...Active player (attacker) Jitte trigger goes on the stack.
Non-active player (defender) Jitte trigger goes on the stack.
Priority Pass
Non-active player (defender) Jitte trigger resolves.
Priority Pass (Non-active player (defender) has an opportunity to use Jitte counters.)
Active player (attacker) Jitte trigger resolves.
Priority Pass
You got it.
Fwiw, I went 2-3-1 drop at Minneapolis SCG. I would have gladly had 4x Sunlance in my sideboard today:
Rd 1: Mirror match. Ok, not so much here.
Rd 2: RUG Delver. Ok, Nimble Mongoose not so much. But Delvers, yes.
Rd 3: Delverblade. Delvers and Grim Lavamancers. Want Sunlance.
Rd 4: Green/Blue Infect. Sunlance.
Rd 5: Goblins. Sunlance.
Rd 6: Punishing Fire Jund. Scavenging Ooze, Bloodbraid Elf, Deathrite Shaman, Dark Confidant.
Paladin en-Vec was a house as a one-of. Would have liked to have had two, but there's no room. Rest in Peace was a house. Aven Mindcensor ate more Force of Wills and instant-speed damage than anything else.
Did not see much of the Storm I had anticipated. It was mostly "fair" decks.
Went 6-3 today in SCG Mpls. Finished 52nd place. Started 5-1 then flared out :(.
Played Enevoldsen's main from the GP and a tutor board with no Wilt Leafs.
1. Loss to RUG Delver 1-2 bad beat and very close
2. Win vs Dark Maverick 2-1
3. Win vs mirror 2-0 (new player to the deck)
4. Win vs RUG Delver 2-0
5. Win vs Dredge w Grindstone/Servant 2-1
6. Win vs OmniTell 2-1 go figure
7. Loss to Junk GWB 1-2 (Mana flood for 2 games)
8. Loss to Shardless BUG 1-2 (mana flood game 3)
9. Win vs Post 2-0
The winner's deck is interesting. It's Goblin and Taxes, Thalia in the Main and a pretty familiar Sideboard. I wonder when we will see Merfolk and Taxes?
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Legacy
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
That style of goblin is actually old my friend has been playing it for almost a year now I believe.
And why doesn't anyone run Lenon arbiter over Aven mindcensor?
We'be discussed this a thousand times, but the reasoning always boils down to this:
We want stoneforge to work, with no catches.
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Modern: Modern is Bad
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
We'be discussed this a thousand times, but the reasoning always boils down to this:
We want stoneforge to work, with no catches.
Plus, I think the flying is very relevant, especially now that Serra Avenger is in the bin. Kills an attacking Delver unless they can throw an Instant at it.
Anecdote: I played a Jitte Turn 2 with no creatures out. Played a third land on Turn 3, and then put on my best frustrated face, hesitated and said, "Go" like, "Ok, have your way with me." Then the opponent naturally attacks in and I trade with my flashed in Mindcensor. I had gas in hand so I took the game from there.
I ran three Aven Mindcensor yesterday, and I was always pleased to see one in my hand.
Wow. Thanks for some important information, fellas. We seem to have some stuff to talk about now. If I can I would like to [re]start the conversation on Flagstones of Trokair based upon this interesting observation by mrjumbo03:
I didn't drop plains all game and stranded his Massacre in hand with my army of hatebears.
As usual I want to be ahead of the hate. With increased popularity comes increased presence of hate in sideboards. Based upon what you all gave us for the best hate coming in against us, I see Massacre as a popular choice going forward. I am starting to lean on the possibility of actually running a few Flagstones specifically to be able to function without Plains.
Lemme ask something because I honestly don't know. "How often would an extra two lands in the graveyard be a hassle against Deathrite Shaman?" We all know that if left unchecked, these little pukes will beat you. But what about the effects of two Flagstones being in your yard when they don't have to be? Is it worth it for the ability to dodge Massacre?
Also, the topic that Amoebasinger brought up is clearly an important one.
Quote from medea »
Combat damage is dealt simultaneously and does not use the stack.
Triggers go on the stack in APNP order for triggers with separate controllers.
For triggers with the same controller, that player chooses the order they are placed on the stack.
Active player (attacker) Jitte trigger goes on the stack.
Non-active player (defender) Jitte trigger goes on the stack.
Priority Pass
Non-active player (defender) Jitte trigger resolves.
Priority Pass (Non-active player (defender) has an opportunity to use Jitte counters.)
Active player (attacker) Jitte trigger resolves.
Priority Pass
I am interested in how we can turn this knowledge to our advantage. Amoebasinger certainly gave us a start when he said
...the blocking player gets Jitte counters first, and can kill the attacker's creatures before they have an opportunity to boost themselves.
So, is there a way we can arrange our game plan to see to it that this sort of thing happens in our favor? I am thinking first strike, double strike, and protection from a color are all going to help us out in Jitte wars (and a big reason why I like our position under the new rules), but not in the mirror naturally. What can we do here?
I've been reading a bit of the rules and it looks like all you might be able to do to keep your own Jitte counters is remove your own creature from combat before blockers are declared....
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"You can't stop the signal, Mel." - Mr. Universe
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
The winner's deck is interesting. It's Goblin and Taxes, Thalia in the Main and a pretty familiar Sideboard. I wonder when we will see Merfolk and Taxes?
My White Weenie D&T has been stomping playtesting the last two weeks ;). It doesn't have the inevitability as D&T so perhaps the list/theorycrafting should be discussed elsewhere. But I do know, Thalia, Ethersworn, Leonin Arbiter and Ghost Quarter are more powerful right now than they have ever been. With a more aggro approach, you don't have to lean on SFM as much either and thus it isn't a big deal to pay 4cc or 2cc + Vial with Arbiter in play.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
I scrubbed out pretty hard at the SCG Minneapolis. I played against punishing shardless, 2x shardless, lands, and uwg standstill.
Is shardless a bad matchup? I went 1-5-1 (3 rounds) in games against shardless. The punishing shardless games weren't even close. I know I made a play mistake in one loss, a sideboarding mistake in another, and then just played slow or that draw might have been a win. It seems winnable until they cast ancestral visions. So maybe I could have been 3-4 had I played tight.
Punishing lands preboard was pretty rough, I almost won due to him not getting green mana for a few turns but once he cast loam it was over. If I had conceded a little earlier to him game 1 I might not have drawn in game 3.
I think UWG landstill was the match I should have won but lost. I took game one almost exclusively from Thalia and denying him mana. I lost game two when he landed jace then supreme verdict allowed him the use of jace and vedalken shackles after I shut down both with revokers. Game 3 I was stuck on 1 plains until he eventually killed me.
I definitely think the thing that hurt me most was not knowing what to side. Naming the wrong cards with revoker/needle cost me up to two games, one ended in a draw.
My White Weenie D&T has been stomping playtesting the last two weeks ;). It doesn't have the inevitability as D&T so perhaps the list/theorycrafting should be discussed elsewhere.
If you have a list that is crushing, it's definitely worth our time to see why it is well-positioned, even if it deviates from the norm.
I scrubbed out pretty hard at the SCG Minneapolis. I played against punishing shardless, 2x shardless, lands, and uwg standstill.
Is shardless a bad matchup? I went 1-5-1 (3 rounds) in games against shardless. The punishing shardless games weren't even close. I know I made a play mistake in one loss, a sideboarding mistake in another, and then just played slow or that draw might have been a win. It seems winnable until they cast ancestral visions. So maybe I could have been 3-4 had I played tight.
I have won all of my sets against shardless, but my list runs the 4th Crusader, which is a major pain for them to deal with. This is a match up you should start getting used to, as it is everywhere right now. I think you'll probably be better off next time around, as the sideboard/revoker mistakes you made probably directly or indirectly resulted in a loss or two.
Admittedly, the match up may get a little harder in the future, as they are starting to run more maindeck Baleful Strix, which is a royal pain for all of our regular dudes.
Punishing Shardless sounds like the greediest deck ever, so try to punish their mana and ride that to victory. Your RiPs should be coming in for this match up anyway, so that should help a bit for games 2 and 3 against punishing fire.
As far as Massacre is concerned, I think the increased presence of D&T combined with the newcomer UWR Delver/Geist will cause many more decks to toss one or two of these in the sideboard. Truth be told, it's also pretty sweet against Deathblade...
Shardless RUG isn't all that greedy. The greediest thing they do is run Waste themselves. It's not a good matchup, but they are weak to Stoneforge. They have enough Burn to hold off a Jitte from gaining counters, but they have a hard time with Batterskull. If you can land a T2 SFM or T3 with Vial, you are in good shape.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
If you have a list that is crushing, it's definitely worth our time to see why it is well-positioned, even if it deviates from the norm.
I have two iterations both essentially taking out Mangara-Karakas and inserting Arbiter-Ghost Quarter. The first (with 1/2/3-drops) did well in playtesting and opened my eyes the awesomeness of Port + Wasteland + Ghost Quarter (w/ or w/o Arbiter). The second (with only 1/2-drops) did even better against my playtest gauntlet and might be what I run @ the upcoming SC Cincy. Here's my current "white weenie" list... basically a 1-2cc beaters with taxes that wins with whatever creature you have left over (from "Legacy attrition") + equipment while taxing. It's nice because it doesn't lean on Vials and I've mulliganed much, much less because nearly every starting 7 will be packed with "taxes" while also putting down good pressure. Finally going up to x4 Judge's Familiar with the extra equipment has been awesome. And the Avengers are no problem on 10 sources of white mana being you have plenty of great drops in the first three turns or you hit one of the almost always live x2 Vials or tax with Port. *Arbiters + SFM function similarly - IF you do find yourself dropping Arbiter first, there's creatures to drop while you curve to 4mana for a SFM.
It's -1 lands (x22) from most lists but you could probably go down to x21 if you are inclined - I've been cracking Ghost Quarters so much even against basic-land decks that x22 lands seems safer.
SB is very flexible too with additional Cannonist/Militants/Revokers coming in for additional +equipment pressure while hosing said deck. Quite often I have taken out one of the Jittes (sometimes 2) but so far I'm liking x2 for game 1 with the plethora of top-deck cheap creatures.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
Hey ActionJunkie, thanks for the list...brings me back to the old days of playing WW with Empyrial Armor due to the swarm of low cost creatures. Will be fun mulling your list over some.
In the meantime, we need a BUG Control/Shardless BUG matchup section. I know it's listed as favorable, but I'm 2-2-2 vs the deck in SCG play since last fall :(. They all seem to be playing Golgari Charm and Baleful Strix. In testing, I usually assume additional discard does not come in. In the SCGs however, they are adding to their discard when I play them. Sure, Mirran Crusader is a house vs them, and the mana denial plan works wonders, but they seem to always have tons of mana due to Ancestral Vision. Yesterday at SCG Mpls, I put Aven Mindcensor out in 5 of my matches only to have it Dazed (2 matches vs RUG Delver) or the card they were searching for be in the top 4. It especially hurt to see that vs Junk and BUG. It was very lackluster all day for me. I'm thinking of going back to Avengers in the main.
I considered Wilt-Leaf Liege again, but in testing vs BUG, I found the new legend rules made it less powerful: Liliana to discard...choose Liege and put it into play...then they cast another Liliana right after and lose the old Liliana then -2 her to sacrifice a creature: my Liege being the only creature on the board due to charms, decay, and discard.
For what it's worth, here was my sideboard for SCG Minneapolis (I was pretty happy with it and used everything except the COP and MBTs:
Why not just use lotus petal? sure it is just one shot but it is less likely for a 2-for-1
I don't know that this is the thread for discussing developing the archetype. It seems sort of like a mash-up/modernization of Angel Stompy mixed with Death and Taxes, but I could see Mox Diamond being good with the 8 Wasteland effects if one chose to incorporate Crucible of Worlds. Crucible also works well with Horizon Canopy. That said I would suggest a different thread if we want to pursue discussing this avenue, as we're moving pretty far from established lists if discussing Leonin Arbiter, Moxen and 26 land rather than Aether Vials and 22-24.
I personally like the shell and have tried a few different variants, I would be happy to discuss the ideas. I just think here is going to be confusing.
You guys are remaking the Modern D+T deck there. ^
***************************************|*********
Quote from Heagyth »
I considered Wilt-Leaf Liege again, but in testing vs BUG, I found the new legend rules made it less powerful: Liliana to discard...choose Liege and put it into play...then they cast another Liliana right after and lose the old Liliana then -2 her to sacrifice a creature: my Liege being the only creature on the board due to charms, decay, and discard.
You can't blame the liege on this one. The guy spent four mana, three cards and two life to get rid of it. If he has those kinds of resources to spare with you having an empty board you were already beaten by this point. Ancestral Vision is the killer - you had it right the first time. We should talk about beating that card, but Liege is a strong contender for this job.
702.84a Cascade is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with cascade is on the stack. Cascade means "When you cast this spell, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card whose converted mana cost is less than this spell‘s converted mana cost. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all cards exiled this way that weren‘t cast on the bottom of your library in a random order.
Cascade spells still have a cmc, you are just able to cast the spell without paying its mana cost Chalice on zero only stops Ancestral Visions.
Count me as in favor of this idea. I am betting that the miser's singleton is the way to go. It also comes in against Elves; so says Amoebasinger. The question I have to pose here is:
"Is this a better use of a sideboard slot than, say Wilt-leaf Liege?
Medea, I don't quite know what you are saying, but this works for Visions. EDIT: Oh, I see. He said "All cascade spells". Right. Only Visions.
Count me as in favor of this idea. I am betting that the miser's singleton is the way to go. It also comes in against Elves; so says Amoebasinger. The question I have to pose here is:
"Is this a better use of a sideboard slot than, say Wilt-leaf Liege?
Medea, I don't quite know what you are saying, but this works for Visions. EDIT: Oh, I see. He said "All cascade spells". Right. Only Visions.
Mmm. I'm not too wild about it. I hate running a one-of to solve their three-of, and it doesn't even attack stuff.
But I'll admit it's a somewhat close call. I'd question whether you'd not rather have extra removal for Dark Confidant (is Bob in the deck?), which might not get them three x card advantage, but does swing and kill you too.
On a different, yet same note, I am almost sort of thinking about running something that gives my animals +1/+1 in the main. It strikes me that, especially with Mirran Crusader replacing Serra Avenger, one more point of damage per creature per combat would be really huge for tempo right now, and really huge for defending the small creature hordes that are around. Maybe one Honor of the Pure main? Am I cray-cray?
I've sideboarded Chalice for months now and while its not as powerful as mindbreak trap its relevant in so many different matchups. Our deck can play around it. Many decks cannot. And we have Flickerwisp to reset it if we really need to.
Quite honestly, I even sideboard it in vs. control as if you can control their brainstorms/STPs tops you have the game half won.
I've sideboarded Chalice for months now and while its not as powerful as mindbreak trap its relevant in so many different matchups. Our deck can play around it. Many decks cannot. And we have Flickerwisp to reset it if we really need to.
Quite honestly, I even sideboard it in vs. control as if you can control their brainstorms/STPs tops you have the game half won.
Wynk, you and I are the only ones that know the power of the Chalice with this deck. Every month or so you and I praise the card.
Not only can you plop it down for zero like someone just mentioned (add in the 2 Canonist SB and combo is 99.9% screwed), but setting it at one is deadly to SO many decks. I SB'd Chalice in all my Goblins decks for the same reason. If you ever go T1 Vial, T2 Chalice @ 1, you're going to win.
You can even try to keep mom in and use the Caverns to get around it.
i'm not saying you shouldnt use chalice here. i agree that it is good v a lot of decks other than just combo which is good, however there is a problem with useing it in this deck that a deck like goblins doesnt have. First to effectively use it against decks other than storm you absolutely need vial out turn one. Goblins doesnt have two drops necessary to the curve to win and it doesnt use one mana removal spells. Death and taxes usually want to have aether vial out and if it doesnt it needs to play a creature turn two to start disrupting or advancing. Getting behind on board isnt an option. Goblins can play chalice turn two because it can still then survive long enough and kill goyf afterwards. If D&T plays chalice turn two vs rug then you need them not to bolt your follow up crusader or we basically lose to our own chalice stopping swords. If you hold off till turn 3 or 4 then youve half defeated the purpose. You then need to be ahead on board for it to be effective, and if you are ahead then its often just a win more card as our long game is better than theirs.
Its useful vs elves but if their smart they will have a main deck viridian shaman so were just slowing them down a bit.
The point is that if you want chalice vs storm then thats fine but if you want it because its not the best vs storm but is still useful vs other decks then id say that its usefulness vs other decks isnt strong enough to give this argument credence.
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__________________
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
Legacy:
Goblins (21-8-4)
Death&Taxes
--refusing to casting Force of Will since 2010--
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You got it.
Fwiw, I went 2-3-1 drop at Minneapolis SCG. I would have gladly had 4x Sunlance in my sideboard today:
Rd 1: Mirror match. Ok, not so much here.
Rd 2: RUG Delver. Ok, Nimble Mongoose not so much. But Delvers, yes.
Rd 3: Delverblade. Delvers and Grim Lavamancers. Want Sunlance.
Rd 4: Green/Blue Infect. Sunlance.
Rd 5: Goblins. Sunlance.
Rd 6: Punishing Fire Jund. Scavenging Ooze, Bloodbraid Elf, Deathrite Shaman, Dark Confidant.
Paladin en-Vec was a house as a one-of. Would have liked to have had two, but there's no room. Rest in Peace was a house. Aven Mindcensor ate more Force of Wills and instant-speed damage than anything else.
Did not see much of the Storm I had anticipated. It was mostly "fair" decks.
J
Played Enevoldsen's main from the GP and a tutor board with no Wilt Leafs.
1. Loss to RUG Delver 1-2 bad beat and very close
2. Win vs Dark Maverick 2-1
3. Win vs mirror 2-0 (new player to the deck)
4. Win vs RUG Delver 2-0
5. Win vs Dredge w Grindstone/Servant 2-1
6. Win vs OmniTell 2-1 go figure
7. Loss to Junk GWB 1-2 (Mana flood for 2 games)
8. Loss to Shardless BUG 1-2 (mana flood game 3)
9. Win vs Post 2-0
Will post more details later.
Death and Taxes
UG Infect
Strawberry Shortcake Imperial Painter
EDH
Angus Mackenzie - Enduring Enchantments
Adun Oakenshield - Jund F'ing Good Stuff, "Money Vault"
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails - Captain Crunch
And why doesn't anyone run Lenon arbiter over Aven mindcensor?
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
We'be discussed this a thousand times, but the reasoning always boils down to this:
We want stoneforge to work, with no catches.
Legacy:WDeath and TaxesW W45-L16-D11 8 Top 8s 15th Scg Oakland
Current Kiln Fiend Count: 153 Please message me if you want to trade me or give me some.
Commission Rezombied to alter some cards, he's awesome!
Plus, I think the flying is very relevant, especially now that Serra Avenger is in the bin. Kills an attacking Delver unless they can throw an Instant at it.
Anecdote: I played a Jitte Turn 2 with no creatures out. Played a third land on Turn 3, and then put on my best frustrated face, hesitated and said, "Go" like, "Ok, have your way with me." Then the opponent naturally attacks in and I trade with my flashed in Mindcensor. I had gas in hand so I took the game from there.
I ran three Aven Mindcensor yesterday, and I was always pleased to see one in my hand.
J
As usual I want to be ahead of the hate. With increased popularity comes increased presence of hate in sideboards. Based upon what you all gave us for the best hate coming in against us, I see Massacre as a popular choice going forward. I am starting to lean on the possibility of actually running a few Flagstones specifically to be able to function without Plains.
Lemme ask something because I honestly don't know. "How often would an extra two lands in the graveyard be a hassle against Deathrite Shaman?" We all know that if left unchecked, these little pukes will beat you. But what about the effects of two Flagstones being in your yard when they don't have to be? Is it worth it for the ability to dodge Massacre?
Also, the topic that Amoebasinger brought up is clearly an important one.
I am interested in how we can turn this knowledge to our advantage. Amoebasinger certainly gave us a start when he said So, is there a way we can arrange our game plan to see to it that this sort of thing happens in our favor? I am thinking first strike, double strike, and protection from a color are all going to help us out in Jitte wars (and a big reason why I like our position under the new rules), but not in the mirror naturally. What can we do here?
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
My White Weenie D&T has been stomping playtesting the last two weeks ;). It doesn't have the inevitability as D&T so perhaps the list/theorycrafting should be discussed elsewhere. But I do know, Thalia, Ethersworn, Leonin Arbiter and Ghost Quarter are more powerful right now than they have ever been. With a more aggro approach, you don't have to lean on SFM as much either and thus it isn't a big deal to pay 4cc or 2cc + Vial with Arbiter in play.
Is shardless a bad matchup? I went 1-5-1 (3 rounds) in games against shardless. The punishing shardless games weren't even close. I know I made a play mistake in one loss, a sideboarding mistake in another, and then just played slow or that draw might have been a win. It seems winnable until they cast ancestral visions. So maybe I could have been 3-4 had I played tight.
Punishing lands preboard was pretty rough, I almost won due to him not getting green mana for a few turns but once he cast loam it was over. If I had conceded a little earlier to him game 1 I might not have drawn in game 3.
I think UWG landstill was the match I should have won but lost. I took game one almost exclusively from Thalia and denying him mana. I lost game two when he landed jace then supreme verdict allowed him the use of jace and vedalken shackles after I shut down both with revokers. Game 3 I was stuck on 1 plains until he eventually killed me.
I definitely think the thing that hurt me most was not knowing what to side. Naming the wrong cards with revoker/needle cost me up to two games, one ended in a draw.
If you have a list that is crushing, it's definitely worth our time to see why it is well-positioned, even if it deviates from the norm.
I have won all of my sets against shardless, but my list runs the 4th Crusader, which is a major pain for them to deal with. This is a match up you should start getting used to, as it is everywhere right now. I think you'll probably be better off next time around, as the sideboard/revoker mistakes you made probably directly or indirectly resulted in a loss or two.
Admittedly, the match up may get a little harder in the future, as they are starting to run more maindeck Baleful Strix, which is a royal pain for all of our regular dudes.
Punishing Shardless sounds like the greediest deck ever, so try to punish their mana and ride that to victory. Your RiPs should be coming in for this match up anyway, so that should help a bit for games 2 and 3 against punishing fire.
As far as Massacre is concerned, I think the increased presence of D&T combined with the newcomer UWR Delver/Geist will cause many more decks to toss one or two of these in the sideboard. Truth be told, it's also pretty sweet against Deathblade...
I have two iterations both essentially taking out Mangara-Karakas and inserting Arbiter-Ghost Quarter. The first (with 1/2/3-drops) did well in playtesting and opened my eyes the awesomeness of Port + Wasteland + Ghost Quarter (w/ or w/o Arbiter). The second (with only 1/2-drops) did even better against my playtest gauntlet and might be what I run @ the upcoming SC Cincy. Here's my current "white weenie" list... basically a 1-2cc beaters with taxes that wins with whatever creature you have left over (from "Legacy attrition") + equipment while taxing. It's nice because it doesn't lean on Vials and I've mulliganed much, much less because nearly every starting 7 will be packed with "taxes" while also putting down good pressure. Finally going up to x4 Judge's Familiar with the extra equipment has been awesome. And the Avengers are no problem on 10 sources of white mana being you have plenty of great drops in the first three turns or you hit one of the almost always live x2 Vials or tax with Port. *Arbiters + SFM function similarly - IF you do find yourself dropping Arbiter first, there's creatures to drop while you curve to 4mana for a SFM.
It's -1 lands (x22) from most lists but you could probably go down to x21 if you are inclined - I've been cracking Ghost Quarters so much even against basic-land decks that x22 lands seems safer.
x4 W Mother of Runes
x4 W Judge's Familiar
x2 W Dryad Millitant
x4 1W Thalia
x4 1W SFM
x4 1W Leonin Arbiter
x4 WW Serra Avenger
x1 1W Ethersworn Canonist
x2 1 Aether Vial
x4 W STP
x2 Jitte
x1 Sword of Fire and Ice
x1 Sword of Light and Shadow
x1 Batterskull
x4 Port
x4 Wasteland
x4 Ghost Quarter
x1 Karakas
x9 Plains
SB is very flexible too with additional Cannonist/Militants/Revokers coming in for additional +equipment pressure while hosing said deck. Quite often I have taken out one of the Jittes (sometimes 2) but so far I'm liking x2 for game 1 with the plethora of top-deck cheap creatures.
In the meantime, we need a BUG Control/Shardless BUG matchup section. I know it's listed as favorable, but I'm 2-2-2 vs the deck in SCG play since last fall :(. They all seem to be playing Golgari Charm and Baleful Strix. In testing, I usually assume additional discard does not come in. In the SCGs however, they are adding to their discard when I play them. Sure, Mirran Crusader is a house vs them, and the mana denial plan works wonders, but they seem to always have tons of mana due to Ancestral Vision. Yesterday at SCG Mpls, I put Aven Mindcensor out in 5 of my matches only to have it Dazed (2 matches vs RUG Delver) or the card they were searching for be in the top 4. It especially hurt to see that vs Junk and BUG. It was very lackluster all day for me. I'm thinking of going back to Avengers in the main.
I considered Wilt-Leaf Liege again, but in testing vs BUG, I found the new legend rules made it less powerful: Liliana to discard...choose Liege and put it into play...then they cast another Liliana right after and lose the old Liliana then -2 her to sacrifice a creature: my Liege being the only creature on the board due to charms, decay, and discard.
For what it's worth, here was my sideboard for SCG Minneapolis (I was pretty happy with it and used everything except the COP and MBTs:
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Circle of Protection:Red
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Sunlance
1 Leonin, Relic Warder
Jungian...want to do another meet/greet vs BUG ;)?
Why not just use lotus petal? sure it is just one shot but it is less likely for a 2-for-1
Thanx to Bookworm10 for the Sig.
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Cockatrice: shadowkill
Rules Adviser
I don't know that this is the thread for discussing developing the archetype. It seems sort of like a mash-up/modernization of Angel Stompy mixed with Death and Taxes, but I could see Mox Diamond being good with the 8 Wasteland effects if one chose to incorporate Crucible of Worlds. Crucible also works well with Horizon Canopy. That said I would suggest a different thread if we want to pursue discussing this avenue, as we're moving pretty far from established lists if discussing Leonin Arbiter, Moxen and 26 land rather than Aether Vials and 22-24.
I personally like the shell and have tried a few different variants, I would be happy to discuss the ideas. I just think here is going to be confusing.
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You can't blame the liege on this one. The guy spent four mana, three cards and two life to get rid of it. If he has those kinds of resources to spare with you having an empty board you were already beaten by this point. Ancestral Vision is the killer - you had it right the first time. We should talk about beating that card, but Liege is a strong contender for this job.
If wizards would print a green, black and white version of Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast Painter could be done in every color.
RRImperial PainterRR
UUUUMonoOmniTellUUUU
BGURWDredgeWRUGB
702.84a Cascade is a triggered ability that functions only while the spell with cascade is on the stack. Cascade means "When you cast this spell, exile cards from the top of your library until you exile a nonland card whose converted mana cost is less than this spell‘s converted mana cost. You may cast that card without paying its mana cost. Then put all cards exiled this way that weren‘t cast on the bottom of your library in a random order.
Cascade spells still have a cmc, you are just able to cast the spell without paying its mana cost Chalice on zero only stops Ancestral Visions.
Count me as in favor of this idea. I am betting that the miser's singleton is the way to go. It also comes in against Elves; so says Amoebasinger. The question I have to pose here is:
"Is this a better use of a sideboard slot than, say Wilt-leaf Liege?
Medea, I don't quite know what you are saying, but this works for Visions. EDIT: Oh, I see. He said "All cascade spells". Right. Only Visions.
RBW Mardu Pyro
X Eldrazi
Pauper:
X Affinity
G Stompy
Mmm. I'm not too wild about it. I hate running a one-of to solve their three-of, and it doesn't even attack stuff.
But I'll admit it's a somewhat close call. I'd question whether you'd not rather have extra removal for Dark Confidant (is Bob in the deck?), which might not get them three x card advantage, but does swing and kill you too.
On a different, yet same note, I am almost sort of thinking about running something that gives my animals +1/+1 in the main. It strikes me that, especially with Mirran Crusader replacing Serra Avenger, one more point of damage per creature per combat would be really huge for tempo right now, and really huge for defending the small creature hordes that are around. Maybe one Honor of the Pure main? Am I cray-cray?
J
Quite honestly, I even sideboard it in vs. control as if you can control their brainstorms/STPs tops you have the game half won.
Wynk, you and I are the only ones that know the power of the Chalice with this deck. Every month or so you and I praise the card.
Not only can you plop it down for zero like someone just mentioned (add in the 2 Canonist SB and combo is 99.9% screwed), but setting it at one is deadly to SO many decks. I SB'd Chalice in all my Goblins decks for the same reason. If you ever go T1 Vial, T2 Chalice @ 1, you're going to win.
You can even try to keep mom in and use the Caverns to get around it.
Its useful vs elves but if their smart they will have a main deck viridian shaman so were just slowing them down a bit.
The point is that if you want chalice vs storm then thats fine but if you want it because its not the best vs storm but is still useful vs other decks then id say that its usefulness vs other decks isnt strong enough to give this argument credence.
"Some have said there is no subtlety to destruction. You know what? They're dead."
—Jaya Ballard, task mage
Legacy:
Goblins (21-8-4)
Death&Taxes
--refusing to casting Force of Will since 2010--