Jiv said people who don't support Wizards actually hate Magic. He doesn't support Wizards online. Ergo, he either misstated his position – or he's a hypocrite who secretly hates Magic. (I'll be honest: I suspect he just misstated his position.)
That's what this particular argument comes down to.
Clearly my not playing MTGO is the equivalent of me not supporting magic and not you misrepresenting my statements because you disagree with me. You really have an obsession with this point and yet you're wrong about it.
Wizards also doesn't sell singles so unless you are buying boxes or packs of new cards you really arent supporting wizards. You are supporting stores like SCG and other retailers who control the secondary market.
Saying that you buy your EDH cards to support Wizards is total bs. 90% of cards worth anything in EDH are not the new ones.
Indeed. I believe most EDH players don't support the game they claim to enjoy.
Is a counterfeit card a friend has owned for 3 or more years that you earnestly believe he thought was real (partially because he paid it's real cash price from what he thought was a reputable dealer) that went undetected for a couple dozen months sleeved up in a deck that wasn't detected as counterfeit until he took it out of the deck to trade - the same as a card with a post-it of "MOAT" on it ?
We didn't think it was the same thing. We let him keep the Moat in his deck as long as long as he wouldn't trade it or sell it. I'm inclined to say that you would think otherwise.
Wizards also doesn't sell singles so unless you are buying boxes or packs of new cards you really arent supporting wizards. You are supporting stores like SCG and other retailers who control the secondary market.
Saying that you buy your EDH cards to support Wizards is total bs. 90% of cards worth anything in EDH are not the new ones.
I've addressed this already: The existence of the secondary market does support Wizards. Purchasing secondary cards preserves their value. That value is what allows Wizards to be profitable by selling new packs.
Is a counterfeit card a friend has owned for 3 or more years that you earnestly believe he thought was real (partially because he paid it's real cash price from what he thought was a reputable dealer) that went undetected for a couple dozen months sleeved up in a deck that wasn't detected as counterfeit until he took it out of the deck to trade - the same as a card with a post-it of "MOAT" on it ?
We didn't think it was the same thing. We let him keep the Moat in his deck as long as he wouldn't trade it or sell it. I'm inclined that you would think otherwise.
I would personally never give someone a hard time who thought they legitimately bought a legal version of the card and got ripped off. To me thats as good as the real thing as far as a casual format is concerned.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Is a counterfeit card a friend has owned for 3 or more years that you earnestly believe he thought was real (partially because he paid it's real cash price from what he thought was a reputable dealer) that went undetected for a couple dozen months sleeved up in a deck that wasn't detected as counterfeit until he took it out of the deck to trade - the same as a card with a post-it of "MOAT" on it ?
We didn't think it was the same thing. We let him keep the Moat in his deck as long as he wouldn't trade it or sell it. I'm inclined that you would think otherwise.
Most proxies are just poorly made counterfeits. If a friend payed full price for a card he thought was real I'd have a hard time saying he couldn't use it. But that's me being a person and not a legality machine. As for myself? If I bought a counterfeit I wouldn't use it because at the end of the day, it's not a card.
The fact that they didn't - or, rather, have yet to - go after MWS is irrelevant. They didn't go after Cockatrice at the same time they shut down that drafting site however many years ago either. The fact that they're not going after everyone at once is meaningless.
Only one problem: Not even the Hasbro Lawyers think it's infringement. Otherwise they'd have gone after MWS and Cockatrice for it.
I'd be surprised if they did copyright a couple of sentences which is what a card boils down to. Though it's probably possible with the ridiculous copyright laws out there.
Is a counterfeit card a friend has owned for 3 or more years that you earnestly believe he thought was real (partially because he paid it's real cash price from what he thought was a reputable dealer) that went undetected for a couple dozen months sleeved up in a deck that wasn't detected as counterfeit until he took it out of the deck to trade - the same as a card with a post-it of "MOAT" on it ?
We didn't think it was the same thing. We let him keep the Moat in his deck as long as long as he wouldn't trade it or sell it. I'm inclined that you would think otherwise.
I'm with you on this one. The guy got ripped off.
But realize this: two wrongs don't make it right. If I bought a $50 gift card to McDonalds that was actually counterfeit, McDonalds isn't going to say "Well, we're sorry you got ripped off, here's $50."
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Again, you are ignorant of what they did go after Brukie for. It was improper use of the Gatherer service, not copyright infringement. Violation of Terms of Service Agreement.
