This thread contains the results for week 1 of All Blind Tournament #7 and is the start of week 2 of ABT#7.
Week 1 of ABT#7
This round was 2CB ELR Pseudo-Commander.
This round, we played a "Pseudo-Commander". The third card in each deck can be cast repeatedly from the command zone.
The Entries
01 Mogg :: "" Beast Within / Pithing Needle / Banefire Needle is a narrow answer, and I try to shy away from those. This round, it felt like a necessary evil against the fast combo decks.
02 Feyd_Ruin :: "" Heartbeat of Spring / Urza's Factory / Debt to the Deathless I had completely missed Heartbeat of Spring. Good find. Unfortunately, the deck was a bit too slow for having virtually no disruption. Factory also sufferred as one of the few token generators that can be shut down by Runed Halo.
03 WhammWhamme :: "" Devil's Play / Mana Flare / Time Walk Time Walk was a great way to accelerate into a turn 3 win or a turn 4 win if you didn't want to give an opponent the benefit of Flare.
04 Reyemile :: "" Kher Keep / Sunstrike Legionnaire / Presence of Gond Though it wasn't actually relevant, I found it interesting that Presence on a token would get around Needle. Kher Keep would have been better as a land that could win by itself.
05 aurorasparrow :: "" Ancient Tomb / Time Elemental / Geth's Verdict Verdict is a solid, if slow, win condition. Time Elemental just didn't provide enough support.
06 bateleur :: "" Auriok Salvagers / Lotus Bloom / Magma Mine This was one of the more difficult combos to disrupt. However, it was also a turn slower than most combos, which made the resilience less valuable. Thrull Parasite might have been better than Magma Mine, to get around Runed Halo.
07 tomsloger :: "" Helix Pinnacle / Runed Halo / Mana Drain Amusingly, Halo can name 'Assembly-Worker' to stop Urza's Factory. I love this deck, because it has so many powerful synergies that can help but that aren't required (as in a combo deck). Pinnacle races better when you start with more life. Halo and Drain both get better when you don't have to worry about protecting a win condition, and Helix gets faster with the mana from Drain.
08 Grolleter :: "" Capsize / Faith's Fetters / Council of the Absolute At four mana, Council is fair, but it's still strong in this format. What the deck really needed was an early play. Pithing Needle over Faith's Fetters would have given you 47 points.
10 Antonia :: "" Chancellor of the Tangle / Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary / Misguided Rage The main problem for this deck is that casting Chancellor or attacking with Rofellos prevents you from casting Rage for a turn. Separately, Stone Rain would be better than Rage, because it can force an opponent to do what they'll generally default to doing anyway. It would have been interesting to see a Rofellos build a la Rofellos / Taiga / Structural Collapse (or Aurelia's Fury).
11 Clairval :: "MichaelBay.dec" Braid of Fire / Braid of Fire / Comet Storm Although this deck technically had disruption, it was a bit slow. Still, you managed to avoid all the disruption in my deck.
12 AtheistGod :: "" Blind Obedience / Wheel of Sun and Moon / Time Walk Choosing not to recur your commander via the command zone was a new route to take. Obedience was an effective win condition.
14 fnord :: "" Gruul Turf / Noble Hierarch / Deus of Calamity The disruption was a bit slow for this round, but Hierarch was a nice choice to force through six damage or win in three swings.
There were 14 players with 91 matches and 182 total games.
14 hands ended in a draw. 7 matches had at least one draw.
That's 8% of all games, averaging 1 games per player.
The following player(s) had the most drawn games, with 4 total draws: Antonia
32 matches were a 3-3 split.
That's 35% of all matches, averaging 2.3 matches per player.
The following player(s) had the most split matches, with 6 total splits: Reyemile
68 matches were a 6-0 sweep.
That's 75% of all matches, averaging 4.9 matches per player.
The following player(s) had the most 6-0 match sweeps, at 10 total sweeps: benbuzz790
There were 38 unique cards submitted, out of 42 total.
4 card(s) were repeated:
Next Round will be '3CB ELR Return to Sender / Stairs'.
Entries are due Monday night at midnight (9:00 pm PST).
3CB ELR Return to Sender / Stairs
Description:
Last round had some explosive decks. This round may be a bit slower.
Deck size:
20
3 cards
Land Rule:
20
Expanded Land Rule.
Special Rules:
Each player gets an emblem with "Whenever you tap an untapped nonland permanent you control, return that permanent to its owner's hand at the beginning of the next end step."
Effects owned by your opponent can't cause cards to leave your hand.
The converted mana costs of cards in an entrant's deck must be three different consecutive numbers.
Blind Magic is an online Magic format played here on the forums. Players play with an extremely limited deck size, such as 3 cards. Players begin with their entire deck (ie: those three cards) in hand and have no library (players don't lose when they fail to draw a card because of this). Due to the extremely limited number of play options given with their small deck size, games are calculated, rather then played, with an absolute determined winner (or a tie). Each player plays a match of two games against each other player who submitted - once going first, and once going second. Wins, losses, and ties for each of those two games are calculated by the moderator and players. The actual fun of the game comes from trying to decide which cards you will be playing.
What is the All Blind Tournament?
The All Blind Tournament is a four-week XCB tournament, which spans all card blind formats and embraces a progressive anti-metagame. For each week of the four-week tournament, a new XCB format is announced for players to enter. Players compete for points (similiar to the PotM points for previous XCB games) each round. At the end of the four-week tournament, the player who has accumulated the most points over the four weeks wins the tournament, and receives a real-world prize.
Basic Rules of All Blind Tournament
Below lies the rules of ABT written in laymen's terms for ease of understanding.
While a comprehensive rule system exists, new players and quick glances are best left for this basic explanation.
Overview
The All Blind Tournament (ABT) is a Magic tournament that consists of four rounds of X Card Blind (XCB), run entirely within this forum. To compete, entrants submit decks containing X cards which are played against each other. Scoring assumes optimal play, without randomness or concealed information.
Deck Construction Rules
1. A deck must contain exactly X cards.
2. A deck may contain any number of copies of any Vintage-legal card, but can't contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
3. A player's deck must not enable that player to win the game before an opponent's second turn.
4. A player's deck must not enable that player to force an opponent to lose any cards in his or her hand before an opponent's second turn.
5. A player's deck must enable that player to win the game.
Deck Submission Rules
6. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator by private message (pm).
Playing the Decks
7. Entrants don't actually play their decks, because game results can be determined theoretically.
8. Each player starts the game with the cards in his or her deck in his or her hand.
9. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
10. A random effect resolves in favor of the opponent of the owner of that effect.
11. Players know all information that would normally be concealed from them.
12. Each player plays one two-game match against each other player, and each player is the starting player once per match.
Points
13. The entrant with the most points in a round is the round winner. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game. However, an entrant earns only 2 points for a split match (each player wins a game).
14. The entrant with the most points in the four rounds comprising the ABT is the tournament winner.
Extra Rules
15. Some optional rules may be used; see Optional Rules.
16. The Basic Rules don't cover every issue. For in-depth rules, see Comprehensive Rules.
Optional Rules
Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
Expanded Land Rule
Any player may play a basic land of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
Alternative Land Rule
If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land card of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
Sanctioned Magic Format
A deck may contain only cards contained in sets legal in the specified format.
Counter Rule
Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
Life Rule
If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win the game as though this rule didn't exist.
Special Format
Other rules are specified.
XCB Comprehensive Rules
Below lies the comprehensive rules system for the ABT.
Rules are written for precision and game clarification. They are not written for ease of reading.
Game Rules
1.1. There are many versions of XCB. Each version has a name, of the form XCB 'Land Rule' 'Sanctioned Magic Format' 'Special Format' '(Bonus)' 'Counter Rule' 'Life Rule'.
1.1a. X is a number.
1.1b. 'Land Rule' can be LR, ELR, ALR, or nothing. LR indicates that the basic land rule is in effect, ELR indicates that the expanded land rule is in effect, and ALR indicates that the alternative land rule is in effect (see Rule 1.7).
1.1c. 'Sanctioned Magic Format' can be the name of a sanctioned Magic constructed format or nothing. The name of a format indicates that only cards contained in sets legal in that format may be submitted. This is an exception to rule 2.3c.
1.1d. 'Special Format' can be the name of at least one special format or nothing. The name of a special format indicates that the special format in effect (see Rule 1.8).
1.1e. 'Bonus' can be (Bonus) or nothing. (Bonus) modifies the preceding special format, indicating that an entrant must not follow the rules of that format, but that entrant will earn a specified number of bonus points if he or she does (see Rule 2.4f).
1.1f. 'Counter Rule' can be C or nothing. C indicates that the counter rule is in effect (see Rule 1.9).
1.1g. 'Life Rule' can be LF, AL, or nothing. LF indicates that the life rule is in effect and AL indicates that the alternative life rule is in effect (see Rule 1.10).
1.2. Decks are not played, but are scored as though they were. The player of a deck is the entrant who submitted that deck.
1.3. Except for the changes described in these rules, games follow the rules for a normal game of Magic.
1.3a. Ignore any part of an instruction that isn't covered by these rules or the rules of Magic.
1.4. An entrant's deck contains exactly X cards (see Rule 1.1).
1.4a. A player's opening hand contains the cards in his or her deck.
1.4b. Players don't draw hands or mulligan.
1.4c. Players don't have sideboards.
1.5. Players' libraries begin the game empty.
1.5a. A player doesn't lose the game as a result of being unable to draw a card.
1.6. A cost or effect that would produce a random result produces the result that least benefits the player who paid the cost or the owner of the source of the effect instead.
1.7. Some versions of XCB use a land rule.
1.7a. This is the basic land rule (LR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land.
1.7b. This is the expanded land rule (ELR). Any player may play a basic land or basic snow land of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game any time he or she could normally play a land. Any player may play an additional land on each of his or her turns from his or her hand.
1.7c. This is the alternative land rule (ALR). If a player would draw a card from an empty library, that player puts a basic land or basic snow land card of the subtype of his or her choice from outside the game into his or her hand instead. The starting player doesn't skip the draw step of his or her first turn.
1.8. Some versions of XCB use a special format. A special format is an extra set of rules. These rules overwrite any other applicable rules. A non-comprehensive list of special formats is maintained here.
1.8a. Some special formats cause players to draw hands. The drawn cards become part of that player's opening hand.
1.8b. Some special formats generate continuous effects. Continuous effects generated by special formats are applied in the order those formats are listed in the XCB version name, before any other effects that could be applied in a layer.
1.8c. Some special formats require an entrant to make some number of decisions in addition to or instead of submitting a deck. An entrant's submission is that entrant's deck and any decisions that entrant makes. An entrant's submission must not violate rule 2.3 if all instances of the word 'deck' in that rule are replaced with 'submission'.
1.8d. Some special formats refer to decks that obtain or could obtain results. Saying that a deck obtains or could obtain a result means that the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result in a game or match against another player (see Rule 1.11). If a deck obtains or could obtain a result against another deck, then the player of that deck obtains or could obtain that result against the player of the other deck.
1.9. Some versions of XCB use the counter rule.
1.9a. This is the counter rule (C). Until each player has completed two turns, each player ignores any part of an effect of a source an opponent owns that would counter a spell that player controls.
1.10. Some versions of XCB use a life rule.
1.10a. This is the life rule (LF). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game. Determine whether a deck enables the player of that deck to win a match as though this rule didn't exist (see Rule 2.3b).
1.10b. This is the alternative life rule (AL). If neither player would win otherwise, then the player who maintains the higher life total wins the game.
1.11. Each player plays one match against each other player.
1.11a. Each match has two games.
1.11b. Each player is the starting player for one game in each match.
1.11c. Games are played with perfect information; players know the identities of face-down cards and cards in hidden zones, and players know which decisions have been made by other players.
1.11d. Games are played optimally. The best outcome for a player is to win the game and the worst outcome is to lose the game.
1.11e. If a game would continue indefinitely, then the game is a draw.
Tournament Rules
2.1. Entrants compete in a competition.
2.1a. The shortest type of competition is a round. Typically, each round lasts one week.
2.1b. The ABT is a competition consisting of four rounds.
2.2. An entrant submits his or her deck to the ABT moderator.
2.2a. An entrant submits his or her deck by private message (pm).
2.2b. An entrant may submit multiple decks, but only the most recently submitted deck is counted.
2.2c. An illegal deck is not counted. At the moderator’s discretion, an illegal deck may be replaced by a similar deck – in which any cards causing that deck to be illegal have been removed or replaced.
2.2d. The moderator determines the result of each match. Entrants may challenge results, but not after the results of the first round of a new ABT has been posted, except at the moderator's discretion.
2.2e. An entrant may name his or her deck. If an entrant doesn't, then the moderator may name it.
2.3. Decks are subject to some restrictions.
2.3a. An entrant may not submit a deck that could enable the player of that deck to win the game or force any cards in an opponent's hand to change zones before an opponent's second turn. A card is forced to change zones if the owner of that card could make no sequence of decisions that would not result in either that card changing zones or that player losing the game before his or her second turn. Ignore this rule in the following cases:
i. All cards in an opponent's hand that would be forced to change zones would not be cast by that opponent and would enter the battlefield under that opponent's control. For example, a 4CB deck with two copies of Black Lotus could contain Stronghold Gambit but could not contain Wild Evocation.
ii. All cards in an opponent's hand that weren't there as a result of a cost or effect that opponent controlled that would be forced to change zones during the resolution of a spell or ability would be in that opponent's hand after that spell or ability resolved. For example, a 3CB deck could contain Timetwister and Black Lotus but an 8CB deck could not.
iii. Cards in an opponent's hand would be forced to change zones only if cards in that opponent's hand that started outside the game would cause that opponent's maximum hand size at the start of the game to be exceeded. For example, a 3CB LR deck could contain two copies of Ancestral Recall.
iv. The rule would be violated only in a game that existed as a result of an effect that resolved not before the specified turn or until each player had completed the specified number of turns that restarted the game or created a subgame. For example, a 2CB LR deck could contain Karn Liberated.
2.3b. An entrant may not submit a deck that wouldn't enable the player of that deck to win a match (see Rule 2.4d) against the player of at least one deck satisfying all rules.
2.3c. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card legal in Vintage (Type 1). Except as modified by a special format, all cards used in a game must be legal in Vintage.
2.3d. A deck may contain any number of copies of any card that will become legal in Vintage upon release of a set that's been revealed fully and officially since the start of the round.
2.3e. A deck may not contain any cards on the ABT Banned List.
2.4. Points determine round standings.
2.4a. Entrants are ranked – first to last – in order of decreasing number of points.
2.4b. For each match, an entrant earns 3 points per game win and 1 point per drawn game.
2.4c. The combined result of both games in a match is called a match result. Possible match results are: 6 – two wins, 4 – a win and a draw, 3 or 2 or S – a win and a loss, 2 – two draws, 1 – a draw and a loss, and 0 – two losses.
2.4d. Some match results are also denoted by names: two wins – match win, a win and a loss – split match, two draws – draw, and two losses – match loss. An entrant wins the match if he or she wins both games, splits the match if he or she wins a game and loses a game, draws a match if he or she draws both games, and loses the match if he or she loses both games.
2.4e. An entrant earns only 2 points for a split match. This is an exception to rule 2.4b.
2.4f. An entrant may earn a number of bonus points defined by a special format. An entrant earns these points in addition to any other points.
2.4g. A table of match results is posted at the end of each round. Its rows represent entrants and its columns represent those entrants' opponents. An entrant's total number of points is listed at the end of his or her row.
2.5. The entrant with the most tournament points over the course of the ABT is the tournament winner.
2.5a. Each round, an entrant receives tournament points equal to his or her average match result for that round multiplied by 100, rounded to the nearest integer or some number of decimal places chosen at the moderator's discretion. For example, an entrant scoring 6-6-6-6-X-0-0-0 in a round with 8 entrants receives 340 tournament points ((6 + 6 + 6 + 6) / (8 - 1) x 100).
2.5b. If two or more entrants would win the ABT, then each of those entrants competes in additional rounds specified by the moderator, until only one entrant has the most tournament points. Each additional round contains only the entrants who have the most tournament points. The moderator may specify a limit to the number of additional rounds.
3. Prize Rules
3.1. A prize shall be given to the tournament winner.
3.1a. The winner of the tournament shall be given the prize described within the tournament, or a suitable replacement upon the tournament's end.
3.1b. If the winner of the tournament has won two or more tournaments, then the highest ranked entrant who hasn't won two or more tournaments shall be given the prize instead.
3.1c. If the winner was a moderator for two or more rounds of the tournament, then the highest ranked entrant who wasn't the moderator for two or more rounds of that tournament shall be given the prize instead. This is to ensure fair play.
3.1d. An entrant may decline the prize. If he or she does, then that entrant may designate another entrant to receive the prize.
3.1e. Entrants under the age of 18 are ineligible for prizes, due to federal laws regarding the sharing of personal information of minors.
3.1f. In the event that a prize can't be given to an entrant, the moderator will do his best to find another suitable way to reward that entrant.
3.1g. No prize is 100% guaranteed, but is assumed upon a good faith basis. Let's face it, with international customs, weird laws, etc, we can't guarantee anything. We'll do our best.
3.2. As a prized tournament, special scoring rules and practices are in place.
3.2a. Entrants are responsible for their own scoring. Assistance will be given, especially to new entrants, but it is ultimately up to each entrant to ensure his or her scoring is completed and accurate.
3.2b. Incomplete scores are considered losses, even to both players in a match if necessary. This is to make sure a winner is determined at the end of a tournament.
3.2c. The moderator always has the final word regarding scores and rules. Entrants may question any scoring the moderator does, until the moderator says that a match's scoring is final.
3.2d. The moderator may, at his or her discretion, determine a match is too difficult to calculate and give it a tie score, or his or her best guess. Again, this is final.
3.2e. Once a winner has been announced as final, that entrant shall receive the prize, even if errors in scoring or points are shown later.
Permanently Banned Cards
The following cards are permanently banned in the All Blind Tournament.
Each round will have an additional banned list that extends beyond, but always includes, these cards.
Previous standings will always be posted below the opening post of each week's thread.
Standings will be updated after the current week has been completed and score checking has finished.
I'm happy with how the Pseudo-Commander format turned out. There was a lot of innovation, and many archetypes were represented. Here are a few more strategies that I thought might show up but didn't:
I'm excited about the new format. It started out as just the bounce portion (and bouncing lands as well), but it wasn't that interesting, and I didn't want a second week with an incredibly long banned list. David and Goliath was one of my all-time favorite formats, and I tried to create a knock-off, but it wasn't very good. It was a satisfying moment when I realized that the ban list problem could be solved by creating a simpler knock-off of David and Goliath and combining the two.
I've spent a while thinking about it, and I still feel like I have no idea what to play. I did, but as a temporary moderator, I'm more inclined to ban degenerate decks than play them (Amulet of Vigor / Jinxed Choker / Time Vault). I really tried to stick to the banned list I gave Feyd_Ruin before he left, but Time Vault and - to a lesser extent - Time Walk (Anurid Scavenger / Banefire / Time Walk) really had to go.
Submit your decks to me this week.
I'll post an anticheat code once I have my deck. Feyd_Ruin will be back next week.
Should be: 6-0. I'm pretty sure that even with Beast Within staying open the entire game to kill my Mana Flare, I out-goldfish him - I can win off Devil's Play and Time Walk ALONE on turn 12 (using Time Walk as a land-drop accelerant, I get to 21 mana on turn 11, play Devil's Play for 20, then on turn 12 Time Walk again and flash it back for 20).
Since this mean Mogg can't ever tap out for Banefire, but has to leave 3 mana untapped right up to the end (and I think I can shorten the clock by a turn or two by dropping mana flare to squeeze out some extra acceleration and thus getting a beast to shorten the clock)...
Should be: 6-0. I'm pretty sure that even with Beast Within staying open the entire game to kill my Mana Flare, I out-goldfish him - I can win off Devil's Play and Time Walk ALONE on turn 12 (using Time Walk as a land-drop accelerant, I get to 21 mana on turn 11, play Devil's Play for 20, then on turn 12 Time Walk again and flash it back for 20).
Since this mean Mogg can't ever tap out for Banefire, but has to leave 3 mana untapped right up to the end (and I think I can shorten the clock by a turn or two by dropping mana flare to squeeze out some extra acceleration and thus getting a beast to shorten the clock)...
So yeah, pretty sure that works out in my favour.
Players have 40 life. Devil's Play needs to deal 40 damage, but Banefire only needs to deal 21 - because it's a commander - so I outrace you.
Ugh. Threw away points by picking the wrong land. Can't believe I missed Vhitu Ghazi
Edit: What does "whenever you tap..." mean, for Return to Sender? Does that mean, whenever it becomes tapped? Or does that mean, whenever you tap it as a cost?
