This is just an idea me and my friends have been kicking around. not sure if anything like this exists. but basically the idea we talked about is making a format that is casual, ie outline specific parameters for a "casual format". havent really made any sets or rules yet but it would for sure ban cards that dominate formats or are overpowered, making a format that is in the spirit of casual. any one have any leads to this or started anything along these lines?
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
well see that's the point, i don't live under a rock, i know of all the those formats u talked about and that's not what we are looking for. if u ask 20 people here what casual means ud get close to 20 different answers, and that's the thing we want a format for casual players that is not commander or pauper, and legacy is its own beast, we dont play that kinda stuff what im try to do is make a list of set and banning to make a fun casual format that still is balanced and not owned by one single arch-type to date i have not found any official list or rules for something like this and yes i know the whole standardizing casual is redundant argument. but seriously its something that i think need to be developed, not to replace casual, but as an option.
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
if u ask 20 people here what casual means ud get close to 20 different answers
Ok, so you do understand why you'll never get a "standardized casual" format. Why did you propose to standardize what no one will ever agree on?
Fun is subjective. Some people like Vintage power decks in casual, some people want Craw Wurm Turn Sideways decks in casual. You will never create a standardized set of rules and banned cards to fit everyone. That's what it means to be casual.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
LD should be pre-approved and never come as a surprise. Dedicated LD decks make kitties commit suicide.
If you're gonna steal people's turns indefinitely, kindly play by yourself.
Your infinite-combo decks are welcome. However, save everyone stating otherwise, you only get to win once if you pull it off, then change decks, thanks.
Tribal is okay, I guess. And that sliver deck is sooo original. :willywonka: (try winning with a Squire deck next. ;))
The problem with trying to create a structurally defined format with the intent of stopping dominant or degenerate decks is that within any specific cardpool constraints there will always be certain decks and strategies that are more effective than the majority of other decks that could be built. The best result of an attempt to define a standardized format is that it gets widely adopted by lots of players, but this accelerates the process of people figuring out what the top-tier decks are for the format. Some of those top-tier decks will likely be perceived as degenerate. The way to stop this would be to ban cards from these decks as the issues are spotted, which doesn't work well if it isn't maintained by a recognized, official body (this is basically what WotC is doing with the Modern format, given their stated goal of preventing decks from emerging which can reliably kill opponents before turn 4 or so.)
The other issue is that different playgroups have different ideas of what is degenerate or too powerful. I know of playgroups that cry foul at the sight of any infinite combo even if it involves 5 cards where 3 of them are creatures with tap abilities (i.e. everyone else has a turn to remove them first), and there are playgroups who enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to play around Stasis.
Ok, so you do understand why you'll never get a "standardized casual" format. Why did you propose to standardize what no one will ever agree on?
Fun is subjective. Some people like Vintage power decks in casual, some people want Craw Wurm Turn Sideways decks in casual. You will never create a standardized set of rules and banned cards to fit everyone. That's what it means to be casual.
Exactly!! like i said im not trying to replace casual this is something that we want to have as a format for fun. to me casual will never entail anything that is remotely related to any competitive deck or overpowered cards/broken combos. we all know what they are and if ur play groups like to play those kinds of things that's fine but im trying to make a balanced format for the casual table top players. some people have access to power 9 and force of will and a number of other format defining/warping cards. but most of us don't. so to have a guy flop down a counter balance deck when im running my gilder bairn deck is not cool. like i said every will argue what is and is not casual. ie make a format that is related to casual not replacing it!.
oh and p.s. im not asking any of you to approve of or accept this as the new golden standard in casual. im just asking for constructive input into what it should and should not contain. i really don't care if u like/hate think its dumb whatever. its for me any my playgroup, if anyone else want to use it or make one of there own that's cool too im just asking for helpful ideas to help snowball it
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
Exactly!! like i said im not trying to replace casual this is something that we want to have as a format for fun. to me casual will never entail anything that is remotely related to any competitive deck or overpowered cards/broken combos. we all know what they are and if ur play groups like to play those kinds of things that's fine but im trying to make a balanced format for the casual table top players. some people have access to power 9 and force of will and a number of other format defining/warping cards. but most of us don't. so to have a guy flop down a counter balance deck when im running my gilder bairn deck is not cool. like i said every will argue what is and is not casual. ie make a format that is related to casual not replacing it!.
oh and p.s. im not asking any of you to approve of or accept this as the new golden standard in casual. im just asking for constructive input into what it should and should not contain. i really don't care if u like/hate think its dumb whatever. its for me any my playgroup, if anyone else want to use it or make one of there own that's cool too im just asking for helpful ideas to help snowball it
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:
1. Start with Legacy banlist, add all cards banned in Modern, then all cards that were ever banned in standard. If they were too powerful in any of those formats, they're too powerful here.
2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
3. Graveyards are the same as exile. Too many powerful cards can be reanimated cheaply. Dredge and flashback decks are also extremely un-fun, so we're going to treat the graveyard like a second exile zone.
4. No alternate win conditions. It's really cheap for you to just play a Felidar Sovereign after gaining life all game to win on your upkeep, especially since no one's allowed to run removal (or would, even if we could).
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
I think that accomplishes what you're looking for.
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"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:
1. Start with Legacy banlist, add all cards banned in Modern, then all cards that were ever banned in standard. If they were too powerful in any of those formats, they're too powerful here.
2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
3. Graveyards are the same as exile. Too many powerful cards can be reanimated cheaply. Dredge and flashback decks are also extremely un-fun, so we're going to treat the graveyard like a second exile zone.
4. No alternate win conditions. It's really cheap for you to just play a Felidar Sovereign after gaining life all game to win on your upkeep, especially since no one's allowed to run removal (or would, even if we could).
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun! so any one got any real input?
I think that accomplishes what you're looking for.
lol like i said its not somthing im making for every one, now if u have any real input id appreciate it but i mean come on man really? like that dog? # 1 is ok but the rest of those just ooze with sarcasm i think they need to invent the sarcasm button just for u
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
lol like i said its not somthing im making for every one, now if u have any real input id appreciate it but i mean come on man really? like that dog? # 1 is ok but the rest of those just ooze with sarcasm i think they need to invent the sarcasm button just for u
If you're not making it for him/others then how can you call it "standardized"? I'm not sure you know what you're asking for.
so does any one have any real input or is everyone just gonna argue semantics? i mean is it that much of a big deal to ask for help for this community and not get smart arse remarks for tim, bob and bill? @Jivanmukta, if u read my post here you would see that im making this for me and my playgroup, and like i already said if u dont agree or like it thats fine. u can take it or leave it. use it or lose i really don't care. All i am asking for is some REAL input not sarcasm and nit picking
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
so does any one have any real input or is everyone just gonna argue semantics? i mean is it that much of a big deal to ask for help for this community and not get smart arse remarks for tim, bob and bill? @Jivanmukta, if u read my post here you would see that im making this for me and my playgroup, and like i already said if u dont agree or like it thats fine. u can take it or leave it. use it or lose i really don't care. All i am asking for is some REAL input not sarcasm and nit picking
The real problem here is you are asking people not in your playgroup for ideas for your playgroup. We don't know what you guys like playing, what you think is fair/unfair. So even if we wanted to help you we are completely incapable of it because FUN IS SUBJECTIVE.
All cards from Innistrad, M13, Return to Ravnica, Gatecrash, Dark Ascension, Avacyn Restored, Dragon's Maze are legal. No cards can be in more than 4 times in a deck except Forest, Island, Mountain, Plains, Swamp that can be there as many times as you want. Decks must contain at least 60 cards with an optional sideboard of exactly 15 cards.
This seems to do it. There's also a variant where you can only play Dragon's Maze, Gatecrash, Return to Ravnica.
so does any one have any real input or is everyone just gonna argue semantics? i mean is it that much of a big deal to ask for help for this community and not get smart arse remarks for tim, bob and bill? @Jivanmukta, if u read my post here you would see that im making this for me and my playgroup, and like i already said if u dont agree or like it thats fine. u can take it or leave it. use it or lose i really don't care. All i am asking for is some REAL input not sarcasm and nit picking
You're not going to get particularly useful advice from this forum on building a specific banlist for your playgroup. My previous explanation still applies about why banlists can't completely stop decks from being degenerate. Also, we don't know what cards have specifically been problematic in your playgroup. If you're looking to address specific issues, the best solution is to discuss it with your group. The group should be able to decide for itself whether it wants to permit certain strategies. If you guys specifically decide to ban Counterbalance then so be it.
My playgroup is pretty informal about this, but if I had to put our unspoken rules into words it would go roughly like this:
1. Don't be a jerk. If you know people don't like playing against a certain deck of yours, use it sparingly.
2. Don't bring $1000 tuned tier 1 competitive decks to the table. Tournaments exist for a reason.
3. If you bring something degenerate, you will get hated out by the table during the game and you have no right to complain about it.
4. If you are asked to play a different deck, do it.
You're being quite unclear about what you're looking for. Your request appears to be "casual format with overpowered cards banned," but that's exactly what Legacy is. How exactly is that different than what you're looking for?
Also, I echo everyone making the point that asking people outside your playgroup for rules that will affect your playgroup is a non-starter.
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"The sword blazed bright as he held it high, filling him with righteous might." - Book 4, Tome of Kor-Nevan
so here it is a ban list, we are using the modern and legacy ban list with these additions, it will include all sets save un sets. Tarmagoyf, daze, Force of Will, Strip Mine, WasteLand. Stoneforge mystic, Jace the Mind Sculptor,karakas, Helm of obedience, grind stone, Iona,Sneak attack, intuition, show and tell, lions eye diamond, Gaea’s cradle, cavern of souls, Armageddon, dread return,liquid metal coating, candelabra of tawnos, metal worker. this is a rough draft so far and more will be added/ removed as seen fit.
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
You're being quite unclear about what you're looking for. Your request appears to be "casual format with overpowered cards banned," but that's exactly what Legacy is. How exactly is that different than what you're looking for?
Also, I echo everyone making the point that asking people outside your playgroup for rules that will affect your playgroup is a non-starter.
Just so I am clear. Are you stating that Legacy is a format where overpowered cards are banned:o
My Storm Crow deck is not Legacy legal. That's hardly an over powered deck. I do not think banning cards is the solution for a casual format. Banning tournament-tier decks might be a better idea. And that still won't apply to every play group.
Just so I am clear. Are you stating that Legacy is a format where overpowered cards are banned:eek:
second this one, legacy is in no way shape or form what i am looking for, i play legacy and its a beast unto its own. and exactly the opposite of what im trying to accomplish. thanks to gaea's regent for the real input, everyone else seems to be getting offended or something, like i said im not trying to make casual into a format. maybe everyone is getting confused with the post title, so my apologizes all. i should have named the post something different.
any way my goal was to make a Casual-ish format that encompassed all sets save unsets. the point of banning cards is to neuter know and proven arch types, so as not to have basically legacy, and to allow development of new decks.
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
The $10 limit would certainly do the trick. In most cases though, its not the cards themselves. Its the players and what they do with those cards.
Some people can't identify that some cards or combo's are not fun for the rest of the table. Or they haven't learned to do it once that meet, have their laugh then switch decks. This is the glaring problem my playgroup has at the moment, so I've been sticking to FNM at the store instead.
Most definitely! You can build a deck that can win on turn 2 with nothing but Commons. Perhaps the entire deck wouldn't even cost $10. If you throw a bunch of broken Uncommons like Sol Ring and Demonic Tutor into that mix, it'll be even worse.
"Overpowered" is relative. There will always be decks that are way better than everything else. The trick to balancing a format is making sure that this top spot is as crowded as possible.
There have been a couple of "budget" tournaments around here where you could only play cards that cost $1 or less. I couldn't make it, but from what I gather there was quite a varied metagame. I would definitely enjoy a deckbuilding challenge like that. However, I also like to play with the other half of my collection.
Its easy to say yes there will be. But that doesnt mean there actually will be an overpowered turn 2 winning deck. Do you have a list of the deck, or atleast the core cards of the deck?
No, but seriously: Standardized Casual is an oxymoron.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Also, Pauper is a thing.
As for me, I want to keep using my Tolarian Academy and my Candelabra of Tawnos to power my Assembly-Worker deck, thank you very much.
My YouTube Channel
Ok, so you do understand why you'll never get a "standardized casual" format. Why did you propose to standardize what no one will ever agree on?
