good to pass up, the focus I'm aiming for is to dig for Cavern of Souls and Root Sliver as fast as I can. Control is also why I'm testing out Dosan the Falling Leaf to see what happens if I take the reverse approach of instead of going toe to toe with instants, drag them to my level and see if I can beat them out on abilities.
The compromise for both our positions though may be to test Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir because we'd both get what we want (non-Sliver Quick Sliver that hoses instant speed). As for what to make room for in terms of flash... I don't know.
Also, I stumbled across this for the maybe board: Cathars' Crusade. That would definitely make Sliver Queen a bit more frightful.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I try not to play against lockdown decks on principle since they tend to make life miserable for everyone involved.
Added your suggestions to the list
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Amen my Sliver brotha.' Unless we get something in Theros, we got some cute additions. Definitely going to test Thorncaster Sliver. Was hoping for a straight deathtouch sliver as Toxin Sliver isn't truly deathtouch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Well, I wasn't expecting another 7/7 WUBRG in a core set because Wizards is all about dumbing down the Core sets, but to be honest, a Hexproof Sliver is probably going to be awhile because it's been 15 years, and people still probably hate Crystalline Sliver more than any other non-boss Sliver. Providing an upgrade is probably not in Wizards' best interest. But when they do, it'll probably be multicolored, and hopefully Creative will have reverted Sliver design back to their classic form instead of the tendril-things they were in M14.
In the meantime, we still have Asceticism and Privileged Position to put over the gap.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I feel the new Haste sliver is very important too. Redundancy for this sliver and mana sliver are both very good for combo builds.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I think Firewake Sliver and Heart Sliver are enough Haste enbalers when it counts to being on Slivers. After that I would search for things that provide haste + a bonus. like Urabrask, the Hidden (Flavorful Sliver Look-alike) or In the Web of War.
Also Thousand-Year Old Elixir is useful as well if you need to tap your Slivers for combos like Telekinetic Sliver and Gemhide sliver. Kinda gets negated by Crystalline Sliver but still a good addition to any Sliver Combo deck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Slivers that want to target your slivers aren't generally good.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Magma Sliver still has to prove it's worth the slot on my build.
I want to make room for Galerider, Manaweft, Thorncaster, Bonescythe, Syphon and Sentinel. Don't ask me how I'm going to do that.
[Horde] Phyrexia ascendant - The Virus
WUBRG - [Primer] Sliver Overlord - The Swarm - WUBRG
Dartboard?
Also, Magma Sliver has always been more of a win more - or attack deterrent in my deck. I like it though because it makes things HUGE.
In my deck I go off with enough slivers to not matter if they are 1/1s or 1000/1000s...
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Only wondering is there a budget land list for those fellows who can't afford those extra dual lands?
All of mine are in legacy decks.
And I can't find an answer if your general gets tucked.
Any reason why there isn't a green sun/ chord of calling/ or worldy tutor?
Looking forward to making a sliver edh
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake