Sickening Shoal for Bone Shredder - I needed universal spot removal and as basically free, this seems like a good place to look. Throst speaks highly of this card.
Dark Confidant for Ogre Slumlord - I figured while making changes may as well try Bob. Without the Stax guys, tokens are less relevant so slumlord was an easier choice.
Vampiric Tutor for Diabolic Tutor - Since I added Bob in, I ponied up and finally got that lower CMC Vamp tutor.
Memory Jar for Bloodline Keeper - I was wanting to try jar for a while and was tuck on a good swap. Keeper narrowly edged out Solemn Simulacrum as the card I swapped jar in for.
I got 1 game in trying the mentioned changes. I didn't get to many of the new cards like i wished, but Sign in blood early and then again with XHD proved to give me some nice fuel. All is Dust absolutely saved my hide; I really should have added the card earlier. It saved me from getting ran over and helped remove a PW that was about to ultimate next turn. I was really hoping to see Dark Confidant, Sickening Shoal, and Memory Jar, but they evaded me that game. I ultimately lost as I had out a billion land, cabal Coffers and Vesuva copying coffers and nothing to do with it, but overall, the deck performed well and blew much up.
I almost got a Blood Scrivener, but I wanted to test a couple games before going that direction, although he could be a better option that Solemn Simulacrum in the long run.
check out my thraimundar deck and/or my Kresh deck, they have a ton of kill spells/removal you might find interesting... my personal favorite thought is Tribute to hunger just because we have a jenara enchantment deck and target spells are worthless against him.
we have fleshbag marauder in place of tribute, as he is pretty cute with chainer and how many times you can pay 3 mana/life
the removal I still want to try out is oubliette. Black oblivion ring seems strong.
we have fleshbag marauder in place of tribute, as he is pretty cute with chainer and how many times you can pay 3 mana/life
the removal I still want to try out is oubliette. Black oblivion ring seems strong.
I might try out darkness too
Oubliette only hits creatures. At that point does it seem stronger than Murder?
we have fleshbag marauder in place of tribute, as he is pretty cute with chainer and how many times you can pay 3 mana/life
the removal I still want to try out is oubliette. Black oblivion ring seems strong.
we have fleshbag marauder in place of tribute, as he is pretty cute with chainer and how many times you can pay 3 mana/life
the removal I still want to try out is oubliette. Black oblivion ring seems strong.
You can hard cast it.
Sickening Shoal is a card I never use lightly, I hold onto it basically to keep be from losing, or to kill the only creature keeping me from losing.
The only time i cast it early on is to get rid of kaalia, jhoria, arcuum, azusa, or omnath.
Left unattended early game those generals tend to get out of hand.
The 2for1 is usually okay as later game we usually have great card advantage.
Oh yeah, and dont forget beseech the queen is 6cc.
Awesome for shoal, not so awesome for confidant.
A rise of kill on sight generals has me interested in sickening shoal. I see edric, azusa, and kaalia regularly at the basement playgroup and a guy at my shop has started using zur among other nasties at the shop. Ideally Sickening Shoal can stop an early good start while we get our resources set up.
check out my thraimundar deck and/or my Kresh deck, they have a ton of kill spells/removal you might find interesting... my personal favorite thought is Tribute to hunger just because we have a jenara enchantment deck and target spells are worthless against him.
slum reaper is awesome too, if you need more sac effects or just want to be able to tutor for one with dimir house guard.
I like that no one sees darkness coming, but having a perma fog on the board is pretty attractive as well.
Sunstone is a quite interesting late game option with Crucible of Worlds out. However, at that point, Glacial Chasm would be the better play to chain off of crucible.
We run more sac outlets and tutors than most decks.
In a heavy artifact stax version with lots of mana rocks orb is pretty good.
The bigger problem is other people playing mana rocks, as we dont have a huge way to get rid of them while keeping ours.
We run more sac outlets and tutors than most decks.
In a heavy artifact stax version with lots of mana rocks orb is pretty good.
The bigger problem is other people playing mana rocks, as we dont have a huge way to get rid of them while keeping ours.