Fun is subjective. Some people like Vintage power decks in casual, some people want Craw Wurm Turn Sideways decks in casual. You will never create a standardized set of rules and banned cards to fit everyone. That's what it means to be casual.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
My YouTube Channel
The other issue is that different playgroups have different ideas of what is degenerate or too powerful. I know of playgroups that cry foul at the sight of any infinite combo even if it involves 5 cards where 3 of them are creatures with tap abilities (i.e. everyone else has a turn to remove them first), and there are playgroups who enjoy the challenge of figuring out how to play around Stasis.
oh and p.s. im not asking any of you to approve of or accept this as the new golden standard in casual. im just asking for constructive input into what it should and should not contain. i really don't care if u like/hate think its dumb whatever. its for me any my playgroup, if anyone else want to use it or make one of there own that's cool too im just asking for helpful ideas to help snowball it
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:
1. Start with Legacy banlist, add all cards banned in Modern, then all cards that were ever banned in standard. If they were too powerful in any of those formats, they're too powerful here.
2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
3. Graveyards are the same as exile. Too many powerful cards can be reanimated cheaply. Dredge and flashback decks are also extremely un-fun, so we're going to treat the graveyard like a second exile zone.
4. No alternate win conditions. It's really cheap for you to just play a Felidar Sovereign after gaining life all game to win on your upkeep, especially since no one's allowed to run removal (or would, even if we could).
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
I think that accomplishes what you're looking for.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
If you're not making it for him/others then how can you call it "standardized"? I'm not sure you know what you're asking for.
The real problem here is you are asking people not in your playgroup for ideas for your playgroup. We don't know what you guys like playing, what you think is fair/unfair. So even if we wanted to help you we are completely incapable of it because FUN IS SUBJECTIVE.
This seems to do it. There's also a variant where you can only play Dragon's Maze, Gatecrash, Return to Ravnica.
My playgroup is pretty informal about this, but if I had to put our unspoken rules into words it would go roughly like this:
1. Don't be a jerk. If you know people don't like playing against a certain deck of yours, use it sparingly.
2. Don't bring $1000 tuned tier 1 competitive decks to the table. Tournaments exist for a reason.
3. If you bring something degenerate, you will get hated out by the table during the game and you have no right to complain about it.
4. If you are asked to play a different deck, do it.
Also, I echo everyone making the point that asking people outside your playgroup for rules that will affect your playgroup is a non-starter.
Current EDH decks:
WBG Doran, the Siege Tower (I Like Big Butts)
URG Surrak Dragonclaw (Guttural Response)
UG Ezuri, Claw of Progress (Phyrexia's Claw)
BR Kaervek the Merciless (Keep Kaervek Alive)
BG Ishkanah, Grafwidow (Descend into Delirium)
W Eight-and-a-Half-Tails (Mark 8.5)
U Thassa, God of the Sea (Here There Be Monsters)
Tarmagoyf, daze, Force of Will, Strip Mine, WasteLand. Stoneforge mystic, Jace the Mind Sculptor,karakas, Helm of obedience, grind stone, Iona,Sneak attack, intuition, show and tell, lions eye diamond, Gaea’s cradle, cavern of souls, Armageddon, dread return,liquid metal coating, candelabra of tawnos, metal worker. this is a rough draft so far and more will be added/ removed as seen fit.
My YouTube Channel
Just so I am clear. Are you stating that Legacy is a format where overpowered cards are banned:o
My YouTube Channel
second this one, legacy is in no way shape or form what i am looking for, i play legacy and its a beast unto its own. and exactly the opposite of what im trying to accomplish. thanks to gaea's regent for the real input, everyone else seems to be getting offended or something, like i said im not trying to make casual into a format. maybe everyone is getting confused with the post title, so my apologizes all. i should have named the post something different.
any way my goal was to make a Casual-ish format that encompassed all sets save unsets. the point of banning cards is to neuter know and proven arch types, so as not to have basically legacy, and to allow development of new decks.
You get stuff like Tinker, Sol Ring, Demonic Tutor. But you also, dont have Duals or Fetches. You get Shocks and Mirage Fetches.
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
Some people can't identify that some cards or combo's are not fun for the rest of the table. Or they haven't learned to do it once that meet, have their laugh then switch decks. This is the glaring problem my playgroup has at the moment, so I've been sticking to FNM at the store instead.
My Buying Thread
1) The deck must be fun to play. You should be enjoying yourself.
2) The deck must be fun to play against. Avoid bull**** or uninteractive strategies that make people feel like they're watching you play.
3) See rule 1.
4) ?????
5) Profit.
~~~
Its easy to say yes there will be. But that doesnt mean there actually will be an overpowered turn 2 winning deck. Do you have a list of the deck, or atleast the core cards of the deck?
BUWGRChilds PlayGRWUB
BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
UR Mana FlareRU
UMerfolkU
B MBMC B