Ugh. Threw away points by picking the wrong land. Can't believe I missed Vhitu Ghazi
Edit: What does "whenever you tap..." mean, for Return to Sender? Does that mean, whenever it becomes tapped? Or does that mean, whenever you tap it as a cost?
A permanent is returned if a cost or effect instructs the person paying that cost or the controller of the effect to tap a permanent that player controls.
Here are some scenarios and their results:
- You activate Puppeteer to tap an opponent's Craw Wurm. Puppeteer is returned. Craw Wurm isn't returned.
- You tap Noble Hierarch to add mana to your mana pool. Noble Hierarch is returned.
- You're under another player's control because of Mindslaver and you tap Noble Hierarch to add mana to your mana pool. Noble Hierarch is returned.
- You tap Noble Hierarch to attack with it. Noble Hierarch is returned.
- You cast Twiddle targetting an opponent's land. That opponent casts Misdirection and changes Twiddle's target to Noble Hierarch. Noble Hierarch is returned.
- You cast Twiddle targetting an opponent's land. That opponent casts Commandeer and targets Noble Hierarch with Twiddle. Noble Hierarch isn't returned.
- You control Ogre Recluse. An opponent casts a spell. Ogre Recluse is returned.
- You control Noble Hierarch. An opponent controls Craw Wurm and Asceticism. Craw Wurm attacks and Noble Hierarch blocks it. That opponent activates Asceticism to regenerate Noble Hierarch. Noble Hierarch isn't returned.
- An opponent casts Lightning Bolt targetting an Albino Troll that you control. You regenerate it. Albino Troll is returned.
On a side note, do cards like Llanowar Elves take the singular or the plural? I revised my examples to ignore the issue, but the first three one-drop mana generators I thought of all had that problem (Birds of Paradise, Elves of Deep Shadow).
Players have 40 life. Devil's Play needs to deal 40 damage, but Banefire only needs to deal 21 - because it's a commander - so I outrace you.
My post took that into account - if I only had to do 20, I'd win on turn 7 and it wouldn't even be close to a race. Notice that my math was for Devil's Play for 20 twice.
Seriously, Time Walk - I have to do twice as much damage, but I take two turns to your one and Devil's Play does the same "play this more than once" trick as Banefire-as-commander.
The first turn you can do damage without losing is turn 5, on which you can do one, then one again on turn 7, which isn't going to cut it. So 2 damage on turn 6 and 2 more on turn 8 - also not going to cut. How about 3 damage on turns 7, 9, 11? Not going to cut it. 4 damage on turns 8, 10 and 7 on 12? Still not lethal. 5 damage on turn 9 and 5 on 11 and 6 on 12? Still not enough.
Actually work the entire thing out - I can't find a line of play where you do enough damage to win before turn 12, given the constraint of having to leave Beast Within open.
A permanent is returned if a cost or effect instructs the person paying that cost or the controller of the effect to tap a permanent that player controls. ...
Is this a trigger? Does it go on the stack? Can it be Stifled?
My post took that into account - if I only had to do 20, I'd win on turn 7 and it wouldn't even be close to a race. Notice that my math was for Devil's Play for 20 twice.
Seriously, Time Walk - I have to do twice as much damage, but I take two turns to your one and Devil's Play does the same "play this more than once" trick as Banefire-as-commander.
The first turn you can do damage without losing is turn 5, on which you can do one, then one again on turn 7, which isn't going to cut it. So 2 damage on turn 6 and 2 more on turn 8 - also not going to cut. How about 3 damage on turns 7, 9, 11? Not going to cut it. 4 damage on turns 8, 10 and 7 on 12? Still not lethal. 5 damage on turn 9 and 5 on 11 and 6 on 12? Still not enough.
Actually work the entire thing out - I can't find a line of play where you do enough damage to win before turn 12, given the constraint of having to leave Beast Within open.
Sorry, my bad. I responded shortly after getting up and skimmed more than I should have. Fixed.
Ignore any part of an effect that would cause a card in the hand of an opponent of the owner of the source of the effect to change zones.
I do not understand this sentence.
Decks for last round I considered: (third card is commander)
karakas, leyline of singularity, thrun the last troll
ancient tomb, emrakul the aeons torn, journey of discovery
painter’s servant, elixir of immortality, pyroblast
inkmoth nexus, sol ring, voidstone gargoyle
dark ritual, hatred, invisible stalker
Why not? An effect has a controller, so there's no ambiguity and therefore its meaning is as intended.
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(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Why not? An effect has a controller, so there's no ambiguity and therefore its meaning is as intended.
It would probably be understood as intended, but it still doesn't make sense to me to refer to an effect as having an opponent. In a fight, it's not the weapons that have opponents, but the people using them.
Also, here's my deck code for this round: The plump exultant crook invented ovational lane chart.
This thread contains the results for week 1 of All Blind Tournament #7 and is the start of week 2 of ABT#7.
Week 1 of ABT#7 Next Round : Week 2 of ABT#7 Information
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
I'm happy with how the Pseudo-Commander format turned out. There was a lot of innovation, and many archetypes were represented. Here are a few more strategies that I thought might show up but didn't:
- Card / Card / Lightning Bolt; My biggest concern, when I finalized the format, was an overabundance of bolts. I'm curious how much of a factor repeatable burn played in entrants' choices.
- Disruption / Disruption / Immolating Souleater; Souleater isn't great, but the prospect of a single-card turn 3 win really tempted me.
- Chalice of the Void / Removal / Win Condition
- Inkmoth Nexus / Seething Song / Possibility Storm
- Karakas / Leyline of Singularity / Win Condition
- Ancient Tomb / Emrakul, the Aeons Torn / Shifty Doppelganger; Doppelganger was one of the cards that I should have banned.
- Emrakul, the Aeons Torn / Shelldock Isle / Sonic Seizure; Isle was the other card. Judging by the decks, it doesn't seem to have factored into submissions; it would have 6-0'd every deck but mine.
I'm excited about the new format. It started out as just the bounce portion (and bouncing lands as well), but it wasn't that interesting, and I didn't want a second week with an incredibly long banned list. David and Goliath was one of my all-time favorite formats, and I tried to create a knock-off, but it wasn't very good. It was a satisfying moment when I realized that the ban list problem could be solved by creating a simpler knock-off of David and Goliath and combining the two.
I've spent a while thinking about it, and I still feel like I have no idea what to play. I did, but as a temporary moderator, I'm more inclined to ban degenerate decks than play them (Amulet of Vigor / Jinxed Choker / Time Vault). I really tried to stick to the banned list I gave Feyd_Ruin before he left, but Time Vault and - to a lesser extent - Time Walk (Anurid Scavenger / Banefire / Time Walk) really had to go.
Submit your decks to me this week.
I'll post an anticheat code once I have my deck. Feyd_Ruin will be back next week.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
3 | 0 6 X 3 6 6 0 4 3 4 6 0 0 6 | 42 | 323
Correction:
01. vs. Mogg (listed as 0-6; should be 6-0)
Should be: 6-0. I'm pretty sure that even with Beast Within staying open the entire game to kill my Mana Flare, I out-goldfish him - I can win off Devil's Play and Time Walk ALONE on turn 12 (using Time Walk as a land-drop accelerant, I get to 21 mana on turn 11, play Devil's Play for 20, then on turn 12 Time Walk again and flash it back for 20).
Since this mean Mogg can't ever tap out for Banefire, but has to leave 3 mana untapped right up to the end (and I think I can shorten the clock by a turn or two by dropping mana flare to squeeze out some extra acceleration and thus getting a beast to shorten the clock)...
So yeah, pretty sure that works out in my favour.
07 tomsloger :: ""
Helix Pinnacle / Runed Halo / Mana Drain
VS
09 VikingMetal4L :: ""
Sunstrike Legionnaire / Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree / Presence of Gond
listed 0-6, suggested 3-3
when i go first, i can counter presence of gond. and then counter it again. and then counter it again. and still get counters on pinnacle on odd numbered turns.
Players have 40 life. Devil's Play needs to deal 40 damage, but Banefire only needs to deal 21 - because it's a commander - so I outrace you.
Sure, but you still lose to Saprolings.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Edit: What does "whenever you tap..." mean, for Return to Sender? Does that mean, whenever it becomes tapped? Or does that mean, whenever you tap it as a cost?
A permanent is returned if a cost or effect instructs the person paying that cost or the controller of the effect to tap a permanent that player controls.
Here are some scenarios and their results:
- You activate Puppeteer to tap an opponent's Craw Wurm. Puppeteer is returned. Craw Wurm isn't returned.
- You tap Noble Hierarch to add mana to your mana pool. Noble Hierarch is returned.
- You're under another player's control because of Mindslaver and you tap Noble Hierarch to add mana to your mana pool. Noble Hierarch is returned.
- You tap Noble Hierarch to attack with it. Noble Hierarch is returned.
- You cast Twiddle targetting an opponent's land. That opponent casts Misdirection and changes Twiddle's target to Noble Hierarch. Noble Hierarch is returned.
- You cast Twiddle targetting an opponent's land. That opponent casts Commandeer and targets Noble Hierarch with Twiddle. Noble Hierarch isn't returned.
- You control Ogre Recluse. An opponent casts a spell. Ogre Recluse is returned.
- You control Noble Hierarch. An opponent controls Craw Wurm and Asceticism. Craw Wurm attacks and Noble Hierarch blocks it. That opponent activates Asceticism to regenerate Noble Hierarch. Noble Hierarch isn't returned.
- An opponent casts Lightning Bolt targetting an Albino Troll that you control. You regenerate it. Albino Troll is returned.
On a side note, do cards like Llanowar Elves take the singular or the plural? I revised my examples to ignore the issue, but the first three one-drop mana generators I thought of all had that problem (Birds of Paradise, Elves of Deep Shadow).
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
My post took that into account - if I only had to do 20, I'd win on turn 7 and it wouldn't even be close to a race. Notice that my math was for Devil's Play for 20 twice.
Seriously, Time Walk - I have to do twice as much damage, but I take two turns to your one and Devil's Play does the same "play this more than once" trick as Banefire-as-commander.
The first turn you can do damage without losing is turn 5, on which you can do one, then one again on turn 7, which isn't going to cut it. So 2 damage on turn 6 and 2 more on turn 8 - also not going to cut. How about 3 damage on turns 7, 9, 11? Not going to cut it. 4 damage on turns 8, 10 and 7 on 12? Still not lethal. 5 damage on turn 9 and 5 on 11 and 6 on 12? Still not enough.
Actually work the entire thing out - I can't find a line of play where you do enough damage to win before turn 12, given the constraint of having to leave Beast Within open.
Is this a trigger? Does it go on the stack? Can it be Stifled?
Sorry, my bad. I responded shortly after getting up and skimmed more than I should have. Fixed.
It is a trigger. It goes on the stack and can be countered. I didn't mean to make the effect counterable, but I'll leave it as is.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
I do not understand this sentence.
Decks for last round I considered: (third card is commander)
karakas, leyline of singularity, thrun the last troll
ancient tomb, emrakul the aeons torn, journey of discovery
painter’s servant, elixir of immortality, pyroblast
inkmoth nexus, sol ring, voidstone gargoyle
dark ritual, hatred, invisible stalker
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
- Suppose I play Wheel of Fortune. I'll discard my hand. You won't.
- Mesmeric Fiend reveals an opponent's hand but doesn't exile a card.
Does that help or is it still unclear?
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
differ from
? Does it have to do with Mindslaver?
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
They're effectively the same, but I think the second wording is technically nonfunctional, because an effect doesn't have an opponent.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
*cough* I'm deck number 3, I think you gave the win to deck number 4 by mistake.
As for it being counterable - meh, it's pretty hard to figure out a way to do anything tricky with that, no?
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
That's correct.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
"Effects owned by your opponent can't cause cards to leave your hand."
Why not? An effect has a controller, so there's no ambiguity and therefore its meaning is as intended.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
That seems reasonable.
It would probably be understood as intended, but it still doesn't make sense to me to refer to an effect as having an opponent. In a fight, it's not the weapons that have opponents, but the people using them.
Also, here's my deck code for this round: The plump exultant crook invented ovational lane chart.
BWTeysa, Orzhov Scion
GWRhys the Redeemed
GUKruphix, God of Horizons
GRXenagos, God of Revels
GThrun, the Last Troll
GStompy
Eureka. Show and Tell.
"If an effect owned by an opponent would cause a card to leave your hand, you may have it remain in your hand instead."
Still way more clear than the previous.