EDIT: Crap, I ended a sentence with a proposition and I have no idea how to reword it to be correct.
I'll say the same thing here that I've said in the 40 billion other threads of this nature:
-If the card is in the mail/you've specifically expressed intent to own it, then by all means proxy it up. Just try to replace it within a month.
-If you own another copy (and it's something expensive, e.g. Mana crypt, duals, etc.) then feel free.
-If you just want to see "how this deck would play"... then man up, buy the cards, or build something else. I didn't come here to play Magic: Christmas Land.
Why not use proxies to play in formats you can't play due to pocketbook restrictions. I love legacy. My friends love Legacy. If we live in a world where proxies are not ok then I can't play legacy. If someone is testing for a legacy tournament and I pull out my proxied BUG deck, if they say oh I won't play you because you use proxies I would be flabbergasted. Proxies are fine as long you are not playing for anything. In casual, testing, edh, or whatever proxies are just fine. As long as your not the guy with a blank card and you just say what it is when you play it. At least get a sharpie.
Proxies are fine as long you are not playing for anything. In casual, testing, edh, or whatever proxies are just fine.
So in EDH you would be fine with all Proxies all the time?
I mean why use real cards at all? It is a casual format in which you are almost never playing for anything (well anything material that is).
Of course that highlights the differences between using proxies casually and competitively. Using them to test for a tournament is not the same as using them in casual play.
Why not use proxies to play in formats you can't play due to pocketbook restrictions. I love legacy. My friends love Legacy. If we live in a world where proxies are not ok then I can't play legacy. If someone is testing for a legacy tournament and I pull out my proxied BUG deck, if they say oh I won't play you because you use proxies I would be flabbergasted. Proxies are fine as long you are not playing for anything. In casual, testing, edh, or whatever proxies are just fine. As long as your not the guy with a blank card and you just say what it is when you play it. At least get a sharpie.
If that is what you see as fair, then I say more power to you. I, obviously, have no right to tell other people how they should/shouldn't play with their playgroup. However, as someone who has never seen the draw in making up a proxy deck, I would be hard pressed to not find it a bit silly if I sat down to play a game of EDH, and the person across the table pulled out a proxy deck out cards they have no intention to actually own. Again, that's just my personal viewpoint. Of you and your friends have fun playing like that, then by all means go ahead. At the end of the day, I think people forget what the 'G' in 'TCG' stands for - game. And really, if you're not having fun playing a game, then you've done something seriously wrong.
(Unless your idea of 'fun' happens to be 'not having fun', in which case... don't have fun?)
All cards are proxies, really. Some of you may bristle to hear that, but it's true. When someone at your store needs to know if Waterfront Bouncer is actually a merfolk, the physical card is about as useful as a sharpied island. On these matters we refer to a database for the actual card text rather than the cardboard game pieces that so many squander their paychecks on.
I prefer to play with cards from WotC because they're tournament legal and more aesthetic than most alternatives, but that's just me. I also think that scarcity encourages resourcefulness and creativity, and that playgroups where everyone is playing within limited means are more interesting than playgroups tending towards optimization.
Ideally, everyone can play at a similar power level, and the only edge to be gained is a strategic one, but sometimes the budgetary gap between players is too great. If a player is using mostly cheap cards and losing to powerhouses like Nether Void and Gaea's Cradle, you should be happy to give that player the handicap of using proxies because the games will be more enjoyable that way. Even better, you could build down to their level.
But if you would refuse to play against a proxied Mana Drain while there's a Mana Drain in your deck, that's shameful.
All cards are proxies, really. Some of you may bristle to hear that, but it's true. When someone at your store needs to know if Waterfront Bouncer is actually a merfolk, the physical card is about as useful as a sharpied island. We defer to a database of actual card text on these matters rather than the cardboard game pieces that so many squander their paychecks on.
I prefer to play with cards from WotC because they're tournament legal and more aesthetic than most alternatives, but that's just me. I also think that scarcity encourages resourcefulness and creativity, and that playgroups where everyone is playing within limited means are more interesting than playgroups tending towards optimization.
Ideally, everyone can play at a similar power level, and the only edge to be gained is a strategic one, but sometimes the budgetary gap between players is too great. If a player is using mostly cheap cards and losing to powerhouses like Nether Void and Gaea's Cradle, you should be happy to give that player the handicap of using proxies because the games will be more enjoyable that way. Even better, you could build down to their level.
But if you would refuse to play against a proxied Mana Drain while there's a Mana Drain in your deck, that's shameful.
[EDH] It's built to be a casual format and to a specific vision, and if you don't like the vision, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to change to accommodate everyone. Big tent is not a goal.
I rarely use proxies, and I never run proxies of cards I don't own unless I am playtesting a pricey card before spending the money to purchase it, or I have purchased or traded for the card and am waiting for it to arrive.
I own playsets of the original dual lands. I am currently running 20 decks, and many of them are 2 or 3 colored. I have sometimes proxied a Tundra (for example), but as I pick up more shocklands, I'm just using a Hallowed Fountain instead of Tundra - and in some decks I play both, in each case the actual card.
I own one Gaea's Cradle. I play it in exactly one deck. There are very few green decks that wouldn't work better with Cradle, but most can function fine without it, so I don't proxy. I only got the Cradle a few months ago; before that I did without, and didn't proxy. If I ever built a second deck that I felt really needed the Cradle, I wouldn't feel bad about proxying one, but so far I haven't felt the need to do that.
I have a pretty good - and relatively expensive - collection, but I don't own an Abyss or a Mana Drain or a Mana Crypt or any of the Onslaught or Zendikar fetchlands, or any of a number of other good cards, so I build without those cards. I do just fine, and have a good time.
As to what others do, I don't have a say over it, and I'm not going to make an issue about it unless a person is proxying ridiculously expensive stuff they have no intention of ever getting, like Mana Drain, or when they're proxying for pure power. Some kid with limited resources, I wouldn't make an issue if he decided to run a proxy Demonic Tutor, but if someone who has a physical Vampiric Tutor decides to also run a proxy Imperial Seal (a card which I've yet to actually see, btw), as far as I'm concerned, that's just being greedy, and I'd tell him he should stick to playing the perfectly adequate cards he already has.
If that is what you see as fair, then I say more power to you. I, obviously, have no right to tell other people how they should/shouldn't play with their playgroup. However, as someone who has never seen the draw in making up a proxy deck, I would be hard pressed to not find it a bit silly if I sat down to play a game of EDH, and the person across the table pulled out a proxy deck out cards they have no intention to actually own. Again, that's just my personal viewpoint. Of you and your friends have fun playing like that, then by all means go ahead. At the end of the day, I think people forget what the 'G' in 'TCG' stands for - game. And really, if you're not having fun playing a game, then you've done something seriously wrong.
(Unless your idea of 'fun' happens to be 'not having fun', in which case... don't have fun?)
I'm just responding to the edh part specifically here. In terms of me I plan to own every card I proxy, but I'm a freshmen in college and Have a very limited income. Instead of not having fun, since my edh group is pretty competitive, Ive decided to make my decks just the way I want them the be. I don't make them too good most of the time. For example, I decided for my melek deck i wanted a coin flipping subtheme, so I'm proxying krark's thumb, squee's revenge, and chance encounter among others. I'm just trying to have fun not make people feel bad. To me If your offended that's your fault.
They are absolutely necessary if you plan on playing other people who have thousand dollar decks, or are ultra-competitive.
Pro's borrow decks. Pros that I know that write SCG articles about winning high level events don't own the decks they play with. And win checks upwards to $10K.
Do not use proxies around people who do not have a good grasp of magic and sport untuned decks or people who have budget decks. It's simply not fair.
Using proxies around other people who use proxies is just fine. If you use proxies around people who have thousand dollar decks and they complain about it, chances are they suck at life and this is the one place they win. Disregard them and stay away.
Fix'd that for you to show the false dichotomy you've presented.
Jiv supports Wizards with the purchase of his paper cards. He does not buy digital cards on MTGO. He does not play with digital cards on MTGO.
I'll say it again: The existence of MTGO does not mean Magic: the Gathering cannot be played over the internet in other ways.
If this is true, then the existence of paper magic doesn't mean that Magic can't be played over a kitchen table or whatnot in different ways. That, my friend, is what I call logic.
Like someone said before, I think the gradual process of building a deck and having to use worse cards along the way is quite fun, so I don't use proxies for EDH. I used to use them all the time to test Legacy decks but now I just use Cockatrice for that mostly.
I also don't like it when somebody proxies cards that they have no intention of getting and have a unique effect (like Mana Drain). You want to use the most broken counterspell ever printed, go out and buy it please. I saved up for a while to buy my Mana Drain, and I'm sure the thrill of getting to use it wouldn't have been as great if I had been using a proxied version all along.
In these cases however, I'm totally fine with proxies:
1) You own the card already but fear it will be stolen/damaged.
2) Your deck literally can't function properly without the card (i.e. your general is Adun Oakenshield and you built an entire deck around him but just haven't acquired the card yet.). If you're doing this though, I'd probably start to get annoyed if months passed before you actually bought the card.
3) The card is nearly impossible to find/ way overpriced for what it does. An example of this is Imperial Seal. I don't realistically expect anyone to pay $700 for a strictly worse Vampiric Tutor. If you really, really need a Seal in your deck, go ahead and proxy it.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
But if you would refuse to play against a proxied Mana Drain while there's a Mana Drain in your deck, that's shameful.
Why is it shameful? Like I said, I saved up for a while to buy my Mana Drain, why is it "shameful" for me to expect others that wanna use Mana Drain to do the same?
Let's not forget that this is a TCG. There should be some incentive to obtain real copies of powerful cards.
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Current Modern decks BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam UB Reanimator
we only allow proxies if you actually own the card, I mean sometimes you don't feel like buying 2 copies of a card for 2 different decks (or unsleeven a card so you can put it in a different deck) although is kinda frowned upon
we only allow proxies if you actually own the card, I mean sometimes you don't feel like buying 2 copies of a card for 2 different decks (or unsleeven a card so you can put it in a different deck) although is kinda frowned upon
This is my opinion.... If you actually own the card then its fine... if you have order the card online and it hasn't arrived yet... that is also fine.
I have a wurmcoil engine and a mindslaver.. but the 60 card deck they are in is just so damn fun to play that I don't want to take it apart...even if I play my EDH Deck more often. I also have one of my decks sleeved in the same sleeves as my EDH deck so I can switch the cards over... but I have just stopped playing it because I am to lazy to switch and that is kind of sad to some extent because I enjoyed that deck as well, I am considering re building it as a modern deck rather than as the ex standard one it is atm.
I don't want everyone to always have access to the most powerful card whenever they want by printing a copy of it.. that's rediclous.... collecting is half the point of the game, the trading and the opening of packs. the limitations breeds creativity. I like that part of the game.
Why is it shameful? Like I said, I saved up for a while to buy my Mana Drain, why is it "shameful" for me to expect others that wanna use Mana Drain to do the same?
It's shameful because you're willing to pay that much for an edge. And if someone were to ask for a one card handicap to level the playing field, you would deny them that.
You wouldn't argue that Mana Drain isn't a significant advantage. When you draw it, it's huge. So if someone asks to use a printout proxy against you and you say no, this is an attempt to buy wins in a strategy game. If you have a problem with the proxy but want to win the game on your own merits as a player and deckbuilder, the sportsmanlike thing to do is side out Mana Drain to make it even.
That's if they ask to use one. If I were playing you, I wouldn't proxy Mana Drain unless I'm preparing for a 1v1 event, and I wouldn't care about the disadvantage.
Let's not forget that this is a TCG. There should be some incentive to obtain real copies of powerful cards.
Tournaments are incentive enough.
For most players the incentive of using Mana Drain in a casual game shouldn't outweigh their other financial priorities.
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Clearly my not playing MTGO is the equivalent of me not supporting magic and not you misrepresenting my statements because you disagree with me. You really have an obsession with this point and yet you're wrong about it.
Indeed. I believe most EDH players don't support the game they claim to enjoy.
How 'bout counterfeit cards ?
Is a counterfeit card a friend has owned for 3 or more years that you earnestly believe he thought was real (partially because he paid it's real cash price from what he thought was a reputable dealer) that went undetected for a couple dozen months sleeved up in a deck that wasn't detected as counterfeit until he took it out of the deck to trade - the same as a card with a post-it of "MOAT" on it ?
We didn't think it was the same thing. We let him keep the Moat in his deck as long as long as he wouldn't trade it or sell it. I'm inclined to say that you would think otherwise.
I've addressed this already: The existence of the secondary market does support Wizards. Purchasing secondary cards preserves their value. That value is what allows Wizards to be profitable by selling new packs.
Only one problem: Not even the Hasbro Lawyers think it's infringement. Otherwise they'd have gone after MWS and Cockatrice for it.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
I would personally never give someone a hard time who thought they legitimately bought a legal version of the card and got ripped off. To me thats as good as the real thing as far as a casual format is concerned.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
Most proxies are just poorly made counterfeits. If a friend payed full price for a card he thought was real I'd have a hard time saying he couldn't use it. But that's me being a person and not a legality machine. As for myself? If I bought a counterfeit I wouldn't use it because at the end of the day, it's not a card.
The fact that they didn't - or, rather, have yet to - go after MWS is irrelevant. They didn't go after Cockatrice at the same time they shut down that drafting site however many years ago either. The fact that they're not going after everyone at once is meaningless.
I'd be surprised if they did copyright a couple of sentences which is what a card boils down to. Though it's probably possible with the ridiculous copyright laws out there.
I'm with you on this one. The guy got ripped off.
But realize this: two wrongs don't make it right. If I bought a $50 gift card to McDonalds that was actually counterfeit, McDonalds isn't going to say "Well, we're sorry you got ripped off, here's $50."
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Again, you are ignorant of what they did go after Brukie for. It was improper use of the Gatherer service, not copyright infringement. Violation of Terms of Service Agreement.
EDIT: Crap, I ended a sentence with a proposition and I have no idea how to reword it to be correct.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Why not use proxies to play in formats you can't play due to pocketbook restrictions. I love legacy. My friends love Legacy. If we live in a world where proxies are not ok then I can't play legacy. If someone is testing for a legacy tournament and I pull out my proxied BUG deck, if they say oh I won't play you because you use proxies I would be flabbergasted. Proxies are fine as long you are not playing for anything. In casual, testing, edh, or whatever proxies are just fine. As long as your not the guy with a blank card and you just say what it is when you play it. At least get a sharpie.
So in EDH you would be fine with all Proxies all the time?
I mean why use real cards at all? It is a casual format in which you are almost never playing for anything (well anything material that is).
Of course that highlights the differences between using proxies casually and competitively. Using them to test for a tournament is not the same as using them in casual play.
If that is what you see as fair, then I say more power to you. I, obviously, have no right to tell other people how they should/shouldn't play with their playgroup. However, as someone who has never seen the draw in making up a proxy deck, I would be hard pressed to not find it a bit silly if I sat down to play a game of EDH, and the person across the table pulled out a proxy deck out cards they have no intention to actually own. Again, that's just my personal viewpoint. Of you and your friends have fun playing like that, then by all means go ahead. At the end of the day, I think people forget what the 'G' in 'TCG' stands for - game. And really, if you're not having fun playing a game, then you've done something seriously wrong.
(Unless your idea of 'fun' happens to be 'not having fun', in which case... don't have fun?)
I prefer to play with cards from WotC because they're tournament legal and more aesthetic than most alternatives, but that's just me. I also think that scarcity encourages resourcefulness and creativity, and that playgroups where everyone is playing within limited means are more interesting than playgroups tending towards optimization.
Ideally, everyone can play at a similar power level, and the only edge to be gained is a strategic one, but sometimes the budgetary gap between players is too great. If a player is using mostly cheap cards and losing to powerhouses like Nether Void and Gaea's Cradle, you should be happy to give that player the handicap of using proxies because the games will be more enjoyable that way. Even better, you could build down to their level.
But if you would refuse to play against a proxied Mana Drain while there's a Mana Drain in your deck, that's shameful.
I like this
I own playsets of the original dual lands. I am currently running 20 decks, and many of them are 2 or 3 colored. I have sometimes proxied a Tundra (for example), but as I pick up more shocklands, I'm just using a Hallowed Fountain instead of Tundra - and in some decks I play both, in each case the actual card.
I own one Gaea's Cradle. I play it in exactly one deck. There are very few green decks that wouldn't work better with Cradle, but most can function fine without it, so I don't proxy. I only got the Cradle a few months ago; before that I did without, and didn't proxy. If I ever built a second deck that I felt really needed the Cradle, I wouldn't feel bad about proxying one, but so far I haven't felt the need to do that.
I have a pretty good - and relatively expensive - collection, but I don't own an Abyss or a Mana Drain or a Mana Crypt or any of the Onslaught or Zendikar fetchlands, or any of a number of other good cards, so I build without those cards. I do just fine, and have a good time.
