I don't have a lot of time to post in the next few hours, but Iso wants me to post:
<Iso says:> "Wessel is obviously not paying attention.
And Seppel is obviously being dumb. I've already explained why it would be beneficial to us to gain an extra vote. WoLG and I are two different people. We have varying opinions. But we're stuck in the same role. So to express that properly, we could use an extra vote. How does having an extra vote equate to having the Ring, Seppel?"
Also, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous with the favor gaming and ring stuff. I guess I could have stopped mentioning the extra vote thing a while ago, but I don't see how that makes me scummy. Most of you had said that you felt I was confirmed town/the most town, so me having an extra vote was a safer bet than say, giving it to wessel or stardust.
I get no abilities whatsoever from getting an extra vote, outside being able to vote twice.
Also: Zionite said that when he gets lynched whoever hammers him gets the ring, which has nothing to do with an extra vote. I'm not going to be voting Zionite, so that's not an issue.
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That still doesn't absolve the fact that an extra vote on confirmed town is better than an extra vote on an unknown. And you're also not addressing the accusation that you are likely gollum and need the ring. We know that the flavor in this game is from characters within the setup. You make perfect sense as gollum and you explain the reason why I have an item at all.
That still doesn't absolve the fact that an extra vote on confirmed town is better than an extra vote on an unknown. And you're also not addressing the accusation that you are likely gollum and need the ring.
What?
1.) If you feel the extra vote is better off on Zinda or you, I don't have any issue with one of you getting it. The only thing that I've been saying this whole time is that there are two people represented by my role, so two different votes would be nice to have.
2.) How many times to I have to say that we're not gollum and don't need the ring? How am I "not addressing the accusation" WHEN I'VE STATED REPEATEDLY THAT I'M NOT GOLLUM!!!?!?!
We know that the flavor in this game is from characters within the setup. You make perfect sense as gollum and you explain the reason why I have an item at all.
Yeah, the way my role is set up, from a flavor standpoint, makes more sense as Gollum. He's one character with two personalities. Asian Invasion has said that he should have made it a hydra account where we both could post, but he didn't (hindsight is 20/20.)
Fili and Kili are two brothers, but they are of one mind because of their closeness so they don't need to both speak to have their opinion heard. It still makes flavorfull sense for this role to work. It made sense to me, Asian, and Iso anyway. No one has name copped me and no one is claiming that they are fili or kili, so the only thing you're going on is flavor and mod gaming, which is a pretty bad reason to try and get me lynched, especially when there's scum to kill.
We're not neutral, and even if we were, WHICH WE ARE NOT, it's obvious that lynching us would be a significantly worse play than lynching scum.
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I don't really care at this point, because you will be proven wrong when I get mislynched. I have crap going on in real life that is messing with my ability to be clear headed, and responding to you and seppels fearmongering is worthless. I've said what I needed to say and I know I'm right.
From now on I'm going to do my best to ignore all the baseless speculation and see if I can solidify my reads.
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So I understand that many people don't believe me, so I've already made a timestamped image of my claim that I will post once everyone else has fullclaimed.
This is against the spirit of the rules and is not allowed.
@zindabad: Why is WoLG not a threat? Hypothetically, if WoLG is Gollum, shouldn't we be worried he'll take my Ring? If you can explain why he isn't a threat, I'd be down for lynching Stardust.
@WoLG: if your life is too overwhelming to play, replace out. I honestly hate that excuse because it puts us in a position where it's either 1) I'm a jerk for pushing you or 2) you're a jerk for using RL as an excuse for bad play. It's much better if we can all be accountable for our actions while playing the game or refrain from posting until we can. All I have to analyze is what you post, so at least give me that.
@WoLG: if your life is too overwhelming to play, replace out. I honestly hate that excuse because it puts us in a position where it's either 1) I'm a jerk for pushing you or 2) you're a jerk for using RL as an excuse for bad play. It's much better if we can all be accountable for our actions while playing the game or refrain from posting until we can. All I have to analyze is what you post, so at least give me that.
That's understandable. What I'm saying is that you're not using what I'm posting, or my play, to say I'm a neutral. You're saying I'm a neutral based on modgaming and listening to the words of someone who is confirmed scum. Outside of me and Iso wanting an extra vote, which I've already stated that I no longer care if we get or not, what have I done that leads you to believe I'm neutral? Nothing. I believe my play has been very pro-town and I've been looking for scum, and that's all you can really ask of a townie. I'm saying that this baseless fearmongering is a huge distraction, and my ability to respond to -that- is challenged by real life issues. Real life isn't going to stop me looking for scum, it just cuts out my patience for this BS.
Iso's reaction to all of this: "OMFG
Are we being trolled?!?"
Which is basically how I feel about this whole situation.
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That's understandable. What I'm saying is that you're not using what I'm posting, or my play, to say I'm a neutral. You're saying I'm a neutral based on modgaming and listening to the words of someone who is confirmed scum. Outside of me and Iso wanting an extra vote, which I've already stated that I no longer care if we get or not, what have I done that leads you to believe I'm neutral? Nothing. I believe my play has been very pro-town and I've been looking for scum, and that's all you can really ask of a townie. I'm saying that this baseless fearmongering is a huge distraction, and my ability to respond to -that- is challenged by real life issues. Real life isn't going to stop me looking for scum, it just cuts out my patience for this BS.
Iso's reaction to all of this: "OMFG
Are we being trolled?!?"
Which is basically how I feel about this whole situation.
Let's face it, you're Gollum and we all know it at this point. Two people in one role, like two personalities in Smeagol's poor little demented brain. Only one body to share between them, however, which explains why there's only one of you, instead of you and Iso having your own roles, like actual masons would. Decent falseclaim (probably mod-provided, tbf) but it was never going to happen for you once you started talking about having another voice in your head.
The question is what to do with you. I can't imagine a game where Gollum would be able to kill Bilbo, get the ring, and win outright at the expense of everyone else as early as N1 with a lucky kill, not to mention we've seen no extra kills. You could be holding back a kill, especially a one-shot, though.
I think it ties into this ring-bearer stuff. People with the ring-bearer rolename might be able to hang onto the ring without it doing bad things, while people without it might get corrupted by it and turn into SKs, kind of like the puzzle box in Grim Batol. If Gollum gets the ring, then he might get super powers a la Iso's role in Seasons, or he might just fulfill his wincon if he survives the rest of the game. That is kind of Gollum's thing - surviving.
All of that is flavor-gaming and doesn't really answer what to do with you, but I think people will be a lot more forgiving if you just come clean with your role. At this point I'm strongly considering lynching you over Stardust just because your status is still up in the air while I already know Stardust is scum.
At this point I'm strongly considering lynching you over Stardust just because your status is still up in the air while I already know Stardust is scum.
You're willing to let an obvious scum live because you think I might be neutral? That's pretty garbage logic. Why not lynch the scum first? If the game is still going after we lynch Wessel and Stardust, please by all means lynch me.
If I am a survivor, and you're conjecturing that I need the ring to survive: the ring can only be passed on by lynching Zionite, and he's the cop so we have NO reason to do that. So that means I'm not going to get the ring (Which I don't want anyway) That means by your own logic, I'd be fully willing to lose the game by never voting Zionite. If you truely believe that, then just let me lose the game and let's lynch the obvious scum.
Iso: "This is just ridiculous (read: god-awful). We have obvscum Wessel and Stardust in PLAIN SIGHT and our Cop is considering lynching us on the grounds that we MIGHT be a Neutral? What absolute garbage."
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In the 14 mins in between Zinda posting and my reply I was: Typing up my reply, reading the QT, posting in the QT, making my post. Didn't see it until now. But I *JUST* told Iso that the town could stand mislynching us and still win, and that I no longer believed the ring to be a red herring. I was starting to type up my T/S list and vote myself to prove a point, I'm glad I didn't, as it would have been unfair to Iso.
But your claimed role makes perfect sense with how you reacted to the mass claim. Especially posts 995-7.
I was getting worried that there was a gollum out there that had already false claimed and I was going to be mislynched on modgaming.
Anyway, can we get on with lynching scum-stardust today?
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Yes, I'm a neutral, and my goal is to find and steal the {One Ring}. To that end, I can target someone every Night to try to see if that person has it.
If I manage to find it, I will win and leave the game.
We're currently either in a 5-1-2 situation or a 6-1-1 situation (Town-Neutral-Mafia). If in the worst case scenario Seppel is lynched and he's town, it'll be at the worst 4-1-2, and after the Night, if Zionite is the One Ring bearer, it'll be 3-0-2 (I leave the game and a townie is NK'd by the scum). Then Voxxicus is lynched, after which it's 3-0-1, a townie is NK'd, 2-0-1, and Stardust is lynched and the town wins the game.
You just have to target the correct player to win? It doesn't kill Zionite at all? You don't have to survive to the end of the game?
Oh hey, how about a quick updated T/S list before I go. Colors may be a bit wonky since I'm on an 8-color connection.
Seppel (r. CropCircles) - Still has one transformation left
Caex Kothar - Turned out to be one of the worst cops ever
DYH/Kpaca - Kpaca was acting town and DYH is good.
Zionite - Posting with intent. I haven't seen anything that mirrors Cyberspace play.
DRey - Seems to be playing his towngame.
Stardust - Actively scumhunting. Don't like the continued push on Caex, though.
WellOfLostGnomes - I remember liking what he had to say, but can't remember any of it.
Wessel - Need answers.
Cyouni (r. Deaths_Vampire) - Need content.
zindabad - One post of content. Voxx favoritism.
Xyre - Hypocritical statement against Kpaca. Ending his "pro/joke" post with a question mark. A confusingly aggressive attempt to call DRey scum with Kpaca. An accusation of Zionite coaching out in the open. Something that seems like an appeal to DRey to vote Caex.
Voxxicus (r. Che Guevera) - As Che, bad participation, mindset is off, and he called Caex the cop. Voxx's entrance was mud.
#662: Is the first to vote Cyouni, but only after Stardust said that Cyouni should be the lynch since Xyre's a bad lynch.
Xyre's #658 and #659 spoke to me. Just because I didn't post about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I led the charge on Cyouni. Stardust posted a case but didn't vote, yet you've somehow made me out to be the bad guy.
Seppel is suffering badly from the 'I only want to vote someone if I get prior permission for it' syndrome. Catchy name. But what it shows is that Seppel clearly tries not to get the blame for the mislynches.
What? There's only been one mislynch.
Unless you count Xyre's fakelynch as a mislynch, and I've taken full responsibility for causing a fiasco there.
Do you see Stardust or WoLG as mislynches? If so, then you have far more insight than you're letting on.
Now Seppel as scum also makes much more sense in a 2-man scum team. Since Caex flipped goon, and looking at the rest of the claimed roles, the last scum would have to have an awesome power to be able to fight against the town's power. So what if he's a mafia joat? That would make more sense in every case. It would explain his N1 target. Why would he target DRey? Because of the possibility of him being a 'toughguy'? Why not target Caex for example? Or even Xyre? Then he could have tried to either attract the investigation action to himself (clearing himself in the process), or the NK which would then fizzle, since one of them practically had to be scum. He targeted DRey not in spite, but because he didn't want his vigshot to hit Caex. Or maybe he's just a simple roleblocker, which is less likely, but not strictly impossible.
So. But what if there's a three man scum team? That would cause the possibility of a D2 MYLO situation, but maybe Asianmod calculated that in. Because for a MYLO situation to exist, I already should have won. So there's a win already. Also, since there's so much power in this setup, it wouldn't surprise me if there were three scum next to me being a neutral. Now Stardust is a possibility for that, but I don't know. I believe his claim. It's logical now that I see it that AsianI included two decoy Ring-Bearers (wasn't something like that also in the book? Can't remember, too long ago...) And I don't know, something strikes me as truthful about his claim. But I can't rule out the possibility; for that he's played too suspiciously. However, on the other hand I think he's unlikely to be scum with Seppel. When I offered him the possibility to look for an argument which would clear Seppel, rather than looking for it, he chose not to do it. But wouldn't a scumbuddy relish the opportunity to clear a buddy? So overall, I don't think Stardust is scum with Seppel, nor that he is scum alone.
I read this and see it as "Don't lynch Stardust or WoLG!"
Let's assume another scenario: You're roleswapping with WoLG (you're mafia and you're allowing WoLG to keep pretending to be fili and Kili). If you keep the neutral alive and push the lynch away from Stardust, and mislynch me, you give WoLG the opportunity to go on with his parade. You go into the night with 7 alive with likely 3 anti-town. After a NK, you're at 3 town and 3 anti-town (possibly even 2 town and 2 anti-town if WoLG is a hitman as Xyre said). Either way, you control the lynch and you win.
Like seriously, as I was reading your post, the logical conclusion is lynch Stardust. But just as you're about to park into that destination, you suddenly turn like 180 degrees and 45 kilometers and you're like "Hey let's lynch Seppel." Even "lynch Voxx" would have made more sense from your perspective.
It's all about the larger point I'm making- You might champion a case, but you only ever dare to vote on someone after someone else has done so. Scared to be blamed later. It didn't happen once, or twice, it happened three times (not counting Caex, cause it was obvious he was scum). The only ever time you really championed a 'wagon' was when you voted Che, who is likely your buddy.
I voted Xyre before it was cool.
I voted Cyouni before it was cool.
I voted WoLG after it was cool, which you admit to right in the same post:
If your implication is that I don't want to lynch Stardust or WOLG because they're my buddies, how does that make sense? You think it must be a four man scum team? And if your implication is that I'm scum with either of them, I'd invite you (and everyone else who wants to) to reread my game to see how my play stacks up with my role.
My implication is that you're lying about your wincon.
Stardust - Claimed Unkillable (UnNightkillable or also Unlynchable? Please clarify, Stardust)
Yeah, only night kills. I can be lynched as well as anyone.
Unvote.
Wessel's claim surprised me. I'd been assuming he was the Jailer Caex talked about, but I guess that was bull**** too. Can someone remind me why you're now looking to lynch the only claimed protective PR (me)? Like, apparently I play scummy, but that can't be the right way to go.
Well this explains Wessel's odd behavior; I believe the claim.
Thinking on it further, someone had to mastermind the Caex cop claim (probably daychat since WoLG apparently has it with Iso), the "jailer" shenanigans, the "neutral" read on WoLG by Caex, as well as the night choices.
I can definitely see that person being Seppel or Voxx. I don't see it being Stardust. I would put the latter back on the table if there are indeed three scum.
As much as I'd like to be stubborn and see if I was right from the get-go, I'm going to give Voxx the benefit of the doubt on these two because of Che's vote for Caex, even though it could've been dismissive scum distancing and looking for major townie points.
Seppel's "trap" sprung on WoLG in hindsight and some sleep looks pretty awful - trying to get focus on a neutral party rather than finding the mafia. (And as mentioned above, spear-headed by WIFOM from the dying scum). I'm not real fond of the JOAT claim, either.
Vote: Seppel
PWE: And it continues. For kicks, what exactly do you think Wessel's WC is, Seppel?
Wessel reads as genuine. WoLG and Iso's frustration as well.
unvote
Here's what I'm thinking: Wessel, as scum, would never put himself out there like this. He already knows a gollum claim is going to be lynched. The only reason he'd claim right now is because he's a neutral working with the town and preventing a mislynch. If it's true that he doesn't kill for the ring (which is likely in a game of this size), then there's no reason whatsoever to lynch him. If I'm dead on Day 4 and he isn't removed from the game, he's instantly lynched.
So we aren't lynching Wessel. We aren't lynching WoLG. We're going back to lynching scum, which is Stardust.
Seppel's consistent neutral hunting turns my read of him upside down. I'm starting to think of Seppel as the scum mastermind, because he is capable of it. But I'm not sure enough about it to lynch him today. I'd rather get the sure scum out of the way just to be safe.
Remember that I don't like lynching based on claims; I lynch based on play. Caex is a great example. As far as play goes, Stardust is a sure bet.
It's like Stardust doesn't even acknowledge my existence.
@DYH: I think it's either, "You win when the mafia equal or outnumber the town" or "You win when, at the end of the game, you control the One Ring." Even when I falseclaimed neutral right at the beginning of the game in Magical Girl Mafia (with the wincon of "target player X, then live to the end of the game), people were skeptical of how "easy" it was to reach that wincon. I was in fact town, and the person I had to target was AsianInvasion, our mod (though we became mason-cop-vigs for being successfully targeted, which made us stupidly overpowered).
I'm very skeptical of Wessel's claim as-is. Everything points to WoLG being Gollum, but I'll cede if Wessel flips Gollum. And at this point, there's no way that Wessel is town. I'd be perfectly happy to lynched if this was autowin, but it's not. If Wessel is Gollum and he lives to tomorrow, today is MyLo.
Lynch Wessel, then lynch Stardust (or WoLG if Wessel flips mafia and the game is still going on), then reconvene.
It's complete suicide to not lynch mafia or Gollum today.
There's also the confidence factor; Wessel had his timestamp claim idea (which I don't know what that is good for anyway) squashed, but the fact that he was confident in his claim leads me to believe he's being truthful. Stardust's claim on the other hand looks like regurgitated information; not something kept in mind throughout the game. This is why he points out where his role came in as far as mindset for us instead of letting us see it ourselves.
@Seppel: You're not doing yourself any favors right now. I'm not going to lynch Wessel today, and I'm assuming zindabad isn't interested either. It makes literally no sense to make that claim if he's just going to die the next day. Scum have to be alive to win. If Wessel wants to take the Ring, fine. I don't see any reason to hold onto it except for respecting flavor; it really is a useless ability. I also don't see how in an alternate play of this game where I claimed Day 1, I would die from Gollum and not get my cop result posted. This game is designed very well; I don't believe scum would get a freebie from the neutral in a small game like this.
Xyre's #658 and #659 spoke to me. Just because I didn't post about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I led the charge on Cyouni. Stardust posted a case but didn't vote, yet you've somehow made me out to be the bad guy.
Then you come out and claim that you can't be killed (which only makes sense if Wessel is Gollum and does kill Ring-bearers), yet that completely steps on the toes of my untargetability/bodyguard-ish/doc abilities. Your claim isn't real because I'm the protective role.
@Seppel: You're not doing yourself any favors right now. I'm not going to lynch Wessel today, and I'm assuming zindabad isn't interested either. It makes literally no sense to make that claim if he's just going to die the next day. Scum have to be alive to win. If Wessel wants to take the Ring, fine. I don't see any reason to hold onto it except for respecting flavor; it really is a useless ability. I also don't see how in an alternate play of this game where I claimed Day 1, I would die from Gollum and not get my cop result posted. This game is designed very well; I don't believe scum would get a freebie from the neutral in a small game like this.
I'm convinced that Stardust and Wessel's tango today was two buddies fake-fighting. It even goes back to D1 where they're asking semi-serious questions, but still playing footsie with each other:
I will answer the second, but not the first. Typically I'm of the opinion that pouring too much info on reads into a thread is bad for the town since it gives a chance for the scum to tell who is reading stronger and plan accordingly. Some sharing of information is important, of course, so I had no problem answering your question since I believe you're town. Given that, I assumed you had a plan to use that information in some way and wanted to follow-up with a question to make sure you actually do follow-through. So, why did you ask?
So you have no problem asking me for information, but you will not answer the question I asked because that would pour too much information on the thread? Ok... Well, let me answer your 'why did you ask question' now. In #383, you stated you will support DRey's lynch regardless of what else you're going to find, including Xyre who is a town read to you. That's insincere - how do you know your view on DRey and others will remain roughly the same?
Also, the formulation 'You're funny, but I like you' is strange. So you think I'm funny, but despite that, you think I'm probably town. Why is that?
The specific reason I asked I will not tell because that would defeat the purpose of the question. I will explain what I wanted with the question some time in the future, or if you're dead.
Hmm. Stardust's post came in just when I submitted my post. I have to say, Stardust, you seem to have a good eye on everything.
Btw Stardust, can you explain to me why 'random killing' is generally better for town?
Also, can you answer the two questions I asked you earlier?
Random killing is better for the town since the only concrete information we have is the alignment of ourselves and the dead. I threw the "generally" in there since random killing could be quite disastrous later on once we have plenty of information but few townies left to spare. At this point in the game, though, I think it would be beneficial more often than not. Especially if the random kill hits scum, of course.
I'm not so happy about the (depending on whether we mislynch) 8/11 or 9/11 chance the vig would hit town. Which is why I'm happy to lynch DRey. He's firmly scum in my book and I don't see the benefit of leaving him alive since he has a large chance at hitting town if he's truly the vig. So we either lynch him which will either be a correct or a mislynch (I'm almost sure it's the former). Or we don't lynch him and we have an even larger chance to lose town due to DRey's vig.
But the most important thing is that even if DRey is truthful, if we lynch him we take away one kill, which will lengthen the game, which is more beneficial to town.
I decided not to respond to Zionite's case just yet. We're coming up on deadline, so I won't waste time by tearing that down unless you guys actually want to lynch me. So here's Che instead.
How likely do you think it is that Che is going to be lynched, compared to, say, you?
I'm leaning more on Stardust than Wessel; again, if Wessel is scum we will handle it tomorrow, and if he's neutral then he's telling the truth and there's nothing to worry about.
Assuming Wessel is neutral, that leaves the last scum to either be Seppel, DYH, or Voxxicus, in that order.
Why doesn't Stardust see that Seppel has also claimed a protective role? (While if he's scum with Seppel, he'd know what Seppel claimed, and if he is scum without Seppel, he'd at least try to make sure he doesn't claim something someone else has claimed.)
Again with the attempt to turn something scummy that Stardust did and turn it on me.
@Seppel: You didn't address my point that if Wessel is scum, it's suicide to claim gollum at the point that he did. Literally the only reason he could have done it is to save us from mislynching WoLG, which is good enough for me to give him a pass.
@Seppel: You didn't address my point that if Wessel is scum, it's suicide to claim gollum at the point that he did. Literally the only reason he could have done it is to save us from mislynching WoLG, which is good enough for me to give him a pass.
Say the scum have a rolecop, Wessel rolecops WoLG, sees the Gollum role, sees that his only chance of victory is to keep WoLG alive and mislynch me. WoLG shuts up, Wessel plays to lynch me.
@Seppel: You didn't address my point that if Wessel is scum, it's suicide to claim gollum at the point that he did. Literally the only reason he could have done it is to save us from mislynching WoLG, which is good enough for me to give him a pass.
Say the scum have a rolecop, Wessel rolecops WoLG, sees the Gollum role, sees that his only chance of victory is to keep WoLG alive and mislynch me. WoLG shuts up, Wessel plays to lynch me.
That's a hell of a conspiracy, Seppel. No evidence to support it. Possible, yes. Likely, not in the slightest.
I know this is against the spirit of the game, but it is within the rules. Another point in Wessel's favor is the use of {One Ring}, rather than Ring or whatever. So now I'm doubly certain Wessel is Gollum. No way Wessel is scum; he must be neutral.
The only thing I can think of to explain your behavior Seppel is if you're mafia. Like I said, I'm not as positive as I am on Stardust, but you're now my top suspect after Stardust.
Yeah. That or your crazy "wessel is a rolecop, targeted WoLG, saved him by claiming his role and explaining it better, WoLG is neutral playing with mafia" theory.
what probably explains my behavior is that I had coffee today in a desperate attempt to stay awake and that explains why I feel wired and why everyone is going so slow
Zionite - Total Bilbo
zindabad - Total Cleared
WellOfLostGnomes - Sure, Fili and Kili, whatevs
DYH - Town Governor
Wessel - Gollum, neutral
Stardust - ignoring me
Voxxicus - vanilla in a high-power game
I don't see why Seppel would block you; you're removed from the game when you get the ring so that's in scumSeppel's best interests to have less votes floating around.
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If Stardust and WoLG are on the same team, you guys can just go ahead and /concede.
Signing off for the day!
And WoLG needs to die today.
<Iso says:> "Wessel is obviously not paying attention.
And Seppel is obviously being dumb. I've already explained why it would be beneficial to us to gain an extra vote. WoLG and I are two different people. We have varying opinions. But we're stuck in the same role. So to express that properly, we could use an extra vote. How does having an extra vote equate to having the Ring, Seppel?"
Also, you guys are being absolutely ridiculous with the favor gaming and ring stuff. I guess I could have stopped mentioning the extra vote thing a while ago, but I don't see how that makes me scummy. Most of you had said that you felt I was confirmed town/the most town, so me having an extra vote was a safer bet than say, giving it to wessel or stardust.
I get no abilities whatsoever from getting an extra vote, outside being able to vote twice.
Also: Zionite said that when he gets lynched whoever hammers him gets the ring, which has nothing to do with an extra vote. I'm not going to be voting Zionite, so that's not an issue.
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Unvote, Vote: Stardust
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What?
1.) If you feel the extra vote is better off on Zinda or you, I don't have any issue with one of you getting it. The only thing that I've been saying this whole time is that there are two people represented by my role, so two different votes would be nice to have.
2.) How many times to I have to say that we're not gollum and don't need the ring? How am I "not addressing the accusation" WHEN I'VE STATED REPEATEDLY THAT I'M NOT GOLLUM!!!?!?!
Yeah, the way my role is set up, from a flavor standpoint, makes more sense as Gollum. He's one character with two personalities. Asian Invasion has said that he should have made it a hydra account where we both could post, but he didn't (hindsight is 20/20.)
Fili and Kili are two brothers, but they are of one mind because of their closeness so they don't need to both speak to have their opinion heard. It still makes flavorfull sense for this role to work. It made sense to me, Asian, and Iso anyway. No one has name copped me and no one is claiming that they are fili or kili, so the only thing you're going on is flavor and mod gaming, which is a pretty bad reason to try and get me lynched, especially when there's scum to kill.
We're not neutral, and even if we were, WHICH WE ARE NOT, it's obvious that lynching us would be a significantly worse play than lynching scum.
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I don't really care at this point, because you will be proven wrong when I get mislynched. I have crap going on in real life that is messing with my ability to be clear headed, and responding to you and seppels fearmongering is worthless. I've said what I needed to say and I know I'm right.
From now on I'm going to do my best to ignore all the baseless speculation and see if I can solidify my reads.
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WellOfLostGnomes (3): Zionite, Seppel, Stardust
Stardust (2): zindabad, WellOfLostGnomes
Wessel (1): Voxxicus
Not Voting (2): DYH, Wessel
With 8 alive, it's 5 votes to lynch.
Day Three will end no later than 11:59PM EST, Sunday, June 2nd.
This is against the spirit of the rules and is not allowed.
That's understandable. What I'm saying is that you're not using what I'm posting, or my play, to say I'm a neutral. You're saying I'm a neutral based on modgaming and listening to the words of someone who is confirmed scum. Outside of me and Iso wanting an extra vote, which I've already stated that I no longer care if we get or not, what have I done that leads you to believe I'm neutral? Nothing. I believe my play has been very pro-town and I've been looking for scum, and that's all you can really ask of a townie. I'm saying that this baseless fearmongering is a huge distraction, and my ability to respond to -that- is challenged by real life issues. Real life isn't going to stop me looking for scum, it just cuts out my patience for this BS.
Iso's reaction to all of this: "OMFG
Are we being trolled?!?"
Which is basically how I feel about this whole situation.
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Let's face it, you're Gollum and we all know it at this point. Two people in one role, like two personalities in Smeagol's poor little demented brain. Only one body to share between them, however, which explains why there's only one of you, instead of you and Iso having your own roles, like actual masons would. Decent falseclaim (probably mod-provided, tbf) but it was never going to happen for you once you started talking about having another voice in your head.
The question is what to do with you. I can't imagine a game where Gollum would be able to kill Bilbo, get the ring, and win outright at the expense of everyone else as early as N1 with a lucky kill, not to mention we've seen no extra kills. You could be holding back a kill, especially a one-shot, though.
I think it ties into this ring-bearer stuff. People with the ring-bearer rolename might be able to hang onto the ring without it doing bad things, while people without it might get corrupted by it and turn into SKs, kind of like the puzzle box in Grim Batol. If Gollum gets the ring, then he might get super powers a la Iso's role in Seasons, or he might just fulfill his wincon if he survives the rest of the game. That is kind of Gollum's thing - surviving.
All of that is flavor-gaming and doesn't really answer what to do with you, but I think people will be a lot more forgiving if you just come clean with your role. At this point I'm strongly considering lynching you over Stardust just because your status is still up in the air while I already know Stardust is scum.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
You're willing to let an obvious scum live because you think I might be neutral? That's pretty garbage logic. Why not lynch the scum first? If the game is still going after we lynch Wessel and Stardust, please by all means lynch me.
If I am a survivor, and you're conjecturing that I need the ring to survive: the ring can only be passed on by lynching Zionite, and he's the cop so we have NO reason to do that. So that means I'm not going to get the ring (Which I don't want anyway) That means by your own logic, I'd be fully willing to lose the game by never voting Zionite. If you truely believe that, then just let me lose the game and let's lynch the obvious scum.
Iso: "This is just ridiculous (read: god-awful). We have obvscum Wessel and Stardust in PLAIN SIGHT and our Cop is considering lynching us on the grounds that we MIGHT be a Neutral? What absolute garbage."
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In the 14 mins in between Zinda posting and my reply I was: Typing up my reply, reading the QT, posting in the QT, making my post. Didn't see it until now. But I *JUST* told Iso that the town could stand mislynching us and still win, and that I no longer believed the ring to be a red herring. I was starting to type up my T/S list and vote myself to prove a point, I'm glad I didn't, as it would have been unfair to Iso.
But your claimed role makes perfect sense with how you reacted to the mass claim. Especially posts 995-7.
I was getting worried that there was a gollum out there that had already false claimed and I was going to be mislynched on modgaming.
Anyway, can we get on with lynching scum-stardust today?
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lolwhat
You just have to target the correct player to win? It doesn't kill Zionite at all? You don't have to survive to the end of the game?
Oh hey, how about a quick T/S list only 50 posts before that:
It's 2 for Voxx, 2 for Xyre, then you guys drop 2 more votes on Xyre. Ergo:
Xyre's #658 and #659 spoke to me. Just because I didn't post about it doesn't mean it didn't happen. I led the charge on Cyouni. Stardust posted a case but didn't vote, yet you've somehow made me out to be the bad guy.
SPOILERS: Here's the situation: There's 8 people alive, very likely a neutral running around, and pieces of the puzzle are missing.
What? There's only been one mislynch.
Unless you count Xyre's fakelynch as a mislynch, and I've taken full responsibility for causing a fiasco there.
Do you see Stardust or WoLG as mislynches? If so, then you have far more insight than you're letting on.
I read this and see it as "Don't lynch Stardust or WoLG!"
Let's assume another scenario: You're roleswapping with WoLG (you're mafia and you're allowing WoLG to keep pretending to be fili and Kili). If you keep the neutral alive and push the lynch away from Stardust, and mislynch me, you give WoLG the opportunity to go on with his parade. You go into the night with 7 alive with likely 3 anti-town. After a NK, you're at 3 town and 3 anti-town (possibly even 2 town and 2 anti-town if WoLG is a hitman as Xyre said). Either way, you control the lynch and you win.
Like seriously, as I was reading your post, the logical conclusion is lynch Stardust. But just as you're about to park into that destination, you suddenly turn like 180 degrees and 45 kilometers and you're like "Hey let's lynch Seppel." Even "lynch Voxx" would have made more sense from your perspective.
You have an odd idea about what imploding is.
I voted Xyre before it was cool.
I voted Cyouni before it was cool.
I voted WoLG after it was cool, which you admit to right in the same post:
@Zionite: Is there any way you can give the One Ring to someone else?
Here'e where we're at: we can't risk letting the real Gollum live tonight unless we hit a scum.
WoLG is either Gollum or town.
Wessel is either Gollum or scum.
Ergo: Unvote, vote Wessel.
My implication is that you're lying about your wincon.
Yeah, only night kills. I can be lynched as well as anyone.
Unvote.
Wessel's claim surprised me. I'd been assuming he was the Jailer Caex talked about, but I guess that was bull**** too. Can someone remind me why you're now looking to lynch the only claimed protective PR (me)? Like, apparently I play scummy, but that can't be the right way to go.
Thinking on it further, someone had to mastermind the Caex cop claim (probably daychat since WoLG apparently has it with Iso), the "jailer" shenanigans, the "neutral" read on WoLG by Caex, as well as the night choices.
I can definitely see that person being Seppel or Voxx. I don't see it being Stardust. I would put the latter back on the table if there are indeed three scum.
As much as I'd like to be stubborn and see if I was right from the get-go, I'm going to give Voxx the benefit of the doubt on these two because of Che's vote for Caex, even though it could've been dismissive scum distancing and looking for major townie points.
Seppel's "trap" sprung on WoLG in hindsight and some sleep looks pretty awful - trying to get focus on a neutral party rather than finding the mafia. (And as mentioned above, spear-headed by WIFOM from the dying scum). I'm not real fond of the JOAT claim, either.
Vote: Seppel
PWE: And it continues. For kicks, what exactly do you think Wessel's WC is, Seppel?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
unvote
Here's what I'm thinking: Wessel, as scum, would never put himself out there like this. He already knows a gollum claim is going to be lynched. The only reason he'd claim right now is because he's a neutral working with the town and preventing a mislynch. If it's true that he doesn't kill for the ring (which is likely in a game of this size), then there's no reason whatsoever to lynch him. If I'm dead on Day 4 and he isn't removed from the game, he's instantly lynched.
So we aren't lynching Wessel. We aren't lynching WoLG. We're going back to lynching scum, which is Stardust.
Seppel's consistent neutral hunting turns my read of him upside down. I'm starting to think of Seppel as the scum mastermind, because he is capable of it. But I'm not sure enough about it to lynch him today. I'd rather get the sure scum out of the way just to be safe.
Remember that I don't like lynching based on claims; I lynch based on play. Caex is a great example. As far as play goes, Stardust is a sure bet.
@DYH: I think it's either, "You win when the mafia equal or outnumber the town" or "You win when, at the end of the game, you control the One Ring." Even when I falseclaimed neutral right at the beginning of the game in Magical Girl Mafia (with the wincon of "target player X, then live to the end of the game), people were skeptical of how "easy" it was to reach that wincon. I was in fact town, and the person I had to target was AsianInvasion, our mod (though we became mason-cop-vigs for being successfully targeted, which made us stupidly overpowered).
I'm very skeptical of Wessel's claim as-is. Everything points to WoLG being Gollum, but I'll cede if Wessel flips Gollum. And at this point, there's no way that Wessel is town. I'd be perfectly happy to lynched if this was autowin, but it's not. If Wessel is Gollum and he lives to tomorrow, today is MyLo.
Lynch Wessel, then lynch Stardust (or WoLG if Wessel flips mafia and the game is still going on), then reconvene.
It's complete suicide to not lynch mafia or Gollum today.
Vote Stardust
What are you talking about? I caught one thing during a reread and blew the game open. And I posted it 25 hours ago.
Did you even ask me any questions? If you're going to mudsling, at least have something to back it up.
Vote Stardust
So, back to Stardust. vote Stardust
Then you come out and claim that you can't be killed (which only makes sense if Wessel is Gollum and does kill Ring-bearers), yet that completely steps on the toes of my untargetability/bodyguard-ish/doc abilities. Your claim isn't real because I'm the protective role.
I'm convinced that Stardust and Wessel's tango today was two buddies fake-fighting. It even goes back to D1 where they're asking semi-serious questions, but still playing footsie with each other:
Stardust (4): zindabad, WellOfLostGnomes, Zionite, Seppel
Seppel (2): DYH, Wessel
Wessel (1): Voxxicus
Not Voting (1): Stardust
Assuming Wessel is neutral, that leaves the last scum to either be Seppel, DYH, or Voxxicus, in that order.
Again with the attempt to turn something scummy that Stardust did and turn it on me.
Yeah, you and Stardust are scum. No other reason you'd out this.
Unvote, vote Stardust.
Say the scum have a rolecop, Wessel rolecops WoLG, sees the Gollum role, sees that his only chance of victory is to keep WoLG alive and mislynch me. WoLG shuts up, Wessel plays to lynch me.
That's a hell of a conspiracy, Seppel. No evidence to support it. Possible, yes. Likely, not in the slightest.
Yeah, you and Stardust are scum. No other reason you'd out this.
Unvote, vote Stardust.[/QUOTE]
This just further cements how much they are buddies.
The only thing I can think of to explain your behavior Seppel is if you're mafia. Like I said, I'm not as positive as I am on Stardust, but you're now my top suspect after Stardust.
Zionite - Total Bilbo
zindabad - Total Cleared
WellOfLostGnomes - Sure, Fili and Kili, whatevs
DYH - Town Governor
Wessel - Gollum, neutral
Stardust - ignoring me
Voxxicus - vanilla in a high-power game
Yeah, let's go
unvote, vote Stardust