Just vote Xyre Zion, by affirming he's does not want anyone to be lynched, he has just admitted to be scum (for the fourth time?)
Guy is clearly scum pushing for a no-lynch.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I've stated clearly I do not want to lynch Xyre and given a variety of other possible lynches. Until one of those several choices are a viable lynch candidate, it's going to default to a no lynch anyway. I don't mind lynching Wessel, but the reality is that we're not going to get him lynched in 2 days.
What was the advantage again of keeping DRey alive?
There isn't one, him being scum and all. I think I'll make a case on DRey later tonight or early tomorrow. Then at least if I die the crap he's done this game won't go unpunished and ya'll can lynch him D2.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I just realized a problem. Assuming one of us is scum (or, for DRey's benefit: assuming one of Caex or Cyouni is scum), the mafia can shoot the second and block the third and we don't know what's true, but what is definitely true is we gain nothing.
One of the underpinnings of my "keep us alive" plan was that we could get at least one result by keeping us all alive because the mafia only can stop two of us at best. But that doesn't account for lies. It's not worth delaying if we need to trade two of us to catch the third as scum, and, as others have acknowledged, this setup must be really strange if somehow all three of us are town. I think I'm willing to take that chance, because at least if somehow we're all town I can take solace in being screwed by the universe.
So, yeah, Unvote, Vote Caex. Still don't like it over one of my three main suspects, but at least Cyouni is testable.
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I expect Seppel, DYH, WoLG, and Voxxicus to vote Caex in their next post. I don't expect Stardust or zindabad to care. I would be pleased to see Wessel and Cyouni on board.
Still don't like it over one of my three main suspects, but at least Cyouni is testable.
Who are your three suspects again?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
It just makes no sense. What on earth is this guy's excuse for being alive going to be if he's scum? He claimed unprotectable, unblockable cop. If that doesn't scream "auto-kill me", I don't know what does.
If he's still alive for any length of time, we should be killing him, whether by lynch or vig. What I don't understand is why we are basically doing the scum's work for them. They have to kill Caex if he's town. If they don't, we can take care of him at our leisure.
Tell me how the costs of potentially lynching our cop before he even has a chance to fire off an investigation are worth the potential benefit of lynching a scum who is already dead in the water if he actually is scum.
Lynching Caex today is insanity and you can count me out.
I also love how Zionite is talking about "the team" when he's doing nothing and was actually voting no lynch 2 days before deadline. It's just mealy-mouthed garbage to make it sound as though he's town. He's about as sincere as a 3-dollar bill. How can we possibly be considering lynching our claimed cop (or any of our claimed power, really) over that scumzilla?
It just makes no sense. What on earth is this guy's excuse for being alive going to be if he's scum? He claimed unprotectable, unblockable cop. If that doesn't scream "auto-kill me", I don't know what does.
If he's still alive for any length of time, we should be killing him, whether by lynch or vig. What I don't understand is why we are basically doing the scum's work for them. They have to kill Caex if he's town. If they don't, we can take care of him at our leisure.
Tell me how the costs of potentially lynching our cop before he even has a chance to fire off an investigation are worth the potential benefit of lynching a scum who is already dead in the water if he actually is scum.
Lynching Caex today is insanity and you can count me out.
I also love how Zionite is talking about "the team" when he's doing nothing and was actually voting no lynch 2 days before deadline. It's just mealy-mouthed garbage to make it sound as though he's town. He's about as sincere as a 3-dollar bill. How can we possibly be considering lynching our claimed cop (or any of our claimed power, really) over that scumzilla?
This. So much of this!
Caex at least has the chance of proving his alignment tomorrow, where as Xyre does not. Xyre is the most likely to me to be lying about his role, and he's setting up the lynch of the claimed cop today and going to have the tracker killed tonight, then talk his way out of a lynch tomorrow. This most recent push on Caex is cementing my belief that he is scum. If anyone is going to be lynched today, it should be Xyre. Unvote, Vote: Xyre
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It just makes no sense. What on earth is this guy's excuse for being alive going to be if he's scum? He claimed unprotectable, unblockable cop. If that doesn't scream "auto-kill me", I don't know what does.
If he's still alive for any length of time, we should be killing him, whether by lynch or vig. What I don't understand is why we are basically doing the scum's work for them. They have to kill Caex if he's town. If they don't, we can take care of him at our leisure.
Tell me how the costs of potentially lynching our cop before he even has a chance to fire off an investigation are worth the potential benefit of lynching a scum who is already dead in the water if he actually is scum.
Lynching Caex today is insanity and you can count me out.
I also love how Zionite is talking about "the team" when he's doing nothing and was actually voting no lynch 2 days before deadline. It's just mealy-mouthed garbage to make it sound as though he's town. He's about as sincere as a 3-dollar bill. How can we possibly be considering lynching our claimed cop (or any of our claimed power, really) over that scumzilla?
You are so predictable.
It comes down to behavioral analysis, as it always does. The simple fact is that he's the scummiest of the lynch pool. Regardless of the claim, he needs to hang. A scum on a rope will say anything to get out of the lynch; see my performance in Avatar mafia for a demonstration on how believing a scum false claim can destroy a town. Despite how nice Caex's claim sounds, it's a lie to get him out of dying.
If there were better targets, I'd agree that Caex could be left alone. But there aren't better targets, and there's a deadline that needs to be respected. If you seriously think you can get 7 votes on me in 2 days, then you're either arrogant or stupid. Either way, you're not helping anyone here to decide how to get a lynch through before the deadline. At least I'm trying. You're doing nothing as always: predictable.
"mealy-mouthed garbage", "3-dollar bill", "scumzilla", completely rhetorical dirt flinging with terrible reasoning. These are scum words to shore up a bad argument.
Caex at least has the chance of proving his alignment tomorrow, where as Xyre does not. Xyre is the most likely to me to be lying about his role, and he's setting up the lynch of the claimed cop today and going to have the tracker killed tonight, then talk his way out of a lynch tomorrow. This most recent push on Caex is cementing my belief that he is scum. If anyone is going to be lynched today, it should be Xyre. Unvote, Vote: Xyre
Does Iso approve of this?
If Xyre is lynch worthy because he wants to lynch Caex, why am I exempt from the same process?
Let's quit trying to game the setup with roles that may or may not even be real and use actual behavioral analysis to lynch please.
What "push"? You make it sound like I just started beating the drum and said "oh yeah let's kill this guy"! I realized there are no good choices and that Caex's claim will in the end prove nothing, contrary to the opinion I held for half the game. And I did that only after prodding from Zionite to that effect.
I want to lynch other people, but DRey says "no, let's not extract more claims". Which is fine! But when I decide to pick a side, suddenly I'm "pushing".
The fact of the matter is there are NO GOOD CHOICES for me. I can't vote NL, because duh. I can't vote Caex or Cyouni, because they supposedly can be cleared. I can't vote Voxx or DRey because I think they're town. I can't vote Wessel or zindabad because "no claims". I can't vote myself because I'm town and that would be stupid.
So you've set me up for a tremendous fall from a catch-22? Yeah, nice logic there, pardner.
Yeesh, I'm starting to feel like Wessel says he does.
If Xyre is lynch worthy because he wants to lynch Caex, why am I exempt from the same process?
Let's quit trying to game the setup with roles that may or may not even be real and use actual behavioral analysis to lynch please.
1.) You obviously haven't been reading my posts. Pretty much every time I've quoted Iso he's been saying that Xyre is scum and should be lynched. He's been telling me to lynch Xyre for over a month.
2.) Xyre is "lynch worthy" because of his scummy play, not just because he wants to lynch Caex. Let's start reading posts before we make snarky comments.
What "push"? You make it sound like I just started beating the drum and said "oh yeah let's kill this guy"! I realized there are no good choices and that Caex's claim will in the end prove nothing, contrary to the opinion I held for half the game. And I did that only after prodding from Zionite to that effect.
I want to lynch other people, but DRey says "no, let's not extract more claims". Which is fine! But when I decide to pick a side, suddenly I'm "pushing".
The fact of the matter is there are NO GOOD CHOICES for me. I can't vote NL, because duh. I can't vote Caex or Cyouni, because they supposedly can be cleared. I can't vote Voxx or DRey because I think they're town. I can't vote Wessel or zindabad because "no claims". I can't vote myself because I'm town and that would be stupid.
So you've set me up for a tremendous fall from a catch-22? Yeah, nice logic there, pardner.
Yeesh, I'm starting to feel like Wessel says he does.
I'm going to assume here that you're angry about being voted and aren't intentionally misunderstanding my post. It seems to me that you're responding to my post as if I said that it was the first time you were pushing for Caex's lynch or that you were voting him without any reasons. What I said was that your "most recent push" (i.e. your logic and vote in post 816) cemented my belief that you are scum.
Also: Why listen to DRey? He's flip flopped and raged so much that I don't believe a word coming out of his mouth anymore. I agree that it would be terrible to possibly out a protective role, but that's not as terrible as lynching a claimed power role who has a chance of proving themselves over night. Out of the four claimed PR's, he's the only one that I would be comfortable lynching today regardless of his claim.
I've stated on multiple occasions that it's a bad call to lynch caex, you, or Cy because you are information roles. The only reason I'm changing my stance and voting you now is because your behavior is so oriented to your own survival that you'll say what ever you need to in order to try and not get lynched.
There's no catch 22. You act as if all these "rules" that have been set out by other players are binding. If you truely, actually, believe that caex is scum and should be lynched, by all means keep your vote there regardless of what anyone else says to you.
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It's a bad call to lynch Xyre because he's claimed an info role, but you vote him anyway.
By your very same reasoning, a lynch on xyre, caex, or Cyouni are interchangeable. But Caex is holding the most scum tells, so why won't you vote him? I feel like you're ignoring the rest of the game to focus on select bits from Xyre that paint him as scummy. And how those tells change when we find out Caex's alignment doesn't really matter to you.
I'm going to assume here that you're angry about being voted and aren't intentionally misunderstanding my post. It seems to me that you're responding to my post as if I said that it was the first time you were pushing for Caex's lynch or that you were voting him without any reasons. What I said was that your "most recent push" (i.e. your logic and vote in post 816) cemented my belief that you are scum.
My point centered around the use of the word "push", rather than something more fitting, like... "resignation", a la "to fate".
Also: Why listen to DRey? He's flip flopped and raged so much that I don't believe a word coming out of his mouth anymore. I agree that it would be terrible to possibly out a protective role, but that's not as terrible as lynching a claimed power role who has a chance of proving themselves over night. Out of the four claimed PR's, he's the only one that I would be comfortable lynching today regardless of his claim.
Really? Wow. I never took you for a hypocrite.
So you're willing to vote me - to lynch, presumably, given the deadline - despite the fact that I'm less suspicious innately than DRey (seeing as by your implication I'm not lynchable solely based on my behavior) and despite the fact that I have a role that I would argue is as provable as Caex's or Cyouni's (unless I draw the RB, which also threatens Cyouni, or the kill, which threatens all of us but especially Caex) and despite the fact that "lynching a claimed power role who has a chance of proving themselves over night" is TERRIBLE.
That's amazing. Lemme go try and reread you, see if I missed something.
I've stated on multiple occasions that it's a bad call to lynch caex, you, or Cy because you are information roles. The only reason I'm changing my stance and voting you now is because your behavior is so oriented to your own survival that you'll say what ever you need to in order to try and not get lynched.
Prove it. I've said repeatedly that if people don't trust me they know where to find my neck. Anything I've said to save myself has been both true and well-intentioned, in addition to self-serving. I dare you to show otherwise.
Hey, you know what kind of role I'd expect Gollum to have? Hitman for Bilbo. I doubt Iso and WoLG have different alignments; they probably exist together simply as a top-down design thing - otherwise, this game would be a full specialty, I reckon.
@xyre: Voting for dRey at this point would be the same as a no lynch and we don't need that today. So I'm voting the person both people playing my role thinks is scum. Both me and iso believe you are the most likely to be lying about your claimed role. I think caex and cyouni have been scummy, but I don't currently believe either of them are lying about their roles. I can't prove your intentions or the truth of what you're saying.
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@xyre: Voting for dRey at this point would be the same as a no lynch
No it wouldn't. We'd have a dead guy. That's information. If you think he's scum, he's worth lynching, ay? But the prospect seems so... "banal" to you.
So I'm voting the person both people playing my role thinks is scum. Both me and iso believe you are the most likely to be lying about your claimed role. I think caex and cyouni have been scummy, but I don't currently believe either of them are lying about their roles. I can't prove your intentions or the truth of what you're saying.
You're not rectifying the logic I highlighted. You think I'm lying about my claim, but you also said it's not worth lynching someone with "a chance of proving themselves over night". That implies you don't even think I have a chance. Which seems like an unreasonable amount of certainty.
@xyre: Voting for dRey at this point would be the same as a no lynch
No it wouldn't. We'd have a dead guy. That's information. If you think he's scum, he's worth lynching, ay? But the prospect seems so... "banal" to you.
There's not enough people that share in my opinion of him, so me voting for him would be the same thing as voting for a no lynch or not voting at all. I'm also willing to see if he can prove his extra kill and I'll go on determining his alignment from there.
You're not rectifying the logic I highlighted. You think I'm lying about my claim, but you also said it's not worth lynching someone with "a chance of proving themselves over night". That implies you don't even think I have a chance. Which seems like an unreasonable amount of certainty.
Apparently I'm having a harder time than normal explaining myself.
If this were kingmaker and I was king, we wouldn't be lynching anyone who has claimed so far today. Most people seem to be of the mind that we should be lynching either you or Caex. There's a little over 40 hours left in the day, so I find myself having to pick a side if I don't want us to no lynch. Out of the two of you, I think you're more likely to be lying about your role. If we had time and people weren't so afraid of running up a possible protection role, I think we could eventually get a majority vote on someone who isn't the six people claimed.
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Except you voted me for doing the exact same thing, to Caex! Wouldn't you agree we did the same - voting someone we aren't keen on voting for want of a lynch? So what makes me somehow worse?
Except you voted me for doing the exact same thing, to Caex! Wouldn't you agree we did the same - voting someone we aren't keen on voting for want of a lynch? So what makes me somehow worse?
It's not the same thing:
1.) There aren't people calling for my lynch and I don't have multiple votes on me, so I'm obviously not voting you to try and draw attention away from myself and save my own skin.
2.) I didn't vote you *only* because you voted for Caex, I said that the way you did it was "cementing my belief that you are scum." I called it a push because to me, it reads as you attempting to get him lynched solely so they don't lynch you. I can see where you're coming from when you call that post "resigned" as opposed to a forceful word like "push" but the verbiage you used in that post doesn't read like a sincere re-evaluation of the situation in which you're coming up with the best possible scenario for the town. It reads like you realizing the only way you're going to live is by lynching Caex, regardless of the fact that you "don't like" having your vote there.
My issue with all of this is that if all three of you, or even just you and Caex, are town, the mafia has done a pretty superb job of setting you all up to get killed and lynched immediately. I'm taking my side and sticking to it barring a better case on someone else before the deadline. If I'm wrong about you, you'll have my appologies in the post game.
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Comparing a cop claim to a watcher or tracker this early in the game is like comparing apples to ducks. Not the same thing.
Worst case scenario is that who we lynch is town - and lynching town cop is much worse than lynching town anything else, when leaving him alive for at least one day forces the scum to either shoot him or let him get a check.
Like, I get that it's a dichotomy. Probably, at least - it's not outside the realm of possibility that this is just a stupid high power game (minus me, apparently) - but resolving it via cop lynch is just...dumb.
The only way I support lynching Caex today is if there's an actual cop that counterclaims him, and I don't really see that happening.
Xyre was my strongest scum read before votes were reset - and while I feel better about him recently, a lot of that is AtE type stuff which is relatively easy to fake. The frustration at not having any options reads as genuine - but I can also read that as town and scum frustration, at not having an 'out'.
I really, really don't like DYH. It's a mix of gut, his fixation on lynching the 'easy' claim, and what feels like the lack of a town mindset - he's not trying to figure things out. It's difficult to articulate, but he just feels like abrasive, dismissive scum, and I want him cop checked. It's not a strong enough case to lynch him over, not with the scummy play and role dichotomies floating around. But I've learned to trust my D1 gut reads.
But given that I don't want to lynch the un-cc'd cop, think Cyouni's role is more likely to be townsided with the provable extra vote on track /and/ think Xyre is fairly likely scum, we should lynch Xyre.
I'll revisit things tomorrow when it's not 4 am and I've slept, but I think I'm pretty set on that.
Hey, you know what kind of role I'd expect Gollum to have? Hitman for Bilbo. I doubt Iso and WoLG have different alignments; they probably exist together simply as a top-down design thing - otherwise, this game would be a full specialty, I reckon.
I feel like this further proves my point. You're trying to throw feces and see where it sticks with the hope that everyone forgets all forget about lynching you.
In this post you're: 1.) Fearmongering about neutrals based only on your idle speculation. 2.) Trying to paint me and Iso as anti town based on this speculation. 3) Saying we're lying about the claim and thus trying to cast suspicion on me just because we're voting you.
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I expect Seppel, DYH, WoLG, and Voxxicus to vote Caex in their next post. I don't expect Stardust or zindabad to care. I would be pleased to see Wessel and Cyouni on board.
Yeah, that's not going to happen. I've already explained why - multiple times.
I really, really don't like DYH. It's a mix of gut, his fixation on lynching the 'easy' claim, and what feels like the lack of a town mindset - he's not trying to figure things out. It's difficult to articulate, but he just feels like abrasive, dismissive scum, and I want him cop checked. It's not a strong enough case to lynch him over, not with the scummy play and role dichotomies floating around. But I've learned to trust my D1 gut reads.
Well of course you don't - I want you lynched because you're scum, and that's obviously a problem for you. But you don't want it to look like OMGUS so you continue to scummily direct power roles around and just talk about how much you don't "like me". I am abrasive - to you - because I think you're scum. Also, it's not just that you're an "easy" lynch - that clearly hasn't been the case as you're not dead yet - but your predecessor was useless and scummy, and I'm clearly not impressed with your contributions.
I'm not trying to "figure things out" because the game state calls for a scenario where we need N1 to pass in order to make the best decision.
I'd tell you to get a new gut, but I don't think you're town, so that's not the issue.
Quote from Voxx »
But given that I don't want to lynch the un-cc'd cop, think Cyouni's role is more likely to be townsided with the provable extra vote on track /and/ think Xyre is fairly likely scum, we should lynch Xyre.
And now, of course you want to lynch a claimed power role. Not going to happen.
Quote from Voxx »
I'll revisit things tomorrow when it's not 4 am and I've slept, but I think I'm pretty set on that.
But be sure to leave the door open in case you need to backtrack on your current opinion if it's not well-received. Got it.
It occurred to me as I was daydreaming that the same elegance applied to Caex's role - the guaranteed cop shot if he's in the dark, and dead once exposed - also applies to Cyouni's role.
Only in reverse.
Once the tracking has outlived it's usefulness (which admittedly, we've exacerbated by ousting so many claims), it becomes a game-changer with the extra vote applied to scum buddy.
On general principle, I'm wary of any role that has contingencies on extra votes - ever since my days in Court Mafia where as scum I basically "confirmed" myself day 1 with multiple votes (those votes went away at the end of the day). This is no exception.
I was most wary of Cyouni as I mentioned earlier because of the convenience of his claim - last in timing. Also, he wasn't nearly as inquisitive as he was in Cyberspace. If you held a gun to my head and I had to vote one of the three, it would be Cyouni, and it wouldn't be close.
That said, it's certainly not a requirement to vote one of them today, and I'm still of the opinion we should get their results D2, see who the scum opted to kill, and work from there.
First of all, sorry for flipping out at you Zionite. I'm sick of you twisting everything I say, I'm sick of your blatant lies that get glossed over, and I'm frustrated that no one else seems to even care about all this crap you're spewing. But this is still a game and there's no reason to get that worked up. It's your job to lie to me, right? So, sorry.
Anyway, this sucks. Seven competing wagons with 38 hours to go, and I have little interest in five of them. I'd most like to see Zionite dead, but that's clearly not going to happen despite my hopes three days ago. WoLG's recent points against Xyre ring true, but why are we lynching claimed PR's when this will all be figured out for us tomorrow? Oh right, fear of claims. This is ridiculous.
DYH, is a scum vote-granter even balanced? Giving an extra vote to a scum buddy late in the game wouldn't just be game-changing, it would be game-breaking.
A scum vote-granter is not only balanced but quite elegant imho. I'm completely missing the "Cy role is town exclusive" because I'm not seeing it at all. I'm saying this with a big caveat however, a scum vote granter could not use his power on a teammate, the beauty of such a role is that the scum would have to choose between another vote for someone of the opposite team or not using his power at all.
I'm fine considering Cy confirmed town if somehow he manages to use his power on confirmed scum.
That being said I see no reason for lynching him anytime soon, in fact I've never noticed anything scummy about him at all the whole game. If there's a case out there I've missed it.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
With great powers comes great responsibility. This is so true. I've never felt so powerful before, being a vig just that awesome. Sometimes it's kinda hard to resist the urge to shoot the idiot of the game.
@Zion time to move on, this wagon is not going to happen toDay. I know you dislike Xyre's wagon but sometimes we need to compromise and play with the rest of the town. Xyre is obvscum only you can't see. Let's deal with Caex toMorrow.
unvote, vote Xyre
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I started one here and ended it here. Pretty decent if I do say so myself. You probably never read it thanks to your fixation on lynching claimed PR's.
But yeah, Cyouni's claim feels very townie. It's still a double-edged sword since he would want to track scum and give the votes to town, but it feels much more realistic than what would basically just be a terrible rolecop.
@DRey: So why would such a scum PR be elegant? 'Either it isn't used at all, or you give the town a direct advantage'? That's not going to work either. So either Cyouni is truthful about his role and must be town, or he's scum and lying about his role.
It's quite elegant, because there's a real choice to be made. Both choices have pros and cons, with extensive ramifications, a hard role and potentially powerful role to play.
Clever scum could manage to get "confirmed" town status (against lesser players, because I know I'm not clearing anyone because of such a role unless my condition is fullfilled) while facilitating mislynches by careful choice of target.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You probably never read it thanks to your fixation on lynching claimed PR's.
In mafia there's something called dichotomy, it means that when 2 guys claim same role one of them is certainly scum, we don't want to solve dichotomies at lylo. Scum are afraid of creating non-lylo dichotomies because in the long run it ensures they will take the fall.
Mafia has no interest of solving dichotomies, and hoping they will do our work for them is naive at best. They will just manuever around the real power roles as I've already explained.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Tell you what, Seppel... DRey is the best lynch toDay. We shouldn't lynch any of the investigation roles as I laid out in my post, and unless you have a scumread on Voxxicus, lynching a one-shot vig hurt us the least out of all the viable options.
@DRey: So why would such a scum PR be elegant? 'Either it isn't used at all, or you give the town a direct advantage'? That's not going to work either. So either Cyouni is truthful about his role and must be town, or he's scum and lying about his role.
So I was reading this and thought that something wasn't right.
I don't see what's particularly townie about granting a double vote. The role is extremely elegant, with tracking a scummy player leading to giving that player a powerful weapon (although that weapon will almost certainly be ineffective before endgame), while I could also see it on the scum side as a tradeoff - waste your ability to hunt for a town PR in order to grant a scumbuddy a possibly decisive double vote.
As a note, it's a 'may' clause. So I don't have to alert them to the fact that I targeted them.
His indignance sounded pretty legit when he was fakelynched.
Don't you think scumXyre is capable of that? Also knowing he knew he wasn't really lynched because of the way he fought AI instantly after that.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Ah, yes, another default lynch. (And everyone's following my "pick three" plan, which I think is cute, despite the tragic consequences.) Oh well, I suppose it was inevitable.
I stand by the list of reads I posted a ways back, except I'd put Voxx into Leaning Town. I still think the scum are some combination of Cyouni, zindabad, Wessel, and Caex, contingent upon the validity of Caex's claim. And I suggest telling Caex to investigate a randomly-selected target among the former three.
zindabad's effort is interesting, but I don't think it acquits him, because it doesn't demonstrate any desire to put in effort beyond the means of self-preservation. If it means anything, the zindabad/Seppel exchange makes Seppel look worse just due to the mediocrity of his arguments. zinda's plenty lynchable without the stringy meta reads.
I think there's too much setup speculation; for all the "cop and watcher can't coexist" notions, I think you should judge Caex first and foremost on his play, and second on the results he gives for his supposed claim. Trying to guess what Asian has added won't do you any good, because you don't know how strong the mafia are or what safeguards he's put in place to counteract the town.
DRey, after this game you and I will have a talk about your play and why you're a little awful to play with at times.
It's kind of stupid I got lynched because "oh no we can't have too much power though" by all the people who ragged on me for wanting to kill Caex. This town has memory problems.
I thought I was voting Wessel.
If not, Vote Wessel
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
unvote, Vote No Lynch
Let me know when we decide to start playing as a team.
Guy is clearly scum pushing for a no-lynch.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Ugh. I guess lynch Caex, but not happily.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
There isn't one, him being scum and all. I think I'll make a case on DRey later tonight or early tomorrow. Then at least if I die the crap he's done this game won't go unpunished and ya'll can lynch him D2.
{Magic: The RPG}
One of the underpinnings of my "keep us alive" plan was that we could get at least one result by keeping us all alive because the mafia only can stop two of us at best. But that doesn't account for lies. It's not worth delaying if we need to trade two of us to catch the third as scum, and, as others have acknowledged, this setup must be really strange if somehow all three of us are town. I think I'm willing to take that chance, because at least if somehow we're all town I can take solace in being screwed by the universe.
So, yeah, Unvote, Vote Caex. Still don't like it over one of my three main suspects, but at least Cyouni is testable.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
unvote, vote Caex
If everyone else can please start working with the team, I'd appreciate it.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Zinda, wessel, and cy, but cy is probably town if his ability is exactly as claimed.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
If he's still alive for any length of time, we should be killing him, whether by lynch or vig. What I don't understand is why we are basically doing the scum's work for them. They have to kill Caex if he's town. If they don't, we can take care of him at our leisure.
Tell me how the costs of potentially lynching our cop before he even has a chance to fire off an investigation are worth the potential benefit of lynching a scum who is already dead in the water if he actually is scum.
Lynching Caex today is insanity and you can count me out.
I also love how Zionite is talking about "the team" when he's doing nothing and was actually voting no lynch 2 days before deadline. It's just mealy-mouthed garbage to make it sound as though he's town. He's about as sincere as a 3-dollar bill. How can we possibly be considering lynching our claimed cop (or any of our claimed power, really) over that scumzilla?
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
This. So much of this!
Caex at least has the chance of proving his alignment tomorrow, where as Xyre does not. Xyre is the most likely to me to be lying about his role, and he's setting up the lynch of the claimed cop today and going to have the tracker killed tonight, then talk his way out of a lynch tomorrow. This most recent push on Caex is cementing my belief that he is scum. If anyone is going to be lynched today, it should be Xyre.
Unvote, Vote: Xyre
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
You are so predictable.
It comes down to behavioral analysis, as it always does. The simple fact is that he's the scummiest of the lynch pool. Regardless of the claim, he needs to hang. A scum on a rope will say anything to get out of the lynch; see my performance in Avatar mafia for a demonstration on how believing a scum false claim can destroy a town. Despite how nice Caex's claim sounds, it's a lie to get him out of dying.
If there were better targets, I'd agree that Caex could be left alone. But there aren't better targets, and there's a deadline that needs to be respected. If you seriously think you can get 7 votes on me in 2 days, then you're either arrogant or stupid. Either way, you're not helping anyone here to decide how to get a lynch through before the deadline. At least I'm trying. You're doing nothing as always: predictable.
"mealy-mouthed garbage", "3-dollar bill", "scumzilla", completely rhetorical dirt flinging with terrible reasoning. These are scum words to shore up a bad argument.
Does Iso approve of this?
If Xyre is lynch worthy because he wants to lynch Caex, why am I exempt from the same process?
Let's quit trying to game the setup with roles that may or may not even be real and use actual behavioral analysis to lynch please.
I want to lynch other people, but DRey says "no, let's not extract more claims". Which is fine! But when I decide to pick a side, suddenly I'm "pushing".
The fact of the matter is there are NO GOOD CHOICES for me. I can't vote NL, because duh. I can't vote Caex or Cyouni, because they supposedly can be cleared. I can't vote Voxx or DRey because I think they're town. I can't vote Wessel or zindabad because "no claims". I can't vote myself because I'm town and that would be stupid.
So you've set me up for a tremendous fall from a catch-22? Yeah, nice logic there, pardner.
Yeesh, I'm starting to feel like Wessel says he does.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
1.) You obviously haven't been reading my posts. Pretty much every time I've quoted Iso he's been saying that Xyre is scum and should be lynched. He's been telling me to lynch Xyre for over a month.
2.) Xyre is "lynch worthy" because of his scummy play, not just because he wants to lynch Caex. Let's start reading posts before we make snarky comments.
I'm going to assume here that you're angry about being voted and aren't intentionally misunderstanding my post. It seems to me that you're responding to my post as if I said that it was the first time you were pushing for Caex's lynch or that you were voting him without any reasons. What I said was that your "most recent push" (i.e. your logic and vote in post 816) cemented my belief that you are scum.
Also: Why listen to DRey? He's flip flopped and raged so much that I don't believe a word coming out of his mouth anymore. I agree that it would be terrible to possibly out a protective role, but that's not as terrible as lynching a claimed power role who has a chance of proving themselves over night. Out of the four claimed PR's, he's the only one that I would be comfortable lynching today regardless of his claim.
I've stated on multiple occasions that it's a bad call to lynch caex, you, or Cy because you are information roles. The only reason I'm changing my stance and voting you now is because your behavior is so oriented to your own survival that you'll say what ever you need to in order to try and not get lynched.
There's no catch 22. You act as if all these "rules" that have been set out by other players are binding. If you truely, actually, believe that caex is scum and should be lynched, by all means keep your vote there regardless of what anyone else says to you.
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
By your very same reasoning, a lynch on xyre, caex, or Cyouni are interchangeable. But Caex is holding the most scum tells, so why won't you vote him? I feel like you're ignoring the rest of the game to focus on select bits from Xyre that paint him as scummy. And how those tells change when we find out Caex's alignment doesn't really matter to you.
Xyre (4): Cyouni, Voxxicus, Wessel, WellOfLostGnomes
Caex Kothar (3): Xyre, Zionite, DRey
Voxxicus (2): DYH, zindabad
Cyouni (1): Seppel
DRey (1): Caex Kothar
Zionite (1): Stardust
Not Voting (0): N/A
With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Day One will end no later than 11:59PM EST, Tuesday, May 7th (less than 47 hours from this post).
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
My point centered around the use of the word "push", rather than something more fitting, like... "resignation", a la "to fate".
Really? Wow. I never took you for a hypocrite.
So you're willing to vote me - to lynch, presumably, given the deadline - despite the fact that I'm less suspicious innately than DRey (seeing as by your implication I'm not lynchable solely based on my behavior) and despite the fact that I have a role that I would argue is as provable as Caex's or Cyouni's (unless I draw the RB, which also threatens Cyouni, or the kill, which threatens all of us but especially Caex) and despite the fact that "lynching a claimed power role who has a chance of proving themselves over night" is TERRIBLE.
That's amazing. Lemme go try and reread you, see if I missed something.
Prove it. I've said repeatedly that if people don't trust me they know where to find my neck. Anything I've said to save myself has been both true and well-intentioned, in addition to self-serving. I dare you to show otherwise.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
No it wouldn't. We'd have a dead guy. That's information. If you think he's scum, he's worth lynching, ay? But the prospect seems so... "banal" to you.
You're not rectifying the logic I highlighted. You think I'm lying about my claim, but you also said it's not worth lynching someone with "a chance of proving themselves over night". That implies you don't even think I have a chance. Which seems like an unreasonable amount of certainty.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
There's not enough people that share in my opinion of him, so me voting for him would be the same thing as voting for a no lynch or not voting at all. I'm also willing to see if he can prove his extra kill and I'll go on determining his alignment from there.
Apparently I'm having a harder time than normal explaining myself.
If this were kingmaker and I was king, we wouldn't be lynching anyone who has claimed so far today. Most people seem to be of the mind that we should be lynching either you or Caex. There's a little over 40 hours left in the day, so I find myself having to pick a side if I don't want us to no lynch. Out of the two of you, I think you're more likely to be lying about your role. If we had time and people weren't so afraid of running up a possible protection role, I think we could eventually get a majority vote on someone who isn't the six people claimed.
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
It's not the same thing:
1.) There aren't people calling for my lynch and I don't have multiple votes on me, so I'm obviously not voting you to try and draw attention away from myself and save my own skin.
2.) I didn't vote you *only* because you voted for Caex, I said that the way you did it was "cementing my belief that you are scum." I called it a push because to me, it reads as you attempting to get him lynched solely so they don't lynch you. I can see where you're coming from when you call that post "resigned" as opposed to a forceful word like "push" but the verbiage you used in that post doesn't read like a sincere re-evaluation of the situation in which you're coming up with the best possible scenario for the town. It reads like you realizing the only way you're going to live is by lynching Caex, regardless of the fact that you "don't like" having your vote there.
My issue with all of this is that if all three of you, or even just you and Caex, are town, the mafia has done a pretty superb job of setting you all up to get killed and lynched immediately. I'm taking my side and sticking to it barring a better case on someone else before the deadline. If I'm wrong about you, you'll have my appologies in the post game.
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Awards:
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White.
Comparing a cop claim to a watcher or tracker this early in the game is like comparing apples to ducks. Not the same thing.
Worst case scenario is that who we lynch is town - and lynching town cop is much worse than lynching town anything else, when leaving him alive for at least one day forces the scum to either shoot him or let him get a check.
Like, I get that it's a dichotomy. Probably, at least - it's not outside the realm of possibility that this is just a stupid high power game (minus me, apparently) - but resolving it via cop lynch is just...dumb.
The only way I support lynching Caex today is if there's an actual cop that counterclaims him, and I don't really see that happening.
Xyre was my strongest scum read before votes were reset - and while I feel better about him recently, a lot of that is AtE type stuff which is relatively easy to fake. The frustration at not having any options reads as genuine - but I can also read that as town and scum frustration, at not having an 'out'.
I really, really don't like DYH. It's a mix of gut, his fixation on lynching the 'easy' claim, and what feels like the lack of a town mindset - he's not trying to figure things out. It's difficult to articulate, but he just feels like abrasive, dismissive scum, and I want him cop checked. It's not a strong enough case to lynch him over, not with the scummy play and role dichotomies floating around. But I've learned to trust my D1 gut reads.
But given that I don't want to lynch the un-cc'd cop, think Cyouni's role is more likely to be townsided with the provable extra vote on track /and/ think Xyre is fairly likely scum, we should lynch Xyre.
I'll revisit things tomorrow when it's not 4 am and I've slept, but I think I'm pretty set on that.
Warning for improper use of "retarded".
~Iso
Hopefully for him to shoot scum, but I'm not seeing that as very likely to happen right now.
Cool. You might want to start reading all the posts in the thread.
Apparently I missed this post the first time around:
I feel like this further proves my point. You're trying to throw feces and see where it sticks with the hope that everyone forgets all forget about lynching you.
In this post you're: 1.) Fearmongering about neutrals based only on your idle speculation. 2.) Trying to paint me and Iso as anti town based on this speculation. 3) Saying we're lying about the claim and thus trying to cast suspicion on me just because we're voting you.
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Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Yeah, that's not going to happen. I've already explained why - multiple times.
Well of course you don't - I want you lynched because you're scum, and that's obviously a problem for you. But you don't want it to look like OMGUS so you continue to scummily direct power roles around and just talk about how much you don't "like me". I am abrasive - to you - because I think you're scum. Also, it's not just that you're an "easy" lynch - that clearly hasn't been the case as you're not dead yet - but your predecessor was useless and scummy, and I'm clearly not impressed with your contributions.
I'm not trying to "figure things out" because the game state calls for a scenario where we need N1 to pass in order to make the best decision.
I'd tell you to get a new gut, but I don't think you're town, so that's not the issue.
And now, of course you want to lynch a claimed power role. Not going to happen.
But be sure to leave the door open in case you need to backtrack on your current opinion if it's not well-received. Got it.
Seriously, people, why is Voxx not lynched yet?
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Only in reverse.
Once the tracking has outlived it's usefulness (which admittedly, we've exacerbated by ousting so many claims), it becomes a game-changer with the extra vote applied to scum buddy.
On general principle, I'm wary of any role that has contingencies on extra votes - ever since my days in Court Mafia where as scum I basically "confirmed" myself day 1 with multiple votes (those votes went away at the end of the day). This is no exception.
I was most wary of Cyouni as I mentioned earlier because of the convenience of his claim - last in timing. Also, he wasn't nearly as inquisitive as he was in Cyberspace. If you held a gun to my head and I had to vote one of the three, it would be Cyouni, and it wouldn't be close.
That said, it's certainly not a requirement to vote one of them today, and I'm still of the opinion we should get their results D2, see who the scum opted to kill, and work from there.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Anyway, this sucks. Seven competing wagons with 38 hours to go, and I have little interest in five of them. I'd most like to see Zionite dead, but that's clearly not going to happen despite my hopes three days ago. WoLG's recent points against Xyre ring true, but why are we lynching claimed PR's when this will all be figured out for us tomorrow? Oh right, fear of claims. This is ridiculous.
DYH, is a scum vote-granter even balanced? Giving an extra vote to a scum buddy late in the game wouldn't just be game-changing, it would be game-breaking.
I'm fine considering Cy confirmed town if somehow he manages to use his power on confirmed scum.
That being said I see no reason for lynching him anytime soon, in fact I've never noticed anything scummy about him at all the whole game. If there's a case out there I've missed it.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
@Zion time to move on, this wagon is not going to happen toDay. I know you dislike Xyre's wagon but sometimes we need to compromise and play with the rest of the town. Xyre is obvscum only you can't see. Let's deal with Caex toMorrow.
unvote, vote Xyre
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I started one here and ended it here. Pretty decent if I do say so myself. You probably never read it thanks to your fixation on lynching claimed PR's.
But yeah, Cyouni's claim feels very townie. It's still a double-edged sword since he would want to track scum and give the votes to town, but it feels much more realistic than what would basically just be a terrible rolecop.
Clever scum could manage to get "confirmed" town status (against lesser players, because I know I'm not clearing anyone because of such a role unless my condition is fullfilled) while facilitating mislynches by careful choice of target.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mafia has no interest of solving dichotomies, and hoping they will do our work for them is naive at best. They will just manuever around the real power roles as I've already explained.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
So I was reading this and thought that something wasn't right.
And it isn't:
Cyouni granting a vote is optional.
Get off the Xyre wagon. It reeks. Vote Cyouni.
What's changed for you since voting Xyre back near the last deadline?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
He sounds justifiably mad.