As to what others do, I don't have a say over it, and I'm not going to make an issue about it unless a person is proxying ridiculously expensive stuff they have no intention of ever getting, like Mana Drain, or when they're proxying for pure power. Some kid with limited resources, I wouldn't make an issue if he decided to run a proxy Demonic Tutor, but if someone who has a physical Vampiric Tutor decides to also run a proxy Imperial Seal (a card which I've yet to actually see, btw), as far as I'm concerned, that's just being greedy, and I'd tell him he should stick to playing the perfectly adequate cards he already has.
I'm just responding to the edh part specifically here. In terms of me I plan to own every card I proxy, but I'm a freshmen in college and Have a very limited income. Instead of not having fun, since my edh group is pretty competitive, Ive decided to make my decks just the way I want them the be. I don't make them too good most of the time. For example, I decided for my melek deck i wanted a coin flipping subtheme, so I'm proxying krark's thumb, squee's revenge, and chance encounter among others. I'm just trying to have fun not make people feel bad. To me If your offended that's your fault.
Pro's borrow decks. Pros that I know that write SCG articles about winning high level events don't own the decks they play with. And win checks upwards to $10K.
Do not use proxies around people who do not have a good grasp of magic and sport untuned decks or people who have budget decks. It's simply not fair.
Using proxies around other people who use proxies is just fine. If you use proxies around people who have thousand dollar decks and they complain about it, chances are they suck at life and this is the one place they win. Disregard them and stay away.
If this is true, then the existence of paper magic doesn't mean that Magic can't be played over a kitchen table or whatnot in different ways. That, my friend, is what I call logic.
I also don't like it when somebody proxies cards that they have no intention of getting and have a unique effect (like Mana Drain). You want to use the most broken counterspell ever printed, go out and buy it please. I saved up for a while to buy my Mana Drain, and I'm sure the thrill of getting to use it wouldn't have been as great if I had been using a proxied version all along.
In these cases however, I'm totally fine with proxies:
1) You own the card already but fear it will be stolen/damaged.
2) Your deck literally can't function properly without the card (i.e. your general is Adun Oakenshield and you built an entire deck around him but just haven't acquired the card yet.). If you're doing this though, I'd probably start to get annoyed if months passed before you actually bought the card.
3) The card is nearly impossible to find/ way overpriced for what it does. An example of this is Imperial Seal. I don't realistically expect anyone to pay $700 for a strictly worse Vampiric Tutor. If you really, really need a Seal in your deck, go ahead and proxy it.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
Why is it shameful? Like I said, I saved up for a while to buy my Mana Drain, why is it "shameful" for me to expect others that wanna use Mana Drain to do the same?
Let's not forget that this is a TCG. There should be some incentive to obtain real copies of powerful cards.
BGW Junk / URB Grixis Shadow / RGB Lantern Control / WUBCBant Eldrazi
Current Legacy decks
BUG Shardless BUG / UWR Predict Miracles / RUG Canadian Thresh / WRBG 4c Loam
UB Reanimator
This is my opinion.... If you actually own the card then its fine... if you have order the card online and it hasn't arrived yet... that is also fine.
I have a wurmcoil engine and a mindslaver.. but the 60 card deck they are in is just so damn fun to play that I don't want to take it apart...even if I play my EDH Deck more often. I also have one of my decks sleeved in the same sleeves as my EDH deck so I can switch the cards over... but I have just stopped playing it because I am to lazy to switch and that is kind of sad to some extent because I enjoyed that deck as well, I am considering re building it as a modern deck rather than as the ex standard one it is atm.
I don't want everyone to always have access to the most powerful card whenever they want by printing a copy of it.. that's rediclous.... collecting is half the point of the game, the trading and the opening of packs. the limitations breeds creativity. I like that part of the game.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
You wouldn't argue that Mana Drain isn't a significant advantage. When you draw it, it's huge. So if someone asks to use a printout proxy against you and you say no, this is an attempt to buy wins in a strategy game. If you have a problem with the proxy but want to win the game on your own merits as a player and deckbuilder, the sportsmanlike thing to do is side out Mana Drain to make it even.
That's if they ask to use one. If I were playing you, I wouldn't proxy Mana Drain unless I'm preparing for a 1v1 event, and I wouldn't care about the disadvantage.
Tournaments are incentive enough.
For most players the incentive of using Mana Drain in a casual game shouldn't outweigh their other financial priorities.