True story, with our tutors, redundancy, and sac outlets, tuck isn't as big of a deal
My opinion on Geth is that, given his functional redundancy with our General, he is a wasted slot. This is especially relevant because he is taking up a "bomb card" slot. The deck needs X acceleration based upon meta, and Y card draw based up acceleration, so that those slots are more or less mutually exclusive with the Geth slots. That means Geth is supposed to have a big, game-swinging effect... and all he does is what Chainer does, but for more mana and less life. Not useless, Geth has his spots, but I feel it is better to play a non-General-redundant effect to get the most mileage out of the card slot.
My opinion on Geth is that, given his functional redundancy with our General, he is a wasted slot. This is especially relevant because he is taking up a "bomb card" slot. The deck needs X acceleration based upon meta, and Y card draw based up acceleration, so that those slots are more or less mutually exclusive with the Geth slots. That means Geth is supposed to have a big, game-swinging effect... and all he does is what Chainer does, but for more mana and less life. Not useless, Geth has his spots, but I feel it is better to play a non-General-redundant effect to get the most mileage out of the card slot.
My opinion on Geth is that, given his functional redundancy with our General, he is a wasted slot. This is especially relevant because he is taking up a "bomb card" slot. The deck needs X acceleration based upon meta, and Y card draw based up acceleration, so that those slots are more or less mutually exclusive with the Geth slots. That means Geth is supposed to have a big, game-swinging effect... and all he does is what Chainer does, but for more mana and less life. Not useless, Geth has his spots, but I feel it is better to play a non-General-redundant effect to get the most mileage out of the card slot.
I'm definitely leaning in that direction. In a faster game, Geth just isn't as good. I'm thinking about going back towards a cheap reanimation spell like Reanimate. I seem to have been lacking something in this vein for a while. Codex Shredder also seems like a popular option
I'm definitely leaning in that direction. In a faster game, Geth just isn't as good. I'm thinking about going back towards a cheap reanimation spell like Reanimate. I seem to have been lacking something in this vein for a while. Codex Shredder also seems like a popular option
I've actually been thinking about cutting Entomb recently. I don't have an early-game plan for it anymore without the Clamp package, and it's been clogging my draws recently. Realistically it's just an issue of a small sample-size and no need to overreact, but I only want Entomb when Chainer is in play anymore.
I've actually been thinking about cutting Entomb recently. I don't have an early-game plan for it anymore without the Clamp package, and it's been clogging my draws recently. Realistically it's just an issue of a small sample-size and no need to overreact, but I only want Entomb when Chainer is in play anymore.
I've won a lot of games off of Entomb, so I can't say too much bad about it. After playing with both, I still prefer it to Vampiric tutor most of the time, especially later in the game. It was definitely better when I had a few cheap reanimation spells hands, but its still nice since it works instant speed. Its a one cost tutor that generally we want to play about turn 5-7ish to grab a specific answer once we get set up.
Did anyone wind up actually making the transition to a more dark confidant focused Chainer build? I'm looking at doing it myself, and I'm curious to see what other people did.
Did anyone wind up actually making the transition to a more dark confidant focused Chainer build? I'm looking at doing it myself, and I'm curious to see what other people did.
I have dark confidant currently sleeved up, but I haven't got too many test games in with him. My early inclinations are that he makes the deck overall stronger, especially when dropped on turn 2, but I still have some tweaking with slots before I make my final evaluation
I did. I run a discard heavy build and he's been awesome. My cmc 3.42, but I've ways to regain lost life when, say, Myojin shows up first.
O want to say I'm approximately in the 3.4 CMC ballpark as well. I need to check when I get home. This is about as low as we can go and still keep all of our business spells.
Would either of the two of you have decklists that you could post? I'm rather curious as to what you consider the business spells of a chainer deck at the upper end of the curve - especially given how high my average cmc is right now. Also, thoughts on dark tutelage?
Would either of the two of you have decklists that you could post? I'm rather curious as to what you consider the business spells of a chainer deck at the upper end of the curve - especially given how high my average cmc is right now. Also, thoughts on dark tutelage?
I've used Dark Tutelage and its a good card is a deck Bob would be good in. Its a slightly worse phyrexian arena, but I've won games because of it. I don't currently have it in my list, but its a card worth looking at depending on your construction. I'll have to post my list next chance I get, currently on vacation.
check out my thraimundar deck and/or my Kresh deck, they have a ton of kill spells/removal you might find interesting... my personal favorite thought is Tribute to hunger just because we have a jenara enchantment deck and target spells are worthless against him.
Also what exactly is the tuck rule?
the removal I still want to try out is oubliette. Black oblivion ring seems strong.
I might try out darkness too
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
Oubliette only hits creatures. At that point does it seem stronger than Murder?
[EDH]
[EDH]
[EDH]
really cute if we steal a sunbtitan
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
What about slum reaper
Why play Darkness when you could play Sunstone and Snow lands!
I like that no one sees darkness coming, but having a perma fog on the board is pretty attractive as well.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
A rise of kill on sight generals has me interested in sickening shoal. I see edric, azusa, and kaalia regularly at the basement playgroup and a guy at my shop has started using zur among other nasties at the shop. Ideally Sickening Shoal can stop an early good start while we get our resources set up.
Thanks on the beseech the queen tip.
Tribute to hunger is a nice card, but as others have said, Slum Reaper and Fleshbag Marauder fill this role for us.
As to the 'tuck rule'. Currently the commander can be tucked with a spell like hinder, but some folk would like it to go to the command zone instead.
Sunstone is a quite interesting late game option with Crucible of Worlds out. However, at that point, Glacial Chasm would be the better play to chain off of crucible.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
In search of a foil french Dromar, the Banisher, pm me if you have one you want to part with, also foil Stratadon's.
then whats the point of the three blue stables: Spin into Myth,Hinder, and Spell Crumple?
this makes me want to put Orb into my Thrax deck lol
We run more sac outlets and tutors than most decks.
In a heavy artifact stax version with lots of mana rocks orb is pretty good.
The bigger problem is other people playing mana rocks, as we dont have a huge way to get rid of them while keeping ours.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
In search of a foil french Dromar, the Banisher, pm me if you have one you want to part with, also foil Stratadon's.
There are only so many cards I would love to have but are hard to find and this is one of them, so good for stax
True story, with our tutors, redundancy, and sac outlets, tuck isn't as big of a deal
Nether Void would be great once chainer comes out to protect our board position...stupid reserve list.
_____
What is the general opinion on Geth these days?
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Verdict or lord of the vault?
My opinion on Geth is that, given his functional redundancy with our General, he is a wasted slot. This is especially relevant because he is taking up a "bomb card" slot. The deck needs X acceleration based upon meta, and Y card draw based up acceleration, so that those slots are more or less mutually exclusive with the Geth slots. That means Geth is supposed to have a big, game-swinging effect... and all he does is what Chainer does, but for more mana and less life. Not useless, Geth has his spots, but I feel it is better to play a non-General-redundant effect to get the most mileage out of the card slot.
[EDH]
[EDH]
[EDH]
definitely something else should replace it
I'm definitely leaning in that direction. In a faster game, Geth just isn't as good. I'm thinking about going back towards a cheap reanimation spell like Reanimate. I seem to have been lacking something in this vein for a while. Codex Shredder also seems like a popular option
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
I've actually been thinking about cutting Entomb recently. I don't have an early-game plan for it anymore without the Clamp package, and it's been clogging my draws recently. Realistically it's just an issue of a small sample-size and no need to overreact, but I only want Entomb when Chainer is in play anymore.
[EDH]
[EDH]
[EDH]
I've won a lot of games off of Entomb, so I can't say too much bad about it. After playing with both, I still prefer it to Vampiric tutor most of the time, especially later in the game. It was definitely better when I had a few cheap reanimation spells hands, but its still nice since it works instant speed. Its a one cost tutor that generally we want to play about turn 5-7ish to grab a specific answer once we get set up.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
I mostly dont want to lost all is dust and decree of pain
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
I have dark confidant currently sleeved up, but I haven't got too many test games in with him. My early inclinations are that he makes the deck overall stronger, especially when dropped on turn 2, but I still have some tweaking with slots before I make my final evaluation
O want to say I'm approximately in the 3.4 CMC ballpark as well. I need to check when I get home. This is about as low as we can go and still keep all of our business spells.
I stuck all is dust in when I added Dark confidant. All is dust would definitely stay. decree of pain probably wouldn't make the cut however
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
I've used Dark Tutelage and its a good card is a deck Bob would be good in. Its a slightly worse phyrexian arena, but I've won games because of it. I don't currently have it in my list, but its a card worth looking at depending on your construction. I'll have to post my list next chance I get, currently on vacation.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh